Today our parliament will go through the motions of debating how to criminalise football fans in innovative new ways, not related to prejudice, with the outcome preordained; the Bill will become law. The lines have been drawn on this debate and the country is set for a long and messy campaign.
The various calls for clarification are unlikely to be satisfied as consistency on this subject will be impossible to find. At Celtic, direct or indirect references to the IRA, already deemed unacceptable by the club, manager and most of the support, are likely to lead to prosecution. I would like to see political references removed from football but not at the cost of random criminalisation. It remains to be seen how successful attempts to prosecute fans for transgressing on this subject before the law has been passed will be.
Singing Flower of Scotland will (correctly) never be criminalised but you can expect charges to be brought for expressing similar sentiment. Legally, this sounds like a reach by the SNP government, but it’s likely to be a few young football fans who carry the responsibility of establishing how the judiciary view this matter.
While Celtic will never condone IRA chanting (or, apparently, try to mitigate it as inconsequential, as others did before them with illegal and prejudicial chanting) they have a responsibility to ensure positive parts of our Irish tradition, including the national anthem, the flag and other symbols of the club’s rich and diverse culture are defended.
Football is going to get messy in the months ahead as positions are so entrenched in ‘the songs debate’ there is simply no possibility of agreement. While it may only be a small minority who want to continue political chanting at Celtic, they remain Celtic fans and as entitled to establish their rights as anyone else, including Neil Lennon or Jock Stein. All we can do, as a club and support, is look for common ground amid the turmoil that lies ahead.
Today is your last chance to buy Paul Larkin’s new book, Wim’s Tims-The best thing to hit Scottish football in 10 years, with a 25% discount. Enter code: COUNTDOWN to qualify.
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The Legend Johnny Doyle says:
Yes, near there!
Now in Stockwell area (as is the A3).
I know Guildford a little, is there a Celtic-friendly boozer there?
It had a Chelsea Shop a few years ago, are they the best supported team locally?
When republicans first alleged collusion between the state and loyalist murder gangs in the murder of its citizens, they were mocked by the establishment parties, including the so -called nationalist parties. We were told that sort of thing could only happen in some far off land ruled by some tin-pot dictator.
With every passing day, the stories keep coming out which clearly shows in my opinion that it was an intrinsic part of British policy against republicans and nationalists and was sanctioned at the highest levels. The policy involved state sanctioned murder of the state’s own people.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-16179921
Árd Macha
Neganon
Evening buddy hope you’re well but I’m afraid I can’t agree with your view on the current situation.
I suppose to some I would be perceived as being a happy clapper. I wouldn’t put myself in that category personally but hey ho. I took to the car park before and I will do so again if, or when, I felt it necessary.
I understand completely your anger and angst concerning events involving Celtic in the previous 2 years in particular. Have the board let us down? Yes. Are they as culpable as you are suggesting? I don’t believe so.
It pisses me off when PL et al are being blamed for things which have yet to happen. We do not know what would happen were the huns to be permitted re entry straight into the SPL should administration come about. Despite this some Celtic supporters have already hung, drawn and quartered our board members.
The thing is, if I’m honest I could never, ever turn my back on Celtic and that includes the possibility of thems automatic reinstatement
@oglach UFB
The first lawyer in a generation, to speak out for Celtic FC – as he did – emotional and angry – that was a triumph!
bankie
I think we both know what bothers us more, we knew what was coming from the other side, I honestly didn’t see what was coming from the ff, though it became clear last year, and I must admit with some hindsight of events.
The next big decision is newco, and in many ways I am looking forward to it in so many ways, but equally I am as worried as hell that the suits will choose the wrong path.
I can not let the notion go that there is another plan, if I let that go, I may as well give up on it all now.
As its the season of Good Will i signed up for £2 a month to adopt a Cheetah, imagaging my surprise when they sent me a photo of Sone Aluko.
come on Odense
get one !
2-2 would mean fulham papped oot
replaced by Krakow
Twinbhoy
Aye, but who did he support before Celtic?
Aye, and who does he support now?
SOAL,
Good Will Hun(ting)?
Árd Macha
TootingTim says:
14 December, 2011 at 21:34
Look forward to meeting up one day, let’s hope you can come along for the planned formation of the Guildford CSC.
Hail Hail
JD
@Philbhoy
Who cares?
Cant believe Celtic are only 9/2 to win tomorrow night. wtf???
I was expecting something closer to 10/1.
Anyone know what channel its on? (terrestial tv pleeeeeeaaaaasssse)
Nighty night
Twinbhoy
You are right!
I couldn’t give a toss for the man.
Knoxy
SNPE
I take it that, as much as most of us would rather the IRA songs faded from Celtic Park, we think the the SNP rules are oppresive and against natural justice. It begs the question what do we do at our next home game? Presumably the likes of the CSA and GB are formulating their own responses. What might it be? 45 minutes plus of silence? Direct abuse, sorry criticism, of the bufoon Salmond and his nationalist party? Renditions of “We Shall Overcome.” or republican songs that don’t mention proscribed organisations? Leave section 111 to their fate and hope you don’t get lifted for singing the “Eff the Rangers” add on to the Celtic Song on the 28th?
Neganon
Sorry pressed submit by mistake.
…You see I only look upon PL, SD and the rest as landlords at Parkhead. They will be gone in time and shall be replaced by a.n other. I couldn’t stand Jock Brown and I disliked Terry Cassidy even more. Fergus angered me because he didn’t back Tommy Burns to the extent he could and should have. But through them all, I knew that some day they’d be gone but Celtic would still be there.
