I have a semi-regular correspondent, Raymie, who, over some considerable time now, has expressed concerns when Celtic play two central midfielders with two attack-minded players in the wide berths.
Intuitively, we should be attack minded against all Scottish opposition, especially at home, but football parks are big open spaces which requires a lot of industry to cover effectively. Scott Brown is the epitome of industry while Stefan Johansen appears to be cut from the same mould, but with James Forrest hugging the right touchline and Georgios Samaras playing his usual role on the left, Aberdeen had men over in central midfield, which ultimately determined the outcome of the game.
Neil Lennon seems to know not to play Forrest and Samaras together, they have only both started in wide positions in one league game since September, which was an uninspiring 0-1 win in Inverness. Forrest replaced an injured Kris Commons 28 minutes into a game at Easter Road in October, but although James scored Celtic’s only goal, this was one of only three league games this season we’ve dropped points.
The manager, of course, was part of a robust midfield in his time at Celtic, with Paul Lambert to one side of him and tough-tackling-always-running Alan Thompson to the other, although neither Lennon nor Lambert had the mobility of Scott Brown. It wasn’t until Martin O’Neill left and Gordon Strachan took over, that we got to see the likes of Nakamura on one wing and Maloney on the other.
If you were lining up against Celtic and realised they had two in central midfield your game plan would immediately crystallise. Teams will mostly face Celtic with only one striker, allowing five in the middle, most or all of whom will play tight. This creates a numerical advantage in the most crucial area of the field, and a basis to build forward moves on the occasions, however rare, they are able to do so.
Compare Saturday’s performances with the two comfortable wins over Aberdeen this season. In august the 0-2 victory was achieved with a midfield of Brown, Kayal, Ledley and Mulgrew. None known for their creativity but Celtic cruised nonetheless.
November’s 3-1 win saw Brown, Ledley, Mulgrew and Samaras in midfield; Aberdeen didn’t get a sniff.
One final word on the players……………
Most of us watched the away defeat to Shahkter Karagandy with some annoyance at the ITV commentators’ regular accusations that the players were not applying themselves appropriately. Neil Lennon gave voice to our objections after he heard the commentary while reviewing the game. The game went against Celtic but it was absurd to suggest the players were not applying themselves fully.
Reading comments on CQN and listening to the manager after Saturday’s game I felt we were in similar territory, with Neil saying, “We gave the players all the preparations needed”, “I can hardly single out any player, maybe James [Forrest] and Stokesy, to come out with any credit”, “There was a lack of composure, particularly in midfield and at full-back”.
I just don’t buy the lack of application or focus accusations which have been flying around here in recent days. Players spend all week gearing up for game time, when it looks different on the park, there is usually a tactical reason.
If you would like to read the new CQN Magazine, GO HERE to read properly, and for FREE, the graphic below is just a taster.
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BMCUW@15.20
Posting my words back to me tells only half the story. Suggesting that they were an attempt to suppress the formation of opinions adds a sour twist to their intention.
To re-cap, I was responding to a poster who suggested we review (sack) our managerial appointments because it “seemed” to the poster that they were not inputting anything worthwhile.
I replied by pointing out that this was a poor base from which to derive any decisions and that, both he and I, would need a lot more information before we could make any intelligent decision on that matter.
Now, you are trying to suggest that by replying to a poster point, I am stifling discourse on the blog, well I’m beat.
I am slowly coming round to Jungle Jim’s opinion. I have never before believed that opinions should be stifled.
But, when every attempt to counter a proposal that you think may be lacking in merit (or worse, when “striker coaches” are raised), is met with a cry of “you are bullying me/intimidating me/ denying me a voice”, I begin to wonder whether mineshafter opinion can actually handle the concept of a debate. Retreating into the “It’s just an opinion; I don’t need to justify it” will kill a topic stone dead and stifle all debate.
I’ve said before. If you want to post a comment but don’t want feedback, you should make that clear in your post. Maybe we could have an icon for those that just want to have their say but only want to hear from people who agree with them. I’d suggest an icon of someone cowering under bedsheets would convey the point.
