It’s a well-established fact that we don’t have Beckenbauer and Baresi at the back, so the reason why we chose to play so high up the field is the most alarming element of last night’s debacle.
Dedryck was bound to misplace a pass, or Efe was bound to misread play. We all knew this. Regret over the last time mistakes like this were made doesn’t mean they won’t happen again. So when the inevitable occurred, our two full backs were 30 yards in front of the line of opposition attack, with our defensive mids well into opposition territory.
Efe’s failure to cover Kamara and Dedryck’s pass were consequences of the main mistake of the night, which was tactical. We didn’t lose the opening goal because of a bad pass, it was lost because we left an acre of Norway unattended.
Ronny, you should never have left so much space at the back away from home in Europe, we’re clearly not good enough for such an open system, not even close. We’ve learned nothing since what was supposed to be a lesson in Warsaw, when the same expansive errors cost us. Molde played rope-a-dope football, they could have watched us against Malmo, Maribor and Legia, as each opened their home games against us in exactly the same manner.
It must be an absolute joy to face a European opponent at home who leaves so much space at the back, begging to be exploited. If we had played with the same tactics we used in Amsterdam I’ve no doubt we would have won the game – no one in that Molde squad would get into the Celtic team.
There’s more. After dominating possession and creating genuine chances, the defeat looked inevitable from the 11th minute when we went behind. Body language changed in an instant and Celtic went out like a light. I’ll spare you what I said at the time in case it’s misconstrued, but the evidence suggests there’s more to worry about than repeating the same tactical mistakes.
Celtic have nine months and one and a half transfer windows to get ready for the next Champions League qualifiers. There’s plenty of time to put things right, but we can’t sleepwalk into another failure. More immediately, we could be out of a cup if we don’t pull our act together this week.
The original Holy Goalie, our own John Fallon, will be signing copies of his book, and no doubt giving you his thoughts on current events, at the Supporters’ Club on London Road on Sunday from 12:30. All are welcome. There’s live entertainment too, so get along and check it out.
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‘We’ve learned nothing since what was supposed to be a lesson in Warsaw’
Not us p67 but ronnie.
Why should the biggest point about last night be Commons being subbed and his reaction after it ?
Are we missing the real picture here ? We got done over by a team who are 7th in the Norwegian League ffs, it’s not good enough. Somethings badly wrong and has to be addressed, soon
HH
Greetings All ( or should that be All Greeting? )
Stayed off the blog last night as I knew I would be in moderation. Earlier I had to apologize to ladies at my club for my bad language and rage at the entirely predicable away performance.
I had previously watched the Molde – Ajax game and commented on the fast breakaway tactics of Molde. I hoped Celtic had taken note. After about 10 minutes last night, I commented that too many Celtic players were far advanced upfield. One other Club jmember said, “early goal coming.”
He was prescient, but not remarkably so, as we are so predictably inept.
As a team, we lack basic football intelligence. There are numerous examples – both fullbacks upfield simultaneously, instead of pivoting off centerbacks, 11 players defending corners with no out ball possible, complete unawareness of back post runners, lack of movement to give passing options. I could go on, but you get the picture.
I note with interest that Molde are 17 points behind Rosenborg, who are bottom of their Europa group. They lost 3-1 to a 10 man Lazio last night, a victory put down to the Italian’s greater “football intelligence.”
I have previously read some arrant nonsense on here that Celtic will reach Basle. With respect, these posters are delusional, as are those who confidently predicted a minimum of 4 points from Molde.
I also can’t believe those that say no Molde player would get in the Celtic team. What are they drinking? Molde had 9 Norwegians, a Finn and a Swede starting last night. Did you see any
Banguras? Many of them were yards faster than we were. If you don’t have team speed in Europe, you are dead. That includes speed of thought. How many times did we see Molde players take one touch and instantly pass forward to a team mate who was already running. I remember one bad pass. How many did we have? I lost count. And that was AFTER too many touches, and far too many passes sideways to a player standing still.
Each and every European game, we have some kind of disaster, from Izzy at Ajax, to Efe against the Turks. Last night you could name the keeper, Boyata or a few others.
Lustig in post match comments said we were naive letting them counterattack. But why was that? Surely, we expected it. Why didn’t we sit ack and make them come out? They will probably play exactly the same in 2 weeks time. What are we going to do that is different? If it worked for Molde in Turkey, why wouldn’t it work at Celtic Park?
