This time next week Celtic will have played two competitive games, both at home, and we will have a chance to properly assess preseason preparations. Even if victories are achieved against HJK Helsinki and Aberdeen the challenges for the remainder of the month, with at least four and possibly five games away from Celtic Park, with the possibility of only one home game, in the final Champions League qualifying round, will ensure Celtic are tested to their limit.
Two trips to the Highlands ahead of the Champions League qualifiers would be an unwelcome distraction. Maybe an occasion for the youth and fringe players.
Let me know if you want to advertise in the forthcoming issue of CQN Magazine, celticquicknews@gmail.com.
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KevJungle – Murdo..10 men Championees..1979 on 30 July, 2012 at 10:14 said:
You just about said it all.
End of July and no serious attempt to strengthen squad.
Looks like rerun of an old story.
Come last days of August and a desperate but predictably failed attempt to sign, Rooney, Nani, Ronaldo or some such.
celtic *o* lennon on 30 July, 2012 at 10:01 said:
proudbhoy on 30 July, 2012 at 09:48 said:
Ordered my sponserless black top in may and was told sept 9th but got it 2 days before the home kit launched so you should get it before sept 9th hopefully ;-)
That’s gives me bit of hope.
Cheers
Just a thought
Has anyone got the skills required to create a CQN app?
I’m thinking that it would be a good way to help contribute to the running costs for the blog and perhaps raise money and awareness of causes dear to the CQNers such as wee Oscar ?
As I said just a thought Paul?
Ernie
I think in addition to title stripping, those RFC Directors who also served as Directors of both SFA and SPL during the period will be banned sine die.
Those who implemented the scam were simultaneously responsible for the governance of the Game, thus corrupting it from the inside.
This aspect is in my view the most significant of the entire shameful episode.
How the SFA deals with and recovers from the SPL banning the SFA President from participation in the Game will be interesting to watch…
TBB
I’m sure it has been raised before, but just in case HMRC are looking in… A peek at the SFL website team section shows a rich and illustrious (sic) history for ‘The Rangers FC’… Familiar strip too, sure I’ve seen it somewhere before.
http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/club/rangers-fc/
Is Mr Green just trying to goad Hector into action?
jungle jam67 on 30 July, 2012 at 09:52 said:
so the wheels of justice run slowly
21 weeks since the start of the 2 contract investigation started
28 weeks since the final day of the FTT case by hmrc finished
the only thing so far is 10 point deduction and euro ban which are both
sanction for administration and liquidation.
then the transfer ban was postponed till september.
they have not even started the punishment phase yet
get a move on and nail these cheats
jam67
==========================================
As I see it there is a bit of a conundrum here for all of us fair minded people.
RFC are liquidated. BUT the fans of RFC are now turning up, it would seem to watch ‘The Rangers’.
That club claims the history of RFC, kept several of its players, manager, coaches, other staff, wears the same strip and most strangely seems to have kept a sponsorship deal with the previous clubs sponsor.
It would also appear that they are willing to go so far to keep the history and maintain the illusion that they are prepared to accept the punishments for the sins of RFC. Those punishments are not insignificant.
In doing all of this they also appear to be inviting HMRC to start wondering if the tax bill should indeed land on Sevco’s doormat. If they are indeed the old club by another name (which legally they are not, but in character one could argue that they are) then they could indeed say they have been ‘punished’ by being sent to D3. But they cannot then turn around and say ‘it wisnae us’ if the tax man comes back for his do-rae-me. If you eat your cake, it’s gone, if you want to keep it, you can’t eat it……
I have some sympathy with Green when he complains about being punished for the sins of the old regimes. But he needs to make it clear that there is a clean break otherwise he is simply not really running a Newco but the Oldco in a very thin disguise – he cannot have it both ways. If they continue this behaviour then how long until the multitude of other creditors, shafted under liquidation and in Administration by D&P go seeking legal redress from this ‘new’ club who are playing at Ibrox, in front of the same paying ‘customers’ while small businesses and the tax payer get not a penny?
