On the road this week so today’s blog is by author Stephen O’Donnell:
Pick the bones out of that! I didn’t see Legia against St. Patrick’s Athletic in the previous qualifying round, but by all accounts they were fairly unimpressive, even in winning 5 – 0 in Dublin. I was even tempted to have a wee bet on Celtic to win by more than one goal on Wednesday night, and by the time my hastily arranged subscription to Premier Sports had come through things were looking good after Callum McGregor’s early strike.
Sadly, it didn’t last. It’s a measure of how poorly Celtic played on the night that they were lucky to escape from Warsaw with a 4 – 1 defeat because, let’s face it, but for Fraser Forster and some wayward penalty taking, it could have been worse.
As expected, it didn’t take long for the Celtic Newsnow stream to start filling up with tales of anguish and pontification from the mainstream media. From AEK Athens to Maribor, the list of European failures at certain other clubs (including one that is now defunct) is long and distinguished, but nothing gets the SMSM in full gloating mode like a painful Celtic defeat on the Continent.
On Wednesday we were reminded about Artmedia Bratislava, Utrecht, Karagandy etc., I even heard Neuchatel Xamax being mentioned at one point. The key of course is that there is no context and analysis provided when these previous losses are dragged up, Celtic supporters simply have to suffer such painful reminders.
This lack of constructive analysis is a pity because there are comparisons and parallels that can be usefully drawn with previous chastening experiences in Europe. It seems that new Celtic managers are particularly vulnerable to them; Tony Mowbray initially enjoyed a successful preseason, including winning the Wembley Cup, but his first competitive game was a 1 – 0 home defeat to Dynamo Moscow. Neil Lennon had Utrecht and Braga, and of course Gordon Strachan had Artmedia.
It’s what happened in Bratislava that I think has most relevance to Wednesday night – a new manager in post, replacing a club legend, trying to introduce a more cerebral approach, a squad clearly divided amongst those who are still pining for the previous incumbent and those who want to move on and embrace the new manager’s methods… the parallels in fact are numerous and really quite striking. Hopefully this is a sign that Ronny, like WGS before him, will turn this early setback around and grow into the role of Celtic manager.
One of the most important aspects of managerial success is the chemistry between the boss and his players. This lack of a connection in the dressing-room and on the training field is the reason John Collins failed at Hibs; it’s why Mowbray didn’t last out a season at Celtic. If the chemistry isn’t right then the team will lack focus, motivation and game intelligence at crucial times in the season, and these traits were all conspicuous by their absence in both Warsaw and Bratislava.
But chemistry takes time, it didn’t come immediately to either Lennon or Strachan, and Ronny Deila still has the opportunity to get his progressive ideas across and win the respect and admiration of his squad. If that happens then, like Lenny and WGS before him, he will go on to lead Celtic to domestic and European success.
In the meantime, there is the second leg still to come. If the parallels with Artmedia and Karagandy are to be heard in the media again then Legia could yet be in for a tough night next week. The tie is most certainly not over and it will slowly be dawning on the players who let themselves down on Wednesday that there is only one way to make up for what happened.
Pride and defiance have to come to the fore again, and the situation is still retrievable. All the ingredients are there for a potentially famous night at Murrayfield next Wednesday.
Follow Stephen O’Donnell on twitter @stephenodauthor
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Blantyre – It was the return leg and after Marshalls disaster in Artmedia Boruc replaced him.
As for who is better then I’m a FF man although I loved big Artur.
leftclicktic
16:41 on
1 August, 2014
Has anyone else lost interest in the transfer window, as the chances of us doing something to grab our attention days, seem to have gone.
hopeitchangessoonCSC
l due respect, what planet are you living on.
For Celtic, transfer activity of the inward kind does not begin until cash comes in from sales.
Sftb,
We have a well paid scouting system that should be looking for such players, as you say, it’s just a suggestion.
On leave now……bad news for yo, since I may be posting more often … Hahahahahahaha
I posted before the season began that it would be more difficult than before to navigate the qualifiers.
