Today our parliament will go through the motions of debating how to criminalise football fans in innovative new ways, not related to prejudice, with the outcome preordained; the Bill will become law. The lines have been drawn on this debate and the country is set for a long and messy campaign.
The various calls for clarification are unlikely to be satisfied as consistency on this subject will be impossible to find. At Celtic, direct or indirect references to the IRA, already deemed unacceptable by the club, manager and most of the support, are likely to lead to prosecution. I would like to see political references removed from football but not at the cost of random criminalisation. It remains to be seen how successful attempts to prosecute fans for transgressing on this subject before the law has been passed will be.
Singing Flower of Scotland will (correctly) never be criminalised but you can expect charges to be brought for expressing similar sentiment. Legally, this sounds like a reach by the SNP government, but it’s likely to be a few young football fans who carry the responsibility of establishing how the judiciary view this matter.
While Celtic will never condone IRA chanting (or, apparently, try to mitigate it as inconsequential, as others did before them with illegal and prejudicial chanting) they have a responsibility to ensure positive parts of our Irish tradition, including the national anthem, the flag and other symbols of the club’s rich and diverse culture are defended.
Football is going to get messy in the months ahead as positions are so entrenched in ‘the songs debate’ there is simply no possibility of agreement. While it may only be a small minority who want to continue political chanting at Celtic, they remain Celtic fans and as entitled to establish their rights as anyone else, including Neil Lennon or Jock Stein. All we can do, as a club and support, is look for common ground amid the turmoil that lies ahead.
Today is your last chance to buy Paul Larkin’s new book, Wim’s Tims-The best thing to hit Scottish football in 10 years, with a 25% discount. Enter code: COUNTDOWN to qualify.
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KevJungle – “Lennons Lions Get Ready To ROAR!!!” says:
15 December, 2011 at 10:56
My boss is Peter Principle
If, PL had any principles would he have signed the documentation that leave’s us/Celtic fans as, sitting ducks for the cops ?
———————
What documentation?
That is a load of tripe.
Here is the stance of Celtic after consultation with supporters groups. This absurd idea that the Board colluded with the Government simply does not stand up in the face of the submission Celtic made to the Justice Committee.
Read it. It makes all the same objections made here and elsewhere in the lead up to the bill.
http://www.celtictrust.net/index.php?func=d_home_article&id=285
dallasnomore says:
15 December, 2011 at 11:04
I have expanded on the tripe comment in my post to KevJungle.
You were talking tripe.
Prove me wrong.
Kev Jungle
A man can only take so much. You are guilty of not only Comma AND apostrophe misuse but also totally inappropriate anthropomorphising!
A prile of literary abuse that could incite a BOP.
Anyway
Not So Light Reading Material
I suppose the question is ‘What magazines would you be crushed under if your loft collapsed?’ Mine of course would be Celtic Views and Match Programmes!!
Hail hail
Estadio
Good Morning to the Celtic Family from a Sunny Central Scotland. Sometimes CQN remindes me of my long ago primary school days the toilets were outside in the playground and you peed against a wall and of course as wee Boys wee used to see who could pee the highest up the wall.Here on CQN it seems to be a contest to to let everyone Know Im a better Celtic supporter than you, Wee Bhoys right enough. Tonight will be an interesting game to see if we have improved in Europe we are playing one of the favourites for the competition so if we should win it would go down in our history as a famous victory.H,H.
Auldheid at 11.00
Correct. Plus honest mistakes. Plus I hope history will record that when Neil Lennon lost the 2010-2011 SPL title by one point it was on the back of a series of threats to his and his family’s lives.
Celtic_First says:
15 December, 2011 at 10:58
‘The current leaders of the business side of the club consistently defend our Irish identity. Even the ones who have no personal connection to Ireland, such as Brian Wilson, do this’
A cynic might say there’s a financial reason for doing so at the moment and that reason might no longer exist if the board support a move to allow a newco huns straight into the SPL.
As I said, time will tell.