How long until someone investigates the sale of assets to Green for such a paltry figure while the creditors got f-all?
This thing is far from over. I am no expert but Sevco/ The Rangers are being as badly run as Oldco/ Rangers. Disaster once again stalks them. I wonder if there are any bookies who would take a bet on there being a Rnagers Mark III before 12 months is out?
At the root of all this is the total lack of humility from the supporters and custodians of Oldco and their cheerleaders in the press and media. As our pal Auldheid keeps reminding us, it’s not possible for us to let go and forgive until there is some form of apology and/ or recognition of wrongdoing and cheating on their part. They also cannot move on themselves as effectively if they don’t get some leadership in this area. Years of being told they were ‘the peepul’, being protected by the establishment and being used to inflated success appear to have damaged their colective psyche.
I am now not so sure that Sevco is all that different from Rangers 1873-2012. Legally and historically yes they are different, but in character they appear to have all the traits of Oldco. If they don’t rid themselves of them very soon then they will go the way of Oldco. It makes no damned difference to me.
And for all the comments I am about to get regarding me saying Sevco and Oldco are very much the same ask yourselves this before you post – were you hoping for Brechin to win yesterday? Do you want Sevco’s best players to walk away? Are you hoping Sevco get hit by an almighty punishment when Oldco are found to have player improperly registered players for more than a decade?
Why?
quonno on 30 July, 2012 at 10:35 said:
______________________________________________
The way I see it is….
We’ve got fellow Celtic fans wanting the club to make statements about the huns….
I think that, the biggest statement we could make would be through the club strengthening the team and, let everybody know that – Lennon’s Lion’s will not be standing still !!!
Hail Hail
The Battered Bunnet on 30 July, 2012 at 10:36 said:
‘Ernie
I think in addition to title stripping, those RFC Directors who also served as Directors of both SFA and SPL during the period will be banned sine die.’
Agreed.
It’s not like the FTT decision will be an end to things, quite the reverse. There’s going to be all sorts of litigation and recrimination. Reputations are going to be trashed.
The SFA and SPL will want to distance themselves from the whole stinking, corrupt morass once the lid comes off.
ABZMike on 30 July, 2012 at 10:39 said:
That SFL page doesn’t make sense.
Green himself is on record as saying that the huns needed to go down the CVA route to avoid losing their history.
Re the 5 fag burns onthe Sevco strip,it is still there,hidden down the side underneath the sleeve,a bit more noticeable on Elbows shirt than any other one.:}
proudbhoy –
I logged into the Celtic website several weeks ago to order the black away top, but noticed right away a big notice saying it won’t be available until 9th September, so I immediatley logged out and didn’t proceed with the order.
Sine Die is ‘like a new signing ‘ -Mark Hateley.
ABZMike on 30 July, 2012 at 10:39 Re SFL website.
This was pointed out on Friday and a few of the posters on here, myself included, have emailed the SFL to enquire as to how a new club can have an old club’s history.
Still waiting on a reply.
SPF
The teams that SevCo could face in the next money spinning round of the Ramsdens Cup
ARBROATH
COWDENBEATH
EAST FIFE
FALKIRK
FORFAR ATHLETIC
MONTROSE
RAITH ROVERS
If its Raith Rovers, i hope Turnbull Hutton makes the away end tickets £25 a pop
the quiote belowshows why we will never rid this country of bigotry.
“Tayside Police said the trouble was caused by a minority.
Officers said most of the capacity 4,100 support at Glebe Park conducted themselves “in an entirely appropriate way”.”
Singing songs of hate, singing songs of division, singing songs that have been found to be unlawful and not only can land you in court but could (ha ha) get your club in trouble is “appropriate.
If the police dont see it as wrong what hope have you got.
Disgraceful.
