There seems to be more confusion than clarity following this afternoon’s press conference at Ibrox where Duff and Phelps gave information on Rangers FC PLC (in administration).
Most important item first. The administrators confirmed that they will propose a Creditors Voluntary Agreement (CVA) in order to avoid the company being liquidated. You should ignore sounds of confidence on this matter. The administrators have to sound confident that they have a good deal for creditors, no point telling everyone, ‘We’ve made an offer, but ooph, don’t hold your breath!”
No indication was given that any creditors were on-side, never mind the 75% by value required. HMRC will have the casting vote in this campaign and are exceptionally unlikely to set a precedent for football clubs to opt-out of PAYE, NI and VAT.
One fascinating wee snippet is the missing £24m from Ticketus. Of course, if you believed Craig Whyte, the money went into the club. Alternatively, the money was paid to Whyte’s solicitors in advance of the club sale and went straight to Lloyds Banking Group. The remainder will be with one of Whyte’s companies and could well be paying salaries next week. Nothing too exceptional.
How Ticketus secured this loan is more intriguing, but there is so little information published this is not particularly surprising. Ticketus might have screwed up, but I reckon there is simply a detail not yet revealed to the administrators or public. A non-committal reply was given to a question on the floating charge over the company originally held by Lloyds, which will possibly reveal more about Ticketus when confirmed.
At some point, possibly next week, the CVA will be proposed. Once the administrator has a response to this they will be in a better position to suggest how likely the company is to be liquidated. Until then, it’s all cheer leading by the guys from London.
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The campaign against Whyte is in full flow with all of the media and former RFC directors and the police and all the talking heads.
He is being demonised and before we know RFC will be being presented as a victim in all of this.
And victims need support not more hardship.
Should I up my medication? Am I clairvoyant?
DeniaBhoy says:
17 February, 2012 at 07:11
‘Whyte’s tax adviser is a porn star – surely not? You could always trust the Sun to get this exclusive:’
All these ‘revelations’ in the main stream media have been discussed and documented on here, the RTC blog and elswhere for over a year.
The journalist in the MSM know this and can see that the writing is on the cyberwall for their careers. That partly explains their anger and hostility. They, quite rightly, see their futures as under threat.
amadeus says:
17 February, 2012 at 09:40
for the billionth time, it will now be 8 days before those points are deducted (puts on tin hat and retreats into bunker)
********++
So why did SPL change their table on 14/2 and BBC have in their more detailed page. Are Duff and Phelps new signings?
ernie
You have to assume it will be for at least the initial purchase price plus interest, and ‘penalties’.
I thought that was one pound so say with penalties and compounded interest one pound fifty five pence.
Next game at Ibroke , before they rip it down and salt the earth the Celtic end should donate a few coins to the cause, seeing as no bears are using their won hard earned tax avoidance spare change.
lovin it. Every moment. Hope it lasts for months before they come back as fourth lanark in division three.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. Going to an happy birthday administration day bbq tommorrow to share the joy.
I reckon there will be at least one empty seat at Ibrox…..
NEWSFLASH STUART BATHGATE LOCATES HIS TESTICLES AND IS AWE NAWED FREED THIS WEEK
Stuart Bathgate: No sympathy when the public purse is being short-changed
Craig Whyte should be treated like every taxpayer. Picture: Robert Perry
Published on Friday 17 February 2012 02:39
Her Majesty’s Revenue & Customs should treat Craig Whyte no differently than any other taxpayer
IF you or I fell behind with our taxes, say for a relatively small amount such as £900, we would get a late-payment penalty and the threat of further legal action. The First Minister of Scotland would not rush into a television studio to call on Her Majesty’s Revenue & Customs to be reasonable and give us more time. The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom would not declare that the priority was for us to survive and thrive.
Both of those politicians, if our minor financial difficulties came to their notice, would rightly say that the rule of law is paramount. Times are tight, it is more important than ever that taxes are paid, our public services need proper funding.
So why, when Craig Whyte falls behind with his taxes for a relatively large amount like £9million, is there such a different reaction? Why has there been such an outpouring of sympathy, not only from Alex Salmond and David Cameron, but from a far wider section of society?