Stating the obvious, I quoted a new management team, Murrayfield, players at the WC, along with the ridiculous early start.
I thought that the Europa would be a realistic aim and perhaps, the preferable one.
As for this season strategy.
For various reasons, the opportunity to introduce young players to the squad was two years ago. This wasn’t done.
Last year, a compromise was made by sending the more likely candidates out on loan, giving thr first team football, but denying them the experience of being integrated into the Celtic team.
It has all cone to a head now, when we are struggling to qualify for Europe and have to begin introducing youths, to produce a settled squad ahead of the likely infestation in the Premier League next season.
Two wasted years, where the manager’s personal CV meant more than the team/club’s development.
big wavy. Fraser Forster is a fine keeper he has for me two areas he needs to improve on firstly coming off his line at corners to collect high balls secondly communication with his defenders.Now I dont know how fit Craig Gordon is but in my opinion in both these areas he is better than big Fraser. H.H.
traditionalist88
15:46 on
1 August, 2014
Coz there isn’t a SPL one
Neil Lennon is a good guy, a Celtic man, a club stalwart. He is entitled to an opinion and to voice it. However, some men of giant Celtic stature have chosen in the past not to voice their opinion. I think this is a route Neilly Bhoy should consider. Giving soundbites might play well to the galleries for a while – but Celtic supporters like to keep their considerable bickering in house in my experience. We don’t like ‘our own’ pointing out faults we know we have to the rest of the world – even when the rest of the world knows them already.
It might also make Neil look a little bitter if it becomes a pattern of behaviour.
Good evening all. Aff oot……
RobertTressell
17:00 on
1 August, 2014
Neil Lennon is a good guy, a Celtic man, a club stalwart. He is entitled to an opinion and to voice it. However, some men of giant Celtic stature have chosen in the past not to voice their opinion. I think this is a route Neilly Bhoy should consider. Giving soundbites might play well to the galleries for a while – but Celtic supporters like to keep their considerable bickering in house in my experience. We don’t like ‘our own’ pointing out faults we know we have to the rest of the world – even when the rest of the world knows them already.
It might also make Neil look a little bitter if it becomes a pattern of behaviour.
Good evening all. Aff oot……
All very good. However, whether in house or not, some things need saying.
And despite pious pronunciations to the contrary, when it comes to digging deep PL and DD are not at the races.
Sure they have to look after shareholders interests.
The problem is that various Celtic shareholders have varied interests.
Mine are on the park, not in my pocket.
Stephen, if you are looking in, I thought that was a well written article.
I get the point about connection. In the case of Mowbray – and quite possibly Delia – the lack of connection may be down to the same thing.
I hated the idea of Tony managing Celtic. Why? He had openly talked about his ‘philosophy’. A philosophy that got his team relegated from the EPL. After a defeat at Old Trafford, he said he wouldn’t change, that he had a philosophy as to how football should be played, and he was going to stick to it. That was at a point when they weren’t quite in the bottom 3. His problem was, he didn’t have the players with which to make his approach successful.
Now, I don’t know enough about what is going on at Celtic to know whether we are in a similar state. But RD has introduced a high pressing game that does several things.
First, it requires high levels of energy and intelligence. We have attackers and midfielders who are able to produce one of these – but few who can deliver both.
Second, it automatically leaves a 3 man midfield vulnerable. You press high, don’t win the ball back, the opposition passes into the middle 3rd, and if they do that quickly, it becomes 3 against 5.
Third, there is a ripple effect that puts pressure on our defence. There is a reason that NL usually played a holding midfielder. He knew that his centre backs needed support and protection.
Now, I am not saying that RD is wrong to want to install this new philosophy. What I am saying, is that I don’t think he has the players suited for it. Not now, at any rate.
The thing is, players are not stupid. They know that some of these things are happening, and that they put us at risk. This can be the seed of doubt that causes them to distrust the coach. And we all know how that movie ends.
As an aside, RD’s decision to play his new player from the start was a huge slap in the face to some of the players he left out. That won’t have helped in building trust. It would have, if the new guy had excelled.
