Today our parliament will go through the motions of debating how to criminalise football fans in innovative new ways, not related to prejudice, with the outcome preordained; the Bill will become law. The lines have been drawn on this debate and the country is set for a long and messy campaign.
The various calls for clarification are unlikely to be satisfied as consistency on this subject will be impossible to find. At Celtic, direct or indirect references to the IRA, already deemed unacceptable by the club, manager and most of the support, are likely to lead to prosecution. I would like to see political references removed from football but not at the cost of random criminalisation. It remains to be seen how successful attempts to prosecute fans for transgressing on this subject before the law has been passed will be.
Singing Flower of Scotland will (correctly) never be criminalised but you can expect charges to be brought for expressing similar sentiment. Legally, this sounds like a reach by the SNP government, but it’s likely to be a few young football fans who carry the responsibility of establishing how the judiciary view this matter.
While Celtic will never condone IRA chanting (or, apparently, try to mitigate it as inconsequential, as others did before them with illegal and prejudicial chanting) they have a responsibility to ensure positive parts of our Irish tradition, including the national anthem, the flag and other symbols of the club’s rich and diverse culture are defended.
Football is going to get messy in the months ahead as positions are so entrenched in ‘the songs debate’ there is simply no possibility of agreement. While it may only be a small minority who want to continue political chanting at Celtic, they remain Celtic fans and as entitled to establish their rights as anyone else, including Neil Lennon or Jock Stein. All we can do, as a club and support, is look for common ground amid the turmoil that lies ahead.
Today is your last chance to buy Paul Larkin’s new book, Wim’s Tims-The best thing to hit Scottish football in 10 years, with a 25% discount. Enter code: COUNTDOWN to qualify.
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TopCorner says:
14 December, 2011 at 20:32
hamiltontim says:
14 December, 2011 at 20:32
Thanks going via TC 7:15 flight, Miss Prestonpans has never been with me to a game abroad that we have won! She asked if we can do it and I said remember
at HT with Killie, I said “this game is not over” something in my blood has that feeling again!!!!
Paul67 et al
Before any verdicts under the new legislation have been handed
down by the Scottish Courts, the verdict handed down by a UEFA
Committee, and rubber stamped by our Board, has the potential
to do untold damage to our club. Acting from a Corporate perspective
the Board seeks to distance itself from the supporters, to offer up
a sanitised image, fearing the singing or chanting might affect its’
ability to attract Corporate sponsors such as er Tennents. In fact
the opposite has been achieved, in failing to stand up for the club,
and its’ supporters, the Board has opened up the club to repeat
accusations of “illicit” behaviour from all and sundry. As well as
providing the template for convictions under the new Football
Related legislation. Let us hope the Bhoys on the park can
do a better job tomorrow representing the club than
the Board have these last few days.
BT/HT
It’s a sad day when a hun comes on and posts whatever, they receive more replies than decent long standing posters, who do in the main have something to say.
I was talking to a poster earlier about CQN, seems to have lost a sparkle that it had, too many posters calling each other huns and the like, too many false agendas being touted, I understand that CQN has grown arms and legs and these things are expected, but the quality investigations have in the main have gone, mores the pity.
Take Pauls leader yesterday, he told people where to find the stats, and not a single poster took him up on it, a couple of years ago there would have been quite a few finding the stuff, I suppose RTC has accounted for this in it’s own way.
But why oh why would a Celtic supporter want to respond to a hun, when the hun has admited he is a hun,beggers belief.
I don’t think that we have to sing about the IRA, we have all been influenced by the struggle, our parents and our brothers and sisters all know too.
The UK government and therefore, the SNP, are in crisis management zone, due to the collapsing economy and the lack of a way out they have realised that the riots in London were a wee alarm bell.
We are a club in Scotland with Irish/Catholic origins, an embarrassing reminder from history, but despite this, and the proven Institutional racism we remain open to all and have achieved what we have achieved.
We are easy targets.
Paul McBride is detached from the ordinary fan – he lives a jet set life style – loads of money, no kids – defends some of the worst members of society – happily trousers huge sums of money from these same criminals, happily switches political party membership based on what is best for him.