I am tired of the Ronnie Roar. It is embarrassing. It is simply not savvy to go to Norway and say, “we are here to win 3 points.” A savvy manager would say, “Molde are favorites – we have little chance.” Why fire the opposition up? Ronnie has no Plan B, seemed frozen with indecision at 2-1, and strongly reminded me of the doomed Mowbyay.
I am also tired of watching Izzy regularly crossing into Row Z, and our simply pathetic shooting abilities, pick out any one from sclaff, blooter, or balloon.
I also have difficulty understanding the mindset, “Ach, so we got beat. I’ve seen worse. I’m still a Tim.” Why allow ourselves to be doormats for 7th ranked Norwegian teams. Where does the decline stop? When we are eliminated from Europa League playoffs by a team from Luxemburg, Andorra, Lichtenstein, or Wales?
Realistically, we have absolutely no chance of winning in Turkey. That makes our possible maximum to be 8 points. Will it be enough? We shall see. In my humble opinion, if we fail again, then it is taxi for Ronnie and his management team.
Good Evening Folks.
OK I know we were completely crap last night but we can’t forget we are Celts!
Shelter are running a campaign just now which says that potentially 80,000 children will wake up this Christmas morning as part of a homeless family. To quote the advert, “one child waking up homeless is a tragedy, but 80,000 such children is a disgrace!”
You will know by now that myself and a group of others are going to sleep out at Celtic park on 14th November.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I will be with friends, I will be well prepared, will be doing it of my own volition and we will have some fun….. I hope.
However, we will sleep in the open air no matter what the weather, will have to deal with the rain if it is raining, the snow if it is snowing and the temperature if it is cold.
We will be sleeping on the ground — no air mattresses, or anything like that. Just the tarmac, a sleeping bag, a foil blanket and yer thermals if you have any.
We will be lucky because the next day we can go home, have a shower, climb into a nice bed and within 24 hours life will be back to normal.
But that doesn’t happen if you are really homeless. If you are really homeless you face the risk of attack, you don’t have a shower or a bed to fall back on, you may or may not have a job to go to and most of all you don’t have a roof over your head and all the comforts that we take for granted as part of a normal family life.
Last week I posted a wee Strandsky Story on Frankie. It is a true story and I repeat the link here:
https://broganrogantrevinoandhogan.wordpress.com/2015/10/18/frankies-story/
I first became interested in the homelss problem in early 1980 when I had to complete a project on the Homeless Persons Act 1977 at University.
The very idea and the scale of the problem horrified me. The solutions proposed by the Thatcher Government — bed and breakfast accommoation and homless hostels form which people would never escape was a real life social nightmare.
The whole problem was highlighted in the sixties by the BBC drama Cathy Come Home – about a girl who leaves home because she is pregnant — and it tweaked the conscience of the nation and is still horrific watching.
Today, we are returning to the 80’s — we really are going back to the future. The number of homeless people is increasing steadily and we have no government solution, no social solution, no humane solution.
It is a problem that has an impact on all geographical areas, all areas of society, and crosses the lines of party politics. It affects supporters of all football clubs.
So, if you have any spare cash please support me or one of the others taking part.
Every penny counts and no donation is too small as every single penny will go towards making a difference and trust me, when I say this, you never know when giving someone even the smallest helping hand can give them the courage to turn a horrible existence around.
I know this from personal experience.
So, if you can, please help , spread the word and do what you can.
Someone you will never meet meet and will never know will thank you.
I also thank you for reading and doing what you can.
Cheers
BRTH
https://mydonate.bt.com/fundraisers/jamesmcginley1
Auldheid on 23rd October 2015 5:34 pm
===========================
Yes, a tremendous concept. But I’d want the Dutch and Belgians in there, too – therefore it’s back to the old Atlantic League idea. Still a big money-maker though.
Twentyfirstofmaynineteenseventynine
I saw Broto at Fir Park one afternoon and thought he had found his ‘keeper.
Maybe he used up all his luck regarding ‘keepers having had Peter Shilton behind him as a player.
I remember having suffered the awful nineties, ’98 apart obviously, coming out of Celtic Park during Martin’s time, after another league victory in front of another full house and saying to my mate that I couldn’t remember the last time we had lost a meaningful match there.
Unthinkable just a couple of years earlier, so the attitude of some towards him baffles me.
Hail Hail!
The Glorious Balance Sheet
I think NL would bring back the solid kind of defending we got used to in his time.
