There is no outrage louder than moral outrage, so I ignored this week’s stupidity by Kilmarnock chairman Michael Johnston, adding volume seemed moot, but if you look below the bonnet of this decision you’re likely to find the real story. Kilmarnock FC is in a critical condition.
They need your money this week, probably even more than they need the goodwill of their own fans. Mr Johnston’s most damaging folly has not been to offer Celtic fans a better deal than his own club’s supporters, it has been the failure to address the club’s financial imperative over a long number of years. Like another club I can think of, getting cash in the door is the only game in town, as a failure to do so would bring enormous consequences.
It is the Killie fans who suffer as “Speaking as a solicitor” Johnston clings to what passes for power at a busted flush. Don’t apologise for this week’s self-harming insult, instead be contrite about the actions which brought about the problem.
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TBB
The single biggest problem that faces Scottish football is the drop in the number of kids playing football in the streets, at school’s etc.
Look out your window tonight and see how many kids are kicking a ball about.
In my childhood there were millions of kids playing fitba in the streets ,youth clubs, and organised youth football.
The more beef you put in the sausage machine , the more sausages you get out at the end.
There are a multitude of reasons as to why that is.
Thatcher demotivated and disincentivised the teachers from after school football.
Increased road traffic.
Computers games etc , as an alternative .
A solution .
Community soccer coaches in every street.
One street playing another .
In the 60’s,70’s& 80’s every English Top league side had a smattering of Scots.
Now none of the top sides have a single scot holding down a regular place.
Darren Fletcher was the last .
(raised in Scotland)
Name me one player raised in Scotland ,who has been snapped up by an English club in recent times ,and has gone on to play consistently in a top EPL club.
The problem is not them leaving Scottish football to early .
It is the fact that kids are not playing 5 hours of football everyday,
Developing there ball skills.
They no longer have a ball at there feet for tens of thousands of hours before they are 16.
Previous era’s put in the hours, it may have been recreational , but it was definately beneficial.
So combine millions of less playing , with thousands of hours less practice , and you get the drop in standards that we have.
TT
‘GG
12:43 on
26 September, 2013
Mwahahahahaaaa.
Do a Dexter on them.
Cut them up and feed them to the fishes!
HT
I knew that they way you Glissade into the pubs
SwanLakeCSC
Guys,
A few weeks ago I posted on Health + Safety issues in the construction industry in Qatar and on the number and type of fatalities that are occurring and will continue to occur there.
It seems the MSM has finally caught on to this and both the Guardian + BBC are laeding with articles on this.
I know the stats schocked a few on here. Seems like these stats are now being brought out into the open.
Of course, the Qataris will say it’s a conspiracy by Sevco to deflect media attention from them ;-)
http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/sep/26/qatar-world-cup-migrant-workers-dead
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24282713
FF debates what is and is not offensive:
“Clyde 1 say this isn’t offensive
On the SSB facebook feed last night ref Zaluikas turning us down,
Hahaha turned down the monkeys get it up yous!!!
Clyde 1 said ,
With respect to this comment – one could argue about the extent to which it is offensive or not.”
——
“If someone called me a monkey I would just start jumping around and making the noise of a chimpanzee and see how they like that” [Not only would they like it, they’d expect it.]
——
“We didn’t start the word game but time we joined in.”
——
“Our problem is we laugh abuse off as banter while others feign offence at about everything. As a result our support is defamed and criminalised and they get to do and say what they want.
Why have they used the word monkeys? It is intended to dehumanise-you are a Rangers fan, you’re sub human.”
——
This guy thinks the comment came from a SSB presenter:
” Any broadcaster on an official portal of communication shouldn’t refer to any support in that vein.
It’s ridiculous and shows an utter lack of professionalism.”
——
“The guy hasnt used the full insult. From spending a very brief spell on one of the Scum boards i found out their nickname for us is the Monkey Huns and individually were known as a Monkey Hun B*****d.” [Never knew that – quite happy to run with it though.]
