The Daily Record won credit for scooping the off-field story of the week, multiple investigations into singing by Celtic fans, but others are beginning to ask who gave the newspaper details of a police investigation.
The stories broke in an unusual manner, with SFA referee and policeman, Eddie Smith, named as the person who reported Celtic fans to Uefa and the SPL. The officer made what looks like an inexplicable decision after some confrontations inside Celtic Park, without mentioning a word of his concerns to the Celtic security people during the game – the normal procedure for such incidents.
Smith, who has Celtic supporting credentials, was named, providing the perfect foil to deflect accusations that this was some sort of Masonic conspiracy, which it was not. The entire episode is a classic internecine dispute among Celtic supporters, but with the comments made to Uefa, the story was parcelled up for the Record by a Strathclyde Police spokesman.
The Daily Record reported, “A spokesman for Strathclyde Police said: “For Eddie [Smith] to speak to the delegate after the match is nothing out of the ordinary. In fact, it is standard practice””. This is completely irrelevant.
Celtic’s retort in the same article got to the heart of the issue – why the police are speaking to Uefa and the media but not speaking to the club: “This is quite unprecedented as no issues were raised to the club during the match and the police didn’t inform us directly about their concerns.”
Control over media communications from Strathclyde Police falls to Director of Communications, Rob Shorthouse, (pictured on the left). Shorthouse, whose own favourite team have taken a reputational battering from Uefa in recent seasons, despite silence from the police, should be concerned that the force have given newspapers material for three days of screaming headlines instead of addressing the key concern about departure from established procedure. This has only inflamed a volatile situation between Celtic fans and officers on the ground. Shorthouse, who held a similar position at the SFA until two years ago, will be familiar with the sensitivities of football issues.
Perhaps a Freedom of Information request will reveal who leaked a story that laid out details which reflected so badly on Celtic. All we want is equal treatment, as a former chairman once commented.
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So the diet huns cant pay the players because they paid HMRC , how ironic !
Lennon n Mc….Mjallby says:
17 November, 2011 at 10:07
How can a sheriff tell if there are no catholics or Irish whom could be called fenians,are stood within earshot of a bigot singing?
Do they know the details of everybody in a stadium now?
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
The one with Sheriff Dunbar when Dryborough the Rangers’ fan was let off was the same.
To say that racist remarks like Black Bastard and Fenian Bastard were acceptable to all Rangers fans is going further than most of us who are critical of our bêtes noires would say.
I know Rangers’ fans who are thoroughly decent people and who would abhor the likes of Dryborough, but the Sheriffs at Dunfermline are a law unto themselves.
Don’t waste your time complaining to the COPFS about this latest case as apparently they just shred bad news papers.
weeminger,
Well, I would, but since you didn’t put a question mark at the end of your question …
will there be retrospective cautions and arrests for chanting “ooh ah up the ra” back in the 70’s, 80’sand early 90’s.
I think we should all “i am legendise” our homes ahead of the assault.
the days of me playing rebel tunes en route to games, at home or indeed in the office (with my headphones on) are long gone. i would say that i finally decommisioned
all my “tunes” around the same time as i had kids…10 years ago.
When i was young I had james connolly, Wolfe Tone, Michael Davitt,
Padraig Pearse, Eamon DeValera posters alongside all my celtic programmes and posters.
My room was an Irish history/Celtic shrine due to my Irish heritage.
I was the only one of my friends who had a room like this.
My parents never forced any of their thoughts or beliefs on me.
Celtic was in my blood like most people who support our great club,
its passed down without even a thought of wavering. My sons are the same.
But there comes a coming of age when you know yourself what everything is about and what you believe to be right.
I had done all the research myself (library) and took a side.
I’m scottish, my parents are scottish, my grandaprents are Irish and scottish.
we holiday’d in Scotland. we holiday’d in Ireland with my many relatives in the darkest of times. I had a link, not everyone has.
” If you strike at , imprison , or kill us out of our prisons or graves we will evoke a spirit that will thwart you and perhaps raise a force that will destroy you ! We defy you! Do your worst!! ”
“To subvert the tyranny of our execrable government, to break the connection with England, the never-failing source of all our political evils and to assert the independence of my country- these were my objectives. To unite the whole people of Ireland, to abolish the memory of all past dissensions, and to substitute the common name of Irishman in place of the denominations of Protestant, Catholic and Dissenter – these were my means.”