New coaches can chose between ‘sea change’ or gradual change. Sea change requires one extremely vital ingredient. Support from the board. If the current players can’t or won’t deliver in a new system, get some in who will.
Two examples of this spring to mind. Arsene Wenger at Arsenal. Tony Adams led a delegation to meet with the chairman in an effort to get rid of the newly appointed, fitness freak from France. Adams lost and Arsenal won. But it takes money.
And there was Paul LeGuen……
So, bottom line: A change in philosophy often means a change in (some) key players. We may be implementing a strategy that is bound for failure. It is too late to get players in to save our CL season. Only lady luck and the efforts of the current squad can do that.
Big wavy
it’s all about opinions and imo you’re wrong 8))
KTF
thomthethim for Oscar OK
…spot on. The remit when the other mob died should have been clear. Free run at CL for at least 4 years. NL’s task should have been two-fold.
1. Get there. Each time.
2. Use a stress free domestic league to really push the best of our young talent.
Trying to attain meaningless unbeaten streaks left too many kids on the bench.
In the immortal words of Irving Berlin, “There may be trouble ahead”
Dunno if it’s been posted yet but I’d suggest the powers that be are setting themselves up for a pow wow…
From Celticfc.net
“If you’re not a Season Ticket holder yet you can buy your Season Ticket before 5pm on Monday and we’ll include your Legia Warsaw ticket free.
A Season Ticket entitles you to attend 21 home matches, one of which was last week’s match against KR Reykjavik so in the interest of fairness we have taken the decision to include the Legia Warsaw match for those who purchased a season ticket following the KR Reykjavic match.”
In the interest of fairness many new ST holders would have rather have held off subscribing and getting a 3rd round 3rd round qualifier than a 2nd round freebie, even if it is a dead rubber.
Oh ye of little faith – Matthew 8:26
Oddly enough I think the atmosphere might be better at m field next week. More like a giant away support.
HH.
Trying to catch up.
Mike in Toronto – Some good points. Your last sentence however, is how more and more of the lifeblood of the club are feeling.
AGCR – Ask these guys a question…
http://www.mcginleyspub.com/contact-us/
If you are more remote, I may be able to help you.
Get my Email from Paul.
Anyone else hear about a news conference at 9pm tonight and what it is about or is it just another silly rumour ? H.H.
Still semi comatose having got back from Warsaw very late last night. The parallels with Artmedia were being made by many of the fans in the stadium during the long wait to be ‘released’ after the final whistle. To be fair though a lot of that wait was due to the club organising taxis for the fans (couldn’t persuade some of the players!) to get us back to our hotels safely. Thank you John Paul!!
It’s been interesting reading Neil Lennon’s contributions over the last couple of days. To me one of his most telling quotes was that the reaction by some of the support to a defeat like this is always ‘over-hyped and exaggerated’ and boy have we seen that again! The call by one blogger for us all to unite together against the board a la 1994 epitomises this. Similarly some bloggers seem to think that if we don’t use their extreme language then somehow we’re not hurting enough. I even got criticised by one guy when I said that the fans sang ‘Over and Over’ when some players came out for a cool down after the game. Apparently we should have booed them and thrown flags on to the pitch.
It’s also interesting to see how some fans want to make a distinction between the club and the business side of life. Seems like the MSM have won the case in persuading folk that they’re somehow different entities!! My understanding is that we need to make a profit on transfer fees to keep the current show on the road (Paul please correct me if I’m wrong) and the state of our accounts are much more complex than a mere comparison of player sales/purchases.
We’re all hurting after Wednesday night and are dealing with it in our own way but the lack of respect towards fellow supporters shown by some fans is depressing (more so than the actual result in many ways).