However he left because of the economics that formed the policy that constrained him.
I think Celtic would be more than a welcome addition in those countries. Their own clubs face the same economic battles we do because of the limited market each are confined to.
So open up the market. Form the Nordic bloc. Bigger TV audiences so more TV income. Norwegians apparently are biggest EPL watchers on TV in the world per head of population.
Why wouldn’t they want their own clubs to grow and challenge the EPL in Europe?
I simply don’t think it’s possible for Celtic to upsize under current economic constraints that can be changed if the benefits are there.
Those benefits need to be identified and quantified. Hence doing a feasibility study but until we change where we play it’s all deck chair rearranging.
Auldheid
Lot of food for thought on your notion of a Nordic League.You say,I’d ask DD to fund a feasibility study into forming such a league. Just how interested do you think DD is in Celtic we only seem to hear from him when there’s a golf tournament at St Andrews.
Sandman
I thought about them but I’d let them form a joint league but be ready to amalgamate if there was a Nordic bloc to join.
I’m pretty confident the days of national associations running leagues in the way they do will come to an end given how corrupt national associations right up to FIFA have become.
Soukos
Interested enough to see if it’s feasible. He is a business man after all.
Celtic in a bigger market would increase their share price so even if it’s not for emotional reasons he is likely to be interested.
We definitely need fresh thinking & innovative ideas as the Scottish game and Celtic in particular seem to be sinking into a morass of mediocrity.
I think Auldheids post re examining the potential of a North Atlantic League is worthy of consideration. It may well prove not to be viable , other Associations may not be interested etc. However the same can be said for every idea or concept and if you start by throwing cold water on every suggestion then nothing will happen and the decline will continue.
This blog has a certain if limited amount of clout, if there was enough of a concensus here, it might be possible to effectively lobby the Club to set up a think tank, involving Supporters Representatives to examine all aspects of the Club’s future and to come up with a few innovative suggestions which may well include a variation of Auldheid’s idea.
It’s a massive long shot, I know but great Oaks grow from little acorns and we have absolutely nothing to lose.
Auldheid,
Any idea which gets us out of here has to be explored.
Watching that first goal again is just painful.
Most goals involve a mistake somewhere. When they come from that far back they are likely to contain more than one.
That goal had about 10 mistakes in it.
Boyata too far forward and plays a poor pass.
Izzy too far forward given Lustig’s position.
Brown/Bitton – one of them has to be further back (particularly given how far forward Boyata is).
Bitton gets back and just needs to stay goal side of the player on the ball. Instead runs across the player, making a poor attempt at a tackle, taking himself out of the game and leaving the Molde player in space.
Brown initially goes with Kamara, then leaves him to close the space Bitton has left open.
Ambrose body shape all wrong – doesn’t see Kamara making the run.
Gordon beaten at near post.
Lot of criticism of coaching and tactics today.
Just how much coaching and direction should highly paid players require?
Craig Gordon getting off light in all 3 goals in my opinion.
corkcelt on 23rd October 2015 7:01 pm
it might be possible to effectively lobby the Club to set up a think tank, involving Supporters Representatives t –
Problem is just as managements with work’s councils, celtic would only accept ideas that suits the suits.
See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/dont-blame-defenders-this-one-was-down-to-tactics/comment-page-10/#comment-2702608
I do not care if we win, lose or draw.
What the Hell difference does THAT make.
I only know that once again there was a show;
& the famous Glasgow Celic were right there in the middle of it.
Just one more chapter in the unbelievable rollercoaster that is Celtic Football Club.
As proud today as in 1967.
Is it safe to come on here yet?
Paul, For a long time now some folks have been suggesting that there a problem between the coaching staff and some senior pros.
Kris Commons brought that out into the public eye last night. He didn’t just show no respect for the coaching staff by his actions. He showed comprehensive and public disrespect for them.
There is a most definitely a problem with senior pros. IMHO
Commons’s apology was unconvincing, and significantly included no personal apology to the Ronny, and the two Johns. We all saw that JK and JC were literally bawled at by a senior pro in public and in front of colleagues. This was not a shirt flung down and a march up the tunnel. This was something much more serious and the manager should stick KC in the development squad for good. We all know how this works, all the rest of the team are watching to see what RD does and if he doesn’t impose HIS authority now, then he is finished – regardless of tactics and results. MON did it to Bobo, WGS did it to Aiden Mcgeady and Jock did it to Jinky – all because they knew what was at stake. I’m not sure if Ronny gets it and I think in these scenarios he is not best served by his two assistants. Collins has been through this at Hibs and got sacked, while John Kennedy is the junior coach and a little out of his depth (on this matter anyway). He seems to want to wait for JC or RD to take the lead. That’s how it seems to me.