“They have done their worst, and continued to deny me even the privileges accorded to the common herd . . . but I am sustained by the consciousness of my imputed ‘crime’ being an honourable one”
“We seem to have lost. We have not lost. To refuse to fight would have been to lose; to fight is to win. We have kept faith with the past, and handed on a tradition to the future.”
“If liberty is not entire it is not liberty.”
I am proud of who i am and what i believe.
I am not proud of what this country (ecosse) is again becoming.
we need to stand firm together against…the only word for it is OPRESSION.
cabbageandbacon says:
17 November, 2011 at 10:13
In that article it states “continued use of Smoke Canisters” – I can’t recall one use of smoke canisters let alone continued use.
BT….
That’s him (Duntocher man as well)
I was once in a very one-sided ‘argument’ with one of his brothers……..
Is he in the US now?
rt Rev
I still have the tunes on my ipod and listen on the train going into work..
sets me up for the day as I am flying when I get into the office… 0))
Gordon_J backing Neil Lennon says:
17 November, 2011 at 10:20
Touche :)
weeminger,
Couldn’t resist that one.
But you are right – and it seems as though Hooivelt is playing well at a decent level. Still, he will probably want to stay and if we get our money back on him, it’s not a bad deal.
blantyretim
lol…maybe thats why im not motivated by
the time i get to work…(only kidding boss)
time to get the tunes back out?
Summa of Sammi…. says:
17 November, 2011 at 09:58
.
Songs Debate Ehhh..
I’ll Gie Ye Songs Debate..
How Many Beatles Songs Had..Woman..In the Title..?
Don’t know if you were serious but the only one I can think of is “She’s A Woman” which was the B Side of I Feel Fine in 1964.
Macca also wrote the Peter & Gordon hit “Woman” but not sure if The Beatles ever recorded it!
John Lennon of course had a posthumous No. 1 with a different song called “Woman” in 1981.
BB1
yeh Colorado…
Rt Rev…
I do get the train that starts in Larkhall after all….. o)))
Neil Lennon Is A Celtic Soul Brother,
I Got A Woman (Ray Charles cover)
blantyretim
get an fm tuner and fire it thru the tannoy
noo that would be a laugh
BT.
Cheers, thought that. I would have kept him.
HH
Gordon_J backing Neil Lennon says:
17 November, 2011 at 10:33
Neil Lennon Is A Celtic Soul Brother
I Got A Woman (Ray Charles cover)
True-forgot about that one-think it was on one of the Anthology CDs or Live at the BBC.
ok bhoys
of to my mates dads funeral ..
Jimmy Stuart originally from the Garngad but been in Blantyre for years..
Kit
take care today mate and remember the good times…
YNWA
interesting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.creativecoffins.com/
A question has occurred to me.
Given that some of the penny seems to be dropping among some of the better connected that their club is on the way out, it’s not really a surprise that their immediate reaction is to put the boot into Celtic at every opportunity. They are lashing out.
What effect is this likely to have on Celtic’s attitude if it comes to a vote among SPL members about admitting their Newco directly to the league? If anybody in the Celtic family (not naming names but a prominent poster on here and on RTC, a poster whom many of us rightly hold in a very high regard, posted yesterday that the league needs them) is still tempted to think we should vote yes, what will it take to convince them that we will all be better off without Rangers? How many more attacks will it take?
The guy who runs the Scotzine site is and alleged Celtic fan however in my own personal opinion he is as much a Celtic fan as Policeman who reported us to UEFA and the SFA – they are not!!!. Both Uncle Tims pandering to the Scots establishment and media. Ignore this site it is irrelevant.
Andy M – The Editor of Scotzine.com and produces the Scottish Football show The Final Whistle for Pulse 98.4FM. He writes for ESPN Soccernet and Life’s a Pitch and has had work featured on Two Footed Tackle, the Daily Record, The Scotsman and been a guest on BBC Radio Scotland.
apologies if already posted but this is an article in todays Scotsman from Michael Kelly. Would you believe it, the man talks the most sense about this bill!! He’ll never be popular with the Celtic fans for his time at the club and rightfully so; but its good to see the other side of the argument emerging from the hysterics from police and politicians
“Michael Kelly: Alex Salmond’s anti-sectarian purge has gone too far
Published on Thursday 17 November 2011 00:00
When football fans and clubs are hounded for chants that are neither sectarian nor offensive, it’s time to speak out
AS A CELTIC supporter I am outraged at the attempts by the police to get my club sanctioned in Europe. As a democrat, I am disgusted at the persistent attempts by the Scottish Government to restrict freedom of speech by criminalising football fans.
