I was at primary school during the 1979 devolution referendum. It’s fair to say many in the Celtic community were suspicious of the SNP due to the hostile attitudes some of the party leadership had to the Irish diaspora in their midst.
Fresh blood brought change to the SNP in the 1980s, there were even overtures to Irish nationalism. Alex Salmond cemented these changes, broadened the appeal of the party towards new and multi-generation immigrants, and asserted the SNP’s multi-faith credentials. He also became close friends with disgraced Cardinal O’Brien (which is no reflection on Mr Salmond).
At the height of his political powers Salmond appears to have overreached. Something would be done about men shouting at football games. From now on only certain flavours of nationalism would be favoured, acceptable, perhaps even legal. MSP Christine Graham let the Scottish Parliament know, the problem was that Celtic fans were not acting illegally, so the law had to change.
The Axe the Act candidate in today’s Glasgow City Council, Govan, by-election, Thomas Rannachan has brought the consequences of Salmond’s largess to his door. The SNP are defending the seat but one year out from the battle Salmond really needs to win, his shoddy attack on football fans is set to undermine him. As an independent Rannachan may not win, but he has put the First Minister on the back foot.
George Ryan’s funeral will take place at St Andrew’s Cathedral, Glasgow, at 10:00 on Monday. All are welcome.
Sean’s book’s here, fill your boots:
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He giveth an he taketh away.
KTF.
hoopy-do,
I agree that is far more important but I have a more than sneeking suspicion that a lot of people who come on here, who are Scottish, would never support Scotland even if they were the World Champions.
eddieinkirkmichael
19:52 on
10 October, 2013
Eddie,
I would be astounded if that is what the act says and eve more astounded if the legislation i that regard alone does not fall flat on its face for a whole variety of reasons… and this just highlights the arrogance and indeed stupidity of the lawyers in this here jurisdiction.
Imagine the situation.
A Scottish Football Fan goes to a match abroad and conducts himself in a manner that is clearly and demonstrably in keeping with the law of that land. He then returns from his or her break and finds that his behaviour has been caught on camera and posted on You Tube, with the result that he is then charged with an offence under the act with the offence concerned constituting the behaviour that is regarded as lawful in the place where he actually was when the behaviour occurred.
That is a non starter for our courts because our law— our jurisdiction cannot and does not extend to foreign countries unless it involves an element of the offence here.
So for example, a drug runner who is part of a scheme which is designed to end up here or which has its base here can be tried in Scotland because there is a Scottish element to the charge which gives the court jurisdiction AND because drug running is at least nominally illegal everywhere more or less.
However, an act that is entirely lawful in another jurisdiction could never be successfully prosecuted through our courts and to even try would make the Scottish Judicial system a complete laughing stock.
Imagine the scene where you are effectively charged with complying with Italian Law whilst in Italy?
Singing some form of Irish Republican song whilst in Ireland … some may say it is offensive here but could it ever be offensive in Ireland?
Imagibe you go to a European Match and get pissed out of your head and assault a policeman say in Belgium?
Eh you may well be arrested and charged in Belgium but you will not be charged and tried here as the offence did not take place within the jurisdiction of Scotland or a Scottish Court.
Laws in Scotland ( and remember we have a fiercely proud independent Scottish legal system ) start from the basis that they are meant to govern and be the Law of Scotland…. not the law of Canada, Japan or Bulgaria where they have completely different and yes independent legal systems.
What is more, it is a defence in any realm to argue that the acts complained of are not a breach of the law at all. In criminal cases here you can actually refuse to plead in court and ask for a debate on the validity of the charges stating that the charges do not amount to an offence known to the law of Scotland.
Further, there is then the issue of conflict of laws– namely where there may be two or more jurisdictions are involved and the first issue is to ascertain which jurisdiction shall take precedence and which law will apply.
Again I suggest that is clear that if you conduct yourself in a Spanish Stadium in a manner which is within the laws of Spain, it will be very difficult to convict you in Scotland in relation to the same behaviour.
Now, I know what the Government may be trying to get at — If you go to a Scotland game in Latvia and behave in a manner which is offensive to your fellow Scotland fans and which would be an offence IF you tried the same carry on here– but I am sorry the Scottish Parliament just does not have the reach and stretch to be able to say that their legislation governs UK citizens whilst in Latvia.
