Here’s the problem: this is a can of worms. If contagion was limited to Sir David Murray and other Murray Group executives, there may be more “appetite” to analyse what went wrong and what to do about it.
Rangers were a rogue football team, operating a tax scheme out with the law, failing to disclose appropriate documentation to HMRC, the SPL and SFA. Legal responsibility for the club’s actions lies with all directors, not just the majority owner. They have collective responsibility to ensure business is conducted appropriately. David King, Paul Murray, Alistair Johnston and former SFA president Campbell Ogilvie, were all Rangers directors during the EBT and DOS years.
The SPFL (formerly SPL) are also implicated. They set terms of reference for what became the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission, then amended those terms to only include matters which were, at that time, regarded as legal, explicitly excluding matters already confirmed as illegal.
They then failed to present evidence to Nimmo Smith of the five matters Rangers admitted guilt on during the First Tier Tribunal process, preferring only to present matters that were in dispute, but (temporarily) found in Rangers favour.
Having done this, they instructed their lawyer not to ask for an opportunity to appeal if the pending HMRC appeal was upheld. Instead, closing the book on a procedural appeal.
The SFA executives side just along the corridor from their SPFL counterparts. Yesterday they issued a remarkable statement:
“Specifically, Senior Counsel was asked to anticipate whether a determination in favour of HMRC, as announced today, could imply that there had been a breach of the Scottish FA’s Disciplinary Rules as they applied at the time of the EBT payments.
The clear opinion of Senior Counsel is that there is a very limited chance of the Scottish FA succeeding in relation to any complaint regarding this matter”.
I refer you to SFA Disciplinary Rule 71, Article 94.1:
“No recognised football body, club, official, Team Official or other member of Team Staff, player, match official, or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall bring the game into disrepute.”
They are asking you to believe that Senior Counsel told them no Rangers official brought the game into disrepute as a consequence of this matter. A matter which has left over £100m debt and hundreds of creditors unpaid, saw 55 players incorrectly registered, and one of the largest clubs in the country liquidated – the consequences of which will be permanent, no matter your view on Newco/same club.
All for an issue which Rangers directors gave evidence in court that the EBT scheme was undertaken to allow them to sign players they would otherwise be unable to pay. Ensuring an illegal sporting advantage.
Possible SFA sanctions for this include fines of up to £1m and/or expulsion from the game.
Sorry, but this is not a tenable position. The game was massively brought into disrepute; to issue a statement claiming otherwise just adds the stench of cover up to an already dreadful state. And bringing the game into disrepute is just scratching the surface, without going into consequences of the club’s actions on competitions.
I question the scope and remit given to Counsel, which was clearly limited in order to make it possible to deliver this statement. Who issued that scope and why it blinded Counsel to the clear matter of disrepute is another question to answer.
Executives at Hampden will have scoured news coverage this morning in the hope that this this will blow over. Scottish newspaper, TV and radio coverage is irrelevant. Instead, they should be looking to establish a recovery position for our game. This is not finished.
Those implicated by the contagion – the “heavily conflicted” do not get to decide that no action is to be taken; Scotland is not yet a Banana Republic.
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Feking Hunbelievable,
Trust my router to drop connection continuously over the past couple of momentous days ;-((
First things first….condolences to those that have lost a loved one….their loss seems harsh to you….but your pain and anger will fade in time…..and you will come to cherish the time you had with them…..you are in my thoughts
A guess it’s second things second….Progres overcomes the epitome of WATP superiority…..hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ;-))
The SC decision to reject the BDO appeal & its implications…..got a lot of catching up to do….but I will say this…..the onus on challenging any dubious statements uttered by the SFA or SPFL should not be on the supporters, but on the Boards of every club (not clumpany) that was affected by their proven cheating
FTSFA & FTSPFL
notholdingmybreathCSC
H.H.
Der Hun is running for them hills
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtQe3Mfb26U&index=2&list=PL1j7brXL_skXDRsi2uUptPqwwIDMqmd88
Der Hun stops to ask for advice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TviI6bhwRM8&index=7&list=PL1j7brXL_skXDRsi2uUptPqwwIDMqmd88
The tone of discussion has plummeted overnight.
I expressed my opinion earlier that we should place SFA on notice.
To save you the bother of checking back here is the conclusion
Put your house in order. Clear out the detritus. Punish the offenders. Immediately.
Or
We will not participate in the cup and withhold our players for internationals.
