It feels like rock bottom this morning and, as far as Europe is concerned, it probably is. The ties against Legia were our worst performances in Europe. Neuchâtel has a horrible 90 minutes, Artmedia was a 20 minute collapse, and we beat Utrecht comfortably at home, but this was abject over two games.
There are unfathomables, for example, it’s hard to know why a defence which was so solid last season is suddenly inert, but it will surprise no one we didn’t make Champions League football this season. The day Neil Lennon left I suggested it would be a huge ask and it’s proven to be.
We are less than two years since the high point of recent seasons, finishing ahead of Benfica and Spartak Moscow in the Champions League, but the decline can be traced slightly further back than that.
We had an 18 month purple patch of player recruitment, starting when Fraser Forster, Gary Hooper and Emilio Izaguirre arrived in summer 2010, continuing with the arrival of Wilson and Wanyama, and ending with Mikael Lustig’s signing in January 2012. We were bringing players in for a few million who were Champions League calibre.
Since Lustig, the strategy hasn’t changed, but despite signing a raft of players, for much the same money, only van Dijk has improved the team. Most are, at best, misfits or squad fillers. Things started to go wrong with the bizarre signings of Miku and Lassad in late August 2012 and ramped up last summer with the arrival of Boerrigter, Pukki, Balde and Biton. There are more, of course. Some, like Griffiths and Johansen are hitting the modest levels expected of them, but we’ve been missing the target at an alarming rate.
Ronny Deila has so far brought in a six month loaner. He’s working pretty much with the squad Neil Lennon scraped into the Champions League with last season. He’ll now know what you and I knew about the squad months ago. Most importantly, he needs backing from the club as well as the support.
He has to refresh the squad, try to clear out the deadwood, and perhaps accept that one or two of our reliable performers in recent seasons are beyond their peak. It’s critically important that whatever has been going wrong since Lustig’s arrival is put right. Stop haemorrhaging millions of players who cannot command a starting place and start finding value.
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SPFL preview on sky sports – from a studio in a championship clubs stadium !!!!!!!
Care to guess who’s ?
FFS
SOAL, sitting there now.
Doubles, Trebles, Europa Cup runs, how bout we just put a team on the park that can beat St Johnstone..
Doc
Give BT a call he is on the naughty step at least once a month
Love
ger57
16:43 on
7 August, 2014
Summer Football
What’s so sacrosanct about summer holidays? Fans going on their vacation would miss 2 games.
———————–
Valid point.
There is however a risk of loss of revenue for the drop in numbers over the say 6 week peak holiday period where at any given time a sizeable number of the overall crowd would be away.
I suspect that goes back to the days of pay at the gate as opposed to season ticket where the loss of day ticket purchasers would be significant.
#Rangers: HMRC will seek leave to appeal UTT decision in favour of Murray Group
cliftonville celt from belfast
17:12 on
7 August, 2014
SPFL preview on sky sports – from a studio in a championship clubs stadium !!!!!!!
Care to guess who’s ?
FFS
———————
Have we not enough going on in our own backyard to concern ourselves with that lot?
Robert88
Play Scottish Cup games in same period.
Much less impact if players on WC Duty.
When no WC or ENC make it a Scottish Cup summer festival.
The Commonwealth Games showed what can be done to bring in families.
starry plough
17:15 on 7 August, 2014
Doubles, Trebles, Europa Cup runs, how bout we just put a team on the park that can beat St Johnstone..
Correct,we are back to a blank canvas here.
Eventually, we need to become less reliant on the transfer market and rear more top quality players. Easier said than done of course, however the Scotland under 17s did perform reasonably well in the recent European finals in Malta. Looking to bring in 5 or so players each year is ludicrous (and now commonplace in England).