I see a few people predicting a draw tonight. Is that a realistic assessment of our chances or a desire for an honerable exit from the competition?
Ernie, so you have them damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
The shame of it! Here’s me having a dig at Kev of the Jungle and using the term ‘prile’…..it should of course be ‘prial’.
My penance will be porridge with no milk!
Hail hail
Estadio
I think we will win tonight but (if the truth needs known) I’d rather go out and make the road to our league flag less stressful.
Nevertheless… give it your best Celtic and no matter the score, you are the only team we have.
would have liked to have been at Udine for the match
the locals are putting on a bit of a do for the visiting fans
heard there is a big tent too – for accommodation ?
nice one !
a wee victory for Victor and the bhoys would cap it
intae them !
Ernie, if I may, another point.
Would a bunch of bean-counters who desperately want Newco FC in the top flight at any cost, including the cost of chasing away a big chunk of their own support, demand cash up front for away tickets on 28 December?
Would that not demonstrate a degree of the old cognitive dissonance?
Celtic_First says:
15 December, 2011 at 11:16
‘Ernie, so you have them damned if they do and damned if they don’t.’
I put it forward as a hypothesis, no more.
I’m fairly sure the huns are going to go bust.
I’m fairly sure there will be a newco huns.
I’m fairly sure there will be a move to allow the newco huns straight into the SPL.
I’m fairly sure the Celtic board will have considered this possibility and will have decided on a strategy if/when the scenario arises.
I strongly suspect they will accede to any move to allow the newco huns straight into the SPL.
I’m fairly sure the board anticipate a loss of on an element of the support and they will want to replace it. How would you go about doing that? Who would you try to attract and how would you do it?
Celtic_First says:
15 December, 2011 at 11:21
No.
It suggests they anticipate the huns will go bust.
They don’t want to extend a credit facility of £320,000 to a company that’s not going to be able to pay.
Estadio says:
15 December, 2011 at 11:17
I think Prile worked too. You pointed out three solecisms.
Prile
1.a hand of three cards of the same value in three card brag
Ernie
Thank you for your answer. I share your conviction and, I think, even the degree of conviction (that is, I am, like you fairly sure) about points one to five. I disagree on point six.
To answer your question to me, I agree that the board will want to attract new supporters and attract back passive existing supporters. I think the best way it can do that is to put a Celtic team on the park that wins the league it is playing in and holds its own against good teams from other leagues, giving us great European nights.
I will write a separate post about your point number six.
G’Day Kit.
If I may ever so ‘umbly disagree with you.
A win tonight has so many positives. Validation of our progress hence galvinising many supporters and their backing; A huge boost to the team’s confidence and an injection of adrenaline that will see us through the cold and wet winter months into the probably even colder and wetter spring months; a monetary boost for the January window; a taste of post new year Euro adventures for the weans; more excuses to celebrate; bladder and bowel deflation across Kinning Park; An echo of the possible to boost Celtic, to boost Scotland and to aid my own convalescence and return to full ‘cossack dance’ mode.
Seriously, I believe a win tonight would enhance our chances of winning the league.
Mind you when it comes to ‘clapping’, ‘happy’ is my resting state!
Hail Hail
Estadio
Celtic_First says:
15 December, 2011 at 11:34
I was overstaing the case by saying ‘ditch all the Irish tosh’.
They will however wish to sanitise and downplay the Irish connection and I think that process is ongoing.
rodow1
That was my intention, but someone looking over my shoulder said it was spelt ‘prial’.
Maybe they are both valid. I hope so as I must have milk in my porridge:-)
Hail Hail
Estadio
Off topic. I am taking my good lady to Rome for a few days at the end of May and would like to ask if anyone can reccomend a nice hotel centarlly located to the main tourist area. Cost not really a big factor just not sure how much time we will spend at hotel as I suspect there is much to see and do. A friend recommended the Sofitel in Central Rome. Has anyone else stayed there?
Any info much appreciated.
kittoch
To your earlier question…a Celtic win will always be more enjoyable than a hun defeat for me.