Not a good guy at all. Wish he would keep out of this.
knuckledragersfc
I stopped voting many years ago,not anymore.
Aipple says:
14 December, 2011 at 20:25
ASonOfDan says:
14 December, 2011 at 16:46
First they came for the communists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me
OR
First they came for the non- communists,
and I didn’t speak out because I was a communist.
Then they came for the non-trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak out because I was a trade unionist.
Then they came for the non-Jews,
and I didn’t speak out because I was a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me
All inclusive c.s.a.
oglach UFB says: 20:33
“did anyone listen to Paul McBride on short bread tonight refer to fans who post on Web sites as Knuckle draggers? Mouth open time- even Chick seemed lost for words. There you are We are Knuckle draggers its officical ”
Should we be so suprised? This is the guy that our board has been cosying up to. Him and the other board lackeys.
When you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas.
THE EXILED TIM says:
14 December, 2011 at 20:43
When was the hun on?
TET-spot on re hun protagonists,i might have a few shillings on Celtic -2 goals v St Johnstone,4/1 Hills.
Aipple-how’s the android app coming on mate?
Shameful hunned-up chicanery.
Who exactly is surprised?
HHH.
Adi Dassler,
No worries, no argument, just saying, like:)
I agree previous Governments failed to tackle the subject matter partly, in my view, because it was so entrenched in every walk of life, some overt, some subtle and some hidden. But most definately everywhere.
Jack McConnell started a strategy to highlight and tackle “Scotland’s Shame”. The introduction of the 2003 law was a great step forward, but the succeeding SNP gorvernment failed to treat the issue as seriously. The SNP not only failed to do anything, they actively embarked on a strategy to drop those initiatives.
Then they overseen the “deletion” of the data.
And now they have passed this nonsense of a bill.
I’m off to watch something mundane on the telly and see if there is anything offensive for which I could be jailed if I happened to shout it at a football stadium near you.
TootingTim supports TKF anaw says:
14 December, 2011 at 20:39
I feel the same.
All but done.
Just can’t get the user upload function working as I’d like.
TLJD
Are you in Guildford, Surrey? Am at the other end of the A3 from you if you are ever this way on matchday…
uber-pundit Pat Nevin believe Bobby Zamora should “really go on and hurt himself”.
Great punditry Pat.
@The Idiot
he’s a human being like the rest of us, he goes through the whole emotional gambit every morning, just like the rest of us ‘lucky’ enough to have a job.. jet-setting really? (qualify that statement please)? how about the only serious Scottish lawyer to speak out – and speak out he did – very well (IMHO). So tell me?
TootingTim supports TKF anaw says:
14 December, 2011 at 20:56
Yip, where in the A3 as the road is long?
” While it may only be a small minority who want to continue political chanting at Celtic, they remain Celtic fans and as entitled to establish their rights as anyone else, including Neil Lennon or Jock Stein”
In what context are they a small minority Paul?
There might not be many on Hibee Quick News but there seem to be aright stubborn and loud ‘minority’ amongst the away support.
Let the people sing their lullabies AND their battlecries…
http://scottishlaw.blogspot.com/2011/12/salmond-uses-snp-holyrood-majority-to.html
The Idiot
On the last page.
BadaB
You would be a braver man than me, in the main I don’t like betting on or against Celtic, too many outside influences for me, the exact opposite can be said for betting on the hun imo, in-play betting when the hun is playing can be fruitfull, especially if they go a goal down.
I watched bits of St Johnstone last night on the bookies site, they were brutal as were Aberdeen, and I would expect any team we put out to beat them, but as every other team in the league have shown, when they play us they know that with the help of the officials their game can go up a gear or two as they don’t have to play to the same rules as we do.