As for the football (!) much of it’s been said and I thought our manager gave a fair summary. From our vantage point, high up behind the goal that McGregor scored in, it was clear that we had no shape. I’ve taken to try and see where the space is when watching games and there was so much of it within our defence on Wednesday. Efe has had a lot of flack but there are few who emerge with any credit. The space between Efe and Virgil was criminal, was that just Efe’s fault? Virgil made some good tackles on Wednesday but we saw again that he is still learning his trade and has loads of potential but needs time. Mulgrew had a game that was Caldwellesque. Indeed did big Gary ever have a game as bad as that? Benfica away maybe? The midfield were over run and Legia played the way that Deila wants us to play, ie they were pressing us high up the park and winning the ball back very quickly when they lost it. It was noticeable that we abandoned trying to pass the ball out of the defence in the second half and just blootered it up the park.
My mood about next week has swung between pessimism to blind optimism and I’ve no doubt that come 7:45pm next Wednesday I’ll be in my seat believing that we can do it. That’s what we have to do and we have to transmit this to the players. Their confidence would have been shot to bits this week but they are have not suddenly become a bad team. It was good hearing Ronny talking about revenge next week. That’s how the players need to feel, determined to show what they can do. Oh, and can we have Griffiths playing in a centre forward role? We need goals and he’s the most natural goal scorer we have.
KTF
“3rd round 3rd round qualifier” – Jimmy Two Times, Goodfellas
RobertTressell at 16.50
Hits the nail on the head, mate.
Hankray,
no probs, Hail Hail
The funny thing about the EPL is that outwith its top top clubs there is a fair amount of mediocrity.
Most games are seen by people via MOTD style highlights clips which like youtube makes them all look great.
The one thing they do extremely well is marketing which we are all too aware of. But when Hull can get to the top level and survive comfortably you know its maybe not all its cracked up to be.
Everton are a big club in their own right a couple of hundred miles down the road who recently paid ~28m for a striker. Their stadium holds about 20k less than our own and yet we would have to think seriously before paying 5m despite competing in the CL 8 times since 2001.
We are not the only ones affected thankfully and its a situation that is surely unsustainable. We are in a good position to benefit when the right moment arises, hopefully sooner rather than later.
HH
Big wavy
Marshall kept his place after 0-5 defeat and played at Motherwell on the Saturday in a season opening 4-4 draw
THG competitive debut was the Artmedia return
http://uk.soccerway.com/players/artur-boruc/724/
Timaloy@16.42
An analysis was completed on Vic before and after his hairline fracture last year. Before his injury Southampton were shipping much less than a goal a game and were one of the top eight teams in the “three” top European leagues.
Vic’s injury coincided with a disastrous defensive run of form which saw them shipping over 2.5 goals per game and a plummet down the league table.
Not all down to Vic’s injury I would assume but it certainly did not help because of the way he protected their back four.
All about opinions.
I said to some Celtic fans that Neil Lennon’s punditry during the World Cup was a bit odd, when he mentioned Celtic players, Samaras and Ambrose and overly was critical. It’s pretty evident now that the rumours of a fall out, or if you like an impasse was reached in his career. Taking a call from Radio 5 the day after Celtic were thrashed in Europe, was about NFL’s profile, and here am I, still looking to coach.
The interview in it’s entirety was supportive of RD but cryptically critical of how Celtic operate in the development of the club, I also said the interview was unlikely to be repeated, or expanded on. But it was enough to sell the papers.
We now have MSM digging out an interview with Barry Ferguson with an embarrassing parallel trying to be drawn with PLG, and the culture at that helped us on the way to Diedbrox. We had the same before a ball was kicked and how JC was ‘hated’ in the Easter Rd dressing room.
We know what happened when RD played his side, we’ll never know how we’d have gotten on with a NFL team selection, and it remains rich that he mentioned lack of development when RD finds it impossible to field some of NFL’s transfers in.
During the interview NFL practically admits his time was up at Celtic and development wasn’t the key issue, he should dry up and let Celtic get on with the rebuilding, because there are more than enough detractors hoping the Deila choice will fail, you could be excused for thinking we even have them on CQN.
He’s my Celtic yesterday man.
I have no problem with NL’s comments in the last couple of days. He’s been there and done it so he knows what he’s talking about.