The “crime” Commons endured was being subbed with 15 minutes left in a tie that was already lost.
Really? It seems very clear that Commons harbours other grievances and that his petulence (NOT passion) last night was about much more than being subbed and the team losing.
In addition, if that is how one of the senior pros reacted at being subbed, then we need look no further for an explanation as to why heads go down on 11 minutes when we concede the first goal. We had the same attitude and outcome against Malmo, but it is far too simplistic just to blame tactics and excuse players.
Commons response after Malmo when asked about RD’s comment that Celtic players seemed scared to get the ball was just as telling IMHO.
Scott Brown is the official captain, but it seems to me that others think that they have more influence in the dressing room.
As for the “tactics and not the players” stuff…well I’m unconvinced.
If Dedryck doesn’t kick the ball to an opponent at the first goal.
If Efe was remotely positionally aware of where he was in relation to the scorer – at any time.
If Craig did what any goalie is supposed to do as player comes in front he side to shoot – cover his near post.
If the corners/crosses that led to the second goal were actually dealt with properly and not simply headed straight back to the opposition.
If Lustig took responsibility at the back post for the third goal.
If, if, if…
The effectiveness of tactics can only be assessed if they are implemented with conviction by a group of players who are all committed to the cause, and who are all capable of doing what is asked of them.
Our comparative success against weaker teams is less about some tactics that sometimes work and more about the quality of our opposition.
Our faults and dissension matter less when we face most SPFL teams.
Opinions CSC
Nothhebus…
Craig Gordon was doing a grand job whilst he had a defence in front of him that he had some form of confidence in, at the moment he hasn’t.
We have two fullbacks with wanderlust, leaving two central defenders out in a limb that hardly know each other… Not a good mix.
Everyman and his dug knows how we play, for me it’s down to a manager that wasn’t/isn’t the person that should be managing our team.
No offence to RD but surely our board took the cheap option and my feck it’s costing them in Europe.
Then again, I’m sure PL’s bonus will still be enough for me or you to retire on!
Scottish football died a long time ago, we are heading towards a part time league, and it’s not Celtic’s fault.
I’ve posted that before over the years but no one really cares :o)
Only way we change this is if Celtic buy a bankrupt club down south and rebrands it.
In the meantime we have to cap our weekly wage at say £10k, reduce season tickets by £100 and just suck it up.
RWE on 23rd October 2015 7:25 pm
Does the Commons’ outburst simply highlight the folly of appointing an assistant coach with a previous in dressing room disharmony.
The same cack handed thinking that spends millions on injury prone players.
The trouble is much deeper than a player having a hissy fit.
sipsini on 23rd October 2015 7:30 pm
——————–
Craig Gordon made some real clangers last season as well. He’s not as good as some on here think he is.
Plus VVD also played in some howler games but again history has been rewritten.
sipsini
CG was hopeless at the first goal, might have got the second and poor at the third.
Regardless of whose in front of him, I expect my keeper to makes saves.
Not sure how PL bonus has a bearing on poor positioning from our keeper.
quonno on 23rd October 2015 7:15 pm
Lot of criticism of coaching and tactics today.
Just how much coaching and direction should highly paid players require
– ——-
Exactly. Most of the problems last night were down to poor decision making or lack of awareness.
I think it is a bit insulting that a team which has beaten BIG spending Fenerbache, drawn with mighty Ajax and beaten world renowned Celtic, is getting very little credit. And certainly unfair to refer to them as a pub team.
No matter how much we contributed to our own downfall, they were good enough to capitalise.
RWE 7:25
Lustig was hung out to dry at the third goal. We had four players beyond the six yard box on the left side, schoolboy stuff. There was nobody defending the middle so Lustig came across. That left a man open on the right side.
Paul67 et al
I was one of the more optimistic on here last night, (based on some promise from the first two games) predicting that we could score one or two goals and a possible victory. I didn’t spell out the proviso, shouldn’t need to, ‘if we are organised and concentrate for ninety minutes’. Well we did score a goal, one that could have got us back into it had we shown some simple football intelligence. If there is a minute to go grab the ball and run back to your own half, not if there are twenty minutes or so. Kris Commons thought otherewise and cost us a goal. Pointless going over the performance, it has been well covered on here
Wonder how things are today on Ajax Quick News?…like Celtic they really are on the back foot in this group. That late goal will in Turkey will hurt.