Palacio67 on 30 July, 2012 at 09:57 said:
Just logged on Bhoys, is there a problem with the RTC blog, I cannot update.
======
I have same problem.
It must be a website problem and not just us.
There are more than 7000 posts and perhaps there is a limit ….. I think something similar happened a few months ago.
The history and the debt are inseparable; they can’t have one without the other.
So if they’re debt free then they’re history free as well.
It’s being allowed to have their cake and eat it that’s got them into this mess.
Apes in brown brogues getting very angry with people who don’t share their ‘continuation’ theory.
Surprisingly, the Green Man, the late Mr Smith, Dickie Gough, MythGregor, Naismith and Whittaker have all been left off the list.
Morning from a Pleasant Balmy Coombe in the Chilterns…
Got to agree with Paul, the quality and depth (albeit inexperiencedly youthfull) of our squad should ensure the fringe players get a chance to shine.
For me their potential is awesome! Think they will do for the fringe this decade whit the Beatles did in the sixties.
Seen The Rangers F C made a “plucky” start on their Fitba’ debut, Scotland’s eldest enfant terrrib looked a bit damp at Brechin though.
Good performance against Inter by all accounts but been a poor pre-season, but in Football it’s not how you start… some Celtic goals this week would be nice.
FinnishItInParadise.
Not a lot of humility and remorse shown yesterday:
Green accusing other SPL clubs of ‘bigotry’ in their decision making about Sevco.
Sectarian singing and offensive banner.
Green applauding fans chanting about Regan and the SFA.
Green boasting about being debt free and being in a better financial position than us.
Malcolm Murray saying clubs will want them back due to finance and this will happen next year…
Oafish and repugnant individuals who truly believe the watp mantra and who deserve everything that is coming their way. I truly hope we go on frm strength to strength and take the opportunities open to us starting on Wednesday. A UCL qualifier sure beats the Ramsdens cup draw at the Forge!
Has Rob McLean gone deaf?
Chuckle Green’s indulgence to the hun panhandlers in the cheap seats is making Moonbeams, Our man Whytey and even Bomber look like calm, compromising, measured, tolerant and pleasantly reasonable individuals…the new devil is much worse than the old devil.
Poor wee Sevco FC are at the mercy of the relentless tyrannical forces of evil Scottish bigotry…Celtic are a new club like Sevco except Sevco ain’t Sevco they’re actually Rangers of old…we’ve just f***ed over all our creditors and those suckers at Ticketus paid off our 20m debt but now I’m gonna BOAST about us being debt free and better off than Celtic by the end of the season!!!
Is the Insanity Test not part of the SFA fit and proper person protocol? Because if it a’int then it should be NOW! Chuckles is like Baron Münchhausen on Absinthe…wakawakawakawakakwoooooo…at the next press conference he’ll probably turn up on a plastic hobby horse telling us he is Lord Lucan riding Shergar!
!!Bada Bing!! on 30 July, 2012 at 10:49:
“Re the 5 fag burns on the Sevco strip, it is still there, hidden down the side underneath the sleeve”
Are you suggesting there is a bit of deceit going on with the Ibrox outfit?
What about the dignity?
RobertTressell on 30 July, 2012 at 10:40 said:
“As I see it there is a bit of a conundrum here for all of us fair minded people.” etc
If they are keeping their history ….. when they eventually return to Europe and their traditional conduct abroad, will they be happy to have previous convictions taken into account by UEFA?
Or will they argue that they have not been in trouble for 3 or 4 years?
Or, more likely, will they argue that this would be a first offence?
Chairbhoy- so ‘Eleanor Rigby’- or Ob li di Ob li da?
The great strength of the Beatles is that the total was much greater than the sum of the parts, which is what you need in a football team to succeed.
While the midfield is well stocked we’re still thin up front and in the Sieve.
Aberdeen FC @AberdeenFC
The Dons allocation of tickets for the SPL opener against Celtic on Saturday have now sold out!