Is there no room, between that sympathy of a large tranche of public opinion and the Schadenfreude of those who dislike Rangers, for any other position? For example, one that says by all means let’s get Rangers back on their feet, but not at the expense of the public purse?
As politicians, Salmond and Cameron have an interest in courting positive publicity. The former is deeply unpopular with many Rangers fans, the latter with just about everyone else in Scotland, so they could do with a bit of help. Even so, it has been breathtaking how willingly those two senior governing figures have distanced themselves from the arm of government, HMRC, which is there to fund their plans, build our schools and keep our hospitals open.
Salmond has tried to present himself as an honest broker, calling for the Revenue and Rangers to play softball together. Speaking on the BBC’s Reporting Scotland on Wednesday evening he said: “The most important thing is to get a sensible agreement between Rangers and HMRC in terms of the extent of what’s owed and how that can be paid off.
“The most important thing is that Rangers are able to continue as a football club. That’s the absolutely critical matter. I think if we keep our eyes on what’s best for Rangers as a club, as an institution, for other clubs in Scotland, for Scottish football, then that would be a sensible thing to do.”
What’s best for Rangers as an institution? What does that badly overused word have to do with anything? Next time the Revenue are on your case, tell them you’re an institution and see how far that gets you.
Cameron, to give him his due, retained a little more distance, albeit while expressing the same misplaced sentiments. “I want that club to survive and to thrive,” he said on his visit to Scotland yesterday. “It has an extraordinary history. It has a very special place in many people’s hearts in Scotland and no-one wants to see that club disappear. So I hope that HMRC will work as closely as they can with the administrators to try to solve the problems, to try to resolve the issues.”
That last phrase is suitably vague: resolving the issues. If it means securing the future of the people who work at Ibrox, most of us would be with him there. If it means letting Whyte off lightly, we would beg to differ.
Because there is a position between sympathy and Schadenfreude. One which, after a couple of days of near silence, is beginning to find its voice. And it’s an increasingly angry voice.
There is an e-petition on the official British government website, for example, called “Rangers. Pay your taxes.” It can be read, signed or commented on by clicking here.
It mentions the pending tax case which could cost the Ibrox club around £50m in addition to the £9m in VAT and PAYE which Whyte has not paid, and concludes: “Rangers FC and their owners need to pay their dues, pay their taxes and take the full punishment that is imposed on them.”
And on the Hearts supporters’ chatroom, Jambos Kickback, one poster writes: “[Salmond] said his priority is ensuring Rangers survive. As First Minister, his priority should be what is best for the Scottish taxpayer and if that is the closing down of Rangers then that is what he should call for.
“I do not think those who are struggling, [have] seen their businesses close or have been pursued vigorously for tax due, would appreciate any let-off or a laidback attitude.”
It is debatable whether the closing-down of Rangers would benefit the taxpayer, but the principle stands. There is no reason why Whyte should be given an easier time than any other individual who is late in paying tax. Indeed, given the size of the sum he has failed to pay, he should be pursued with even greater vigour than anyone whose misdemeanour may amount to a few hundred pounds.
That is something we should all be able to agree on whether we support Rangers, loathe them or have no interest in football. We could do a lot with that £9m: build more facilities for health or education, fund more anti-crime initiatives, or simply succeed in delaying a few of the cuts that are being implemented by the UK government. Craig Whyte should be held liable for every last penny of it.
Good to see that Strathclyde Police are now showing an interest, it would be embarrassing if the City of London Police had to come to Glasgow themselves and do the necessary because our home grown boys just were not up to the task.
If you knowingly traded whilst insolvent, knowing that all things being equal you can never get ahead, you withhold PAYE and NI and VAT, just so you can continue your lifestyle and your favoured employees’ theirs, then I believe that is illegal, criminal even and it leaves all directors of the club liable for the debts of the club. Am I right in saying that?
Those two administrators looked a wee bit shifty. I hope they are not hiding anything that would get the City of London’s Police’s back up. There is unfinished business with that particular force.
While I’m having fun at the distress of the hoards on the south side, there’s something we have to remember, and remind everyone.
