It’s a well-established fact that we don’t have Beckenbauer and Baresi at the back, so the reason why we chose to play so high up the field is the most alarming element of last night’s debacle.
Dedryck was bound to misplace a pass, or Efe was bound to misread play. We all knew this. Regret over the last time mistakes like this were made doesn’t mean they won’t happen again. So when the inevitable occurred, our two full backs were 30 yards in front of the line of opposition attack, with our defensive mids well into opposition territory.
Efe’s failure to cover Kamara and Dedryck’s pass were consequences of the main mistake of the night, which was tactical. We didn’t lose the opening goal because of a bad pass, it was lost because we left an acre of Norway unattended.
Ronny, you should never have left so much space at the back away from home in Europe, we’re clearly not good enough for such an open system, not even close. We’ve learned nothing since what was supposed to be a lesson in Warsaw, when the same expansive errors cost us. Molde played rope-a-dope football, they could have watched us against Malmo, Maribor and Legia, as each opened their home games against us in exactly the same manner.
It must be an absolute joy to face a European opponent at home who leaves so much space at the back, begging to be exploited. If we had played with the same tactics we used in Amsterdam I’ve no doubt we would have won the game – no one in that Molde squad would get into the Celtic team.
There’s more. After dominating possession and creating genuine chances, the defeat looked inevitable from the 11th minute when we went behind. Body language changed in an instant and Celtic went out like a light. I’ll spare you what I said at the time in case it’s misconstrued, but the evidence suggests there’s more to worry about than repeating the same tactical mistakes.
Celtic have nine months and one and a half transfer windows to get ready for the next Champions League qualifiers. There’s plenty of time to put things right, but we can’t sleepwalk into another failure. More immediately, we could be out of a cup if we don’t pull our act together this week.
The original Holy Goalie, our own John Fallon, will be signing copies of his book, and no doubt giving you his thoughts on current events, at the Supporters’ Club on London Road on Sunday from 12:30. All are welcome. There’s live entertainment too, so get along and check it out.
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The ole gum bumpers
TAMRABAM @ 3:36 PM,
Apologies for the delay, I was on the move then my post was lost in the immortal ether plain, where the pantheon of the Gods and Rangers Football club reside…
“do you think that the quality of player and coach at CP nowadays are fit enough to wear eveb a shrunken shirt”
Basically, I don’t think we do have the quality of Coaches at the highest level, it seems to me we have technicians, specialists in conditioning, player development, systems etc…
But top quality coaches that can select a team, play the correct tactics, then change them when necessary and motivate the players to put in a top performance…. Sadly no.
Hail Hail
Italiabhoy …. I can’t make up my mind about that …..
we dont seem to have a no 10 for that system ….like Valencia or Deportivo did … and that position is key to the 4231 system … SJ has the energy but not the touch of the vision…. KC, for me is a good player, but not a good TEAM player …. I remember watching SA play before he joined us, and when he came to us, I thought he would be good fit for the system, possibly even in that role … GMS should thrive in this sort of system as a wide player in the 3 as well …. but, it doesn’t seem to be working at all …..
I rate a lot of the players we have brought it (even, Ciftci), but we dont seem to be getting out of them what they show elsewhere.
Increasingly, I am coming around to thinking that RD may have to go. unfair to blame it on him… but as you say, it is easier to change one coach than 11 players.
The ole Celtic AGM, gum bumper on his half day from work ” Get they fecking staples removed from the Celtic View by the way, it ruins the pictures, so it dis “
QUONNO 4.25pm
How many of the present Celtic squad can inspire a buzz of anticipation by merely coming into possession of the ball? – See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/dont-blame-defenders-this-one-was-down-to-tactics/comment-page-9/#comments
The answer is quite a few, the problem, its the opposition fans who buzz in anticipation !
Sssshhh……..turn that doon…turn that doon……….the Rainjurs are coming
Tontine Tim
Tontine Tim
No, not “just” me.
Tiny Tim posted this shortly after my reply to you:
Tonetine Tim
“If that is all you want to focus on from MONS tenure at the club then i won’t waste my typing finger.”
TT
————————————–
However, thanks for a detailed reply to the points I made, and I’m happy enough to know that you do, in fact, appreciate MO’N’s achievements at the Club, but I’m afraid I didn’t put words in your mouth, you described the events at Fir Park that day, and said “Nae cheatin'”.