Rant well and truly …. just started :-)
Cultsbhoy,
Sorry to say, but I’d go with 5.
In doing so, 1,2,3 & 4 make sense…..
SFTB
I would forget about the Barca game, didn’t matter what formation, tactics, players were employed that night, we would have got hammered anyway. It was coming in Europe because the simple fact is our players are not good enough to compete at that level on a regular basis. We can have great nights like Barca last season, we can also have the occasional good season in Europe but more often than not we’ll get KO’d and not qualify for knock out stages.
I don’t disagree with what you say about the other games against Hibs, Hearts, St J etc, but we have been putting in performances like that throughout the season no matter who plays or what the formation is. Our unbeaten league run is down to a very good defence where personnel changes have been limited to who the right back is.
I just think that with the players available then playing the formation we did against Hearts & Motherwell works best, and that couple of games have been the shining light domestically in an otherwise poor season from an entertainment perspective.
Kayal 33
I agree with your last two posts.
SFTB
Your stats earlier re James and Sammi. – the point being made , I thought, was that we should not play both in the same 11. Which your evidence seemed, to me, to verify.
Play One wide man only, especially when you have an entire back four capable of stepping forward with the ball, (another reason for having Chas or Nir available to cover for them). Neither James or Sammi can be relied on to cover, they do it when it pleases them, which is not good enough. It causes doubt in both full backs, the Clash scenario.
Secure possession of the ball is vital in a team game. Not controlling the ball and midfield means we never control the match. I want James and Kris in my starting 11 as they, plus our full backs, are our most creative players.
EC67
ShouldigoorshouldistaynowCSC
Interesting points from 79caps & turkeybhoy …
With a fit Lustig & Mathews in the side the ‘dependency’ on wingers ( not that I accept either JF & GS are out and out wingers anyway) is much less.
Both players come from deep and can move inside or out in combination with a midfielder AND one of the wide players usually JF. Both are tremendously athletic, have excellent speed and (particularly Adam) superb skill on the ball. I also think Adam has a rare footballing intelligence. Their absences has I think contributed to a certain turgidness in our use of the ball inhibiting fluid play and pass options.
I don’t think Izzy has been as well supported on the other side possibly because GS is a difficult player to work in combination with at least that’s the only reason I can come up with. That’s not to say Izzy has been poor – he hasnt.
Darnell has done v well but physically he has some way to go. I’d guess NL decided not to play him on Saturday because, I think, DF has been showing a few signs tiredness and he was IMO likely to be targeted by Aberdeen. It is right NL looks after the interests of young players in the longer term. It is a decision I think I would have made too.
The support of the full backs bulks up our midfield a bit so the 2 becomes a 3 or the three become a 4, at least at certain times.
It is one of the certainties of football that control of the midfield maximises the opportunity to win. Celtic & NL need to devise a way to prevent our wide players becoming isolated and de-linked from the midfield.
HH
Sometimes Sammi looks so lethargic during games I think he’s got his wallet in his back pocket.
Cults bhoy
Great rational post earlier….. good take on GS and MON eras.
Kayal33 @ 15.31
I like the look of that team
BMCUW 15:47 on 11 February, 2014 ………..
Will be in Englandshire tomorrow for all of 15 hours……. In Glasgow City Centre just now though, and it is Baltic………..
Anyway, blog stuff; I think you and SFTB are ‘baith wrang’………
Regards & Hail Hail
TBM
been busy off blog for a week or so but lurking away I managed to make Saturdays match.
We got beat
how we learn from it is what makes us stronger.
I often feel it is forgotten that it is a game,a sport we come to watch when viewing Celtic,11 v 11,played with integrity and within the rules.
There is no ‘right’ to win,that attitude and the identity died.
BRTH TBB on Adrian sproat 6/2. pages 8 & 13
Re Fergus/fan ownership and the use of Plc rules
I am not a shareholder but i want to ensure Celtic fans are sitting reflecting about their latest victory/defeat in 20,40,60 or 100 years time secure in the knowledge they are Celtic too.
