I’m not going to say I saw this coming, I didn’t see defeat, but when I wrote a couple of days ago that you and I have seen a lot more games like Celtic’s away to Lincoln Red Imps than Brendan Rodgers, and about European football in July, I knew this one was never going to play out in a triumphant manner.
On the first day he was appointed I asked one of you to compile Brendan an Efe highlights video – I assume we were all busy. God love Efe, he’s a fine man by all accounts, but he’s three years into a slump which is not going to end at Celtic. Brendan must now be aware. It’s no longer Efe’s fault if he costs us again.
I also made the point previewing this game that we can’t expect a squad comprising only one addition to last season’s group to perform remarkably different in qualification than a year ago. In this sense, Celtic performed as expected, this one had all the hallmarks of our recent Icelandic ventures.
The manager may not be embarrassed at the result (I suspect he might sound different privately) but many supporters are. Gibraltar has a population similar to Bellshill, but without the football heritage and support mechanism. Would defeat to Bellshill Athletic be embarrassing? You bet. Yesterday’s result was too.
We are woefully slow in build-up and have only one player in the squad who can create the 7 or 8 chances per game needed to get a result, and he’s 33 next month and currently injured.
We remain strong favourites to qualify for the next round but there is an enormous amount of work to be done in the next month. This is not a Champions League squad.
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I deliberately stayed away last night as the usual suspects, heated driveways, and hunterlopers were in their glee. Buck, Roy and Ted and we don’t know who you are FFS, gives a bit of credit for our ben affleck education.
As for our worst result ever, Artmedia when WGS instead of shutting shop chased a goal, Xamax where Liam Brady’s inexperience showed, and yet we almost recovered from both pulling back to within a goal against the Slovaks and an early Charlie Nick missed penalty against the latter being the difference, if that had went in, who knows.
And then there was Thistle 1-4 which the BBC previewed as “In Scotland, it’s League Cup final day at Hampden Park, where Celtic meet Partick Thistle, who have no chance”, only time I’ve ever left a game early, as Thistle seemed to score with every attack, I was terrified our 7-1 record would be blown. I was in Queen Street station when Kenny scored our only goal and as was recorded at the time we missed enough chances to win the match.
After the game both Denis Connaghan and Dixie were signed with the latter scoring in a 5-1 rout at Firhill 5 weeks later.
However and having seen a lot of urine results through my 60+ years one of the worst occurred on September 15, 1971, a mere 5+weeks before the LC Final when a team of part timers from Copenhagen, who don’t exist anymore, beat a Celtic side including 7 Lions and 3 of the best of the Quality Street Gang 2-1 in the 1st round of the EC.
Yes we did recover in the 2nd leg winning 3-0 at Parkheid, but not before they cracked one off the bar, in what would prove to be big Yogi’s last game for us where he unusually missed a penalty.
I don’t recall LB, WGS or the Big Mhan’s name being tarnished after these results and in the case of the latter 2 we became stronger as the season went on winning a League and League Cup double and League and Scottish Cup double respectively.
Oh and BTW Jock contrived to lose 5 games and tied one in his first 12 as manager including Celtic 2 Hibs 4, Falkirk 6 Celtic 2 Dunfermline 5 Celtic 1, thankfully “Billy’s Bumper” saved the day and the season for us. We also managed to lose 2 out of the 1st 3 games the following season and yet 20,000+ turned out for a reserve game to watch Brazilian trialists the following month.
That’s why they called us the faithful, we believed in Big Jock and his vision for us. Now it’s time for the Brendan (that’s his real name ya hun wallopers) version.
Maybe the reason that Scott Allan hasnt played much, is that he isnt very good.
If you are a good player….you force your way into the team, by being brilliant in training.
I have not seen anything by Scott Allan to make me think he can do a job.
I doubt he will do anything….like i said on the day he was signed.
Like Ciftci.
These are not the kind of players we need imo.
HH
FAN-A-TIC
I’m not judging him mate, he’s got potential. I don’t know if you saw the article on Celticnewsnow from Indycelts where they’re saying his tactical nous is what the team is missing????
