Rennes visit Celtic Park tonight already out of the Europa League and are likely to finish bottom of the group, even if they get an unlikely win in Glasgow. They compete in a ridiculously competitive league, with 6th and 15th place separated by no more than a single win. They are home to St Etienne on Sunday, a game with far more importance then their visit to Glasgow.
For Celtic, a win tonight should be enough to see them top the group, take the pressure off a busy December by flexing the squad when we visit Cluj on Match Day 6, and become seeded in the first play-off round. That should be enough motivation to get the job done.
We have three games ahead of the League Cup final, Rennes, Ross County away on Sunday and Hamilton at home on Wednesday. Neil should use plenty of the squad during these games to ensure we arrive at Hampden in peak condition. An intense December will go a long way to determining the outcome of the season, energy levels will be key.
The regular Uefa fines for pyrotechnics are not substantial enough to make a material impact on club operations (yet), as was alluded to at yesterday’s AGM, but the issue needs to be resolved, either with a rule change, a Uefa-ordered closure, or people stop bringing pyrotechnics to the football. I don’t predict a rule change.
I can’t say I am holding out for a win if/when the SFA eventually report on Rangers submissions to the Association for Uefa competitions in 2011. The best chance for what appears to be an unequivocally false submission being identified, was in Uefa taking an interest (not the police).
I don’t buy the falsehood that it is somehow in Celtic’s interest to make this go away, that notion is paranoid nonsense, only blame-the-victim fantasists believe it. Celtic have influence, but not without limit. And despite occasional urging from me, they will wallow in victimhood, like some elsewhere.
123 Comments- Pages:
- «
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- »
VIP
You missed out CREDABILITY……imho.
I remember the good old days when ‘have’ didn’t mean ‘of’ & Celtic had a soul.
“Football without customers is nothing” just doesn’t inspire.
Anywhy, back to Lurkington for me.
Canamalar – I hear your frustration.
Why would they do this?
To what end?
BTW – am asking based on a firmly held premise – that there are a far higher proportion of Celtic fans on our board than the SFA’s or SPFL’s.
Hail hail
“ I don’t buy the falsehood that it is somehow in Celtic’s interest to make this go away, that notion is paranoid nonsense, only blame-the-victim fantasists believe it.”
Perhaps then Paul you might believe the words of a CFC director charged with overseeing and promoting the plc’s financial performance? During Sevco’s ‘journey’ up the leagues, he very openly opined to me that it was his and the plc’s earnest desire to see them ‘return’. As soon as possible.
Nothing that the plc has said or done since has in any way deviated from this position.
Had the Lying King performed and uttered as Bankier and PL did yesterday, you’d have been all over them with ridicule. As it is, this site and its scriptwriters, are now simply purveyors of Plc propaganda, and have been for quite some time (since its inception?)
A miasma of squirrels are produced, as though on tap and on call.
HH jg
The epitome of rudeness.
Insulting a man in his own house .
Combined with a blatant attempt to damage the house into which he has been welcomed in the past.
For many years I was a one man CSC, I won’t say it was boring but it was a simple life, if Celtic won I was happy if they lost I was sad.
Then I found CQN & suddenly I was conversing & discussing Celtic with like minded Tims and yes it heightened the fun & excitement.
However it looks like the fun has run its course, It’s all trouble & strife now and the football seems an afterthought.
There are real heartbreaking problems in life, Football & Celtic in particular were a release for me, as the Betting Slogan says, When the Fun stops, stop
I too will reconsider my cyber future but for different reason..
Good Afternoon All.
Can I at least try to explain something about the Res 12 situation which is a very common misconception and which is repeatedly regularly.
The resolution asked the board to refer the matter to UEFA or the City of London Police — the latter were included but only as a backstop really for the reasons given below.
So let’s start with Paul 67’s final two paragraphs which say as follows.
I can’t say I am holding out for a win if/when the SFA eventually report on Rangers submissions to the Association for Uefa competitions in 2011. The best chance for what appears to be an unequivocally false submission being identified, was in Uefa taking an interest (not the police).