Hamiltontim is praying for Oscar
Stop moaning. I’m sure you’re £26 view from the Chadwick will be far superior to my £20 view from the Moffat :)
DBBIA
Tommy Burns admitted the same thing, with the talent that was in the squad, their biggest disappointment was not making some sort of dent on the European scene.
bobby murdoch’s curled-up winklepickers forza oscar and mackenzie
12:24 on 26 September, 2013
PAUL67
Being an Ayrshire lad,I always had a soft spot for Killie.Michael Johnson killed that.It is very much in the interests of the club and fans that they get rid if this guy.
Spits out mouthful of tea at young Picker’s comments…..!
Being an Ayrshire lad myself, I never had a soft spot for any Ayrshire team. I have never liked Killi from the first moments of attending their games at home against Celtic. Without doubt, the saying is true, they are ………. without the bus fare.
BMCUW …. ; )
Ayrshire is Green and White
And Killi are $^!&€…
HH
Scottish football’s problems started when the beast slithered
into ibrokes in the mid eighties……….I loved the football in the
period before…….we did not always win, but the game was
competitive and vibrant.
Whither the scrofulous cash strapped monk#y h#n b#st#rds the day?
DBBIA/OpentosuggestionCSC
Pmsl
tinytim 13.26
You are certainly making important points,but IMO the “Largs Mafia”are more guilty of the failing in Scottish football.
Their mantra was to pick the biggest and “fastest” boys because that was the easiest option for their poor coaching skills.I give you one guess the team the majority had a leaning for.The smaller but more skillfull boys were tossed aside.
H/Tim -and when we did we were undone by the cheatin’ cheats of Rancid Vienna.
Gggggrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
TinyTim
13:26 on
26 September, 2013
Thatcher demotivated and disincentivised the teachers from after school football.
Is there any depth to which she would not stoop?
Thatcher.The football snatcher.
Come on,pal.
Jonny the tim
Email sent
Tiny Tim
I can’t dispute that those aspects are all part of the mix, but do politely point out two things:
1) Football talent is now a global market. I recall looking Zaire up on the old atlas ahead of the 1974 World Cup. Now Africa produces some of the best players on the planet. Overriding facilities, coaching, practice and whatnot, is the numbers game. 26,000 boys are born in Scotland each year. Their talents are distributed across the spectrum. France produces 1 world class player each year from 10 times the talent pool. England much less. What ought we target/expect?
2) I think you might also be low-balling your estimate on participation. At our club, one of 12 football clubs in the town, we have 650 players participating from 4 years old to adult. The spare ground on my street is rarely short of a game in the evenings or the weekends. I can’t dispute that our kids have more sophisticated options for recreation, but they are the very same options that kids in Spain, Germany, Poland and elsewhere have. We may not have enough kids paying the game, but that is perhaps because we simply don’t have enough kids.
What we do with those who have the talent to earn money playing the game is an altogether different matter.
TBB
LivornoBhoy, have you got my email address yet, getting all the details sorted & tickets posted tonight is getting tight, no post here on Monday remember…september weekend.
Can Bank transfer when I get home
Let me know
HH
TBB
“Providing our clubs with the wherewithal to ensure the top talented kids stay in our top league for 3 or 4 years longer is, in my view, the single most important issue affecting the game here.”
I fear we would be throwing good money after bad. The lesson to learn, from all over Europe is that you need to be involved in a sought after competition (CL, EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga, Serie A, Ligue1 or ,perhaps, Russia and Ukraine at a stretch) to attract TV coverage and, thereby sponsorship. Celtic make the eyes of English TV and European TV footballing audience only via 6 games in the CL Groups stages (8 or 10 if we go further); nobody pays any attention to the League campaign games other than to note the winner.
The pre-Bosman, pre-massive TV domination, pre-agent era is not coming back anytime soon.
