News that Hearts are set to go into administration today will give Scottish football has yet another morality lesson to consider, but this time, there will be no pleas for rule changes, no lobbying by the massed ranks of the media for other clubs to ‘do the right thing for Scottish football’, as opposed to the actual right thing. Hearts will face their fate with a straight bat.
This is an unusual football insolvency. Normally clubs go into administration when they cannot cut costs quickly enough to satisfy a creditor but on this occasion it was the way the club’s debt was structured which caused the problem.
While Celtic have long term loans with fixed repayment terms stretching years into the future, Hearts owed money to their own shareholders, most of which was repayable on demand (as almost all non-term loan bank borrowing is). If Hearts shareholder-creditors had issued loans instead of an overdraft, as long as the club continued to make repayments administration would not be on the table.
Ukio Bankas and UBIG, once both controlled by Vladimir Romanov now both insolvent, extended generous credit to the club without the formalities of an agreed repayment schedule. This informality led to their ultimate downfall.
I’ve read interesting views elsewhere that the absence of Rangers International from the SPL has claimed a further victim but there is no evidence to suggest that RI FC playing in the SPL would have sufficiently supported the Lithuanian property and investment market to prevent the collapse of the country’s banking system.
As far as we are concerned it is business as usual but there could be a crunch coming. All we can do is look after Celtic (principally by buying season tickets, never underestimate how important this is) and let nature take its course. If the crunch comes to Kilmarnock (I know, how would this be possible with a sharp kid like Michael Johnston in charge?), St Mirren, Motherwell and others, the game here needs to come up with something more radical than a unitary league body. Any ideas? I’ve one.
You can buy Willie Wallace’ autobiography below:
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Blinkin’ phone….
S Korea v Iran Eurosport 2, SK can qualify with a win.
Hi Paul67,
“I’ve read interesting views elsewhere that the absence of Rangers International from the SPL has claimed a further victim but there is no evidence to suggest that RI FC playing in the SPL would have sufficiently supported the Lithuanian property and investment market to prevent the collapse of the country’s banking system
So true…
Hearts average attendance dropped by 200 per game hardly the game changer I would suggest.
Kayal @ 13.04
“Parkhead defender Efe Ambrose, meanwhile, is a £4million target for Besiktas. The Turkish giants placed the Nigerian under scrutiny during the Confederations Cup triumph over Tahiti.”
If there is any truth in this, the £4million will now be £4.
A total liability. Get rid.
Kayal33
“Parkhead defender Efe Ambrose, meanwhile, is a £4million target for Besiktas. The Turkish giants placed the Nigerian under scrutiny during the Confederations Cup triumph over Tahiti.”
I hope not under too much scrutiny he was gash!
Here is a quote I want y’all to remember ‘top teams don’t sell their best players’.
So Hooper and big Vic are staying. End of.
Of course your top player can go, a player is a player and that’s that, but you don’t sell your top 2 or 3. That’s just unheard of for a top European club. What would happen next year if we got another Vic and Hoops? Sell them too? Where does that lead to? Where is it gonna all end up?
didgery7733 @didgery7733 22m
@celticfc which club allowed itself to be cheated out of millions of pounds & never raised a single question against the fraudsters or sfa?
Animal Kingdom is 2/1 against with Coral telephone betting, but it won’t last long.
Scotzine @scotzine 4m
For anyone wanting to rad the full report http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/assets/files/pdf/appeals/esc_bulletins/2013/apr_may.pdf …
from page 25 onwards
A Stor Mo Chroi:
“The Battered Bunnet
The money owed to MIH by Whyte’s Rangers is likely to be rental for the car park, a total of £278K being owed to MIH at the time of the Admins being appointed.
Do you know that for a fact?”
—————
I know for a fact that it is likely to be….
Otherwise, that was a belter of post that describes the quandary faced by everyone in Scottish football who wants a virtuous game. The pity is that none of them are in positions of authority at SFA.
I’ve been fairly active on the issue as perhaps you know. Auldheid, Paul67, many others have been very persuasive and articulate. The influence of that was seen last year when the 5 Way Agreement was re-written 3 times as each iteration was rejected in turn by the clubs at large.
The SFA office bearers placed their fundamental purposes secondary to saving Rangers. The SFA members (the clubs) put them right on that when the decisions were made.