You might have meant that the cheating that was going on during the DOS/EBT years was not an excuse for the performance that day, but I disagree.
Up against a team playing players they could afford without cheating the tax man, and we’d have had an easier season, and the players wouldn’t have been as drained as they looked in those last 15 minutes. I was there, and I’d seen a lot worse performances from us there than that one.
And talking about the Scottish Cup, do you remember the celebrations when we beat Airdrie 1-0 in the ’90s, in a very poor game.
Why was that worth more than Martin’s Scottish Cup in his last game in charge?
Good evening friends
Quonno 3.57pm
You raise an interesting point – who gains financially out of celtic’s transfer activity?
There is undoubtedly strange activity going on there that goes way beyond poor judgement or bad luck.
Deila has signed 17 players, only 2 of whom – boyata and Armstrong – are first pick in what is a poor side.
We are told ciftci was our number one signing target in the summer. We paid £1.5 million for this guy who had already told Dundee utd he wasn’t signing a new contract. He was in the last year of his contract at utd and was going to be available on a pre-contract only a few months down the line.
In that context, and even setting aside his lack of pedigree and ability, £1.5 million was a crazy amount of money to pay.
Stefan scepovic – we paid £2.4 million for a guy who less than 6 months earlier had signed on a permanent basis for sporting gijon for less than 500,000 euros. That is some rate of appreciation in 6 months, especially for a guy clearly not rated by the manager.
Before Ronny we had strange signings like brozek appearing on loan when we were more than adequately covered up front with hooper, stokes, samaras and watt. Gershon, a complete unknown to the manager, appearing on deadline day and barely featuring.
Not to mention Bangura and balde- millions of pounds thrown at guys who genuinely looked like they’d never played football before.
I could go on, but i suspect that Dudu Dahan, John colquhoun and John park are responsible for the majority of our recent transfer nightmares. More worryingly, I believe these clowns will keep throwing more donkeys our way at great expense before said donkeys are papped off on loan to the darkest parts of Europe, earning even more work and money for the trumpets who brought them here in the first place.
Collum ‘worst ref’ in Champions League, says ex-whistler
A FORMER FIFA referee has branded Willie Collum the worst official in the Champions League – and told him he should stick to wearing a kilt.
Ex-ref turned TV analyst Erman Toroglu made his comments after a fiery clash between Galatasaray and Benfica, during which Collum flashed eight yellows and angered both teams.
Toroglu added: “I have seen some bad refereeing performances in the Champions League but nothing compared to the Scotsman Collum.
“He wasn’t anti-Galatasaray or anti-Benfica – he was just very bad. He doesn’t seem to understand refereeing. He should stick to wearing a kilt rather than a referee’s uniform.”
A collection of poor defenders. Centre halves who can be positionally poor, slow to react to danger and regularly give the ball away in dangerous areas. Full backs who push up so they are almost supplementary wingers, also poor defenders and continually caught out of position. Their strength is going forward, although their delivery into the box isn’t the best.
A collection of similar, decent midfielders, but whose ball retention is poor when under pressure. The manger has still to find the best mix to utilise the obvious strengths that they have in that area of the pitch.
A slave to the single striker but can’t get the support to him quick enough from the three behind.
Celtic in Europe under Ronny Deila and Scotland under Gordon Strachan. Two stubborn managers void of a plan B and cannot get the best out of what they’ve got. Both should be addressing the defensive issues by considering three centre halves. This would allow the wing backs to push forward to their hearts content without leaving the centre of defence exposed to the counter attack. Three in the centre of midfield, a combination of sitter, box to box and playmaker. That then gives them both the opportunity to get a striking partnership up front instead of an isolated lone striker.
For example, Gordon in goal, Lustig, Boyata & Simunovic at the back, Janko & Tierney as wing backs, Brown, Bitton and Armstrong in the centre of midfield, Cole & Griffiths up front. We have enough players in our bloated squad to fill all of these positions again with another eleven and still have a few to spare. When you can’t sign who you want you need to find a system that suits the players you are given, not try to put players into a system that doesn’t get the best from them either as individuals or as a team.