I feel now is the time to pre plan and cut out any future uncertainty caused say if something happened to DD.This of course may already be done by him
I have complete faith in the stewardship of our board and only put forward my
suggestion for the betterment of Celtic.how we deal with DD’s ‘balanced’ shareholding is important to that future.
On the Celtic greats I dont agree with this one better than that one.I see our history more of a towering mountain range,There are 2 magnificent massifs towering over our history and identity.That of Brother Walfrid and Fergus McCann.
Always in Celtic
SgurrNaStriCSC:-)
Kojo,
You are right on the ball.
Aiden was a number 10 in waiting. Still waiting.
I reckon that JF would be good in the Commons role.
He has good feet and can go either side. He also can play a 1-2, plus knows where the goal is.
Did .i say that he also has pace?
BMCUWP.
I guess what happened next is not fit for the eyes of some of our more innocent posters.
But shoot ahead
Creative idea for the day !
Re the question of where do we play our CL qualifiers ?
Why not take the show on the road to Dublin or St Pauli or New York even somewhere or even Palma Majorca come to think of it ?
We talk of being a global brand ….. lets walk that talk.
Burnley78
16:00 on 11 February, 2014
A return to Seville??
I’ll be there at the time of the first round so for slightly selfish reasons!
Burnley78
16:00 on
11 February, 2014
I think unless there are exceptional circumstances UEFA dictate they must be played within the home team’s country, hence we’re using Murrayfield.
I hope NFL comes out before the next game and explains that the perceived format wasn’t
meant to be reliant on wide players being midfielders, and tracking back to cover.
He played favourites/ or seniors, Mulgrew was injured Samaras was the replacement and Commons is considered part of the midfield, as has been posted since Saturday.
He needs to tell the Internet we didn’t only play two midfielders.
SFTB
I KNOW it is not what you said but I have a feeling if we had a conversation over a pint or two, you would begin to move closer to my view on the meaningless ( or maybe abuse ) of the oft quoted ” everyone is entitled to an opinion” cliche.
PS Kayal
I like the look of that team ,too but , at the same time, am an admirer of Biton. Fortunately, we have many on here who can help Neil with that dilemma 0:-)
Philbhoy,
I tried the three wood…….hit it about 150 yard past the green! see what happens when one listens to the advice of others?
JJ
SFTB I take on board the statistical points you are making. I just know when we play two wingers and Kris that we struggle. I have no stats to back it up just my memory. Ok drink might cloud it…;-)
Totally off topic-embdae bought the New York City Pass,$180 each,but looks good value.Thanks in advance.
Burnley78
I think UEFA rules prohibit this. Rapid was an exception as the penalty stated that the game couldn’t be played within a 200 mile radius of Glasgow.
JJ
I select a seven iron, hit it badly and fail to reach the green. Nothing wrong with the selection.
It’s the boreds fault for not buying a striker…
Kayal33
Agree on ignoring the Barca result and lessons to be learned, at least till next season’s CL final :-)
I agree with most of the rest, except that I have enjoyed many other matches and performances as much or more than the two in early December.
It is great to absolutely cream the mini-huns and Motherwell but I take as much joy and appreciation when we beat a team that is playing well and opposing us. I enjoyed our Ajax home win and the more recent 3:0 win against Motherwell because it was more of a game and test for us.
Eurochamps
I was not countering or indeed arguing for or against playing 1 or 2 wingers. I was pointing out that we’ve won matches well with 2 wingers and lost them badly with 2 wingers. The same goes for a 1 winger formation and a diamond formation.
I do not believe the evidence is at all clear cut but, my point, as always, is that it has a lot more to do with the form and application of players than with the tactics and team layout, which are, in my view, over-rated. I am pro-tactical thinking and coaching but I don’t believe that football is a chess game between two puppet masters.