He looks like he could be a player but as yet hasn’t nailed down a place got to be a reason for that???
You point to Bitton as our central mid problem here’s my question, how many players have been tried in centre mid alongside Scott Brown and how many succeeded?? Put SA in beside Brown and he’ll suffer the same fate..
I think the could be a player but to stick him up as our messiah I’m not buying that if he was he would be in the team and we as Hoops have a tendency especially on here to big up the players on the bench.
Lustig at centre half is another baffler for me, has anyone seen him at centre half and does no one wonder with all the injuries we’ve had over the years that he has been there no manager played him at centre half!
HH
olTim.
10 years now
Very inconsiderate of John Hartson not to share his professional opinion with BR about Efe Ambrose before the big match.
IF the rumours are true about a bid in for Bitton, and if BR is happy to get rid, he is in a no win position, he has to play him, to drop him would for sure hinder any decent bid, the same for a few others no doubt.
He has a choice, save his reputation or not, there is no in between imo, he has to sort this PDQ.
Play the weans, been saying it for long enough, they play without fear, had we done this for the past couple of years the weans would no longer be weans and I’m sure they would be worth much more than the present bunch of chancers we have masquerading as Celtic players.
Not surprised by last night. The shambolic transfer policy of recent years strikes again. Still not got enough strikers.
Oldtim
Feliz Cumpleanos mi amigo, I hope you have many more.
HH
Tommy Burns era is over rated. We were absolutely crap when we played in Europe and we won almost hee haw.
Brendan, like any other person in a new job, will need time.
Corkcelt on 13TH JULY 2016 3:29 PM
Off the button.
MWD
Hail Hail CQNers
Much gnashing of teeth here for the last 18 hours or so. We will get over this.
The last season in England, the European Championship and our own experience in recent years has surely taught us that possession of the ball means nothing against the Final Score.
We appear to be obsessed by denying the opposition possession of the ball. That may well be prudent if they happen to be Barcelona, Man Utd or Real Madrid.
My belief is that we should have been pumping long balls from all positions on the pitch last night into their penalty area and allow the Imps to show us their limitations in defence. All the tippy tappy ticcy taccy going square and back just allowed them to set up soak up our poor penetration through the midfield.
It’s not “rocket science” as someone once said. Just give the opposition the opportunity to show why they were quoted at some outrageous prices in the bookies.
When we lost 5-0 to Artmedia I was convinced we would turn that around and availed myself of 66/1 in a bookies near Heraghty’s in Pollokshaws that it would be 7-1. We came very close that night to overturning a 5-goal deficit in Europe for the first time.
There is no doubt in my mind that we will progress to the next stage but people on here are being disrespectful to Lincoln Red Imps because they play in Gibraltar. I’m sure I read yesterday that they have been champions 14 years in a row. Poor standard no doubt but you get used to winning.
Anyway Keep the Faith boys. Trust in Celtic and Brendan.
Hail Hail
Captain Beefheart
And the backing and support of his boss in financial terms to get rid of the useless nomads in the team.
Time alone will not heal the downsized product we saw last night.
If this team were Top Trumps cards they’d be a Lada. Square, bulky and boring.
Even the hilman Imp would beat that.
No wait!
MWD
Cyernean
And as someone else said ” it’s no rocket surgery ”
Eithers CSC
\brendan will have learned more about what is required to b eCeltic boss in the last 24 hours than from half a dozen mediocre games and results
SydneyTim.
I can’t quite put my finger on it but there is this manic desire I get every time you post I just want to slit my wrists.
I know it is not your fault, you are just reacting to our demise; our glorious demise.
But can’t you die a Celtic death in silence. Celtic can.
…on the other hand last nights fiasco equalled Wimbledon Winner Andy Murray’s weekend achievement of putting a smile on the face of an entire nation – excluding Celtic supporters of course…
CORKCELT on 13TH JULY 2016 3:29 PM
Football does throw up freak results. We were shite last night but we still had 75% possession, had a good goal chalked off and hit the woodwork twice. The pitch was pure shite and it is relevant to comment on it. The Imps know every strand of fibre, they play every single game there, they expect the unexpected bounce.