Our reputation in Europe is in absolute tatters
We are now known as a poor football team who’s fans can belt out a tune now and then
Snake-thanks for reply,you make a lot of good points,i think the majority of fans have lost faith in the manager,and by the looks of things,a lot of the players too.HH
Wee Jozo has a lot in common with the fenian lamp post, both were last seen in the Dam.
Paul
Have to disagree with one thing you said – you said our defensive kids were out of position that’s not true for the simple reason that we don’t have any defensive miss on the books let alone on the park last night!
Brown is a midfield runner – box to box type player – even at 30 he still chases the ball.
Bitton is an attacking mid that Ronnie has tried to convert in to a defensive mid. However he lacks the physical strength and the ability to read the game to play that role.
The first crucial goal last night was his fault. His feeble non attempt to stop Molde coming forward exposed our back four yet again. Sure Efe could have done better but he should not have been put in that position by his midfield.
Football ain’t rocket science – you get guys who know how to play the roles you want them to play and take it from there.
Mr Stein never asked a player to do something that he couldn’t do. Ronnie is currently asking
The two CBs (whoever they are) to be play makers and two attacking mids to be defensive mids!
The goal we scored last night came from a shocking error by their player – we made virtually nothing all night!
Time to abandon this half baked experiment and appoint a real manager not a coach who might talk a good game but certainly doesn’t deliver.
I could win the league as manager – anyone apart from perhaps Fat Sally would win the league as CFC manager just now!
It proves nothing. Last season Ronnie had the chance to win the treble but blew it in the semi!
Sure we got a horrendous decision but the fact remains we were leading 1-0 at HT in that game yet conspired to lose to a team with a fraction of our budget.
That is one of several key games that we have lost or drawn from winning positions.
There is not one game that you can point to where Ronnie changed the course of the game to our advantage – by either changing tactics or personnel!
His adherence to a system that we just don’t have the players to play is either arrogance or stupidity- either way it ain’t working!
Stop the bus now!
HH
Turkeybhoy on 23rd October 2015 1:30 pm
SHOOIE on 23RD OCTOBER 2015 1:18 PM
Turkeybhoy,
Sorry,but this site has been full of RD haters,since he was appointed.Never hear from them when we are winning.
*wonder if it would be the same if his name was Ronny O’Delia
croppybhoy, sadly I think you may be right…
I’m not of the opinion that they system is to blame. The 4-2-3-1 can and does work for other teams. The idea behind it away from home is that the 4 and the 2 sit behind the ball and you rely on the 3 and the 1 to score the goals. If one of the 4-2 go ahead of the ball then one of the 3 must drop in to cover. It’s that simple and I’ve seen it done by other teams. Our coaching staff do not seem to understand that. Time and time again we are caught with players out of position and punished accordingly.
Watched the game late last night. Thought it was a hopeless performance all round. The number of square passes across the back either in our own half or in midfield was the most frustrating thing about the game. We had absolutely no idea what to do once we got into the final third. We took so long transitioning from back to front, that by the time we got into their half we were met with an organized two line defense which we were never able to penetrate. By contrast when they broke from the back we looked like playground schoolboys chasing shadows.
There’s no point criticising individuals – it would take up too much space. Maybe this is the new normal where we are beaten easily by teams from lower leagues with fewer resources than we have. I’ve stood by Ronny up to this point but patience in now wearing thin. We have seen no improvement in Europe. The high pressing game we are hearing about is not working because teams move the ball quicker than we are able to run and we are left exposed at the back.
Shockingly inept tactically on the night.
*** LAST MAN STANDING ***
If anyone knows the current whereabouts of the following individuals would you please ask them to free their fingers from their current use and type an email to cqnlastmanstanding@gmail.com with their chosen pick for week 4.
Thoms Sellick
The Token Tim
Deccyrollercoaster
Celtic Soul Brother
Praecepta
Greenpinata
Thank you kindly
At what point in attendance decline does Lawwell review his strategy….. 15,000? 10,000?….5000?…less?
Tontine Tim 5.23pm
Absolute rubbish. Daryl murphy is Irish but he got plenty of criticism from Celtic fans.
Celtic fans judge the player or manager on their perception of their performance not on their nationality.
You had a snidey wee dig at Neil Lennon in the match thread last night, followed by a snidey dig at Martin O’Neill which you were challenged on, and now this insinuation that Ronny Deila would get less criticism if he was Irish.
I wonder what your agenda is.