Ronny D has a favoured 4-3-3 set-up… from what i can see, in terms of personnel there are too many voids
C.Gordon
Matthews Lustig Mulgrew Void
Brown McGregor Johansen
Forrest Void Void
And thats just to complete a preferred first 11……. i fully expect Izzy, Stokes, Commons, will be away from Celtic in not too distant future. Of course Foster and VanDijk , more immediate than that.
livibhoy
17:04 on 7 August, 2014
You always get oldtim the one way, oh to have his spirit on the the field.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
the long wait is over
17:18 on 7 August, 2014
————————————————–
It’s not ‘that lot’ I’m concerned about it’s the attitude of Sky and their blatantly obvious support of 1 team in Scotland
Another couple of grand in their pocket when they need it most
While they can’t hide their glee at our current troubles
Ps I don’t pay for Sky I watch it illegally and it gives me great satisfaction 8-)
ruggygman
17:25 on 7 August, 2014
Mulgrew – not good enough has went backwards unfortunately
Forrest – constantly injured and quite possibly the most frustrating player ever
I’d hope that list leaving was a lot bigger
No10 strip for the indefatigable Old Tim!
C’mon Ye Old Yin in Green!! ;-)
HH jamesgang
Auldheid,
That’s true enough regarding the commonwealth games, I think with a lot of these ideas, there’s a fear of breaking cover and if it will work or make a mockery of the league for trying? I’ve heard some great ideas over the past couple of years and some mental ones also.
Ronny seems like a nice guy and can certainly talk the talk but can he walk the walk?
If the first couple of league games go against him, I fear he’ll need to think about tying up his laces.
—–
Jungle Jim
09:21 on 7 August, 2014
Metaphorically, the Celtic World is dark today but reality is offering beautiful sunshine so I am off for a bike ride. I hope some of our more philosophical posters are able to bring some light into the gloom of CQN.
Cheerio for now,
JJ
~~~~~~
My Dear JJ….
Happy To Oblige Your Request….
—–
When MON Warned Us ,”Get Used To Life In The Slow Lane”….
We Fondly Imagined Oor Smoky Ol’ ‘Trabant Deluxe’…
Potterin’ Down The Backwaters Of MittleEurope..
Putting Dukla Ruritanias Tae The Sword….
In Order To Qualify For The Filthy-Lucre- Group Stages…
Of The ‘Big Cup Of Vanities’…..
But Lo..! We Find Ourselves Stuck In The ‘Reliant Robin’ Lane…..
Being Overhauled By That Inanely Grinning Gap-Toothed Yokel,MWD….
Pedalling Furiously On His Tricycle…
And Mugged By Pub-Teams….
The Legia What’s-Its-Names……
On Their Village-Greens…
O Me Miserum….!
(As They Say On The Mean Streets Of Kilbowie..)
God Bless KevJungle’s Noble Brow..!
—–
—
Down-With-Bankier….!!!!
Canadian TV Host Michael Coren…
For New Celtic Chairman…
Right..?
—–
Maybe it’s just me but I’venever seen anything that makes me think that Mikael Lustig is a centre half, good full back and defender big risk in the centre of defence. This could also be me but the partnership of Efe and Golden Bollocks had as much with Efe to do as it did with Golden Bollocks!
Free the Efe One!
Robert Tressell
That downside of summer football ie us being less prepared for the Feb games after qualifying out of the groups never occurred to me.
And I thought I was an optimist :)
The positives have been given and I have yet to see a negative that is convincing.
A bit like the Yes/No debate ie
Things can only get better
V
Things could get worse.
The question has to be how much worse could things get for Scottish football?
Auldheid
17:21 on 7 August, 2014
‘The Commonwealth Games showed what can be done to bring in families.’
####
The Commonwealth Games showed what could be done to bring in families to the Commonwealth Games.
I can see no relevance to football.
“Freid Galza
16:13 on
7 August, 2014
We need to give Ronny much more time and resources before we can assess how good he is. We haven’t given him the resources as yet nor the time to make an educated decision on his future. Remember how much time we gave Mowbray and Neil to get it right, he deserves at least the same courtesy.
As for those saying we did well last year with same players lets just look at how well we did. We beat Shakhter Karakandy, barely and that was with players we now didn’t have available due to injury or suspension, we had Forest and Brown Injured and we sold our one proven European performer in Georgios Samaras. We have invested nothing in the team of course things are going to falter. Last season we got made to look weak in the group stages and we did not even win a domestic double so for any one to claim the same players did better last season they are living in cloud Cookoo land.