Retweeted by Celtic Underground
Aberdeen have sold all their tickets for Saturday; I hope the park is full to celebrate flying the flag and get us off to a great start.
Green confirms Newco…
“I think justice has been done. The club was fined 10 points, it received a £190,000 fine, it was then put out of the SPL, it was then put down to the Third Division, it has had to pay all the Scottish club debts – which wouldn’t normally happen for a NEWCO to be obliged to pay OLDCO’S debts.”
We’re goin’ to need a bigger Gazebo.
RobertTressell, the more severe the punishment along with am unsuccessful team the more likely they are to fold and or say yes we are a new club and change the name, either way with the result that the most unsavoury element of the club and it’s support walk away.
“We saw on Friday the chief executive of Celtic [Peter Lawwell] asking his supporters to buy season tickets because they haven’t been selling.”
Said the man whose own club had shifted 600 season tickets… lol!!
Istanbul bhoy
Eftalia Aqua Resort Alanya
Arrived TUesday for 2 weeks
Sack Peter Lawwell!!!
I mean if Green can pay Black £7000 a week on Third Division income and no European football, Peter is obviously absolutely pash at his job.
“We are giving the fans what they deserve and if they turn up then they [the players] will be paid for quite easily.”
Once the number of season tickets is known I really hope Celtic get proactive to try and fill the empty seats this season…if there are any.
Would supporters clubs and overseas supporters, wishing to contribute, sponsor some season tickets?
Sports clubs/schools given tickets to encourage future support and spend some money when they are there.
My brother has recently moved to Australia and gave up his ticket. He has purchased Celtic TV and will buy club merchandise but he wants to do more.
I know membership schemes etc have been spoken about on here but it would be good to hear if anyone has heard any ideas from the club.
new article posted.
Green not mentioning non-Scottish football debts. not that they’ve paid the Scottish football debts nor the fines.
Borrowed from RTC who I think might have borrowed it from KDS:
Prohibited name
Section 216 of the Insolvency Act 1986 defines the circumstances in which criminal and civil liability can be imposed on a director who acts, without proper notice being given or the leave of the court, for a company or even an unincorporated business which is known by a prohibited name.
A name will be prohibited where it is the same name that the liquidating company was known as at any time in the 12 months immediately before it went into liquidation, or where it is sufficiently similar as to suggest an association with the liquidating company. This includes a trading name.
Criminal liability
Where a company trades under a prohibited name an individual can be guilty of a criminal offence punishable by imprisonment or fine, or both for:
• acting as a director of the company; and
• taking part either directly or indirectly in the formation, management or promotion of the company.
An individual can also be liable under Section 216 for being involved in a business using the prohibited name, even if it is not a company.
Civil liability
Under section 217 of the Act, a person will be personally responsible for the ‘relevant debts’ of a company if he is involved in the management of the company in breach of section 216, or if he is involved in the management of a company and takes instructions from a person he knows to be in breach of section 216. The relevant debts are those debts which were incurred whilst that person was acting in contravention of section 216 or taking instructions from a person he knew to be in contravention of section 216.
An Example
A simple illustration can be seen in the case of Ricketts v Ad Valorem Factors Ltd [2003] EWCA Civ 1706
Air Component Company Limited (Air Component) went into insolvent liquidation; Mr Ricketts was a Director of Air Component from 2nd January 1998, that is at that time in the period of 12 months ending with the day before it went into Liquidation on 10th February 1998. Mr Ricketts was also a Director of Air Equipment Company Limited (Air Equipment) from 2nd March 1998, which is in the period of 5 years beginning with the day on which Air Component went into Liquidation.
The leave of the Court was not sought or obtained for Mr Ricketts to act in relation to a Company known by the name of Air Equipment. Whilst Mr Ricketts was a Director of Air Equipment it incurred the debts to Hankinson UK Ltd. Air equipment also went in to liquidation. Ad Valorem, as Assignee of the Hankinson debt, sought to recover it from Mr Ricketts personally. The relevant requirements of Sections 216 and 217 Insolvency Act 1986 were plainly satisfied.