Neganon2
I see you blaming the pursuit of Moneyball policies.
How about having a serious look at the economics that make Moneyball policies necessary?
I’ve covered it in this response to Greenpinta along with a way forward because it’s the economics that cause the policies so it’s the economics that Celtic need to address FORCEFULLY.
And see the pish about DD and PL doing it all to line their pockets? That is downsizing the business to earn more to line their pockets.?How bloody absurd is that? It’s no wonder illogical ill thought out ideas from the support based on personal attacks on folks integrity get nowhere.
Greenpinta
Last night was simply more evidence of long term decline.
Celtic are on an escalator going down whilst trying to go up. Standing still is an effort.
Anyone who has read Soccernomics will have seen the decline of the likes of Celtic and Liverpool and other major clubs predicted, not because of footballing ability, but simple economics.
Those economics force Celtic into playing Moneyball, but Moneyball will only keep us on the same escalator.
We need to get off but after watching Malmo and Molde I ve been thinking why not make games v the Nordic clubs the norm?
Molde and Malmo were not pub teams. If anyone thinks that try running a good pub team and learn about football.
Molde last night were stronger, fitter and faster than we were using players no where near our wages (think lower ticket prices) I can think of no Scottish team who could beat them based on last night. Yet they are not top of their league so what does that say about our standards? How can we reach those standards if we don’t compete against them regularly?
Also look at the way their clubs are run (Malmo have a membership scheme with one man one vote – right up KevJs street) and look at the approach of their national associations to developing their game. They also play summer football (in what passes for summer).
I’m coming round to trying to form a Nordic league including Denmark. Travel distances are not excessive and a transport market would develop to meet needs. In any case all away games could be broadcast live at CP or by CTV at home as viewers would be overseas from the games location.
That is the kind of vision I would like to hear from Celtic and where I do criticise them. They have enough evidence on a corrupt SFA to support a divorce (whilst agreeing amicable terms) and our departure would shake the Scottish game out of its comfort zone based on the money generated by years of hatred. Aka the bigot pound.
To quote Douglas Adams Celtic should be cultivating such a set up and saying to the rest of Scottish football. “So long and thanks for the fish” (and we have left plenty for you to compete over).
Things cannot go on as they are. There has to be a Vision and a workable plan to achieving it.
I’d ask DD to fund a feasibility study into forming such a league. Identify the risks the costs and the benefits to the game of such a set up ( which BTW could just as easily include Aberdeen or Dundee or Hearts – the downside being it could keep TRFC alive.
Get the Nordic leagues to agree it’s form then ask the national associations in each country to tender an offer to become the Nordic League’s administrators providing specified services to a specified level. The SuperFA would only run the Nordic Leagues. The existing FAs would confine themselves to international football.
Lots of hard work and hard thinking to get it right but without something of that grand strategical nature we might as well continue to shovel green steam.
Last night just emphasised the need to change the economics.
.
Mate said Last Night::..l dread to think what would happen if We do Qualify from the Group?”
I Said Yea: ”Yea Especially if We Draw One of the Big Pub Teams”
Summa of EuropaPubLeagueCSC
weebobbycollins on 23rd October 2015 3:30 pm
23rd October 1971
*saw a punter over here with that on his personalised licence plates, he also had a zombie pennant hanging from his rear mirror.
I see Messi is willing to leave Barca,
Over to you Peter.
Auldheid
Your idea of a Nordic league is an interesting one but, let’s be honest, what can Celtic in our current state offer these clubs that would make them want to rip up their leagues?
I don’t think there is a huge TV market for Copenhagen v Celtic, not hugely so in comparison to Copenhagen v brondby or Aberdeen v Celtic.
Celtic of 2015 is greatly reduced from Celtic of 2005 in terms of its season ticket base, reputation and pulling power. We are not enough of a draw for Nordic clubs to rip up their own league structure, sacrifice European football etc
Nor would our participation in a Nordic league enable us to rebuild and improve to the extent required to maintain, far less reduce, the gap that exists between us and Europe’s larger clubs.
We need to be better at exploiting the advantages we have in our current situation – a virtual assurance of league title and favourable seeded CL qualifying draws.
Unfortunately rather than exploit these advantages in recent years we have taken them for granted, become complacent, and we now reap what we have sown.