These effects are not limited to Scotland; they can be seen at 2nd tier level, where good footballers in The Netherlands and Portugal get less coverage than plodders in the major 5 leagues. It is even more magnified at 3rd tier level- countries with a great footballing tradition but either a smaller population or an impoverished economy (Scotland, Belgium, Poland, Czech Rep & Slovakia, etc:). Even with Belgium producing a golden generation of players they have not seen since the 80s, they will not enjoy any coverage of their Jupiter League and will remain a feeder league.
We can sink, with the rest of the Scottish game, to a semi-pro league like Sweden and Ireland, or we can get a change of scene and aim higher.
DBBIA
It is hard to argue that our 80s teams under-achieved, without invoking the non-explanatory concept of luck, since they failed consistently.
81- CWC – exit first round
82- EC-exit first round
83- EC-exit second round
84- UEFA- exit third round
85- CWC-exit second round
86- CWC- exit first round
87- EC- exit second round
88- Uefa- exit first round
89- EC-exit second round
A decade of mediocrity in Europe following our achievements in 79/80 season. And it deteriorated from that low level.
Tiny Tim-
Good points re participation levels and hours but Norway in the 90s and Iceland now invested in an elite training model to counteract this with some limited success.
But, you are basically right, we are not going to see a highly successful team of home grown Scots for some time, though I hope and believe that we will have a larger core again in the next decade as I think (evidence not in yet) that the next batch of teenagers have a few with something about them.
The view from TBBs front parlour
dontbrattbakkinanger
13:43 on 26 September, 2013Whither the scrofulous cash strapped monk#y h#n b#st#rds the day?DBBIA/
OpentosuggestionCSC
Possibly scurrying round Poundland turning off radiators and light switches?
fanadpatriot @ 13:44 said
Their mantra was to pick the biggest and “fastest” boys because that was the easiest option for their poor coaching skills. The smaller but more skillfull boys were tossed aside.
Fanand… I was heavily involved with youth football in those days with Eastercraigs and ANY time we were playing a team with an Ayebroke S-Form signing you knew the kid the moment the opponents came out of the dressing room. He was the giant of a kid for the particular age group, whether Under 14 or Under 16. In those games the oversize kid was generally successful, of course, but I paid attention over the years and never saw any of their giants make it through.
Dbbia,
Get it right timmy. Individually they are known as a monkey Hun bas&&&d.
Collectively they are known as monkey huns.
Not sure if the collective noun is barrell of monkey huns or cartload of monkey Huns. Perhaps a monkey Hun bast&&d on ff will advise.
The things you find on Wikipedia….this is about Eric Douglas, one of Kirk’s sons.
“Douglas entered British comedy folklore when, during a stand-up performance at The Comedy Store, London, he became angry by the audience’s reaction to his stand-up routine. This led to him shouting out, “You can’t do this to me, I’m Kirk Douglas’s son!” A member of the audience stood up and shouted “No, I’m Kirk Douglas’ son,” referring to the iconic “I’m Spartacus” scene of the 1960 film starring Kirk Douglas. This ended up with the majority of the audience standing up and repeating the line.”
That is a “wish I was there” moment.
And is there any truth in the rumour that an English sports journalist said that “they’ll be dancing in the streets of Morton”?
If Celtic were to get knocked out of any competition, I’d want it to be the league cup. As a Greenockian who went to every Morton home game in 1963/64, if Celtic had to lose to anybody, I’d want it to be Morton….but I was still shouting at the radio on Tuesday night.
hamiltontim is praying for oscar
13:40 on 26 September, 2013
DBBIA
Tommy Burns admitted the same thing, with the talent that was in the squad, their biggest disappointment was not making some sort of dent on the European scene.
***
Underlines my post on the last thread.
Trade off between open attractive football, at our level, but not transferable to Europe,
OR,
Dull pragmatic, hard to beat, defensive minded football, that has measured European success.
In 2012 Sir David Murray told the BBC: “I was primarily duped,” said Murray. “My advisers were duped, the bank was duped, the shareholders were duped. We’ve all been duped.”
