On the road this week so today’s blog is by author Stephen O’Donnell:
Pick the bones out of that! I didn’t see Legia against St. Patrick’s Athletic in the previous qualifying round, but by all accounts they were fairly unimpressive, even in winning 5 – 0 in Dublin. I was even tempted to have a wee bet on Celtic to win by more than one goal on Wednesday night, and by the time my hastily arranged subscription to Premier Sports had come through things were looking good after Callum McGregor’s early strike.
Sadly, it didn’t last. It’s a measure of how poorly Celtic played on the night that they were lucky to escape from Warsaw with a 4 – 1 defeat because, let’s face it, but for Fraser Forster and some wayward penalty taking, it could have been worse.
As expected, it didn’t take long for the Celtic Newsnow stream to start filling up with tales of anguish and pontification from the mainstream media. From AEK Athens to Maribor, the list of European failures at certain other clubs (including one that is now defunct) is long and distinguished, but nothing gets the SMSM in full gloating mode like a painful Celtic defeat on the Continent.
On Wednesday we were reminded about Artmedia Bratislava, Utrecht, Karagandy etc., I even heard Neuchatel Xamax being mentioned at one point. The key of course is that there is no context and analysis provided when these previous losses are dragged up, Celtic supporters simply have to suffer such painful reminders.
This lack of constructive analysis is a pity because there are comparisons and parallels that can be usefully drawn with previous chastening experiences in Europe. It seems that new Celtic managers are particularly vulnerable to them; Tony Mowbray initially enjoyed a successful preseason, including winning the Wembley Cup, but his first competitive game was a 1 – 0 home defeat to Dynamo Moscow. Neil Lennon had Utrecht and Braga, and of course Gordon Strachan had Artmedia.
It’s what happened in Bratislava that I think has most relevance to Wednesday night – a new manager in post, replacing a club legend, trying to introduce a more cerebral approach, a squad clearly divided amongst those who are still pining for the previous incumbent and those who want to move on and embrace the new manager’s methods… the parallels in fact are numerous and really quite striking. Hopefully this is a sign that Ronny, like WGS before him, will turn this early setback around and grow into the role of Celtic manager.
One of the most important aspects of managerial success is the chemistry between the boss and his players. This lack of a connection in the dressing-room and on the training field is the reason John Collins failed at Hibs; it’s why Mowbray didn’t last out a season at Celtic. If the chemistry isn’t right then the team will lack focus, motivation and game intelligence at crucial times in the season, and these traits were all conspicuous by their absence in both Warsaw and Bratislava.
But chemistry takes time, it didn’t come immediately to either Lennon or Strachan, and Ronny Deila still has the opportunity to get his progressive ideas across and win the respect and admiration of his squad. If that happens then, like Lenny and WGS before him, he will go on to lead Celtic to domestic and European success.
In the meantime, there is the second leg still to come. If the parallels with Artmedia and Karagandy are to be heard in the media again then Legia could yet be in for a tough night next week. The tie is most certainly not over and it will slowly be dawning on the players who let themselves down on Wednesday that there is only one way to make up for what happened.
Pride and defiance have to come to the fore again, and the situation is still retrievable. All the ingredients are there for a potentially famous night at Murrayfield next Wednesday.
Follow Stephen O’Donnell on twitter @stephenodauthor
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Big Wavy
That is precisely what Ronnie will not do because when he was offered the job he would be told here is what is available do you agree to work within budget?
He will have said yes.
Tony Mowbray on the other hand I believe also said yes and then 1 week later marched in and said I want Marc Antoine Fortune at £4 Million.
That wasn’t in the plan and PL was forced to back him.
There is a balance to be struck. We cannot go out and get the big guys like the richest — or should I say the most subsidised of clubs, or the ones wholly owned by sheikhs, sugar daddies and American speculators ( I hope we are never owned by any of them ) — but we cannot simply buy from the “sale” shelves all the time.
Every now and then you need a new suit and the sensible thing to do is go and buy a bloody good one to hang beside the ones you got out of TJ Maxx.
ACGR if somebody on the blog finds a bar in Alaska for you I will be tremendously im pressed, though not surprised. mistertaximan like junglejim at your claim that we have sold less than 50% less ST’s than 10-15 years ago point me to your evidence or retract or simply say IMO, lazy post. Hail Hail Hebcelt
@ awe naw
thats exactly the point i posted yesterday mate
Battered Bunnet…thanks for reading. Okay I fired a scatter gun, but intended no personal abuse against Paul67 and I have clarified that since. I thought it was an appropriate analogy.
Here’s an idea. Crowd source a striker!
Everyone puts in an amount above 50 quid but you are not limited to that figure. Everyone gets a vote for every 50 put in on who we buy. This generates a list and Peter goes away and comes back with a striker.
Striker scores goals. Club has right to do with him
As they see fit. If they sell him those who put their money in get a proportion of the sales fee, some goes to charity and some to Celtic for his wages.
Player is an employee of Celtic.
Insurances would need to be sorted for club versus investors.