Snake Plissken on 23rd October 2015 4:35 pm
You called for Neil lennons head after every poor result
I note your now calling for Ronnies head.
Whats the criteria you would measure a successfull Celtic manager on given the last two aren’t up to your standards?
Auldheid- Of course it’s a no brainer. 25 million football enthusiasts, marginalised like ourselves.
The problem all along has been DD focus on England, probably at the expense of investigating the viability of the likes of what you say.
Aulheid
No doubt we could do with some imaginative thinking in the board room however in the short to medium term we need to get back to basics.
At any football club like ours – the manager has to be the most important person. We need a leader that can galvanise the team and the support.
Ronnie might be lovely fellow but a bit like Tommy Burns he isn’t cut out to be a manager!
We need to spend as much as we can afford to on recruiting someone who knows their trade.
Ronnie has been out witted by a range of managers and coaches that we could afford to hire!
Until we sort out the managers role then we will struggle!
HH
Going to aim a criticism In the general direction of Celtic FC for probably the first time in my life.
What the fook is John Collins doing any where near our club ?
What I’d give to have Tommy Burns at the helm. With Ronny D as his right hand man
Croppybhoy…
Watching RD last night in the dugout, he looked a lost bhoy, sadly, as he spoke a good game when he took the mantle.
Speaking it and proving it is the key, maybe a job too big too quick, for that I blame PL for throwing him in at the deep end with water wings on because he fecked up and needed a patsy.
Maybe it can be turned around but I think that is more wishful thinking than being realistic.
Our whole set up needs addressed from the board down. HH
the glorious balance sheet on 23rd October 2015 5:31 pm
Tontine Tim 5.23pm
You had a snidey wee dig at Neil Lennon in the match thread last night,
*nothing snidey about it, he threw a league away up in Inverness and only won it when naesurname was gone and mcsleekit was found to be wanting.
followed by a snidey dig at Martin O’Neill which you were challenged on
^and responded tae it.
also criticised Big Jock tae.
and now this insinuation that Ronny Deila would get less criticism if he was Irish.
*I was being sarcastic which is the Scottish way,
Only agenda I have is a winning Celtic team.
I wonder what your agenda is.
– See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/dont-blame-defenders-this-one-was-down-to-tactics/comment-page-10/#comments
Still looking for one ticket for Tynecastle next Wednesday if anyone can help please.
Tontine Tim-
I actually thought Neil Lennon did very well to turn round the mess that he inherited – a team the best part of 20 points adrift of rangers before spring -into a league challenging team in his first full season in charge.
All the more so given that he had to put up with Huns trying to ram him off the motorway, assaults by hertz fans, being abused by the then SFA president, and not least of all being sent explosive devices in the post by Huns.
And also having to overcome honest mistakes such as collum’s eyes in the back of the heid penalty award to the Huns.
So I’ll not hear a word said against the guy and I think it’s a bit much to say that he alone threw the league away up at Inverness.
You might find that on balance Gordon strachan had a worse record against Walturd than Neil Lennon did.
And as for you being sarcastic, well of course they do say that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.
We are very easily beaten by average sides and that does not auger well. Molde’s strengths were well known to us, so why does Ronny persist with the open doors policy at the back? The management team look weak to me, somewhat disjointed and resembling rabbits in a spotlight. You may not agree with Kris Commons-I loved the passion-but it shows all is not well behind the scenes.
Get it sorted Celtic.
Spirits were lifted today for me when two first year pupils wanted to talk Celtic. Their enthusiasm was infectious. Briefly they covered last night, my bright green tie and Kris Commons but their argument was about-I kid you not- Frank McAvennie or Jimmy Johnstone. Who was the most effective in the team? God bless you Bhoys, cheered me up.
RandomCSC
BEATBHOY
Having watched us home away and in Europe for over forty years I find it amazing that you should have to be arguing the point about MON. He gave me , and thousands of others, the best times of our life’s as Celtic supporters. He had initially more money to spend than most Celtic managers, fair enough, but he spent it well. Had they given him the same amount over the next few years we wouldnt be in the position we’re in now. Top of a crap league and delivering boring football. If only he’d have got a half decent goalkeeper !
HH
HH
I notice Kris Commons has apologised to Deila for his ill-tempered rant last night. I wonder if those responsible for the infantile rants aimed at Paul 67 earlier today will do likewise.