That is clearly a nonsense.
Even more of a nonsense is the idea of an Irishman, Frenchman or Dutchman or whoever, who goes to a football match in Latvia and behaves in a way that is not unlawful in Latvia but which might be unlawful here, and who then comes to Scotland immediately afterwards on a three week works contract— and on arrival at Edinburgh Airport is the charged under the act!!
Edinburgh doesn’t govern Latvia, nor can it govern the behaviour of a foreign national who is in Latvia and then comes to Scotland.
Such a notion is bonkers– plain bonkers.
The only example practical example I can give you is from long ago when The City of Glasgow Licensing Board dictated that each licensed premises were only licensed provided they did not exceed an occupancy limit and so only allowed a certain number of people into the premises.
I ( and others ) went to court and argued that the licencing board had no such power as Parliament had given them no such power– and without the requisite power and jurisdiction they could write what they want and try and enforce what they want but it could never ever be the law.
And the court agreed leaving the board on its erchie!
Not only that, I also pointed out that if were to take the boards wording literally, then if a pub were overcrowded by one person when the police came in to count the numbers, then if the publican drew a knife and stabbed one of the customers to death then he would be obviously innocent of overcrowding his pub because what he would have in there was the maximum number of patrons permitted and a cadaver!
He may be guilty of murder but clearly innocent of overcrowding under these circumstances.
However, the main point of all of this legislation, independence or no, SNP labour or whoever debate is that you have a Police Force who by law can only use certain powers in good faith and as a privilege granted under the law.
Irrespective of where the Government sits or what party makes up that Government, that Government or its Police force can be forced to pay damages if it is shown to act in bad faith or abuses its powers by the hand of the Police officers.
Detention, restriction of movement and so on are fundamentally against the law of any civilised country and that is why the law only allows specially designated individuals ( law enforcement agencies ) to be able to breach those laws under controlled and specific circumstances.
If the Police force entrusted with those powers– and the responsibility that comes with those powers— are shown to have abused them, or exercised them in bad faith, or been involved in the abuse of proper process to the detriment of any individual– whether that individual was engaged in criminal activity or not— then the police force is liable in damages in the eyes of the law.
The ACT i s bad law, hurried law, unnecessary law, ill conceived law and most of all politically motivated law which is in many respects unenforceable and to the detriment of proper government and any attempt at a proper jurisprudential system.
But hey….. I am an opinionated Cowboy boot wearing ex practitioner who left the mainstream legal stage nearly a decade ago to go play the guitar badly and get my hair cut.
This is someone else’s windmill to tilt at………… though if whoever takes it on is looking for a researcher then I am game for a laugh…… maybe.
” Purple eyes…… in the canyon, Purple Eyes……….”
Philbhoy – Bring it on!!!!
20:32 on
10 October, 2013
‘Disgraceful, disgusting, but even worse, disrespectful.’
###
I am honestly at a loss to understand how you’ve come to that conclusion.
Was looking through holiday vids,when this came up on screen
‘possibly the worst attempt at a dive I’ve ever seen’ guess who?
Whit are they like?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r7vzo4R3YE
Anyone believe the SNP are coming out with these stupid laws etc.
because they are afraid to win independence?
Before any replies of this is a stooopid idea…..I know :o) and a heart HH
to you all.
Desertbhoy
That’s a shame mate
Thoughts and prayers
HH
Alfie 49
You described perfectly what you have now.
Desert bhoy
My heart goes out to you and yours tonight.
Hard times ….. but all I can say is life goes on.
If prayers and best wishes are worth anything … you will see these times behind you.
VP
Your holiday videos are weird mate
TBJ
Was you tube of beach I had been to……maybe boydichenko tripped over
a sand dune?
VP
Do you alwyas go to Tannadice for your hols????
Desertbhoy
So sorry…….happened to us also
Scotland under 21s win
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Oscar Knox, MacKenzie Furniss and anyone else who fights NeuroblastomaSinging some form of Irish Republican song whilst in Ireland … some may say it is offensive here but could it ever be offensive in Ireland?