Asked why he thought Whyte was the right man to take the club forward, after previously saying he would only sell to someone with Rangers’ best interests at heart, Murray replied: “Because he met the criteria that were in his offer document. He’s quite affable and plausible.
“I always remember someone said, ‘Does it pass the sniff test?’
“He was Scottish, he wasn’t a foreigner, he was supposedly a Rangers supporter, he had the money.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17364257
That is an interesting, no an astonishing piece of arrogance. What Murray is doing is using a euphemism to signal to the brethren that Whyte was one of the boys, a freemason, and as such he had to be trusted!
Google searches are not for the good old boys, it is Timmy who uses such devices.
On the subject of Masonry, the type that is not declared by judges and jurors there is a Scottish Parliament public petition containing 1,284 support signatures, but it is currently in the doldrums.
Can you help by signing it, or if you have signed it already, do you know anyone else who might be interested in bringing Scotland into line with Norway?
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/GettingInvolved/Petitions/judgesmasonregister
You know it makes sense!
That’ll be all on FF cancelling their subscriptions to Business Insider then.
monkey basket
and with a band uniform on as well.
http://mindofmullybizhausshoppe.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/flyingmonkey-2.jpg
Dontbrattbakkinanger
13:55 on
26 September, 2013
The view from TBBs front parlour
The man must type with one hand…….if you get
my meaning.
steviebhoy66
Still waiting on your e-mail address. Best thing is for you to e-mail me now on
LivornoBhoy@outlook.com
Hamiltontim is praying for Oscar
13:25 on
26 September, 2013
The last minute theatre tickets has been on the go for at least 20 yrs in London’s West End. When I was about to move back up about 10 years ago it was starting to get used on some sporting events. I’m aware of quite a few theatre’s doing similar up here but not on the same scale.
Lately they seem to be shifting to doing Groupon type deals for undersold events. Our neigbours have been to Moscow State Circus two years in a row getting Groupon deals at 1/3 of the original price.
Celtic have done in in a slightly different way, offering 5 match packages etc with a discount and I think it did work out one season that you could have seen every league game cheaper than having a season ticket.
I think the ideas fine, provided it’s only used when our allocation has sold out and the host club is offering extra tickets within a week of the game.
24 hours later and I still don’t feel any better re the league cup exit, or more specifically the manner in which we were ejected from the league cup, truly shocking, well it was for me,
Not after sympathy from anyone, just wanted to make an observation. I come on to CQN more often after we get beat than when we win, on these occasions I think it’s a place to go and have a good moan amongst fellow mourning Celtic fans, get it all off your chest so to speak. It’s not against Paul 67’s CQN rules and I’m guessing I’m not alone, lots of us who don’t normally post will be doing the exact same thing,
It doesn’t mean we’re huns and what I find it shocking that normal good guy CQNers can throw that accusation about so readily at other Celtic fans with no proof other than we’re on here after a defeat having a moan. From what I see there are no huns coming on here, only a very mixed bag of Celtic supporters with widely varying views on how they see Celtic’s performance or lack of
MICKTT
I’m older than you!
My soft spot for them dates back to Frank Beattie. Stevie Clarke’s brother played for them too
They’re not all huns without a bus fare. Just a helluva lot of them!
fanadpatriot
“but IMO the “Largs Mafia”are more guilty of the failing in Scottish football.
Their mantra was to pick the biggest and “fastest” boys because that was the easiest option for their poor coaching skills”
With respect, that is one of the great uninfomed myths about Scottish football.
Andy Roxburgh and Craig Brown deserve great credit for their ability as teaching coaches. The courses, developed and organised by those two and many others during their time at the SFA brought Coaching Education to tremendous new levels in Scotland. Anybody who attended them and listened and watched would be presented with info about how to develop basic skills of touch and control and movement. They de-emphasised tactics and shouting and physical training which were the great characteristics of most youth football managers in the 60s and 70s. They encouraged skill and not height and strength.