Clearly it is very much down to the limitations of the players we have at our disposal. Jock Stein could manage those players and do no better than Ronny managed in the second game, in the first game of course Ronny had much room for improvement. This season we did “worse” in champions league qualifiers because of injury, lack of investment and a much less unfavourable draw against a team far superior to HJK Helsinki let alone Karagandy. If Ronny can win us a double or even better a treble for me he will be an improvement over Neil Lennon. To suggest similarities with Tony M is laughable as unlike Tony there is no taking it on the chin, he learned from his error in playing an unfit Berget and he saw the same game we where seeing more than Neil ever did and possibly even more than Strachan. Ronny will live or die by his ability to stop that happening in cup games where one loss or draw cannot be tolerated after Ronny has had the chance to get substantial player recruitment. I expect us to recruit many players whilst not spending much in hard cash, it will be down to Ronny to make the most of the chicken feed cash he will be given.
If after this year we only manage to qualify from the Europa league group stages and say make the quarter finals of that competition but we only win the league then I will be willing to let the negatives have there day and get rid of Ronny but not before. Ronny must win 2 cups to this year whether that be the league and the league cup or the Europa cup or the Scottish cup in order to remain manager, and that is because he is not a Northern Irish Celtic fan or a Scottish fan so he needs to do more to convince the high expectations of our great club founded by Brother Walfrids Socialist Charity. But whilst we are still in 3 cup competitions it is far to early to demand his removal, we gave Mowbray much more time on the back of much worse performances. We overlooked Neils and Strachans poor starts (doing well in the return legs with much more money spent than Ronny has been given thus far is hardly a fair comparison) we even overlooked Neil’s repeated cup stutterings so if Ronny can get us a cup this year in addition to the league to me he will go down as a very good Celtic manager. I will say folk saying we might not be top of the league come November are living on another planet.
Keep the Faith. Back The team, not the board regime. Back Ronny. In Ronny we trust. When we wake up tommorow be grateful that we are still all tims, even the horrible ones who love Israel and oppose either “compasionate” conservative charity or left wing Socialism, things which help to give the poor a better life in Gaza, in the east end, in Africa.
Please donate money to SCIAF, please Join Friends of Palestine. Please undertake fund Raisers to raise money for the poor of our own country and those in even worse poverty abroad. Lets Keep the name of this great club great. Please support the demands of fans groups to give Celtic Employees a living wage. Please remember this we are the greatest supporters of the most socially just club in the world, when we wake up tomorrow that will still be the case, when the zombies wake up tomorrow their club will still be dead.”
An excellent post that sums up the Celtic ethos through and through. Ronny will get players in and he will make Celtic a force to reckoned with. He will make us a formidable force in Europe and I personally will be shocked if we do not win 2 or more cups this year. I feel he is going to be the best manager we have had since Gordon Strachan. The only thing that can stop him is the lack of man management of his assistant John Collins.
Turkeybhoy 16·32:Same old crap.Yes there are plenty of players who will come to the SPL.Hundreds of them in Spain,Portugal,France,etc,who are lucky if they gey £20,000 a week,with no chance of CL,winning trophies.Why do people like you keep bringing up EPL ?
You are talking nonsense…
A) why would they probably take a wage cut to come to celtic?
B) economics wise … How many £20k per week players do you actually think our club can afford?
C) What if THESE players turn out to be expensive flops aka Suarez, graveson, Ljunberg ect do we just put them in with misfit box with the 20 others bleeding our bank balance on a weekly basis?
D) how do we get rid of such players if we have to over pay in wages to entice them in first place ?
E) how can we entice players with CL If we’re not guaranteed ourselves .
F) are today’s modern players from abroad interested in ALL medals? Is that genuinely a carrot to dangle when the title is a gimme?
And why do I keep bringing up the EPL?
Simple really….
Them the championship and even the 1st division are paying more than we are for players in wages ….
The premiership is paying DIDDY players £40, 50, 60k per week….
Yes….. DIDDY players so how can we compete fir seasoned quality pros.
THAT IS REALITY.
THAT IS THE WORLD WE ARE IN
Its quite incredible what you read when you have a few hours off…….and decide what to scroll back…….
Neil Lennon is a coward ??!!!!!!!!
Charlie mulgrew is absolute garbage ??!!!!
Mon early forays into Europe were just as bad ??!!!!