In all my years sitting in the directors’ box at Celtic Park I never heard of the police reporting the club to the football authorities. Yet the police argue their intervention is normal practice and now Celtic have got to defend themselves in front of Uefa as a result of this by the very police for whose services at matches the club has to pay.
Maybe Celtic should withhold payment for the game against Rennes on 3 November at Parkhead on the grounds of a job badly done. If the police had evidence of law-breaking, their responsibility was to arrest the suspects, not run off to some unelected body with their tales.
It is not that the police are unable to make arrests for alleged sectarian singing. On 29 October, during a Celtic-Hibs game, a 17-year-old Celtic fan was allegedly spotted singing “Up the ‘Ra”. He was tracked down and arrested at home the next Friday morning, held by the police until the Monday when, appearing in court, he was remanded in custody.
At the time of writing he may have been released from Polmont Young Offenders’ Institution where he was because it is claimed he sang a song deemed “sectarian”. It seems excessive. Yet this is just one of many incidents of heavy police tactics at Celtic which have enraged the official supporters’ association. The actions of police is going to make voluntary policing at Celtic Park very difficult. The relationship between fans and police was never very good. Now it could hardly get worse.
But it is not only Celtic supporters being pursued. Rangers’ supporters are suffering unfairly too and, in the erratic world that Paul McBride QC inhabits with other supporters of the SNP’s Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Bill, Hibs’ fans are now part of the problem.
Christine Grahame SNP MSP, chair of the committee looking at this bill, has been dragged into this mire and the case of Colin James Taylor, one of Tory leader Ruth Davidson’s Holyrood staff, continues. He tweeted about “Tims” – a word deemed offensive – and was ordered to withdraw and apologise, which he did. But that did not satisfy Labour MSP James Kelly, who wants him disciplined.
This whole incident shows the ignorance of those involved in this misguided anti-sectarian clear-out. “Tim” is not a term of anti-Catholic abuse. Celtic supporters refer to themselves and their team as Tims. There is a Celtic fans’ website called etims. Are Celtic fans now to be arrested for shouting this “abuse” at their team? Taylor’s post was not bigotry and was not illegal. It wasn’t even offensive. The same with the term “Fenian” – many Celtic supporters are proud to be called that.
This insane witch-hunting was triggered when Stephen House, the chief constable of Strathclyde, last year called for a summit to discuss sectarianism after a few unsavoury incidents raised the level of excitement at an Old Firm match. Our First Minister jumped on what he thought was a rolling bandwagon and announced new legislation.
However, it is my understanding that Mr House recently told Labour MSPs that his intention then was to focus on post-match domestic violence, not singing in the stands. If that is the case, the Scottish Government should confirm that it has received the same advice. If it doesn’t, the chief constable should make a public announcement to that effect and give Alex Salmond the perfect excuse to drop this flawed bill.
It is flawed, because police are currently making arrests for “illegal” singing and our courts are jailing people for what are seen to be sectarian internet posts, so there is no need to give them extra powers.
But it is fundamentally flawed because the new law attacks freedom of speech to an unprecedented degree. Chants about the recent activities of the IRA are obnoxious, offensive and should never be heard at Celtic Park. If those who sing them do not already know, then they must be told that they are not now and never have been part of Celtic’s tradition. The vast majority of Celtic supporters want them stopped. But one must accept that they are political. As such, the law should defend to the hilt the right of people to express these views, not criminalise them for their political beliefs, especially as, however ruthless, the IRA was not a sectarian organisation.
The position in which Celtic now finds itself, mainly due to Salmond’s stance and the recent police action, is a very tricky one. Its goal must be to avoid the fines and suspensions that Uefa threatens. But it is now being investigated for “illicit chanting” not “sectarian singing” as we all thought. What difference this distinction will make is not clear. One interpretation would be that, if the words used were not against the law of the land the chanting would not be “illicit”. This is where the bill’s wording is important.