Lets suspend judgement till the tie is settled, if we lose the tie let all the fire & brimstone pour down.
So far we have suffered no material loss, we are still in every competition and have not dropped a League point.
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The issue is not with the tie i’m sure we will qualify, but going forward the issue is with individual players showing no fight or desire or just not good enough as past performances showed. If all the happy clappers are still making excuses on the state of pitch etc. then heaven help us.
enough
TONTINE TIM
Ah – Copenhagen B1903..
They were amateurs.My addled ole bonce thinks Jock Stein described that loss as being a contender for the worst ever Award.
Starry Plough
Bitton played a lot without Brown when he was out injured last season with the same result.
I have made my feelings clear on Bitton for the longest time.
On saturday every time he showed for the ball he was facing our goal.He then either passed it straight back from where it came or knocked it to full back.
If he had awareness there were times he could have turned upfield and advanced play but he never gave it a thought.
I dont understand why we cants see playing him is like removing the forward gears from the engine and then wondering why the car doesn’t go forward?
I think Brown shows energy but not sure big he fits in the system we try to play.
Would take any combination of Ajer.Henderson .Christie or Allan over Brown and Bitton.
I honestly think with the personnel on hand just now Ajer should have central defensive role.
its no rocket salad
Starry Plough
Should also add i would rather young O’ Connell had played in Efe’s position last night.
He always looks strong and assured and played well in the friendlies.
a glesgae pal has a business doing “analytics”.
he was at an event and one of the speakers was a NASA high heid yin.
who delivered a brilliant pitch which ended with
“well it is exactly rocket science”
we are all forgetting the arthurlie result.
Well there’s always next year
FAN-A-TIC
I think the manager went with the senior pros with experience and will have seen exactly how that worked for him. BR has previous for dropping senior players so let’s hope he continues in that vein.
There is the rub for him last night tho’ an 18 year old with four games in the Hoops or NB, I’m not surprised he went for NB.
Ajer is a project for the role and I can’t see him being handed it straight off the bat in Europe but would expect him to play in the league. Liam Henderson for me has a make or break season, I’ve never been 100% convinced by him so far I prefer CMcG who is always looking to make things happen.
Yesterdays result made the interesting times even more feckin’ interesting:(( Now with new improved pressure for all at Paradise..
Let’s be having ye:)
I wouldn’t of minded Daniel o Donnell playing in Efes position last night.
I posted along with others , that the play slows down when it gets to brown and biton . This team needs midfielders who will take the midfield by the scruff of the neck . And Who will impose their authority on the midfield . I can’t for all our plethora of midfielders see one who can do that . Our defence as was seen last night is very insecure too . A no nonsense centre half is required there as well . Mikel although a good player for us , has probably had one injury too many , mulgrew, effe , boyata can all go for me . Brown , biton , Forrest thanks but no thanks . Same GMS , . Second and final chance to Allan , Armstrong , rogic , Christie . Which is the clear out required IMHO . Won’t happen unfortunately , but that’s what I would do . Also we will soon know if Brendan is in sole control of the team . If he has money to spend . Or if he is the patsy for the suits many on here think he is .
Hail Hail again boys
Tontine Tim
Just returned to say thank you for another worthy perspective. Proof if it was needed that we know how to treat adversity.
Faithful through and through.
Thank you TT
Hail Hail
Let’s face it there are just some Celtic fans ,who no matter how bad things get ,live in denial.
TT
fan-a-tic on 13th July 2016 4:33 pm
Sadly it appears there remains a pecking order, which lessens the importance of little issues, like current form or likelihood to cause a major f*&% up, when picking the team.
I would love to see Henderson more and McGregor can also get at most teams and score with both feet. In an ideal world he is an impact player but we know what he does and is effective at what he does. Compare and contrast with…well where do you start?