Ronny should get time cos Lennon got time ??!!!!!
The players are absolutely garbage and there needs to be a complete clear out ???!!!!
Obviously there are huns involved in some points………remember he was detested by them absolutely hated……….lots of reasons of course……but mostly cos he battered them as a player and a manager!!
Charlie Mulgrew……seems the knives are out…….player of the year 15 Months ago……..pushed from pillar to post to suit the team not him…….not a midfield player blah blah blah…….tell the Scottish manager that then cos he sure performs well enough for him!!
Neil Lennon got time cos there was improvements slowly but surely….from the horrendous mowbray period.
Mon early forays into Europe were just as bad ……….mmmmm……doubt that….even trying to compare the two in the same breath is just so nonsensical I really don’t know why I’m even bringing it up…..
I’ll say what I said late last night……..who was on lawwells list??……it must have been a cracking list!!!!
*SPL MEDALS not all
Has heid bummer DD made any comforting pronouncements today?
would bet on the vast majority of familes who visited the commonwealth games having no interest whatsover of stepping inside celtic park for a football match (and to a lesser exetent ibrox too) and if they did, they probebly wouldnt want to go back
A Europa Cup Run? Hows that going to happen based on what we seen in the 2 games against the Polish team? Maybe if we get lucky in the qualifier I suppose it could happen, wouldn’t get my hopes built up though. We’ll be in a better position to judge after Tannadice.
Doc
17:07 on
7 August, 2014
Not at all mate. There is no need for you to apologise. Crossed wires or not I should not have posted it. I’m not one for taking the mickey out of folk but my post was doing just that. I only have myself to blame for it.
HH
A bit a tweaking with the calendar perhaps with a winter shutdown and an earlier start.
But lost last night cos we played like diddies and due to strategic myopia, not cos of a lack of natch practice.
HH jamesgang
Football fortunes have always tended to come in cycles. Even in small non competitive leagues like ours the major sides have had dominant cycles and down cycles.
That’s been the position over the past 40 years of following Celtic. I’ve had the high of Seville and the low of less that 10000 in the old Celtic Park. I’ve seen Henrik and I’ve seen Wayne Biggins. I’ve seen 6 goals against Rangers and sat and watched 5 put past us twice. Highs and lows has always been the case.
I sense now whether it a sense of entitlement or a sense of impatience that many fans are intolerant of anything that looks like a down cycle. That’s part of the game.
The governance of the club now is not that of the 1990’s. The limitations on expenditure are based on genuine financial limitations. The Championship in England is an expensive place to shop (Ross McCormack £11m?) and the further afield you go the bigger the risk. A £4m player , £25,000 a week player in the grand scheme quarantees nothing.
Folks may choose not to go to games which is their right. Wait until Sevco arrive or until the next up cycle. I’ve seen it all before so I’ll keep going.
It’s not great now but we’ll come again
The biggest question is what should we do now?
The Board – Too busy looking at their own bonuses. especially Peter Lawwell. After a period of time in office, troubleshooters like him run out of things to do that will help the long terms goals of the company. They look to get too involved and hence take over the day to day running of the team. Time for Lawwell, and his cronies and the ‘Yes’ men to go. Let’s be honest how many season tickets have been sold thus far? And of those, how many have been sold to kids for a lot less than an adult? If the board cannot see what is going wrong, then they are in the wrong job. We are heading back towards the pre-Fergus days if things stay as they are.
The Manager – Very naive. He is trying to get the team to play to his style. However, he doesn’t have the players to achieve this. The away game at Legia should have taught him something. It obviously didn’t. The same mistakes were apparent last night. He has to be on a very short leash, and realise that what he is trying to do just isn’t on with the squad he has. Too many managers have gone down this road before and failed. I think Ronny was simply the cheap option for the board. A Yes man to add to the ranks of the board, and a convenient fall guy for when it all went wrong. I have some sympathy for the guy, but he has to start to learn to adapt from this point on.
The Squad – Apart from losing our best players, and not having them replaced, there are too many players who need to be moved on because they just aren’t up to the mark.
Mulgrew played well a couple of years ago, but he has gone backwards last season, and even more so now.