It was not Murray that used EBT illeagally it was RANGERS
It was not Whyte that neglected to pay NI, VAT and Income Tax for the previous 9 months. It was RANGERS
We shouldn’t let them distance themselves from the facts, I don’t care that as one charlatan stepped aside another wandered in to flatter the fans, IT WAS ALL DONE IN THE NAME OF RANGERS.
RANGERS ARE GUILTY
Tom McLaughlin says:
17 February, 2012 at 08:32
Here is why Rangers will not come out of administration . . .
Several media outlets in Scotland are reporting that McCoist and Whyte are hopeful that Rangers will emerge from administration relatively unscathed, having come to an agreement with their creditors. The media reports don’t mention that last bit, but that is the only way they will come through administration without further sanction.
Craig Whyte does not want that to happen, because the administration arose due to 9m owed to HMRC for unpaid PAYE Tax and VAT over the 9 months since he took over. If they were to come through administration, with the agreement of their creditors, the big tax bill would then throw them back into administration and worse, when it arrives.
Whyte wants liquidation. It is the only way he has a chance of escaping the big tax bill.
Liquidation is the only option.
——————————————
Nail on head Tom.
Any Rangers supporting colleagues, friends or family should be made fully aware of the above!
I am, like Tom, totally and utterly convinced that they are getting liquidated.
£14 Million value v’s £100Million (plus) debt. Work it out.
So the scenarios we are left with:
1. Rangers get liquidated some time soon. Newco emerges. What to do with Newco becomes the only show in town. RFC as we have known them do not exist.
2. They get out of administration some time soon. Then the big bill, as Tom points out, sinks them again. Liquidation follows. Newco emerges. Same issue arises.
3. Some clown buys them. 1 or 2 still happens unless said clown wants to blow at least £100 million on £14 Million worth of assets.
4. They are allowed to stay in administration and pay off their tax bills and other debts in full for as long as it takes. Might suit us because they will be a busted flush for at least a decade and maybe more.
The only likely scenario IMO is number 1. After which buyers will come in for the Newco and the Old Rangers fans, with nowhere else to go will flock to New Rangers. Unfortunately we will be stuck with something that smells just as bad as the Old Rangers. What we must ensure is that Newco, as we all know, start from the bottom up like the new club that they are.
amadeus – well your drunken legal pal shouldn’t talk whilst under the influence. Rangers are officially in Administration. What will be your next outlandish claim so that you can continue to receive attention on the blog? Celtic aren’t actually top of the league?
I too think that ibrox will be a sell out tomorrow and I wouldn’t be surprised if Hitler, Stalin and Franco put in a n appearance.
This is there last hoorah and an opportunity for them to show the world what they mean be No Surrender.
However, I had an interesting wee chat with my single hun mate last night.
He gave up two season tickets this season, for him and his son, because of the weans own football commitments.
He received a surprise phone call from RFC on Wednesday. Firstly they asked if he would like to take up the offer of a parent/child season ticket for the remainder of the season. When he replied that this still wasn’t possible due to the ongoing priorities of his son, he was offered the chance to purchase 4 tickets for this Saturday’s game against, 2 adults and 2 children.
The price?
£20!!!
No not £20/ticket but £20 for ALL 4.
Deseration is coming to a football ground near you.
jock steins celtic says:
17 February, 2012 at 09:59
you can’t slander the dead so when the huns die we can use the word huns freely ?
+++++
That’s factual; not slander
Like a lot of us,I’m trying to figure out when the EBTs-or similar-started.
I remember a Paul Gasciogne interview on Alan Brazil’s TALKSPORT show,about six years ago.
PG was in a bad place at the time,and the interview was painful,but when asked about his shambolic finances,I defo remember him coming out with this little nugget……
THAT HE HAD A COUPLE OF MILLION IN AN OFFSHORE TRUST
I wonder if any of you can remember,join the dots etc.
TwistnTurns:
My wife left me over two weeks ago because of my obsession with Sinead O’Connor.
In fact, it was 7hrs and 15 days…
Folly Folly thank you.
If the huns go into liquidation they cease to exist, end of.