They have 2 points from three games and joint bottom of the group with Celtic with a trip to Glasgow to come.
How will it all play out? How about this…
Celtic are effectively out unless we can find some home form. Let’s assume we can somehow win our two home games. You would not fancy us getting anything in Turkey so we’d finish on 8 points.
Ajax could also win their two home games but lose in Glasgow – 8 points.
If Molde get a draw at home to Fenerbahce but lose in Glasgow and Amsterdam. 8 points.
The Turks draw in Norway, lose in Amsterdam and beat Celtic. 8 points.
We might need to win our home matches by a few goals to go through.
Down in the mouth Celtic and Ajax have two home games while the Norwegians and Turks have two away games to play. So it’s still all the play.
GLENDALYSTONSILS on23RD OCTOBER 2015 4:18 PM
SIPSINI on 23RD OCTOBER 2015 4:03 PM
LEFTCLICKTIC…
as for izzy, I would fit him with an elasticicated rope tied to the corner flag that will only allow him upto the halfway line in Euro
—————
I’d have fired him out a cannon over the north sea. A life jacket and thon whistle ensuring a trawler pickup ending in him playing 4th tier English fitba ……which is where he’ll be in 2yrs. Never recovered from the leg break. Shame.
SuperSutton
I thought they were a very well organised, fit team.
It’s strange that apparently they were a pub team and at the same time a team we were wrong to attack against!
The Huddle…
All players make howlers now and again, goalkeeping wise a settled defence in front Instills confidence, when a keeper makes a faux pas we tend to remember them more.
Notthebus…
CG, did make some saves that if he hadn’t the score could have been worse.
Personally, I wouldn’t give pass marks to any of our team, which brings me to ask why?
Telly time for me, corrie then eastenders:)
Lawwell really does regard us as intellectually challenged. “Right we were shite again. I know, let’s get one of the few players the fans admire out to ask for loyalty. Naw, not Boyata, get Griffiths. Oh, and remind Commons about breach of contract etc. A grovelling public apology from him please. Anything to distract that fan base with the attention span of a gnat from the ever evolving shambles of my stewardship of the club.” Righto Pedro, that one from your playbook works a treat every time. And there have been so many of those times under you to perfect it.
Winning Captains –
if things did pan out as you predict wouldn’t we be through with a 2-0 win against Molde? (we’d have won the head-to-head’s against Molde and Ajax so neither of them could finish above us?
But please don’t take this as me being optimistic that we’ll qualify. Based on last night we may yet finish on 2 points!
Good Evening.
Neil Doncaster has been out and about today, saying how good things are for the Scottish game just now. Here is my take on it.
https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/2015/10/23/the-doncaster-benchmark/
And in case of interest, here is my view on last night’s abysmal showing, and what could happen next.
https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/2015/10/23/all-too-commons-complaints/
Enjoy your Friday night!
Winning C
Loving your optimism but doubting your sanity!
Molde are set up to defend and hit on the break – does last night ring a bell?
Likewise Ajax will prefer to play at CP because they will play the same way that Molde will do.
Everyone and their wee brother know that we don’t have a plan B and will play the same way we did last night.
Malmo proved that even if we get off to a two goal start that we are so fragile that we can still throw away that advantage!
Should we lose the first goal the players will jack it in as they did last night -it’s so predictable that’s it’s unreal but likely to come to pass!
HH
THE_HUDDLE on 23RD OCTOBER 2015 7:31 PM
Scottish football died a long time ago, we are heading towards a part time league, and it’s not Celtic’s fault.
I’ve posted that before over the years but no one really cares :o)
Only way we change this is if Celtic buy a bankrupt club down south and rebrands it.
In the meantime we have to cap our weekly wage at say £10k, reduce season tickets by £100 and just suck it up.
—————————————————
Appreciate you’re attempting to come up with creative solutions, but..
When we buy this bankrupt club down south, do we get it’s history?
Are we still Celtic?
What do we do with the old Scottish club?
a bit early, but I’m listening to it, and when something is this good, it has to be shared ….
charles bradley’s got the love …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgnQYvzRDiQ
I’m surprised that anyone is surprised by last night’s debacle. We are incapable of defending against decent opposition.