Unless of course it’s them we’re playing. In which case it’s a double Brucie Bonus :)
weeminger
You are absolutely correct we must base our opinions on fact where possible, I personally have not seen the contract but have absolutely no reason to question the source as he is a Celt. In most negotiations in any industry the finance team or the sales team are always rewarded for producing more profit. When PL is negotiating for shirt sponsors or advertising hosting then set out the amount we expect and reward him a share of anything he achieves in excess of this, but when this norm is applied to player negotiations it goes array.
It is another question which the board should either attempt to justify or change.
Ernie, sorry. I am numerically challenged.
I agree with four of the five elements in your hypothesis. I disagree with this one:
I strongly suspect they will accede to any move to allow the newco huns straight into the SPL.
—
Celtic have lost three league titles in succession in large part, as Auldheid points out, because the board refused to spend unsustainable amounts of money. Losing the titles has brought high levels of disappointment to the support and strong criticism of the board.
Why would the board put itself, its managers, its players and its supporters through these relatively lean years only to support an outcome that ultimately allows its main rival, a club that gained from Celtic’s prudence pitted against its own profligacy, to avoid the consequences of its actions? That doesn’t make sense.
And from a purely financial perspective, whatever money is to be lost as a result of the demise of Rangers can be recouped through extra money from European football. We will face less of a challenge to getting our hands on European football money.
It’s two home league games a season, because the chances of cup games against Newco FC are the same as cup games against Rangers. We have a good chance most seasons of playing in enough European games to compensate.
Those are my reasons for disagreeing.
Estadio
Undoubtedly beating Milan. Therefore my concerns are unfounded.
28% direct saturation on page 13, 50% if you include replies. Over an hour of domination and agenda setting of negativity and not going to Celtic Park as the solution to our ills, and far too many of those things Estadio said.
Hmmm.
Been off the drink for a while, however, I feel a small libation may be appropriate around 10.00 tonight.
A wee celebration, you understand.
Anyone else got a good feeling about tonight’s game?
If we can keep it tight for the first 60 seconds, we’ll have a chance!
C’MON THE CELTS!!!!!
David Villa just broke his leg playing in World Club Championship .
ohits
I think that news broke the blog1
Well, mibby no!
Has a New Article been posted………………………?
maxibhoy
I stayed at the Hotel Hiberia, Via 24 Maggio, earlier this year. It’s an unpretentious but good 3-star hotel, less than 10 minutes on foot to the Trevi Fountain. I imagine the Sofitel will be one star better but I don’t know it. The tripadvisor.com website contains lots of reviews of all the hotels.
No, but I think there are people breaking the f5 button
Philbhoy
Its podium chasing time for the sad F5 bunch.
ohits,
well they certainly wont be selling him now in the Jan window!
Shame for the guy though.
Hope he makes a full recovery as he is a class act, despite his lack of game time this season.
HAIL! HAIL!
Token
Craig Whyte says he’s disappointment by Chelsea’s announcement that Fernando Torres is not for sale at any price and has shelved his daring raid until the summer. Coming on the news of David Villa’s injury it’s a double blow to the trillionaire’s January plans, although Record Sport understands that tabs have been kept on Lionel Messi and insiders say a bid has not been ruled out.
Estadio says:
15 December, 2011 at 11:07
I suppose the question is ‘What magazines would you be crushed under if your loft collapsed?’ Mine of course would be Celtic Views and Match Programmes.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
I apologise for the delay M8!
someone popped in.
Anyway…….I would be crushed under all my, Not The View’s and Once A Tim’s that served to save my sanity during the hun 9 iar!
Hail! Hail!
Hello CQN,
Done a wee profile of Kelvin Wilson here if you want to check it out ahead of potentially returning to the Celtic team soon.
http://fritzagrandold.blogspot.com/2011/12/returning-from-injury-profile-2-kelvin.html
Feedback on the blog/here/twitter welcome as always.
Thanks,
Fritz
Early reports suggest a clean fracture of the left tibia and that he could be out for between four and six months.