I don’t buy the falsehood that it is somehow in Celtic’s interest to make this go away, that notion is paranoid nonsense, only blame-the-victim fantasists believe it. Celtic have influence, but not without limit. And despite occasional urging from me, they will wallow in victimhood, like some elsewhere.
With respect to Paul (who I will be out with on Saturday night) the SFA report on Rangers submissions to the Association for UEFA competitions in 2011 was completed many months ago. Despite stringently arguing that there was nothing amiss in 2011 and in 2012, that ultimate report was considered and the then compliance officer took the view that he had no option but to recommend charges be brought against RFC for breaches of the SFA and UEFA rules.
So there is no report yet to come.
Charges were brought alleging rule breaches — albeit not the most serious rule breaches — but they would have encompassed what Paul describes as RFC making an unequivocally false submission in terms of their licence application.
The evidence for that unequivocally false submission already exists, can be professionally opined upon, and then it is up to whatever judicial forum you like to pronounce guilt or innocence. If the verdict is the former then there is a punishment, if it is the latter there is none.
End of story, easy peasy lemon squeezy.
Now, as for the best chance being to get UEFA interested let me postulate.
The charges come before an SFA appointed panel which has a legal chairman.
RFC make a submission saying “The SFA can’t bring these charges against us, and you can’t hear those charges because the 5 way agreement says that all of this has to go to The Court for Arbitration for Sport.”
The panel looks at the agreement and agrees with that submission.
It then gives a written decision saying it can’t hear the charges and tells the SFA to CAS.
When asked by Celtic if it is going to CAS , THE sfa say “Of course – there is no reason not to take it to CAS”
So we wait for it to go to CAS – and we wait and we wait and we wait.
The SFA are written to three times about when it is going to CAS — they either don’t answer at all or fudge the issue.
But it becomes clear they don’t want to go to CAS.
Now why would that be?
Well long ago in this saga there was an exchange of e-mails between the SFA and RFC with RFC saying to the SFA words to the effect that they had better not do this or that as it would be embarrassing for both of us.
Well I wonder what would be embarrassing for the SFA in taking this to CAS which of course they said they would.
Could it be that they would not want UEFA to know that they had contracted out of enforcing UEFA rules against RFC IN 2012?
That would be pretty embarrassing and would maybe incur UEFA’s wrath?
I think there are plenty of reasons why the SFA would not want an outside body, let alone an international court see the 5 way and explore what was said and represented prior to its being signed.
But let’s move on.
Paul says the best way to have had this looked at properly was to have had UEFA look at it.
Hallelujah – I agree entirely which is why there was a resolution to place it before UEFA in 2012 — which Celtic wanted to oppose and keep it with the SFA.
Which is why, when the SFA (not UEFA) said later that they could not make a report on anything for season 2011/2012 because THEY were supposedly time barred from reporting anything in terms of their monitoring function, we, the resolutioners, secured an open invitation from UEFA to Celtic to say if you want to refer this to us they would listen.
They night still say we can’t look at this, or that the SFA should have reported this earlier or even that they were not interested.
But — Celtic did not take up the invitation for whatever reason.
But hey all was not lost because when the SFA panel told the SFA to refer the currently live charges to CAS — charges which allege breaches of the UEFA rules — The SFA or Celtic could have gone to UEFA to say we are referring this to you because because you may be interested in a judicial ruling which recommends that CAS determine whether your rules have been broken or not in Scotland.
Surely CAS would not be determining an issue based on UEFA rules without UEFA having some input as to how those rules were to be interpreted?
But hey, no – didn’t happen.
Then there was the latest resolution before the Celtic AGM — raised formally rather than informally because it was clear no one wanted to bring the matter to CAS or UEFA or before any kind of tribunal at all.
It was lodged with Celtic weeks ago.