But tongue in cheek but we need an effing striker.
Awe Naw
I’d guess that all of the teams we’re likely to meet in EL qualifying would bite your hand off to be drawn against Legia.
There are some quality sides in that draw.
Final qualifying for the EL is more of a challenge than getting through this round of the CL from what I can see.
Easiest way in the EL is to beat Legia 3-0 next week…
BRTH obviously getting you TJ Hughes and your TK Maxx’s mixed up.See you soon Hebcelt
“There was no point in me trotting out the epl money argument”
I would say there was every point in explaining that viewpoint. Using `trotting out` suggests that you don`t accept the argument but it is certainly a massive factor when comparing Celtic with English clubs.
JJ
at=about
sipsini, proud to be part of the celtic family, big wavy
I cant really explain it. It is just one of those gut instinct feelings you get. Possibly his track record at not being the best at man management is the cause for my concern.
The Legia result has brought it back to mind. You would have thought he would have fed back to Ronny his thoughts about the tactical setup. I can only assume Ronny ignored them, or more worryingly Collins agreed with him.
I know it is far too early to judge him. I want both of them to deliver one of the best Celtic teams we will ever have the privilege to witness. Time will tell I guess
HH
JAT
BRTH
I agree, he won’t but I do like your analogy. Our managers seem to be only given a TK Maxx credit line and need to pop along the high street to the slightly more upmarket versions.
Ronny will have a better view now than when he arrived about his existing talent pool. It’;s all about how big the change will be now.
Aw naw – Europa for all the reasons you’ve stated is the right schooling this year for Ronny. Can you imagine us qualifying and facing Real Madrid or Bayern. Jaysus !!!
mullet and co 2
That sounds like something pulled from FF. It’s right up there with a bouncy castle for the kids to do the bouncy on and every fan buying a Euro Million ticket for the club.
LB
Mistertaximan
I hadn`t realised that there was a 15,000 waiting list ( I lived elsewhere in those days). I stand corrected and apologise for my light sarcasm earlier.
You might have gathered that I believe a collective positivity is much more helpful than constant criticism. That standpoint sometimes might cause me to jump the gun in defence of my team. So, once again, apologies.
JJ
TBB
I will take that It will be a case of groundhog .3 year cycle if that were to happen.
If only Ronny had more time
If
Big Wavy
I get what you say about tv money and I’m not saying we should be competing with the ‘greed is good’ league. Thats obvious.
There seems to be a middle ground where PL refuses to go at the current time. That is, an affordable expenditure of lets say 7m net on better quality. Fans want the thrill now but cant have it, and thats after shelling out on SBs
Watch him up the spending whenever Newco make their debut in the top division.
The thing is, our players will be better paid than Legia players. So is money the issue?
Did our players play to their full ability? No.
Are they better players than Legia? Most likely.
Did they look as fit as Legia? Certainly not.
I think we need to look past the cheque book. It surprises me how many people here want Celtic to buy rather build.
I want more young players being given a chance. That’s the Celtic ideal.
I did say it was tongue in cheek livi bhoy. Mind you I think we could actually carry through something like this whereas the Ffers would only pledge.
big wavy sorry to disagree but BRTH’s analogy is flawed you can buythe same gear in TK maxx’s as the expensive stores just cheaper as it is making way for new stock, not any better just new ergo they charge more . BRTH I get what you mean and agree. Hail Hail Hebcelt
BRHT/Livibhoy
On the business side, PL’s tenure has been a qualified success. His remit was clearly to get us out of the SPL. Whether that was his fault or not, it didn’t happen. Failure. The business of Celtic is healthier than it has been been in a while (if ever)…. overdraft, sustainability ..so, on that score, PL has been a success.
PL’s biggest success was in not following deadco down a spending rabbit hole. for that he should be commended, but lets not get carried away … any CEO getting paid what he is getting paid should know that bankrupting/stealing from your own company/ consitently paying more than you are bringing in is bad business. So, where PL is and will be judged is if he is able to lead Celtic to the next level (consistent European success – not necessarily winning but some level of success – and expanded international profile)
Our revenue is limited/capped by playing in the SPL, so if we are to expand, we must look at other sources of revenue … in that respect, football and finances are most directly linked…
Given Scotland’s small population (and, even considering Celtic’s diaspora fan base), we need to go beyond that (how many Malaysian kids wear Man U or Barca jerseys) …. that will only happen by increasing our exposure on the CL stage ….
We cant spend to do that, so we have to set up a model to develop the majority of our players (supplemented by some foreign stars)….. normally that is the remit of the manager, but, other than tacitly agreeing that our budget must be cut, I didn’t ever get the sense that there was a big picture in place …..or that PL and the successive managers were really on the same page …
Of course, there is always going to be a tension of sorts … PL’s vision must be more long term than a manager’s (who, as seen this week, gets as little as one game before people pass judgment)… so, sometimes, managers are (understandlably) more concerned about keeping their job/winning this weekend – which means less focus on development of players/long term success…
If this model is to be successful, both the CEO and the manager have to be (i) doing their job, and (ii) on the same page ….