No matter what form they mutate into, which will probably be uglier than the current incarnation (which I know is hard to believe – I think we should be calling them a NeoCo) the entity that is part of the Sky deal no longer exists.
The question is, how can the Sky contract stipulation of four “Old Firm” games a season be relevant and indeed valid when one half of the Old Firm relationship has died?
Kitalba – not forwarding PAYE is not a criminal offence. It is immoral and will get your business reemed by the taxman but it is not a criminal offence.
BBC on this page not updated…..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/
Anyway enough..
I think there will be a lot of empty seats at Ibrox tomorrow. A lot of Hun ST holders won’t turn up. Though a rump will show for the aforementioned sing song.
kitalba says:
17 February, 2012 at 10:05
Good to see that Strathclyde Police are now showing an interest, it would be embarrassing if the City of London Police had to come to Glasgow themselves and do the necessary because our home grown boys just were not up to the task.
+++++
I’m assuming you’re being mischievous here.
boumsongCSC
Paul Murray leading a buy-out of “The Gers” (in administration), a few thoughts:
Is this the same Paul Murray that was a director of Rangers while they apparently defrauded HMRC of tens of millions of pounds?
Is this the same Paul Murray that was a director of Rangers while they ran up debts to state-owned Lloyds of £18m that they never paid back?
Is this the same Paul Murray that was a director of Rangers while they continued to sign and pay players in preference to paying back either of the above?
Before you answer, can I ask a queshun?
Is this the same Paul Murray that currently fails the SFA’s fit and proper person criteria?
Good luck with that one boys.
CultsBhoy, you’ve been shared.
Morning from a bright & balmy Chilterns.
Hi Paul,
”One fascinating wee snippet is the missing £24m from Ticketus. Of course, if you believed Craig Whyte, the money went into the club. Alternatively, the money was paid to Whyte’s solicitors in advance of the club sale and went straight to Lloyds Banking Group. The remainder will be with one of Whyte’s companies and could well be paying salaries next week. Nothing too exceptional
I think I have seen plan A or B or C or whatever Craig is on at the moment.
He keeps the Cash and the Infrastructure in the R@ngers Group or intertwined companies.
He keeps the running Costs, current/past liabilities and future liabilities (the FTT case) with the Club, the only asset the club seem to have are the players’ contracts, however they do have to be paid every month.
So if the club goes into liquidation – the Whyte Knight unsheaths his floating charge over RFC and grabs their only asset – the players contracts.
He now owns Ibrox Stadium, Whyte Park and the players – pre-packed R@ngers 1872 F.C. are ready to take their rightful place – writing the next Chapter of Scotland’s glorious Football history – did you know it is oor National Sport?
An interesting scenario created with Machiavellian cunning – wee problem though – the games a bogie, he has as much chance of delivering this as dribbling a rugger ball through an All-Blacks backline and scoring a try.
BUT
‘Afore I got tooooo carried away about aul’ Craigy dropping the ball again and looking like a putts, while RFC are flushed away like a…………. now how would you describe that…………….
It struck me that all this Hue & Cry in Scotland over the demise of the R@ngers when they grievously owe the tax man, have been intravenously financial doping, devastated Manchester, had Uefa sanctions imposed and caused a summit in Scottish Parliament leading to the writing of legislation.
What then if it turned out to be a fraudster, a trickster, a swindler and all-round bad egg who had brought about their ultimate demise.
It wouldn’t be the unfortunate fans fault, the players fault or poor Ally’s fault that a con man brought the great institution to it’s knees – Hue & Cry – Babe we ain’t seem nuthin’ yet!
BTO – CSC
Ernie Lynch – I hear you. I’ve been posting on here for years and know most of what is coming out has been told on here and on RTC etc. before. The Sun scoop today on the porn tax adviser though is surely an exclusive :)
For what it’s worth I think Rangers will be liquidated and there will be no Newco. I don’t think anyone will come forward to revive them, once they’re gone, they’re gone IMO.