Concerned about the conclusions BR has come to following assessment of the squad. I would be fairly hopeful that we will be fine though. I think he is here because he knows he will be backed in the market.
HH
Like most I think Efe’s time is up – much as I like the guy.
However, is it his fault that we still don’t have two decent & reliable central defenders on our books?
Thank God that Erik is there and injury free for the most part.
What about Jozo – who seems to be made of glass !?!
Unfortunately Mickael L was injured in the EUROS and Charlie is out of favour or in contract talks.
Efe is not a central defender – we and our dugs know that, Brendan is just catching up….
Charlie would have been ideal last night in that position.
A lot to be said for experienced utility players – even in an over-bloated squad…
Gardez la Foi
Neil Lennon in denial…
Neil Lennon says the “furore” surrounding Celtic’s 1-0 loss to Lincoln Red Imps has been over the top, insisting the Scottish champions will still go through.
The Scottish champions went down in Brendan Rodgers’ first match in charge with many believing the result to be the worst in the club’s European history.
Red Imps captain Roy Chipolina described the victory as the biggest shock the game on this continent has seen but Lennon says the reaction has been too much.
Hibernian boss Lennon, who guided Celtic to the last 16 of Europe’s top club competition, was asked for his thoughts on the score, saying: “Well I think the furore over it is way over the top.
“These results can happen, it is so early. It’s only Brendan’s first game in charge; he’s still getting to know the players.
I didn’t see the game but the pitch was a shocker, conditions were difficult and a 1-0 deficit, Celtic will turn that around. I expect them to go through and reach the next round.”
Hey guys
I was at the imps game last week and last night. The imps actually played better against Tallin. They created lots of chances by passing or lobbing the ball forward through the middle of a terrified defence. This will me important for us next week.
Talking to some of there fans before the game last night I told them their team are far superior to airdrie or a Clyde. I was proved right. Although I did think we we win but felt it would be tight.
I think it will be 3, 4 or 5 next week. If we played 2 or 3 guys up against their defence they would have crapped it last night. We must do this at paradise.
Biggest problems last night was 2 defensive midfielders playing square balls all the time. McGregor Roberts Allen and Armstrong are better options for trying to find chinks in the armour of a pack defence. Brown and Biton played to the Imp’s strengths. Poor Brendon poor!
Hail hail. Btw… Maiden post
MWD
My most enjoyable time watching Celtic was the MON era.
I took very little satisfaction out of the Tommy Burns era.
Tommy was my favourite player of the 80’s.
But I remember ,losing to Partick at Hampden ,as much as boring our way to a cup final win against Airdrie.
Tommy is a great Celtic , a great Celtic man ,but he was not a great Celtic manager.
And I repeat ,I loved the player and the man.
TT
If we had lost 1-0 to Estonian Champions Flora Tallin last night, it would still be disappointing, but less so.
And therein lies part of the reason for the hangover this morning. Losing an away tie in Europe 1- 0 is not a disaster; losing away to another nations champions by that score is disappointing but hardly surprising.
But we lost to a team from a place that is not even a proper country, & is famous only for some monkeys on a rock!
All the usual “away game in Europe” factors came into play: excessive heat, travel (20 days of that), uniquely horrible pitch with unpredictable bounce & bumps (not to mention the chunks of cancer inducing black & white rubber pellets). The referee took what seemed like an especially lenient view of Imps’ players repeated infractions of foul play, and this allowed their robust style to prevent Celtic from actually playing football. Did the referee also sympathize with the gallant little team facing the giants? From my armchair it looked as if 2 of their players were lucky not to have been shown 2 yellows each.
I admit to being a little confused by Brendan’s team & their style of play. In the 2nd half against Celje, in the 1st half against Sturm Graz, and throughout the game against Ljubljana (until Scott Brown came on) we played with pace, pressing, quick one touch football that was what Brendan told us was the style he wanted the team to play. Last night against Lincoln Red we never saw that style – but then again the starting team last night were missing McGergor, Henderson, Roberts, Armstrong, Johansen & Ciftci.