Clubs, fans, sponsors, TV broadcasters will have all have a common interest in remedying the wrongs, clearing out the sty that is Hampden and restoring the administration of our game to a professional level.
We can disagree and put our case for the various solution, but after decades of providing justification for applications and software enhancements, I have found that it’s best to have a defensible rationale for success.
And
More importantly perhaps, my granny told me that it’s easier to catch flies with honey than vinegar.
And she taught me that when a guest in someone’s house, I should refrain from trashing them and when in a serious disagreement which we can’t resolve, I should quickly and politely excuse myself.
SFA
“You’re saying you were hallucinating on the job…?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGyXU6Ez0S0&list=PL1j7brXL_skXDRsi2uUptPqwwIDMqmd88&index=9
Invincible GG,
Strangely….
Catching up was variation on a theme….I told my Sevco supporting ST holder hun mate, yeh yeh…..am infiltrating….. that Celtic should find a way to withhold our Scotland squad players during the WC qualifiers….just to fuk the SFA…..
Weirdly, he blames the SFA for their current (see what I did there) travails, and agreed ;-))
FTSFA & FTSPFL
H.H.
was = with
TLT
You do know the response to “Great minds think alike.”
…….. :-)
Is it wise to threaten an organisation which has the power to eject you from said organisation ?
Up slit creek without a paddle.
Invincible GG,
Aye, 2 is a consensus;-))
foolsseldomdifferCSC
YNWA
FTSFA & FTSPFL
H.H.
Macjay,
Aye…..it is not only wise….or bluff…..if the SPFHell needs the bigot pound…..then threaten them…..with conviction….to withdraw it ;-))
pieinskythoughtsCSC
H.H.
MACJAY1 FOR NEIL LENNON on 7TH JULY 2017 4:51 AM
Is it wise to threaten an organisation which has the power to eject you from said organisation ?
Up slit creek without a paddle.
————————————————————————————————-
That’s Brexit for you in a nutshell.
Macjay
Would they have the power or right?
Would it matter as we have an SPFL share?
So we couldn’t play in the Scottish Cup.
Anyway it’s a goodnight from me as il look forward to Murray’s game tomorrow.
Followed by our last friendly before the action begins in earnest.
I leave you with the incomparable Cohen
Leonard Cohen Dance with me to the end of love
THELURKINTIM on 7TH JULY 2017 5:02 AM
Well. I don`t know , mate .
But I have confidence that the Masters of the good ship Celtica have the ability to achieve the best possible outcome without my assistance.
They`re in the know. I aint.
:-)
Hasta Luego
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zzug4d51eo&index=7&list=PLE3sbKupLiD8sHuBgf3PRgeQcw18DFEHx
SIONNACH ABU on 7TH JULY 2017 5:02 AM
MACJAY1 FOR NEIL LENNON on 7TH JULY 2017 4:51 AM
Is it wise to threaten an organisation which has the power to eject you from said organisation ?
Up slit creek without a paddle.
————————————————————————————————-
That’s Brexit for you in a nutshell.
==========================================================
No , mate.
As Austrian tanks head South to block the influx of ” immigrants ” through their border with Italy and as Italy cries ” ENOUGH ” at Merkel`s burden she is forced to bear , the Brits are masters in their own house.
And that`s what they voted for.
Not before time.
SIONNACH ABU on 7TH JULY 2017 5:17 AM
Ay caramba. Italiano.
Que coincidencia . No ?
E.T.
Celtic legend Davie Hay has called upon the Scottish football authorities to seriously consider sanctions against Rangers after HMRC were victorious in the so-called ‘big tax case’, up to and including the stripping of titles.
A statement from Celtic on Wednesday called upon the authorities to review the case once more in light of the verdict, and Hay agrees that new punishments should now be considered for Rangers due to their use of EBTs.
And he has called upon the SPFL to show backbone on the issue, and not be afraid to put a line through the 14 honours gained by the Ibrox club during the period they used the payment scheme.
“I know that people might think I’m only saying this because of my connections with Celtic, but I think the SPFL have to seriously look at sanctions against Rangers now, even if that means stripping titles,” Hay said.
“If they have been found to have gained an advantage by foul means, then that is the only fair thing to do.“
Personally, I don’t really care if Celtic or any other side who lost out are given the titles or trophies that would be taken from Rangers.
“In the Olympics, if a runner gets the gold medal years later after the winner at the time is found to have cheated by taking drugs, then it is never really the same.
“For me, this amounts to a similar situation, so perhaps the most common-sense thing to do is simply to strike those honours from the record books.