If the First Minister, despite all the opposition and the warnings he has received, decides to press ahead with his faulty new law, he must list in it the words which he deems sectarian. Clearly, the revised wording of the Uefa charge indicates the lack of clarity over this. But further, both Celtic and Rangers fans argue there is a significant difference between celebrating the actions of current terrorist groups and remembering with nostalgia the exploits of the freedom fighters of a century ago. Thus the Boys of the Old Brigade and Here Lies a Soldier should be classified as folk songs like the Massacre of Glencoe and the grossly offensive but condoned Flower of Scotland.
Salmond should listen to anti-sectarian group Nil By Mouth which feels that his proposed bill narrowly emphasises football while the deep-seated cultural causes of bigotry are being neglected. More bluntly I tell him, get off the back of my club and its fans. These attacks have gone too far”
Gordon j @ 19:20
Here is the definition of BOP as defined in Scots Law the charge can be tried depending on it’s severity in the district,sheriff or high court. A football related BOP is normally tried in the sheriff court under summary procedure ie without a jury
Breach of the Peace
Source: Common law
Offence: When one or more persons conduct themselves in a riotous, or disorderly manner, anywhere, which alarms, annoys or disturbs the lieges (other people).
Arrest: Common law powers of arrest.
Notes:
This offence can take place anywhere i.e. a house, a public street or a private office.
Riotous: There is normally an element of noise, or ‘rowdiness’ or ‘brawling’ which is clearly causing concern to other members of the public e.g. swearing, challenging people to fight.
Disorderly: There is a more subtle element. The behaviour doesn’t have to be noisy but still of a nature that would cause concern to other people. Examples include: ‘Peeping Tom’ type behaviour, persistently following someone, delivering ‘threatening’ letters and ‘streaking’ or ‘mooning’.
To prove a Breach of the Peace the most important things to prove is that someone was Alarmed, Annoyed or Disturbed by the incident.
So this lad Jordan Rhodes, any good? Never seen him play. Is he actually scottish?
Also dunno anyone can advice me. I want to go the Next Gen U-19s game here in barca. I have looked on both Barca´s and Celtic´s websites trying to find out info about tickets and can´t find anything.
Anyone watch the U-19s much? Who should I be looking out for? Heard a bit about Paul George, the Twardziks and the lad we pinched Dylan McGeough.
Well done to the Celtic Trust, I will make a donation later today. There is as been a lot of division regarding the singing debate. Regardless my views I will always support and defend Celtic fans against unjust punishment.
Michael Kelly’s Fenian Army
Michael Kelly’s Fenian Army
Michael Kelly’s Fenian Army
Michael Kelly’s Fenian Army
.
Neil Lennon Is A Celtic Soul Brother says:
Yea it’s a Real Question..
How Many Beatles Songs Had..Woman..In the Title..?
Free Flight to Australia to Anyone Who gets it Right..(Make your Own Way Home lol)..
Summa
We might not all agree on what songs should be sung at our games, but since there is such a clear and present agenda against us, its time for us to unite, and fight for each others right to sing first and foremost!
After we win that battle, we can decide what WE decide is appropriate. But while its deemed ‘ok’ to sing certain songs in other grounds across the counrty, that are illegal, that are clearly offensive and sectarian, we need to fight for our right to sing anything we want that is not illegal. We need to press and change this agenda, to make people focus on what is actually legal, and have people who should have been doing something about scotlands shame, actually start doing something about it, and not just let them try to ‘even the score’.
You are either against the agenda against our club, or you are giving it momentum, there is no middle ground. Fight for our rights to sing first, then we can debate what we want to sing after we win. Because if we lose this one, we will most likely lose the right to choose what we want to sing, and be dictated to us what we can and cant do, by people who hate us for simply happily singing wether we win lose or draw……..
Ernie
Gefinor.
Well said Michael Kelly.
I suppose it’s too much to ask of our current board members to be so supportive of our support ?
Finally, a reaction from Celtic Park.
Neils speaks to the media and appeals to the Green Brigade tp cut the ‘Ra chants. So far so good. No argument there.
However, does he mention the sectarian singing from the Ibrox hordes at the cup final? Nup…
Did he reference the hypocracy of the Orange walks? Nup….