Despite Brendan telling us how he wanted Celtic to play, it seemed that we reverted to another system last night. Maybe I got that wrong. Maybe this was a game to play differently. Maybe the opposition read our play book and stifled our pressing, move & one touch game. Maybe some players didn’t execute what the manager required.
Which brings me to the players last night – our players.
Saidy Janko is an energetic attacking full back, but we all saw his limitations defensively in the four pre-season games. He cannot kick competently with his left foot, which means that he is an easy player to close down & neutralize. This happened against Sturm Graz, Ljubljana & Maribor and it happened again last night. Opponents press him when he was in possession in our half, and, he if he has no out ball, he simply turns to face his own goal and will not play the ball inside with his left foot. Squeezed between the touchline to his left, an opponent behind him and our goal line in front of him he struggles. Mikael Lustig was missed.
Comparing & contrasting Saidy Janko with Kieran Tierney shows what Kieran does that Saidy doesn’t.
Watching Celtic TV’s footage of the team training on the Lincoln Red’s pitch on Monday, I saw the usual yellow T shirt keep ball sessions & little else. I’m certain there was more to training, but when the game started on Tuesday it looked like none of our players had any clue that the ball would react off the surface the way it did. Passed along the ground, it bobbled like a rock rolling down a hill; passes into space were repeatedly over hit and went out of play; and clearances into our half bounced so ridiculously that they reduced our defence to a chaotic lottery. Efe was booked for his first tackle because the bounce fooled him and he took their guy out six inches above his knee. This only foreshadowed what would happen with their goal, but the whole team looked unprepared for how the ball and the field would interact. Only when Armstrong & Ciftci came on did we look as if we had figured it out. In addition choice of footwear seemed to be problematic for Celtic players but not our opposition. I watched Kieran Tierney slip in our box which allowed their man to get in a decent shot on goal. Kieran was not alone in this. At times it looked like we were playing on ice and they were not. Why? Did we prepare comprehensively for this game on this surface?
James Forrest has pace. He has no touch at this level, he has a questionable attitude in training (look through the training videos from Celtic TV & decide for yourself) & thus on the field. He also has not got a big heart for a scrap – and last night the other team were prepared to scrap. I would not have him in a Celtic team & my heart sank when he was brought on as a sub and Ryan Christie was sacrificed. Christie & Armstrong have shown that they work well together and are on the same wavelength. Other than moving sideways I cannot recall Forrest doing anything last night.
I was also disappointed to see Tom Rogic be substituted, as he too shows the inventiveness yet strength that this team need if they are to progress. He has the touch of Kris Commons & the strength of Sviatchenko in my humbe opinion, and our team should be built round him, Eric & Griff.
All of which means that in my opinion, the two least impressive midfielders last night were Scott Brown & Ni Bitton.
Scott came on in the 2nd half against Graz & we stopped playing the pace, press, move & one touch game that we saw in the 1st half. Perhaps that’s what Brendan asked for, but the difference was very clear, It also made for more predictable & less exciting play. Scott is not a mobile player in the modern sense & particularly in the Brendan Rodgers sense. For all his critics, Stefan Johansen is much closer to that type of player, from those that we have available. It was disappointing last night too to see Scott get involved in personal animosities to the detriment of his game & thus the team. It is who he is, but that doesn’t mean that he cannot channel that trait more productively.
I think I recall that in Brendan Rodgers’s first season at Liverpool he persisted in playing captain Steven Gerrard in his team formation, unfortunately, the wrong position. Gerrard failed to perform well in the advanced midfield role & only when Liverpool changed his position to one more suited to him did the team start to play well. Gerrard played the remainder of his career as deep midfielder in front of the defence.
I suspect that Scott is our Steven Gerrard in so many ways. But no one is exempt from what the team needs & what the coach & tactics demand. He is combative – sometimes to a fault, but that is not enough & I often wonder does he have a disproportionate influence over how the team plays, regardless of what any manager is saying. He is not the future of our club – he is the past, in terms of his age, his ability & his vision.