I hope Declan will be along soon to give us a realistic perspective on the current situation……
Optimistic little soldier – :-))))))))))))
RogueLeader:
I wasn’t saying not paying your dues on collection was criminal, I was more trying to make the point that not paying your dues but keeping your dues to prop up a leper colony so to speak, well I thought that was criminal. Then watching Hector’s beer tokens evaporate in the presence of loan sharks, now surely there is something a wee bit eensy weensy criminal about some of that.
Talk about robbing Peter to pay Paul.
bmcd- “You can almost hear David Begg on radio shortbread at 3.01 tomorrow as hullo hullo is belted out ” The big hoose is rocking , the fans are in fine voice…… penalty rangers surely, what do you think Billy Dodds” .” Stonewaller ” says Billy (boy) Dodds. Craig Paterson( former huns captian) ” penalty for me , even the crowd thought so “………..”
This is before the teams have kicked off. I think you have heard the patter of Mssrs Begg, Dodds and Paterson before ;-)
Wouldn’t write off Killie totally, they did win last time (thanks Sone), but they will need to be brave in the red hot last night of the proms atmosphere.
Anyway, as long as we win events at Ibrox are irrelevent.
dirtymac \o/
No it is what I was told. I was told that they never lost interest. No when others aren’t paying too much attention to the shareholders interests.
Stokes and Hooper for the Hibs game, Sammi out left. The defence and mid will take care of themselves. Got to keep our eye on the ball here.
dirtymac \o/
It was also mentioned (alluded to) in one of todays broadsheets, or on the BBC, if I’m not mistaken.
Rangers’ problems are announced across the world….I’m still laughing myself at this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtB-NySVGgw
I never thought I would say this but Keith Jackson appears to have got a story right for once!!!
In 2010 he said the guy taking over was a guy from Motherwell with £30 million to spend. After yesterday’s revelations by the admins that there is a ‘black hole’ with £9m tax and £24m season ticket money unaccounted for it looks as though he has £33m to spend!!!!
Ask all the huns you know
What is like on skid row
Bought your taem for a £1
you can’t pay the crown
I’ll have ice cream and jelly to go
Lets enjoy the fun while we can.
Paul 67
What does it mean to be ‘shared’?
Is it a facebook or twittery thingy?
SPF
Barrach Obampot don’t need no stinkin’ Rangers says:
17 February, 2012 at 10:09
‘The question is, how can the Sky contract stipulation of four “Old Firm” games a season be relevant and indeed valid when one half of the Old Firm relationship has died’
Maybe the people from Sky and the SPL who negotiated the contract knew the state of the huns finances (of course they did).
And maybe they knew that there was every chance the huns would be liquidated (of course they did).
And maybe they knew that if the huns were liquidated the contract wouldn’t stand (of course they did).
And maybe they both wanted a newco huns straight into the SPL.
And maybe they thought that one way to persuade others to allow the newco huns straight into the SPL was to hold out the prospect of large sums of money, dependent on a huns of some sort being in the SPL.
That would be one explanation.
The alternative explanation is that both the people from the SPL and SKY who negotiated the contract are bumbling incompetents who didn’t know what was going on with the huns.
optimistic little soldier says:
17 February, 2012 at 10:09
I know the feeling. My wife left me complaining that all I thought about was football. Football this, football that.
It’s such a shame. We’d been together for 17 seasons.
Top of the morning to you all from a bright and breezy Fife.
We often malign the Scottish press for their pro-Rangers bias and in particular certain journalists whom we refer to as the Laptop Loyal.
Many of us have opted to get our news through the new media that has flourished in cyber-space.
One journalist made the leap from-hard copy newspaper journalist to blogger and he should be singled out for his astute foresight in the Rangers affair.
That man is David Leggat, giving it to us straight in his blog of Thursday, 18 November 2010, in an article entitled: “NEW ERA FOR RANGERS” wrote:
“IF the Craig Whyte takeover of Rangers goes ahead it could herald a new and totally different era at Ibrox.”
New and totally different……………………………………………., Wow! Prescient or what?
DeniaBhoy says:
17 February, 2012 at 10:14
http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?p=4992&cpage=1#comment-887355
Hail Hail
.
49,000,000 = 980 Willo Floods..
Summa