Commons is a player I liked, but he just isn’t good enough for Europe. He is now 31 and time for us to cash in (though that would depend on the money we get for him being used correctly).
Stokes: Never like him. Never thought him good enough. His off field antics are a liability as well
Ambrose: No, just sell him
We have lost Wanyama, Hooper, Samaras, and Ledley. We haven’t signed anyone suitable as repalcements. I know Samaras could only give one good game in ten, but he was still better than what we have now.
Conclusion. Nothing is going to happen short term, but Deila will be hung out to dry if we crash early on in Europe’s 2nd division tournament.
The attitude that we don’t need to spend money since Rangers aren’t in the SPL was foolhardy from the outset and has cost us more than it has ever saved. You don’t need to be a high level business mogul to figure this one out.
We need to stop kidding ourselves. We have been taken apart by a very mediocre team in Legia. The type of nights where we beat Barcelona seem a lifetime away.
Hail Hail
Harald flatpack… bang on
Auldheid: ‘The question has to be how much worse could things get for Scottish football?’
==================
Why don’t we move to summer football and find out?!
Seriously, being out of sync with the big boys will be catastrophic.
Compromise – start the league in mid July.
Having a league running from March-November would before too long have youngsters picking clubs to support in other leagues. These leagues will still be running when ours starts and guess what will win?
Summer football would be a huge mistake and wouldnt change the product.
HH
Auldheid,
I’m not so sure Scottish football is that bad as people say, of course you can make comparisons, but the comparisons that are made are pointless as it tends to be compared to England or Spain. I’ve been a season ticket holder for the last three years and I’ve generally been impressed by the football played not by Celtic but visiting teams, where as I had the opinion that they were all shite prior to this within reason apart from Celtic and most of my friends in England slag Scottish football off something rotten, they’ve never seen a game of Scottish football to be able to cast a valid opinion.
The only things that could get worse for Scottish football is if the leadership at present isn’t punted!
I wonder who did the deals for Ander Herrera and Luke Shaw for Man utd.
Both signed before Van Gall was on the scene.
Auldheid,
I cant see full blown summer football working in Scotland.
1. Transfer window. How would this work – if, say, league runs from mid-February to end of October would we be able to sell/ buy players in the normal transfer windows or would these be switched to reflect the timing of our summer league calendar?
2. If transfer windows are switched to fall in line with the summer league caldendar this makes selling players to England – the board`s be all and end all – far more difficult.
3. More competition for leisure time in the better weather conditions e.g. play sport, Wimbledon tennis, Open Golf championships etc
4. SPFL clubs heavily dependent upon income from increased ticket sales over New Year period – festive derby clashes, friends and family, many based overseas, take in a game together etc
5. Signing targets from countries following the traditional season calendar would be unlikely to want to join, especially if these are players who harbour any hopes of playing in European Championships and the World Cup
Just some quick thoughts. I cant see summer football solving our ills.
I do think we should send our first team squad into a close season as soon as we win the league, ideally at the start of the SPFL split. This gets the first team back early for preparation for CL qualifiers and gives an opportunity to fringe players and development squad at end of the preceding season to stake a claim.
I have not read back. I presume there is those trying to apportion blame and those that want to address the issues.
I did not feel raw about last night. Too busy still feeling raw about Neil Lennons treatment. What we will see now is lip service and an attempt at PR. There will be no product replacement. Not with such a loyal …. I use that word deliberately…. customer base.
We are where we are because we the customers did not play along with the five way agreement. This is your punishment. I would say we but since then I have not given them a happeny. A one division drop was what our board wanted.
The lies peddled that we have a standalone policy when in actual fact everything we have done strategically has been about resurrecting the Old Firm.
WE ARE THE OLD FIRM.
They will receive my crtique and my ire until proven otherwise.
A one sentence statement is all that is needed.
Resolution 12 ????
Rory Bremner jokes.
Campbell Ogilvies unopposed te election
Joint shirt sponsors.
A 100 year old marketing model is not going to be ditched. Coca-Cola removed cocaine from their product. Celtic plc will not remove it from theirs. They would expose themselves. Hence the current strategy.
If DD released 500m of his personal wealth to curry some favour. I would still find this present board, the SFA and Sevco obscene.
…… Day after day alone on a hill …
HH