At any time since they could have raised it with UEFA privately written to UEFA setting out the facts and circumstances (even the facts and circumstances as Celtic see them) and asked them for their view or confirmation that they were “not interested”
But no — no letters, no enquiry, nothing other than a phone call on the morning of the AGM.
Now does that strike you as the ideal form of corporate governance?
When Paul talks of the best way to having an unequivocally false submission examined properly and fairly – do you think a phone call six years later is the best way or the best attempt at doing that?
Also if someone says in answer we don’t care cause old co is dead — do you rest there and say ok?
In a murder trial the victim is dead and doesn’t care two hoots about the verdict — it is the actual crime that is on trial.
If a car driver crashes his car and kills someone, and kills himself in the process, the families of the innocent victim are not denied a trial because the careless or negligent driver is dead.
That is a nonsense.
So with respect to Paul paragraph one makes no sense to me given the facts.
As for Paragraph two — well I don’t know why Celtic have been — lets say less than proactive or at least haven’t done as much as they could or acted as fast as they could.
The phonecall after years of inertia was weird.
As for paranoid falsehood.
Hmm – I have to ask is there a reason why Celtic too would not want the 5 way agreement discussed.
Apparently all who were asked denied ever seeing it – yet as others have commented there is e-mail evidence showing that it was clearly sent to one Celtic director prior to signing.
Who knows.
What I will say is that prior to the AGM one thing that was said to me by a third party was that under no circumstances must Mr Desmond be embarrassed at the AGM by anything to do with RES 12.
No idea what that means but hey I am just a simple fella trying to figure out why everybody and their granny doesn’t want to follow a simple process.
Oh and lastly — a wee reminder of some past words.
https://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/mcintyre-evidence-res-12-5-way-agreement/comment-page-4/
By the way — there is a game tonight — but UEFA are not going to send an observer — Peter is going to describe it over the phone!
Hail Hail
BRTH
Some kind of clear, concise and motivating sense of purpose would help and provide direction.
BRTH
Excellent as always! 😁
I don’t like having my intelligence insulted. I have read and written to this blog for over a decade but today’s article is just insulting. To quote the great Sam Goldwyn, include me out.
BRTH – thank you for your excellent analytical post.
May I ask you to speculate?
Why are Celtic PLC handling this issue in this way?
(On the face of it, their approach doesn’t make sense).
Cheers
Tell me how many stadia have been closed over the yrs due to regular pyro use. The problem here is Paul67 continues to go on about rules etc, instead why not have a grown up discussion on the issues?
Dialog and compromise are the key to solving any dispute though as with the fleeting, and frankly risible, mention of Res12 Paul67 would rather we follow the party line. Explain how that would have worked out if there had been no Celts for Change?
https://www.fotballsupporter.no/2017/07/03/we-ve-read-the-uefa-report-saying-pyro-is-not-safe-and-we-ll-never-get-that-hour-of-our-life-back/
We’ve read the UEFA report saying pyro is not safe and we’ll never get that hour of our life back
Publisert: 3 juli 2017 Skrevet av Posse No comments Kategori: Nyheter
We’ve read the UEFA report saying pyro is not safe and we’ll never get that hour of our life back
On July 3rd, UEFA published an independent scientific report that allegedly “proves no safe use of pyrotechnics in stadiums”. The report is authored by Dr. Tom Smith and counts 72 pages, available here.
Les mer: NFF avslørt: Roxanno (33) vist fram på seminar mot pyro – ble egentlig hardt skadd av hjemmelaget bensinbombe i Rotterdam
Les mer: NFF og UEFA-rapport brukte bilder av sprengningsskader, Athen-derby og rørbomber for å skremme klubbene
To sum things up for you, we’ve read through some extensive descriptions on what happens with skin, clothes, seats etc when exposed to pyrotechnics. As many of you may already know, pyrotechnics do get hot, and when a hot unit is put in contact with an object that is is some way ignitable, the heat will be transferred and a process will begin. Being water that vapourizes from your skin before the fat starts to boil, melting of synthetic clothing, and the panic that may rise from this.