You are right though in that there is a battle weariness abroad now. The SFA office bearers remain at Hampden, flicking the fingers at the fans. The clubs chose to re-elect a President who by any standard has no place in the Game.
I don’t quite know where to go with that.
The Battered Bunnet
13:05 on
18 June, 2013
I’m not sure we did all know that. I think we all suspected it, what evidence we had pointed to it but what Charlotte has done is produce documentary evidence making it concrete. With some, but by no means all, of it unprecedented.
GREEN LANTERN
As long as it lasts the mile…..
Dexter
On a Tuesday as well…zoomer..
THE BATTERED BUNNET
I remain hopeful that the clubs kept Ogilvie in place so that he will still be around,and therefore answerable,when the s..t hits the fan.
And as we know,it is the hope which is the killer…..
new zombie shop latest :
Sign on window says ‘Rangers 1872’ why ? Who are these Rangers ?
I didn’t think shop numbers went that high on Ann Street !
BMCUW
seen your wee video thingy yesterday about Garvaghy Road – if you let them get away with kettling thats what you end up with !!! Brought back memories of being dragged of manys a road when younger by friendly neighbourhood Trevors !!!!!!
Very good Paul …..
But the Lithuaninan property and investment market needs (needed) a strong Rangers -everyone knows that!
Re -Celtic “debt” and long term loans -I share BMCUWP’s query with that-I’m sure I read we were more or less “debt free”- ?
PS- Sorry if you’ve already responded to that -I’ve just logged on and not had a chance to read forward through all today’s comments.
.
Yessssssss..
We are Going to Brazil..Yessssss..
Summa
benjybhoy mul
12:47 on 18 June, 2013
I’ve renewed my expensive season book yet again (19 years on the bounce) but I’m doing this more out of love of the club than anything else.
I want SEVCO back as soon as possible and I want a strong Hearts too.
I want a strong league where the unexpected can happen, where we’ll be challenged, a league with some real excitement.
======================================
You may also want someone to sit with you, benjy?
The Battered Bunnet
The CF release on the UEFA licence are not of themselves the smoking gun, but they point to where it is – Nyon.
I came across this whilst looking for something I think I remember Regan saying on the licence and on seeing the date and what had gone on before I thought “that was timely”
Regan and Ogilvie visited UEFA in October 2011 to discuss Scottish Football matters. Would you believe it?
http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/association=sco/news/newsid=1692611.html
Cliftonville celt from Belfast
Unrelated, but after the CL draw on Monday, do you know what date Cliftonville play their first qualifier ?
Marti
BBhoy. @ 13 06 .
Firenze is a long way from me .. Any knowledge I have is from being a tourist
Firenze is a great city . Beautiful —–the Duomo/ the Uffizi/ the Medici things . It will be packed and hot in August .
Pisa is very good —–it will be hot and packed in August .
Lucca is very good —-it will be packed /hot in August .
Siena is beautiful ——Il Campo is fab .. Big crowds
San Gimignano is stunning .. Real busy at the height of the summer
I like Volterra.. I like the quieter wee towns like Radda / Prato and Pistoia
The road between Volterra and Massa Marittima is a visual treat.
Tuscany is a beautiful part of the world . It ‘s hot and busy in August . Lots to see etc [ though your weans might think otherwise ] .
You will find driving in Italy challenging.
cliftonville celt from belfast
Or thinking they can throw pipe-bombs at five year olds a la Holy Cross
They would have got away with it too,were it not for rolling news programmes worldwide taking notice.
The power of the media to highlight or obscure wrongdoing.
Could do with some of that now….
sixoclockatthechapel
A couple of posters answered it satisfactorily. Their reasoning was sound,and I believe them to be correct.
Hope so!
Let’s all hanker after the return of the Sevco tribute act.
Oh how I miss the honest mistakes.
Oh how I miss the sense of privilege and superiority.
Oh how I miss the foul chants.
Oh how I miss the honest mistakes enabling one team.
Oh how I miss the V sign given to the rules.
Oh how I miss the soft line when their players and management get red cards.
Oh how I miss the rules being manipulated to suit one side.
Oh how I miss the lenient view of referees to their agricultural tackles.
Oh how I miss the questionable penalties awarded at crucial parts of a game.
Oh how I miss the corruption which surrounds them like a bad smell.
Yes let’s get them fast tracked so I can take my tongue out my cheek.