Did he comment on any of the real bile we have to suffer at away games or the attacks on Celtic supporters? Nup….
Thanks Neil…. A chance to redirect the heat back to where it belongs is missed. Purposefully? The more I wait for a supportive gesture from the club, the more I wonder if there is a hidden agenda.
Michael Kelly is a polished mouth, with no connection other than being a supporter like you or I, let’s wait and see how official Celtic
take the issue forward.
Seven Fishes Four Steaks says:
17 November, 2011 at 10:18
CAB,
*****************************
No Shit mate.
Did you read my post at all?
Had you actually read it you will see that i mentioned it was from *hitter today, and that it was down as a new article from scotszine on their account.
Auldheid – if you are about, what’s the rumour at RTC?
Brother Aidan,
Do you seriously think that the media would have taken anything that Neil had said in respect to Thems and faithfully reproduced it? Seriously?
Rather, do you not think that each and every one of them would have outdid each other in erupting in ferocious hyperbolic outrage and then gone on to further traduce Him, Us and The Team by wading upto and beyond their knees in Anti-Celtic invective.
Open Goal, Open Season………..
We are better than that.
The song choices of the Green Brigade might not be in agreement with everyone,,but i feel we have to unite behind these ghuys because there is a clear agenda being set here by not only the Police,but the Government( SNP ) and that agenda is to show our club in a negative light,and to try and even up the score with regards to the huns and there fans,,,you know the old saying as bad as each other,the bigot brothers!!!
We have to fight this ghuys,,,because if we dont the Celtic we know and love could soon become unrecognisable!!!
Hail hail
THE Green Brigade last night knocked back Strathclyde Police’s invite for showdown talks over pro-IRA chanting.
Assistant chief constable Campbell Corrigan spoke out in Wednesday’s Record Sport to request a meeting with the Celtic fan group whose songs have sparked disciplinary probes by both UEFA and the SPL.
Corrigan was keen to spell out the consequences if they refuse to clean up their act and the Green Brigade have now responded by issuing the following statement: “Over the past few days Strathclyde Police have orchestrated a media campaign to tarnish our group as bigots, as justification for their power-grabbing and the Scottish Government’s new anti-Football Bill – a Bill that criminalises football fans and the Celtic support in particular.
“Realising they face a challenge from fans opposed to the Bill, the politicians and police need a scapegoat and they’ve decided we fit the bill.
“Lurid headlines about our supposed ‘songs of hate’ have been followed up with a demand from Assistant Chief Constable Campbell Corrigan for us to meet him for a dressing-down.
“We have yet to be formally invited to meet Corrigan but we are happy to respond to his public offer with a public response, and to tell him in the firmest possible terms that we have no intention of meeting him and letting him wag his finger in our face.
“Corrigan’s police force have spent hugely disproportionate resources on policing and gathering intelligence on the Celtic support, and ourselves in particular, including constant video surveillance at matches and a range of petty harassment.
“Out of concern with the policing of football fans and the Offensive Behaviour at Football Bill we, alongside the other established Celtic fan organisations, formed Fans Against Criminalisation.
“On October 29 we held a peaceful and very successful demonstration in George Square to oppose the SNP’s anti-Football Bill.
“In what seems like a direct response, Corrigan’s police force have since acted against us and the Celtic support.
“At the match v Hibs that afternoon the police, with no regard for fan safety, waded into our section of the ground in an attempt to make arrests of unknown fans.
“Match commander Eddie Smith then made a complaint to the SPL about offensive chants and after the subsequent match with Rennes in the Europa League he made a similar complaint to UEFA. Such a complaint is unprecedented.”
The statement continued: “Campbell Corrigan has today been on radio shows, further scapegoating our group. We note he is also insisting he will be meeting Celtic fan organisations to tell us all how to behave.
“After the police’s attack on Celtic fans following the Fans Against Criminalisation demonstration, two Celtic fan organisations asked them for a meeting to discuss their behaviour.
Match commander Eddie Smith refused to meet them and his superior, Wayne Mawson, refused to speak of the events of that day.”
Michael Kelly
thank you
Bsr
I think Celtic are playing it correct for now. Wait until the meeting with EUFA and then make a statement. It’s more prudent to wait for all of the facts to come to light. Currently we’re dealing with speculation.