There were posters on here last week saying that the hartz players, with no getting their wages might no be up for it at CP, aye, and the huns pay their taxes………
Best of luck anyways, as I said you are a braver mhan than me :>)
Twinbhoy says:
14 December, 2011 at 21:00
He was actually calling in from his holiday in the West Indies. Flying home to Scotland on Monday to meet with the diet H*N players to help them out for free as he freely mentioned – my money will be coming from mad vlad he confidently predicted – really Vlad has money left. McBride is indeed a sainted individual didn’t he demand action be taken against the GB!! he is self serving and changes spots as often as a thing that changes spots a lot.
Despite the latest news about McBride I believe he has a soft spot for the boys.
Those who have colluded in this shameful mess must be vey pwoud.
@oglach UFB
Mcbride is doing his job. How does that sound? Someone has to wind Hearts down? for free *facepalm* Action against the ‘Green Brigade’ – well probably yes – because he knows the LAW!
what action has PMcB QC taken out on the GB?
bankie
The sad truth of the matter is, they probably are very pwoud.
just realised, would that be Tooting, Tooting..? :)
Twinbhoy says:
14 December, 2011 at 21:17
Action against the ‘Green Brigade’ – well probably yes – because he knows the LAW!
And what law have the GB broken or indeed any Celtic fan that would upset McBride so much! i think he also stated on Shortbread that he wants to try and save Hearts
My dear friends in Celtic
The last couple of years have been a watershed for us. Its a long time since I started posting on CQN (cant remember how many years). Over the years I have fought and fought to try and get some control of the Celtic agenda. To try and influence a board that I could see didnt share our ambitions.
I (we) have failed in that.
After PL lied to us about transfer money at the start of last season many of you (even the happy clappers) had had enough. Then came the referees strike etc – and our board for the first time looked like they really wanted to tackle the issue. The threats against NL and others galvanised us – we had a cause and felt united (for a brief time).
But that glimmer of hope faded quickly – it had the right effect for the Board – attendances increased for a while as we backed NL.
But then the Board betrayed us again. They let all and sundry accuse us of sectarianism and even racism. They allowed the BBC to wrongly say we sung sectarian songs 2 months after the huns belted them out with impunity and where praised.
It reminded us that they couldnt give a toss about us.
They have let the SNP distort the truth and the police ridicule and abuse us and said nothing.
They want our money and for us to shut up
This is the lowest moment ever for me as a Celtic supporter. I cant see a way back now – the support will desert the club (and I think its right now that we do – if only to try and win back the soul of the club by chasing DD and the others away – only lack of money will do that).
As for the SNP – the bill betrays their arrogance. They truely are tartan tories. This is their poll tax. What they dont realise is that the cant control the police. Strathclyde police is institutionally sectarian. We all know it. They will come after us with gusto – I expect violence to return to the stands and streets in and around games as they wade into us. I expect horror stories to emerge from court cases etc – I expect cases at the ECHR.
The gig is up for this board and we do need to hurt our club now to chase them away…….
NA
McBride is a self pubclicist extrodinaire
@oglach UFB
you do realise that Paul McBride is hired as counsel – an expert in his field? Hence, getting work for all kinds of people/places.. ‘loyalty’ is not a deal breaker?
Neg anon @ 21.22 – great post, every word of which is depressingly true.
ET,
To pull this caper off has taken premeditated malice and collusion.
‘bear’-faced in the most part but we’ve suffered some ‘friendly’ fire too.
Can’t decide what makes me more angry.
HH
NegaNon2
Brilliant post.
I’d hate to walk away from Celtic. I’m now a family man, cant justify going to Celtic Park and looking over my shoulder wondering if i’m going to be locked up for the night, or weekend.
I have a beautiful understanding wife, doubt she would hang around after that.
Big Nan says:
14 December, 2011 at 21:16
“Despite the latest news about McBride I believe he has a soft spot for the boys.”
hmmmm
Twinbhoy says:
14 December, 2011 at 21:27
He is a lawyer no loyalty at all i assume and didn’t expect any just wondering why any of the Celtic support would say he’s a decent sort. He was paid to do a Job for Celtic, very handsomely one assumes, and did it. He then went on to condem the GB and, please correct me if i am wrong, suggest that punitive action should be taken against them. All this is alleged of course!!