We’re then taken through some hypothetical scenarios where pyrotechnics has been modified to create pipe bombs, or used on a way they are not designed for, with the potential for “multiple deaths as a result”. Emphasized in the report by Dr. Smith.
After a walk-through of different products we’ve seen on stadiums before, we’re served a table showing how toxic known combustion products (what comes out from various kinds of pyrotechnics) can be. Unfortunatly, the table is unable to inform us on what actually comes from – let’s say – a flare or a given smoke bomb, and it is also based on an 8 hour exposure. So unless you’re into pyro and cricket, you’ve probably gone home way before then.
The round-up hands us some nasty footage from Liveleak, along with the humble note that we cannot be entirely sure that these injuries actually comes from firework. Oh well, at least we’ve got an image of what could possibly happen.
Dr. Tom Smith’s conclusion is “The report concludes that there are significant health and safety risks arising from their use in close proximity to other people and in contravention of the safety distances which are specified on the pyrotechnic articles themselves. All pyrotechnic devices have a “safety” distance for good reason and which will to exceed the available space within a crowded stand or stadium. It concludes that is not safe, therefore, for any pyrotechnic device to be used in spectator areas within football stadia. “
So what is wrong with all of this?
There is just no way any normal, enlightened person would sign a document saying that pyrotechnics are “safe”. Dr. Tom Smith is not wrong when he lists the hazards they present. What provokes us about this, is that this takes us nowhere closer to a safer match experience.
UEFA asked for an euphonious “independent scientific report” where the answer would most certainly be “No, it is not safe”. Michael van Praag, chairman of the UEFA Working Group on Pyrotechnics, states that this “proves once and for all that there is no place for pyrotechnics in stadiums“. Well, let us break that down for you.
Pyrotechnics are used on football games and has been for ages. In every country, in every league – and nothing FIFA, UEFA or any national association has ever done seems to keep it from reaching the stands. So this must be UEFAs starting point: “How can we make the stands safer even if pyrotechnics are present“.
If your goal is to make football games safer, here are some numbers for you. In 2015, Norwegian supporter clubs had 80 legal pyro shows. This many people were injured during these shows:
0
This is what happens when fans are made responsible and given influence to self-regulate their security. It’s our skin and clothes that will burn if we don’t. Not van Praags blazer.
This is not what happens if the fans are made criminals from the moment they ignite a flare. They are then hunted by stewards, police, security with remote cameras. This is a recipe for unsafe use of pyro. And there is a good chance that the pyro will leave the hand of this person and head in some direction.
Justice and safety in the stands is best served internally, from supporter to supporter. Not by police, not by the FA, not by UEFA. There is more to this. We believe that when we satisfy and cooperate with the majority of the fans we make it harder for the extreme individuals to influence the rest in behavior that may be harmful. Such behavior often occurs when there is a black-and-white conflict with the club or the FA, where there is little or no understanding for a set of rules or a decision. For instance, if the punishment for the use of a flare where to be 1 year in prison – as it sometimes has been. A vast group of fans would then fall into the same category as the more extreme ones, and may act like so as a consequence. So we need to find a way for the fans to feel seen, understood and trusted with responsibility. As they should be.
Pyro can be dangerous. So can a car. Alcohol. Heights. The list goes on. We surround ourselves with a certain risk every day we get out of bed. So we must learn to deal with these risks in a proper way, when we know they will be a part of our life. To minimize risk, and maximize life.
If safety is important, we must approach pyro in a way that minimizes risk. A ban does not work. This “independent scientific report” does nothing for our safety. It only serves as a tool for those who doesn’t dare a more reasonable approach to pyro.
We want the flare to stay in the hand of the supporter that chooses to light it, we want the colored smoke to raise above the fan sector where everyone knows there might be smoke, and we want everybody to go home safe without burns, or handcuffs.