Bhoys
Just heading into town with the boss to see the boss….will be in Sartis in Renfield Street about half 3ish before heading to Hampden, any you cqners about for a bar or a bite to eat come and say hi.
Kikinthenakas
Tom Rogic came on for the last half our of the qualifier against Iraq,who were no mugs.
He made a major contribution by transforming our efforts to break down a dour Iraqi defensive team which suffered a lot of seemingly life threatening injuries from which they miraculously recovered.
A lot of the local commentators feel he is a great prospect.
Auldheid
I’m seeing nothing on the licence issues that couldn’t be justified at the time as ordinary course.
Nothing yet demonstrates or even hints at rule breaking on that issue at the SFA end.
A trip to Nyon is parsley.
BMC-UW-
Yip-have just read those….Cheers.
That makes sense.
We are in so many respects in very sound financial health it would seem.
gg
I reckon some people would be well advised to remove their tongue from someone else’s cheeks….
The waiter approached the table and presented the bill to the portly knight of the realm.
He opened the leather encased wallet and surveyed the damage, it had been a great dinner, succulent lamb and a few bottles of the finest reds.
Monoco prices he thought, thats steep.
Would Sir like to settle the bill please.
“Em, I will wait on my companion , he is just using the facilities” he said in a strange Scuddish like accent.
“sorry sir, but he has allready left via the kitchens”
the dyed haired vain man contorted his face and heard himself let out an involuntary mumble
“damn you whytey, duped again”
I have not seen anything so far that says that the SFA are anti Celtic, but I have seen a barrow load of revelations from Charlotte and from others before, that shows them to be pro rangers.
You can work out yourself if being pro rangers makes you anti Celtic. You can make your own mind up there.
Folks like myself slated the Celtic board relentlessly after WGS lost the league to Watty and I questioned our ambition while RFC went onto collect two seasons worth of CL money, at Celtics expense while the huns were supposedly skint.
Not only was it a 30 million quid lift to the huns it was a 30 million quid boot in the haw maws to Celtic. (Again you can decide for yourself if being pro rangers makes you anti Celtic.)
For me, it’s still a disappointment that that club have decided to remain silent on all the revelations so far from Charlotte and others before. I have previously stated before that the SFA have been exposed as a toilet, a stinking blocked up lavvy pan of an organisation. I see no reason to change that opinion. The MSM are hiding behind various possible legal issue as a reason not to challenge the SFA either.
I feel that since the club have not spoken that they do appear as if they do not wish to upset the SFA applecart. I do.
If the club feel that they are hampered by the same legal restrictions that the MSM are hiding behind then they only have to box just a wee bit clever
They can question the SFA without mentioning charlotte. For example, the club can publicly ask the SFA
A) Does the fact that CO still owes 90k of EBT money mean his position and his actions relating to RFC/TRFC/sevco are compromised
B) The club could ask the SFA if the have ever felt the need to run press releases past RFC/TRFC/sevco for approval before releasing them
C) And so on
For me these types of action alone would be enough. The SFA can always just reply by saying no, but the action of the club raising the question would surely prompt activity.
Us internet bampots have no route to make our voice known (I have suggested a bhoycott of the league cup and Scottish cup) then when asked why the bhoycott, we can state our opinions about what is going on.
The supporters associations/affiliations seem impotent.
The club have a very strong voice of course but wont raise it on this subject, although in my opinion they have always been quite quick to raise that voice on the lesser topics such as the green brigade or rebel songs. I don’t understand why they have made that choice perhaps someone can enlighten me. I’m fairly confident Fergus McCann would have something to say.
If RFC/TRFC/sevco survive this and eventually end up winning the SPL at some point in the future, our grandkids wil ask us what happened and why they didn’t die. I hope that the answer wont be, it was because our generation of celtic fans were too apathetic to do anything about it.
SAINT STIVS
Did he do a runner?
Did whoever mislaid their Springsteen tickets ever find them?
Saw Neil Young at the O2 last night – bit of a disappointment.
Grunge Central.
The Battered Bunnet:
I am knocking no person, not a single one for speaking out. I appreciate what they are trying to achieve, but everybody has to accept that opinions will differ on what is the most effective way of speaking out.
A long time ago I used to think Neganon was a pain, I think there are many on here who would maybe share that agreement. However, I have come full circle, I now believe that without the likes of Neganon, Canamalar, Awe Naw, Maggie, and their like, then we are destined to stagnate in our own vain – subjective – achievements.