He is a decent man and good player who has captained our side through testing times, holds legendary club status & has my personal gratitude for kindnesses, but unless Brendan can do for Scott what he did for Steven Gerrard…
Nir Bitton managed to resemble Bambi on ice for most of last night’s game. He was caught in possession, intercepted and pressed in possession so that he was eventually reduced to short square passes of the sort i could manage. On that showing I would bite Espanyol’s hand off to get 6 million for him. Brendan may have felt that since he could not play Johansen that he needed to have Brown play further forward and have Bitton sit in front of the defence, but neither player looked comfortable in these roles. We lacked conviction in key areas of the field and uncertainty in new roles never helps.
As to central defence, I confess to being puzzled. As a youth I remember being taught & teaching a forward to sit on the last defender to stretch the other team. I couldn’t believe that our central defenders fell for that at their level. Their goal came from such a ploy – one ball over the top beats our 1st central defender and lands at the feet of their forward with only Efe between him and Craig Gordon – 8 yards out. Efe couldn’t win after this no matter what he did. The bounce I mentioned earlier beat him & then he had to foul, concede the penalty and be sent off or stay on his feet. He has tried the former many times and it’s always ended badly, so he stayed on his feet this time. A great flick from the forward and then a miss-hit shot did the rest. Efe is a decent player but he’s not smart enough to be a central defender playing against cute players who know how to con refs.
Eric looked the least effective since he joined us, which is a surprise. He was the only Celtic player who’d actually played on that surface before – for Midtjytland last July.
Tactically, it could be said we were beaten by a surface that neutralized our strengths, then finished off by a team of huffers and puffers who were well organized and who understood their strengths and how to use the surface to their best advantage. However, we made things much more difficult by our preparation (that surface should not have caught us out so badly) and our team selection, set up and substitutions.
This was a game & surface that cried out for the very style that we saw on occasion in the earlier pre-season games: one touch, movement, pressing, & interchangeability. Only when Armstrong & Ciftci were on did we look like we might start doing that. I became frustrated watching our players in front of the player with the ball barely move. No or little movement from players who should be seeking to receive the ball is criminal, especially when this is being presented to fans as a cornerstone of Brendan’s style of play.
It seemed as if Griff & Moussa were not sure where to play, move & pass up front. Griff worked his socks off, but we never saw them really click.
Having said all that, we played some nice football at times. Griff hit the bar twice, Bitton was beaten by THAT bounce again for the follow up, Dembele hit a fabulous shot that produced a great save from their keeper & Ciftci could not have headed his final chance any better.
The referee played his part in Celtic being prevented from playing their game but even that couldn’t stop us creating several very convertible scoring opportunities.
We will win the tie, but more importantly Brendan has to look ruthlessly at his players and weed out those who lack the ability, attitude or intelligence to play to his instructions. Asserting his own position in this area is part of job description & is the only way he can ever hope to achieve success at a club like Celtic. Ronny Deila accommodated player moods & whims to a fault and admitted to this when he was leaving the club. He wished he had been stronger when faced with important decisions early on in his time at Celtic.
HH
SUNNYJIM
That’s great post mate, a really good well observed fitbaw post..
My biggest worry is that the players clearly played the way Brendan asked them to. From what I saw of him he made no attempt to change anything from the sidelines either tactically or by way of motivation, it was like watching Ronny V Legia at Murrayfield !
SOUTH OF TUNIS on 13TH JULY 2016 4:23 PM
TONTINE TIM
Ah – Copenhagen B1903..
They were amateurs. My addled ole bonce thinks Jock Stein described that loss as being a contender for the worst ever Award.
*thanks SOT, wisnae sure about that but Danish fitba was really poor at the time. As usual older relatives of sevcos on here loved it.
Cheers also CYRENEAN on 13TH JULY 2016 4:41 PM, we just have to move on, as the hymn says “we’ve done it before and we’ll do it again”.