UEFA/FIFA; A great number of people has died building arenas for your big tournaments. We suggest you start with that if you’re concerned of people’s well being. Apply cold water to that burn, why don’t you
BACK TO BASICS
Can’t help feeling the board are up to there necks in a save the huns campaign.
I suppose Peter is used to big bonuses.
Hot Smoked
Will do 👍
You can take the teacher out of the Bhoy, but you cannae take the Bhoy out of the teacher…!
HH
Philbhoy – I hear you.
But again, respectfully, to what end?
The CEO has already stated publicly that our “business model” is independent of other clubs’ status.
If one were to ask less respectfully (and this goes to my earlier query to BRTH, what DEFINITIVELY are the board playing at?
Hail hail.
BACK TO BASICS
There is more money in the game with the huns around, plus they are “a great club with a great history”.
David 17
Thanks, I am possibly mixing up theL NS and 5WA malarkey. Easily done in the current fog!
HH
LNS…
Best comment of the day, so far, to lighten the foul mood currently prevailing:
“By the way — there is a game tonight — but UEFA are not going to send an observer — Peter is going to describe it over the phone!”
Hail Hail
BRTH
Paul 67
I see you advocate for the rotation of the squad.
Cold pyros, no smoke
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7fB7aWHgU38
Here’s the hand held version
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4XMtQ0XfTAQ
Given the number the number of games through December there is definitely some merit in this.
However, tonight Vs Rennes, and Sunday vs Ross County I would be tempted to keep going as strong as possible. Get 3 pts in Europa tonight, then Cluj away becomes a freebie. We could then feasibly play literally a shadow side over in Romania.
And next Wednesday at home vs Hamilton represents a fixture where a number of changes could be accommodated.
Paul’s last sentence ensures that this will be my last log on to CQN. Thanks for the memories.
Bankier’s comments at the AGM ensures my credit card will remain in my pocket, with regards to Celtic for the foreseeable future.
Ruggy
Lenny doesn’t like too many changes , say three at the most
Is are some of the major shareholders ready to cash in and bail out, to the highest bidder of course, and, any cloud or dispute hanging over the club or its business would effect the share value?
Nah , Des.
The hip pocket nerve will prevail.
It usually does.
Collum referee next Sunday 🙄🙄
FFS
Manu U under 15s playin Astana
BANKIEBHOY1 on 28TH NOVEMBER 2019 2:18 PM
Some kind of clear, concise and motivating sense of purpose would help and provide direction.
********************************
Time for Celts for Change Too.
🍀⚽️
Prestonpans Bhoys
Agreed… there will be 3 tonight i’m guessing. Bauer, G.Taylor and Ntcham.
BRTH – thanks for that summary.
The only conclusion I can draw is that PL lied when he said our business model is independent of any other club. “Rangers”, in whichever guise they take, are essential to the board’s vision of the SPFL.
We could have finished them forever. We didn’t. On that you can judge our board. Forget all of the pedantic crap about newco and sevco, administration and liquidation – Rangers exist because the SFA and UEFA allowed them to break the rules and continue on as if nothing happened.
I think I can say with a fair degree of certainty, if the roles were reversed, Celtic would no longer exist.
Celtic have been ill treated by the SFA over the years by the referees and yariious disciplinary affairs. The Lisbon Lions far from being an excellent team were average players to the SFA and these fantastic players were poorly treated by the SF and received far fewer Caps than what they deserved. McKinnon picked before McNeil. Grieg rather than Murdoch, various Rangers wingers like Henderson and Mclean picked before Jinky.
We had the tricolour incident when they very nearly closed Celtic park because of a flag.
We know that the place is rotten with Freemasons who have an agenda against our club.
We know that Rangers set up officials in advance to protect them when it came to the Shit hitting the fan.
Remember we had Gordon Smith and Campbell Ogilvie in League with George Petrie at the helm when Rangers were cheating.
The 5 way agreement was between 2 Rangers, SFA, SFL and SPL all represented my masons who stitched a deal between brothers.