Since Mr Ricketts was acting as a director of Air Equipment Company Limited, he had no defence if it was decided that the name was prohibited by virtue of it being sufficiently similar to Air Component Company Limited.
The Court of Appeal did, indeed, uphold the decision of the lower court and dismiss Mr Ricketts’ appeal, finding that the names were sufficiently similar to impose personal liability. In reaching that decision they also considered the products sold by the two companies; their locations; their customers and the common management.
And so the Court’s determination was that, bearing in mind these considerations:-
‘there was no doubt that the name Air Equipment Company Limited suggested an association with Air Component Company Limited’.
If the Director was guided through these complex provisions to avoid the long reach of section 216 personal liability (and potentially criminal liability) should have been easily avoided.
Confused?
The Court of Appeal in reaching its decision found that there was no requirement under either section 216 or 217 for proof of any express misrepresentation or of anyone actually having been deceived or confused into thinking there was an association between the two companies. Instead, the test to be applied appears to be whether the names are so similar that they would be likely to suggest to a member of the public that they were associated, whether as successor companies or as part of the same group.
Avoiding liability
The prohibition of using a prohibited name runs for five years from the date of liquidation and applies to anyone who was a director or active in the management of the relevant company within the 12 months preceding the liquidation.
There are 5 principal ways to avoid or mitigate liability:-
1 A Court application can be made for permission to act for a company (or unincorporated business) with a prohibited name. Such permission is likely to be given if the insolvency of the first company is not linked to culpable conduct of the party making the application. Whilst this mechanism has not been widely used in the past it will be used more frequently in the future.
2 There is also a mechanism for giving notice in the immediate aftermath of liquidation by giving notice PROVIDED notice in proper form is given BEFORE there is an infringement of Section 216. This mechanism is contained in an almost incomprehensible amendment to the Insolvency Rules was rushed through in August 2007 in knee-jerk reaction to the Court of Appeal Judgment in Churchill v First Independent Factors and Finance Limited [2006] EWCA Civ 1623.
Inevitably, many advisers to successor/group businesses not familiar with these new regulations will get it wrong and not secure the intended protection. The impact of this will not be under-estimated by increasingly sophisticated creditors, such as Ad Valorem Ltd in the example above, seeking to pierce the corporate veil. Company Directors and their advisers must therefore focus on that aspect.
3 There is no infringement of Sections 216 and 217 if the second company has been known by the prohibited name for the whole of the 12 months preceding the day on which the first company went into liquidation and has been active for that same period (sec 216(3) IA 1986)
4. Resigning as a director or manager.
5. Change the company or trading name.
Act in haste, repent in leisure?
The potentially severe personal consequences to any Director or his Accountant or Insolvency Practitioner acting for Directors of a company in contravention of sections 216 and 217 Insolvency Act 1986 cannot be ignored.
It is strongly recommended that you obtain specialist legal advice on any potential issues with your clients; otherwise it may become your problem and not just theirs.
Derek Cockle
Karslakes
Friary Court
13-21 High Street, Guildford
Surrey, GU1 3DG
Disclaimer
This note is for illustrative purposes only and is not intended to form specific legal advice to be relied on. Each case will turn on its own unique facts and circumstances.
Tom McLaughlin on 30 July, 2012 at 10:49 said:
proudbhoy –
I logged into the Celtic website several weeks ago to order the black away top, but noticed right away a big notice saying it won’t be available until 9th September, so I immediatley logged out and didn’t proceed with the order.
Wasn’t there when I ordered sadly, mate ordered week before me and he’s in same boat. No odds now, I’ll get it eventually.
Just annoying when u try support club only way possible and this happens.
DonsTalk @DonsTalk
Ian Black has told all his former teammates at hearts that he is on 5k a week and promised he/rangers will be back in the SPL next season