I’m afraid I have to disagee with you. Anyone who attended the funerals of Ruairi O Bradaigh or more recently Joe O Neill in Bundoran last week will know what I mean. Armed gardai patrolled the aisles of the church during O Bradaigh’s requiem mass. Mourners locked the church doors when O’Neill’s remains were carried in. Armed gardai visited pubs in Ballyshannon throughout the whole evening of the funeral.
In towns in the cenral part of Ireland publicans are often “advised” by local gardai that the playing of Republican music might lead to difficulties with regards to licence renewal. It has happened to a publican whom I know well.
If a senior qarda tells a court in Ireland that it his opinion that a person belongs to a proscribed organisation that is deemed as sufficient for a conviction. These opinions are often made by observing people singing certain kinds of songs.
Not that you’ll read it in the newspapers!
Lennybhoy…Supporting Neil Lennon, Wee Oscar Knox and CFC until I die
20:06 on 10 October, 2013
IMO Sean’s Trust appears a fine and appropriate charity in St John Doyle’s memory. I would gladly support that choice.
HH
CRC
Prestonpans
Not always…….but I had a great time there a few years ago ,helicopter
trip an all.
Desert Bhoy, just read back, I hope things go well in the future.
VP
Broughty Ferry beach? :)
From MTH twitter
At 45 years of age, my Scottish Football interest/participation is over. I will only ever view from afar, this also applies to Celtic, sadly
VP, do you go there for the sandy beach?
Hear it’s what they are known for!
From Celtic gossip
It would appear the Scottish MSM have a new lexicon liquidation means no change and Guilty apparently now means got off with it HH
Dundee folk are awe right if you learn the lingo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLxLmFhROqY
BRTH
The Crown Office can’t get a conviction in Scotland under this nonsense Act …never mind anywhere else
Doc
Happy to say ‘YOU’VE LOAST ME’
It was barril beach in the Algarve( cracking name eh?) was surprised when
ugly mug video came up.
desertbhoy
20:18 on 10 October, 2013
So sorry for your family loss, Never an easy situation and have been there myself and it worked out in the end for us. I am sure this will be the case for your family.
Stay strong for your daughter. I always wonder how the woman deals with this loss. Think it is harder for them, but just my opinion and does not make it right.
KTF
HH
CRC
Feet up with a Stella.
CQN Thursday 5s overcome and Doc on CQN Predictor duties this weekend.
ThisisthelifeCSC
HH
CRC
desertbhoy
Just put your arms around her. A lot. You’re her dad.
Gallowgate Mad Squad
That goal by Agathe in the dam was an incredible moment. I remember leaping about like an absolute maniac with pure joy. We’d suffered through so many years of misery in Europe from the early 1980s and it seemed like it would never end. We would watch Champions League football on TV with a sense of longing, noses pressed up against the glass. That goal, which knocked the stuffing out of Ajax and effectively put us into the Champions League proper for the first time, was massive in our club’s history. It’s impossible to watch it on YouTube without a massive grin spreading across your face.
Desertbhoy, Only people who have experienced it with close family can fully understand how devastating the loss of an unborn baby can be. My prayers are with your daughter and all the family tonight.
Lennybhoy, congratulations on the brilliant job you are doing on our behalf in respect of the tribute to the late George Ryan. I think everyone who have already donated and those who plan to donate would readily agree with your plan re surplus money.
Wee Christina’s Fenian Army
Wee Christina’s Fenian Army
iPaddy
Was at the game …thought walking too close to coffee shops was taking effect.
Unbelievable.
VP, Dundee Utd are known as the Arabs, in the 60s and 70s they put so much sand on their pitch they were nicknamed the Arabs, the pitch was a sandy beach/desert.
I thought it was funny.
Hat and coat:-)
Doc
You are as bad as me….if you have to explain etc…..:O)
Men shouting at football matches —-Italian style.
Looks like there will be organized action re being offensive
Heard a spokesman for Brescia fans earlier ——————-” either they abandon their attempts to introduce thought control or we will force them to close every stadium in Italy”
VP, aye, it sprung straight into my head, should have let it fly right out!
Cowiebhoy
Re the big screen message..
When I contacted celtic on mikis behalf. . The girl phoned me the day before the barca game to get my credit card details and verify the message.
Its a bit like the transfer window at celtic park.. they love the drama
Doc
Dry (!!!!) Humour gets u nil points on cqn
Try some left wing … lying tosh. .. it gets the troll(s) more replies