The only issue I have is that if NL had spent better last season on his limited budget we might not be in as bad shape as we currently are.
bournesouprecipe. I 100% agree we have moved on from Lennie we must get behind the new manager. H.H.
Allgreen
Or wasted his limited budget?
Stephen et al
Not so much a parallel more a parallax, the result of looking at the same thing from different viewpoints. Or as they say in Glasgow, you gotta know your angles!
Of course we still have a chance next week, and scoring the first goal would give us all a bit of hope. I mentioned yesterday that we are just as likely to get a tougher tie in a EL qualifier than the next CL round so may as well give our absolute all at Murrayfield. Any player looking for greener grass, should be aware, that while it takes effort to gain a good reputation in football it does not take much to lose it, take note all those who think other clubs are lining up to buy them. I would have thought Lee Griffiths, an Edinburgh bhoy, would at least get a start next time round, and think we would be worth a couple of goals in the match. That, with good concentration in midfield and defence will give us the chance I have mentioned. It will not get easier in the Europa League.
Fencelt, great post, agree with all of that. My 20 minute walk home from the pub on Wednesday was bad enough and I can only imagine how bad you guys who traveled to Warsaw must have felt. Respect to each and every one of you.
Griffiths must start as our penalty box striker next week
quonno
17:05 on 1 August, 2014
RobertTressell
17:00 on
1 August, 2014
Neil Lennon is a good guy, a Celtic man, a club stalwart. He is entitled to an opinion and to voice it. However, some men of giant Celtic stature have chosen in the past not to voice their opinion. I think this is a route Neilly Bhoy should consider. Giving soundbites might play well to the galleries for a while – but Celtic supporters like to keep their considerable bickering in house in my experience. We don’t like ‘our own’ pointing out faults we know we have to the rest of the world – even when the rest of the world knows them already.
It might also make Neil look a little bitter if it becomes a pattern of behaviour.
Good evening all. Aff oot……
All very good. However, whether in house or not, some things need saying.
And despite pious pronunciations to the contrary, when it comes to digging deep PL and DD are not at the races.
Sure they have to look after shareholders interests.
The problem is that various Celtic shareholders have varied interests.
Mine are on the park, not in my pocket.
================================
Never said they didn’t need saying. Some people though, unfortunately, for right or for wrong, will only get grief for saying them in public.
Just my opinion.
Whither Awe The Happy,Smilin’ Faces…
The Dae..?
—
weeron
17:11 on
1 August, 2014
100% agree with you. It is however the Board’s responsibility to ensure the correct strategy was followed. If NL didn’t agree then a difficult decision should have been taken for him.
Is the Celtic – Spurs game on TV tomorrow?
Ta.
RobertT
The crowds we get lately dwarf ‘big’ crowds of the 80s, with few exceptions.
A typical crowd was 25,000 then, 35,000 for an interesting game, and only the biggest matches sold out (67,000).
There are some folk who reckon the core support is the 25-30,000 we had typically during that period, and that’s where the bottom of the slide sits. Certainly the +50,000 averages from ’96 onwards were incongruous with what we had seen in the post war decades.
I didn’t buy a season ticket for the new stadium purely because I figured there would never be a problem getting a ticket for a Celtic game at a 60,000 seater Celtic Park. How wrong was I!
Fergus changed the mentality. Supporter = Attender from that point onwards, until the last 5 years or so, when a combination of factors has conspired to diminish attendance.
TBB
Where does the £30 a game stuff come from. My book works out £20 a game good value considering I’m getting to watch Celtic. Personally I would pay more if it was to improve team.
DEILA OUT
Magnificentseven and mon the hoops!
Thanks guys il register tonight
B-)
Again i ask the Question who recommended players ,Bangura, Derek , Balde,Pukki , Ambrose ,Mattehews,etc etc. to be given contracts at Celtic.
fencelt
Cracking post mate, I spent most of the game looking for our shape!!
Today’s Will Sellars prize for phlegmatic pragmatism goes to…
…Bournesouprecipe
Who receives a virtual souvenir soup Quaich and a crackerjack pencil.