Celtic is, for me, a gift from my family who have now moved on, they’ve handed the reins over to me with the expectation that I will carry on a tradition and celebrate it.
If I were to stop going I would be disrespecting them and Celtic, a gift I’ve been blessed with.
hi guys,
you know what? i’v been reading this great site for years,posting very infrequently but always enjoying it.
now i’m beginning to despair,i feel as if i’ve just arrived in this country after living abroad for 20 years.
what are guys going on about the board for in relation to this bill and the songs debate??
all Peter Lawell has done is ask us to stop singing these songs,is he wrong to do that?
without sounding like a big wean,they are are 1 million times worse than us,a different breed,nasty,aggressive,violent.
But,and i know i’ll need the tin helmet for this,seems to me like we have rightly asked for years and years to pack in their garbage
now when we are being asked what we are gonnae stop its like”no,hold on,our songs are no this and no that”
i follow the bhoys home and away,love the old “war music” but come on guys,its offensive to some.We are better than this.
Spirit of Arthur Lee….
Doh! Thanks. Dodgy stream it is then!
Thinking of gettin BT vision in the new yr when current deal runs out.
That’ll get me all freeview plus SNPE plus sky spts 1 & 2 plus broadband plus line rental plus a pvr box thingmymabobber for £40 a month.
Not too bad.
p.s. not getting in on the ‘songs’ crap its boring the balls off me.
(can i say that? is that illicit or offensive or anything?)
The Legend Johnny Doyle:
Sounds like a plan, would be grand to see that happen:)
Twinbhoy says:
14 December, 2011 at 21:39
@oglach UFB
The first lawyer in a generation, to speak out for Celtic FC – as he did – emotional and angry – that was a triumph
—————————————————————————————————————————————————-Mo Chara
There are many people who speak out for Celtic with anger and emotion each day – just read the posts here. I have recently watched Mr Kelly along with renowned Scottish academics give a number of spirited defences of the Celtic support on TV. McBride did what he was paid to do. He represented the board and Celtic PLC and I guess indirectly the support. Where was he in the debate regarding the new legislation – right at the front demanding it be brought in to force! Not the actions one expects from a Celtic supporter –well not in my opinion.
I guess we will agree to disagree.
excellent
2-2 with final touch of the ball
haha
fulham papped oot !
LOL @ Fulham!!!!
Conceded in last 5 seconds of game, out of Europe.
Odense score with the last touch of the game to send Fulham out.
Jobo
Paul67
I havent read a single post on this tonight but your blog today is full of dignity and leadership on a topic completely lacking in either of these, from our so called government, in this sad little region or provence.
10seconds earlier….
fulham 2 on 1 in on goal
damien duff pure ragin at his young colleague who failed to play him in
arms wide open a la geez the baw !
haha
hilarious
best league in the world
:)
If ever there was a lesson on why to run the ball into the corner in the last minute, that was it!!!
Tighten yees!
delighted for Krakow !!
Night night all! And no singing in your sleep, mind…
Jobo
Martin Jol
retained some dignity at the end
credit to him
TC
Stuck the odd 87p on my balance on Odense to draw after I saw your post, 22/1, a cyber pint is winging it’s way to you.
The new legislation is to receive some analysis on The World Tonight on BBC radio 4, which has just started.
Presenter Robin Lustig trailed it by asking if Scotland needed extra legislation on bigotry. This is promising. But if Pat Nevin comes on I’m going to read my book. Unless Paul 67 is on too.
Maybe Prof Devine will get a game. That would be good. If it’s Christine Grahame I’m sending in a complaint. If it’s Kenny MacAskill I’m going down there.
Yer man needs to go to specsavers.
“He only moved the ball 6 to 12 inches. 12 inches max”
It looked 18 inches to me
Pedantic.CSC
Hamiltontim,
Good response – I know what you mean – Celtic have been my ONLY constant in a turbulent (but generally enjoyable) life. I love the club dearly – but more than that I love the support. We are quite remarkable – really we are. We are vilified in this country and yet make friends everywhere else. We are inspirational (ask supporters of other clubs around the world).
But the very thing that you cling to – blind loyalty – is the very thing that the board are using to exploit us. Even worse its the very thing that is destroying the club. The current encumbents are now, in my view, worse than the very long list of poor board members we have had. At least the old boards fought the sectarianism and anti Celtic press. They showed some guts. The old board also exploited us – but at least they werent billionaires. Fergus did what he said he would and got his reward – he did that off the back of the support.
THIS lot – well they are presiding over the most sustained and incredible assault on the support and not only do they not fight against it but they support the attack. I have never seen anything like it. Not only that our Billionaire owner runs us down to ensure he gets his divs – you couldnt make it up.
Whats more they hate us as a support. DD has been quite open about this. PL is simply a liar and you can see through his so called suger coated bull@@it when he tries to praise us. Where is he defending us then – because we are not sectarian? He is nowhere. I wont even add the stuff about presiding over a disasterous 3 years commercially – after all whats the point – its all been said before.
The heart of our club has been ripped out – I cant see who can perform surgery to save us – the board would like to keep us on bypass to keep taking our blood.
What are we gonna do?
NA
knoxy2000
Bt Vision? Most of us on here would like to see the world through the eyes of Blantyre Tim, but sadly, unlike him, we can’t afford the green tinted contact lenses!
I don’t get the anti Fulham thing.
The club and their fans were always very welcoming at the pre season friendlies.
BBC Four looks a great interview with John Arlott.
Árd Macha