I do know what efforts you put in and I think I am pretty clued up to what a lot of others endeavour, but my appreciation is moot and our individual efforts to achieve equality fall far short of being accomplished.
To my mind, let me repeat that because it is just my opinion and not an intended slight on any individual per se, I disagree with the analogy you, and others allude to, that there is a battle weariness in play, to my mind we as individuals have done no more than talk, moan , bleat, whine, blame game, criticise, ostracise, demean, etc. etc. (and I do include myself in that too and at times I think I can be more to blame than many)
Few of us, if any, have even begun to fight, the only way to wound and defeat those who are prostituting our national sport is to hit them in the pocket. I don’t believe that anything has been organised to be done to achieve that object, far less even a wee plop across their bows.
As long as the sponsors continue to prop up the regime then the regime will be the ones doing the regimenting. If, however, we ever cared, ever dared, to organise and mot solicit change but dictate it, then maybe then, maybe then we might all get battle weary over a long campaign. But then again, who knows, maybe we just might win.
I believe Charles Green wiped his bahookie with the 5 way agreement and the SFA lapped it up. If my assessment is even close to the truth what does that tell us about the character of those who pimped our national game.
I know for a fact that’ll likely be useless unless we get off our arses and find ourselves an achievable objective that will boot the balls of the SFA. We have to stop the procrastination, put up for endorsement a few suggestions that will hurt/cost those who are corrupted otherwise it is likely that poor Auldheid and his like are going to get rule-shock one day, and it’ll all’ve been for the sum total of hee-haw.
I also cannot understand why Celtic did not raise any objection to Campbell Ogilvie being re-elected. Maybe there are some Baldrick genes in our office holders, because it sure ass hell looks like they have no balls, whether that is true or not.
Marti
Cliftonville play on the 16/17 of July and will be away first with the second game being 23/24 July (both subject to change at any time obviously) We could draw Celtic or Legia Waraw !!!
BBhoy
Cant really add much to what South of Tunis said.
There certainly is a lot to see and do in Tuscany – it is a beautiful region of the country.
August will be hot – make sure you have plenty of water to hand!
…and the main tourist attractions will have lots of (fellow) tourists, but this should not hinder your enjoyment too much!
You will be fine – your hire car will have air-con!
Enjoy!
HH!!
Afternoon all.
Canamalar
Couple of things– sorry of it was not you who focused on Fletcher — irrespective of who it was it is a dead debate as we did not sign him– end of story.
Re the pressure you want to bring on the Celtic Board — I don’t disagree. I believe Auld Heid and I actually prepared a motion to put before the AGM which said effectively that this club had no confidence in the current administration of the SFA and the CEO/President– and that it was not fit for purpose.
Auldheid will have a record of the exact wording we proposed and maybe now we be a good time to revive it and see if it gains some support.
It is not necessarily important that any such motion is passed by the Celtic Board– merely that it is tabled and debated from the floor. I would advocate a straight forward open vote and if the main players at Celtic part want to abstain then so be it. Anyway prepare now for an AGM that is some time away.
Auldheid/TBB
The problem here is that the Charlotte material is too Scatter-gun and does not FOCUS on driving one particular point home, but instead moves on to another.
Ogilvie at the SFA is the week point here very quickly followed by Regan’s behaviour over the 5 way agreement.
What Green did to Whyte and what Whyte did to Murray is of no interest whatsoever to me other than it causes a shake of the head.
The SFA executive are like skittles in a row– knock them down one by one— bowl ball after ball at them until the collapse of the leading skittles is inevitable– those then tend to fall taking others with them.
Boards like this need to focus on these guys and push at the MSM to report– but you have to lay it out nice and simple for them as remember 14 months ago one broadsheet predicted the Rangers Admin would last no more than 4 weeks and they would be back stranger than ever trading as usual.
In all honestly– Charlotte has to focus on one issue and literally spell it out.
PeteTheBeat
14:00 on
18 June, 2013
Did whoever mislaid their Springsteen tickets ever find them?
Saw Neil Young at the O2 last night – bit of a disappointment.
Grunge Central.
Yes Pete I found them thanks for asking. It is amazing the places you put things under the affluence of incahol.
Clarence Clemons RIP.
KTF
HH