“I try to be an impartial observer, and I think if anyone from outside this situation were to look at the facts, that would be the common-sense outcome.
“The Scottish football authorities need to be strong with this. When sides have been found to have breached financial rules elsewhere, then they have received those sorts of punishments. It happened to Juventus in Italy, so why not here?
“I’m not saying this through sour grapes, although Rangers supporters will probably see it that way, but from a position of trying to protect the integrity and fairness of our game.”
Hay was puzzled, if not surprised, by the statement made by the SFA in relation to the Supreme Court verdict on Wednesday, where they seemed to rule out any further action being taken against Rangers.
He feels that the findings of the independent commission chaired by Lord Nimmo Smith are now obsolete, and that the SPFL have adopted the right approach in taking their time to consider the ramifications of the verdict.
“It seems to me as if the SFA have jumped the gun a bit here,” he said. “I don’t understand how they can come to the conclusion so quickly that no further action against Rangers is possible.
“The ball is obviously in the SPFL’s court now, and with this verdict now having been made, they have to seriously look at all the facts and consider the implications of what they do next.
“Nobody wants to see such turmoil in the game, but the fact of the matter is that they must look at all of the options that are open to them, and if title-stripping is the most appropriate course of action according to the rules, then so be it.”
Davie Hay.
ET
It was desperately disappointing to hear about the injury sustained by Dedryck Boyata against Slavia Prague, and even more so to hear that he may be out for up to six weeks.
Of course, it is far from ideal for Celtic, but it is much more disheartening for a player who fought his way back from injury and then the fringes of the Celtic squad last season to make such an impact.
Getting a full pre-season under your belt can be so vital for a player, so I hope it doesn’t have a knock-on effect to his season later on down the line.
He showed great heart, desire and character as well as huge levels of dedication to fight his way back into Brendan Rodgers’ plans, and I fully expect he will do the same again.
As for the Celtic defence, fortunately they have the depth to cope with his absence. Erik Sviatchenko can step in there beside Jozo Simunovic no problem at all, and if it comes to it, even Kieran Tierney could play at centre-half with Emilio Izaguirre coming in at left-back.
Of course, the young man was seen as part of a back three last season at times, and he handled it well, and it was interesting to hear Brendan Rodgers talking about Tierney as a possible long-term solution for Scotland in that area.
He played really well on the left of a three against England, but given how well he has adapted to everything else that has been thrown at him in his short career so far, it wouldn’t surprise me to see him flourish at centre-half as part of a duo either.
So, while Celtic would have loved to have had Boyata fit and available for their Champions League qualifiers, they have more than enough in the ranks to cope with his absence.
“If you believe that your thoughts originate inside your brain, do you also believe that television shows are made inside your television set?”
Warren Ellis
Macjay1 @5:15
This ( apart from the Americanism ) could just as easily have been my thought for the day:
“They`re in the know. I aint.”
Cheerio for now. Golf to play.
JJ
Good morning CQN from a dry, sunny and warm East Devon.
Great times to be a Tim, FFS strip the ill gotten gains.
HOT SMOKED on 7TH JULY 2017 6:52 AM
OK.
Am n`t .
;-)
Links in Scotland ?
A joy I lost when I came to Oz.
Mackay at 7.01
Is that a correction of hotsmoked’s post; “ain’t” to “am n’t”?
Mackay = macjay
Davie – well said…….but ditch your PR advisor, and
Stand Up For Fairness.
HH
DHARMA BAM on 7TH JULY 2017 7:24 AM
Mackay at 7.01
Is that a correction of hotsmoked’s post; “ain’t” to “am n’t”?
=========================================
No .
Its an adjustment to my post . Not his .
Is this is of interest ?
Yes it is.
To me, it looked like you were correcting his quote of your post.
However, I’m glad that’s cleared up. ThumbsUpSmileyFaceIcon
What a lousy read back…………
If it’s not one it’s another.
Morning all. When can we expect HMRC to begin the process of recovering the monies owed by recipients of the now-illegal EBTs? No-one seems to have mentioned this of late.
Morning All.
Interesting discussion overnight about Peter Lawwell’s bowel movements and their proximity to Mags McGill’s head.
Monty Python comes to mind.
Anyway, I repeat what I said last night.
You need to think about the practical and pragmatic consequences of the big tax case and learn from the wee tax case.
The LNS commission, nor any other investigation by the SFA or the SPFL has dealt with the following issue.