SFTB
I hadn`t seen your reference to my views when I typed my 16.06 post. Honest !
yorkbhoy
I`ll remember that next time I miss a putt.
JJ
setting free the bears supports Res. 12 & Oscar Knox
13:44 on
11 February, 2014
I am glad you set out Forrest’s contribution on Saturday. 5 goal scoring opportunities against a tram who are winning the midfield aint bad imo. Just one converted and those with an anti Forrest agenda are silenced until the next bad result.
I do admire your constant attempts to introduce informed comment into the footballing debate.
I never bother because the object of criticism is only as bad as his last game and there is always going to be a next one and some folk just wait for the next bad one and miss the good ones.
Its the uncertainty that creates the debate and by its nature it will be unbalanced if only based on the last match, so keep on truckin.
“…. I don’t believe that football is a chess game between two puppet masters.”
It MUST be! How else would some guys know after twenty minutes what to change to ensure victory?
JJ
FFin’ mortgage fraud:
“L[aw] well announced they have no bank debt and all the rags are happy to publish this nonsence. if it were true , why the hell does the low rate Co-op have security on every bit of land they own ?
weird that , isnt it ??
or is this another example of the club mis leading the shareholders and the press doing as they are told , ie keep quiet.?”
——
“It sounds like GCC have allowed stateaid FC to use land which they haven’t paid for yet as security for a loan with the co-op”
——
“Mortgage fraud…..plain as that”
——
“Keep us posted on this one, this could be absolute dynamite”
——
“It is bad enough that the whole shenanigans re the land deal BUT if they haven’t paid for it yet that’s explosive stuff.
GCC sell land at fraction if its value and don’t even ask for the money up front or at time of exchange of deeds?!?!”
——
“More importantly is the riddle of how one of the other companies in the pyramid obtained high mortgages [at low interest rates] on cheap land or how the debts owed to another company are being paid via Gibraltar avoiding taxes which should be paid here in the UK.”
——
“We should be hiring a solicitor / PR professional to pursue this.
GCC, Police Scotland, Holyrood, Westminster, UEFA SFA etc. need to be called out re this.
If we don’t go after them and they get away with it again the game will be a bogey.”
——
“RFFF money should be used to investigate this fully.
If they are guilty and there is no smoke without fire then we should chase them to prove their guilt and financial doping and state aid.
The RFFF money is sitting doing nothing and we should use this resource to hit back at our enemies.”
——
“It’s got to be done now. Strike while the iron is hot.
If we done this properly we could finish Lawwell off here.
When will the fightback begin?”
——
“Had a look at this and it’s all above my head unfortunately
maybe some of the more able bears can comprehend and explain”
If I remember correctly Aberdeen started to make inroads after Adam had been injured. Broonie dropped back to help Adam and Aberdeen started to flood that area winning free kicks and corners.
Just a point, this was the same area of the pitch that Hibs had done well in two weeks earlier.
Kauall33
===============Forster=================
Matthews=====Lustig===Van Dijk=====Izaguirre
===============Mulgrew================
=========Biton=========Johanssen======
===============Commons==============
========Griffiths==========Watt========
You will see I’ve recalled Tony Watt, dropped Ambrose and Brown and called up Matthew.
CultsBhoy
Watt is contracted to Lierse until May.
Sftb
Your stats show that only in two of those games both sammi and james played.
We sure cant afford both playing at same time
Monaghan1900
16:19 on
11 February, 2014
I think this is the ideal way to spend RFFF money. If I was on there I’d be suggesting Pinsent Masons for the job.
Cultdbhoy
a strong looking team but Lustig is our best right back since Daniel Fergus McGrain so i would always play him there. Would like to think Watt will return but can’t see it
Heres to you Favourite Uncle and your good lady 45 years and still goin strong well done.
I found your posts this morning cheery,I smiled as last night i gave gave my neice,my mothers wedding ring as she was first grangaughter .As they say its only history that trickles down
hail hail to Mr & Mrs Fav Uncle and good luck to the newlyweds
CelticequalsfamilyCSC
thomthetime
at 1559
Thanks fur the Nod..Pal..