Celtic Board tried to use the proper procedures to identify the SFA cheating to help their beloved club and found they had no support from the other Brotherly clubs and after Turnball Hutton passed away there was no voice raised in our support. The cheats had got away with it.
Celtic were naïve and played by the rules. Clubs are not members of UEFA, National associations are the members.
Peter Lawwell tried to change the SFA and got rid of Reagan and some blazers and backed Maxwell and the modernisers who eventually became the majority.
Naïve Maxwell and the others aren’t what we thought but he appears incompetent and also not prepared to change things but sailing along in the old manner.
The press in Scotland do not support Celtic and will Back SFA in their cheating to help Rangers.
We are naïve and maybe even scared when we should have been shouting to the rooftops and using the media for our purposes.
I have spoken to Celtic Board members and I am incredulous that we get so little support.
Philbhoy – cheers.
If so, they’ve misjudged the mood of our fans.
And, if rumours are true, there is nothing in place at the SFA to prevent a quick readmitting of R@ngers III.
Got to more to this surely?
Hail hail
European football always adds that little bit of extra spice to the season and as always something to look forward to and to-night it’s the French who pay us a visit. Neil Lennon has done exceptionally well since he took over the reins last Feb winning the double,currently sitting on top of the SPL, in a Cup final and already qualified from his European group into next Spring. Let’s hope the Celtic lads can now win the group and the team can do it with the strike force of Jamsie, Eddie and Ryan in the form of their lives now backed by a really solid defence. Come on the Hoops.
If only the article was as well thought out (lets be honest its saying what the plc want it to say) as those of Canamalar, BRTH and those eloquent others (thank you all)
Its heartening that there are many in our support who are interested in the fairness of sport and in the common humanity and the greater good, I salute you all.
To correctly (hopefully) quote St Paul
“The love of money is the root of all evil”
now i wonder who we could attribute that too…………………………………………………
P67’s last two sentences i find reprehensible (unbecoming of Paul as a person generally)
CANAMALAR IT LOOKS LIKE OCD OBSESSION on 28TH NOVEMBER 2019 1:30 PM
I think they have very few ads but the font is tiny, made up 90% of ex and existing cqners
—
PHILBHOY on 28TH NOVEMBER 2019 1:44 PM
BGFC
Very good articles written by the ghuys who post.
Also no moderators so you can call a spade a spade or a daft **** if that suits!
Hope you and young G are good otherwise!
—-
MARSPAPA on 28TH NOVEMBER 2019 1:53 PM
BGFC
From talking to FAIRHILLBHOY, you are guaranteed a response from the Host(s), mind you, if he’s oan it (FB) ah widnae bothir!!
——
Fellas – thanks very much for the replies.
I’ll make sure I have my specs before I head over there. Will check in later to say cheerio to CQN – have met some great people thriough this blog, so I thank Paul from the botttom of my heart for that.
I’m off now to give Wee BGFC the news. He’s his own bhoy, and can make his own mind up.
HH
BGFC
I’m not qualified in the least to comment on the merits or otherwise of Res12.
To me it feels morally right to pursue the SFA, but it is obviously a complex issue as judged by the efforts and time needed to bring it to the fore, despite the conspiracy of silence and inaction from the fraternity of brothers at Hampden, and elsewhere.
What IS painfully obvious, is that our board are not interested in putting any time, support or weight behind the resolution and would rather not have to face it.
Why?
Firstly, they are more interested in satisfying the large shareholders and board members than the every day supporter.
Secondly, they don’t want to incur the displeasure of their football association members who sit in self important positions in the Scottish football cabal.
Thirdly, they have made a calculation that as long as we are headed for ten, the stadium will be full each match day and the biscuit tins will be full.
All meant to maintain the status quo, keep the Apple cart steady and the gravy train running.. Or the many other idioms which apply.
A local morning radio talk Jock here used to use the expression
BOHICA
Bend over here it comes again.
It certainly applies in this instance.