What was commonplace in other sports and in Eastern European and German football was introduced by Roxburgh, Brown & Co. into a generally unreceptive Scotland. It was radical and to be welcomed. It brought a graded, cetified and quality controlled element to what was previously haphazard. Scottish senior manager were more McGrory/Struth than Stein/Turnbull at the time.
Great coaches like Mourinho attended those courses because they were well structured and emphasised the good points of the game. Few other countries, England included, had developed such a good structure.
The Largs courses, were the pinnacle of the coaching pyramid. Many more youth coaches only benefited from the early stages and first touches element of the grades. Nonetheless, it gave them a set of tools to structure training sessions which emphasised ball work and did not leave quality issues to the vagaries of the person coaching and their previous football experience.
Despite all of this, they were prophets derided in their own country and, it is because of the rejection of the so-called Largs model that so many Scottish youth teams and coaches favoured the big strong boy over the wee lad. Pat Nevin was turned away from Celtic by a non-Largs trained coach as he was too wee (John Collins was told the same thing though travel may have been a factor for him too). Pat went on to be developed into a fine footballer (hate him as a pundit) by the self same Craig Brown.
Brown and Roxburgh have many faults but their coaching courses and what they emphasise are not one of them. I speak as a participant at a modest level. There was nothing wrong with the curriculum; there was a lot wrong with the calibre of some students who rejected the good advice and went back to their clubs only to pick the big strong early-to-develop physically guy who would give them instant results but be a liability at age 18.
Read the SFA materials. Attend the courses. You will find a much stronger emphasis on skill and participation than the myth suggests.
SFTB
It’s a funny thing, but when the big move was made by the peripheral nations of Europe to create an Atlantic League, when it was mooted that Celtic would be playing in the EPL within 5 years, when a Euro-Super League was considered just a matter of time away, Liam Miller made his debut for Celtic.
Building a strategy predicated upon what might happen in the future based upon what could have happened 15 years ago, but didn’t, hasn’t yet, and isn’t anymore probable today, is somewhat er… hopeful.
By the time we get round to accepting that it still hasn’t happened, another generation of footballers will have retired, and the game here will be no better.
We need to work with what we’ve got, plan with what we know. To do as you suggest – to do nothing because something better will surely come along soon – is simply a recasting of the Hope strategy. Actually, it reminds me of when I started smoking: I figured by the time it gave me cancer we’d have found a cure. I might have to revisit that one…
Let’s make what we have substantially better. That in itself will be more effective in precipitating the kind of change of scene you refer to than the wishful thinking we’ve become inured to over the past 15 years.
TBB
Emerald Bee
I can concur with that observation of Rangers Youth in the 90s. I saw a game at Carfin between the under 15s of both clubs. The Rangers guys were all 6 foot and strong runners (Alan Hutton clones) whilst Celtic had 9 McGarvey clones with the exception of the Centre forward who was a 6 foot Harry Handsome fair-haired lad. I don’t recall anyone of that build ever make it into Celtic under -21 level either.
Monkey Hun B*****d. PMSL
I think I’ll have to change my moniker to pogmathonyamonkeyhunb*****d
Hail! Hail! PMTYMHB
Kilmarnock are Celtic haters just like the zombies hearts and Motherwell withholding money will send them to join the Huns in there grave, boycott the Ayrshire Huns and let them die it’s for the best HH
The Moon Bhoys
14:14 on
26 September, 2013
I agree. I have not posted for some time but again noticed that the CQN guardians were quick to point out that non-regular posters should be looked out for as they will just be on to rant in the wake of a defeat and should be ignored.
It was like going up to a pub door and getting a knock back, ‘Not tonight, Sir, we lost, regulars only’
I’m not too sure what a regular poster is. I have posted regularly for about 7 years or so but not much in the last 12 months.
I always thought it was accepted that a bad result resulted in increased blog traffic.
Anyway, that’s twice I’ve posted today so I’m well on my way to being allowed to comment as a regular poster again!