Ah appreciate it.
Sure, Ah kid aroon.. n .. Kid Aroon.. But….
Many a Truism is Said.. In Jest.
Ah hiv a Cynical View o’ the World.. Canny Help it…
it’s jist whit Ah Am….
Look, pal… Jist because it hiz alwliz bin done..”That Wey”.. disnae Always mean that
a fresh Approach should no be ..well.. Precluded( Great woid, that, but Ah widda used.. Excluded…ed).. Dealin’ with..
WHIT…tae ME..(Anywey).. Has Turned intae a STUMBLING BLOCK..
‘
n.. as ye know.. Kojo…Jist Hates… A Stumbling Block..
Don’t You?
Frankly speaking..
Forrest’s Talent is Wasted.. Ninety Percent..at least..
During the Game..
Fur Long , Long, Long,Long.. Periods. He is … A wee Forgotten Soul.. Waiting..n Waiting.. fur..
Godot???
He may as well Be…
Noo, if wan his a Useful.. well. Utility.. Then One Should ..well… USE that Utility.. Right?. fir that is whith Ye Dae…wi a Utility..
Noo Forrest,if ye Pardon the Expression …is a Utility.
Celtic’s…In Ma Opinion..
MAIN…n… AT TIMES…
ONLY. WAN.
Yet ,like Ah hiv already mentioned.. Wee Jamesie is Left in Stark Isolation..
This Is Downright Silly…
Although,oan Occasion.. wee Jamesie Decides tae Come INSIDE.. oan his Oanio..
n.. When He diz.. then Things Begin Tae Pop.. n Gurgle..
So .. why is He No .. well.. Permanently.. INSIDE???
We are simply not receiving the required Bang fur oor Buck..in this Case.
Forrest, Again..In Kojo’s Reckoning Book..
Is OOR MAIN MAN…
When he Sparkles.. Celtic, Shines.
He maks things Happen.. He is Oor Weapon of Destruction.. He is the Key.. that kin Unlock.. a Ten Man Defensive Wa’
Yet.. again .. Let me Remind Ye..
Celtic, Do not Use His Supreme tae the Full..
Because. we are tied tae this hoary n Ancient..
“Play yer Maist Skillful n Talented Player.. Way, Way oot..oan the Wing.”
Is it in case he Gets Hoit?
Hmmmmmmmmm..
Anywey.. we Must sit doon n don oor Thinkin’ Caps.. Throw away oor Beanies.. wi the Propeller oan Top..
And Figger oor where wid be the Most Effective.. Bang fur Yer Buck.. Position.. in oor
Team Formation. to Pit Ye maist Skillful n Talented Player.
Kojo
Still,Laughin
It’s not the number on your back or your shape when in possession that matters per se. It’s your shape and industry when the opposition have the ball that matters most.
Niall McGinn. Winger, attacking midfielder it wing back last Saturday?
Answer. All of the above depending on situation, context and actions of the other team.
That requires intelligence, industry and fitness. He and many other dons had it on sat. We didn’t.
And if the 11 who start the game can’t see that and work it out…and still can’t come the 2nd half then surely Biton comes on ASAP for GS or JF?
Right. Enough looking back for me. Bring in St Johnstone. And let’s play well ghuys.
HH jamesgang
TBJ
“Your stats show that only in two of those games both sammi and james played.
We sure cant afford both playing at same time”
The stats also show that there were only 2 games where neither made an appearance. Can I also deduce, therefore, that we need one winger?
It is still an argument against this morning’s contention that we should follow Alf Ramsay’s 66 template.
Good football happens when good footballers play good football.
When good managers draw up modern formations you just get a nice Abstract Expressionist drawing.
Forster
Lustig van Djik izaguirre
Brown Biton Johansen Mulgrew
Forrest Commons
Griffiths.
I am a big fan of Efe`s style of play but we are only allowed eleven and I want Biton in there.
JJ
BSR
I don’t play by the rules….even my own!