Unlike every other club in the league, HMRC stated, in writing, that Rangers Football Club repeatedly and deliberately, submitted false PAYE and NIC returns to the revenue in the knowledge that they were paying undeclared sums to players and others as part of their remuneration package.
It is in writing that HMRC considers this deliberate and fraudulent.
It is also a matter of sworn testimony, that Rangers did not declare these payments openly and plainly to the SFA and SPFL for fear of sanction from the football authorities, and for fear of disclosing side letters which would make those payments subject to tax — a tax bill they would have been unable to pay at virtually any time.
It is a matter of sworn testimony, that this entire course of conduct was embarked upon so that they could sign players which they could not have afforded otherwise, and in this method they built up a squad which was meant to be the strongest in Scottish Football and so gain an advantage over every other team in the league.
Finally, in exactly the same circumstances (side letters and all) UEFA through the book at FC Giannina, took them to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, through them out of UEFA competition that same season, and argued before the court that where a football club submits false accounting information in support of a licensing application or registration etc, then the appropriate footballing authority (such as the SFA) should treat their application as incomplete, null and void, and as if it had never been received in the first place.
If that logic were followed through in retrospect, it would mean that Rangers FC did not actually take part in any football competition during the EBT years. Forget the idea of 3-0 defeats — like the Olympic runner who is later disqualified, they were simply never there in the first place!
We talk about integrity in sport — well follow the same line that is used in other sports.
Armstrong was not stripped of his Tour de France title as a sanction, he was expelled from the competition — losing the title was a consequence of being booted out.
The same happens at the Olympics — Ben Johnson was not stripped of his title, he was found ineligible to take part in the race and banned from further races. As a consequence – he lost his Gold medal which was awarded to someone else.
In F1 if it is found that the car entered by a team technically breached the rules, then the vehicle is disqualified from the race — oh and it doesn’t matter if the vehicle won the race on the track. If it wasn’t meant to be there in the first place then what took place on the track, or the field of play, is irrelevant.
Lastly — if you really want to boycott something or someone that will make the SFA or the SPFL sit up and take notice?
Boycott the commercial sponsors of the organisations concerned. Get your pen out, write a letter to William Hill, Specsavers, or whoever and tell them that you will not give them your custom because they are associated with a corrupt and dysfunctional sporting body. It will only take a few hundred such letters to bring the whole thing down.
Why? Because within those organisations it is someone’s job to constantly evaluate and negotiate current and potential marketing and partnership deals. With the arrival of letters, they will automatically contact the SFA as a matter of business and advise them that they may not renew the sponsorship for commercial reasons.
Not only that, Channel 4, various journalists, football fans, ex-managers and players are all publicly demanding change. You will not be seen as a nutter, just a conscientious consumer making a choice.
The one thing that Doncaster nor Regan can ignore is an action which threatens their corporate bank account.
And remember, if it threatens their bank account, it threatens the bank account of every other club in the country.
This is not a time for movement (of the bowel or otherwise) which is based on emotion, anger or instinct. It is time for a cold, calculated, focused approach which really does threaten the rotten institutions which are in place.
MARGARET MCGILL on 7TH JULY 2017 1:05 AM
Put it this way
If their titles are rescinded I’ll go back to buying 3 ST’s a year which I haven’t done since Noah’s Flood.
MARGARET MCGILL on 7TH JULY 2017 1:05 AM
Noah=Willo
Obv
…………………………………………………………………..
Brightened up last nights debate no end!
Just brilliant!
Thanks!
Best wishes to THE MINX and HAMILTONTIM on their wedding day!
Long life and happiness to you both!
God bless!
Didnt expect something like this in the SMSM 0 not your usual Level 5 nonsense – http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/rangers/alan-pattullo-stripping-rangers-titles-will-achieve-little-1-4497193
Good morning CQN
Two of CQN best are getting married today it will be my privilege to be in attendance and share in their joy and happiness with family friends and fellow CQN
H and C have a hoopy fantastic day
DHARMA BAM on 7TH JULY 2017 7:44 AM
Yes it is.
To me, it looked like you were correcting his quote of your post.
However, I’m glad that’s cleared up. ThumbsUpSmileyFaceIcon
============================================================
Well , pal .
That`s a relief.
:-)
PHILBHOY on 7TH JULY 2017 7:59 AM
Best wishes to THE MINX and HAMILTONTIM on their wedding day!
Long life and happiness to you both!
God bless!
==========================================================
Hear Hear.
Every best wish to the happy couple .
And if I could tell the difference between through and threw I would be a right clever dick!