At both the boardroom and management level, there has to more of focus on developing young talent …. and I haven’t seen that to the degree that I think we need to be successful in the long term …
For the first time in recent memory, I think we have two guys (RD and JC) that (i) want to get the bhoys playing decent football , and (ii) realize Rome wasn’t built in a day, and (iii) are prepared to push us down that road (even if it means a few bumps on the way)….
I could be wrong, but I have a good feeling about the new management team, and I think if we give them a bit of time, they will turn Celtic around on the pitch …. then it will be up to PL to do his stuff and prove that he is still the man to lead the PLC.
I think RD and JC should be given a chance …. I think PL is on his last chance …. if RD and JC go, then it will probably be time to clean house, beginning at the top as well. .
Our players looked every bit as fit as Legia`s. Our players simply made more mistakes.
I haven`t seen the stats but I am certain that they will show that our players covered at least as much ground as did Legia`s and in the same time, too!
JJ
weeminger-thanks for reply ,I agree but not sure RD will get any more than 2mil to spend.HH
timaloy29
14:41 on 1 August, 2014
@Marrakesh Express
The PLC release detailed accounts. They aren’t hiding anything.
The club operated on a profit last year but some of that money will be saved for a rainy day. Possibly this season.
_____________
The rainy day is upon us, fans are bored with the standard of player we are buying and staying away even although they’ve forked out their hard earned cash for a st.
I find myself sitting watching the game and thinking, it’s time to bring a sub on to change this, when I look at the bench I tend to feel wtf.
If the rainy day you are meaning is when hun2 appear!
The time is now to strengthen the team and make sure we ridicule them on the park at every turn.HH
awe_na_no_annoni_oan_anaw_n
Io
I will take that It will be the groundhog 3 year cycle if that were to happen.
If only Ronny had more time
If only we had prepared betterni
If only we bought in January
If only we had bought in June
None of which will be answered
I dont care how we get there but it would be better for us in a football context.
HH
Jungle Jim
14:59 on
1 August, 2014
No need to apologise. There was never actually 15,000 on the waiting list, not after the stadium fully opened anyway. There was quite a lot of club PR in that one. Some of it was about fear ‘if you don’t renew somebody will jump into your seats’
Up to a point there never really was a waiting list as such. An individual could have walked into the Ticket Office at any point and got one. If they asked nicely enough.
Many stayed on it, because they refuse a ‘special’ seat without the Rangers games. For them that’s what they whole thing was about. Not the other 18 home games. Weird way of supporting Celtic if you ask me, but each to their own.
If you were in Lawell’s shoes would you release a 6m budget to a scouting team that thought £1.5m was worthy of Amido Balde ?
In past Celtic history somebody thought £6m was worthy of a Rafeal Scheidt…
Talking myself around here I think to ‘better’ small bets :)
Too hot for my phone.
Its not the user :-)
Edson Brafeid signs for Lazio………..me neither……
brogan rogan trevino and hogan supports oscar knox, mackenzie furniss and anyone else who fights neuroblastoma
14:48 on 1 August, 2014
You also have the problem I posted last night. Even if we do manage to match the asking price of the quality of Player we yearn for, you have the problem of the Players’ demands; these include wages. Players seem content in playing for Clubs who are arguably not as big as us. They seem content on turning up their noses at the chance of playing for our great Club and winning trophies and instead taking the money. Another is they do not fancy playing in the SPFL.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
TTB
that post was for you.
I was not talking to myself …honest :-)
HH
BRTH-Some of the very co called good suits really are overpriced for what they are. I do agree they dont always cost buttons.
HH
Is this the first tailor debate?..what a turn up !
big wavy
Nope, and as I’ve posted before too soon since the board had their fingers burned.
@big wavy
Players in the 6 million + bracket don’t want to play in the SPFL
They would rather play for Hull City in the EPL. Foreign footballers don’t care about the romance and history of clubs.
They care about money and their career. I think they would rather test themselves against better players for better money.
weeminger
There was no CL for us until MON arrived.
For 5 years prior to that, following the rebuilding of the stadium, fans bought their tickets and turned up to every game.
A not inconsiderable number of those special tickets were sold.
Nowadays Celtic say buying a season book is the only way to guarantee your passport to European football. The problem with this there is a possibility that there will be NO European football.
Talk about giving your own supporters reason to not buy…
As a sales pitch how about buy a season book to support Celtic regardless of the opposition in a stadium with a great atmosphere where you are not harassed by stewards/police for no reason?
HH
timaloy29
I would disagree there. I think foreign players on the whole care about the club stature and playing in the CL more than your average British player.
LB
traditionalist88
Nail on the head. I think the fans sometimes have unreasonable expectations. Did I really say that? Yes I did.
We expect a treble and European progress every year. It’s a tall order to achieve that.
LB
Livi bhoy
Robbie Keane scored12 goals in 16 games …
timaloy29
15:13 on 1 August, 2014
@big wavy
Players in the 6 million + bracket don’t want to play in the SPFL
They would rather play for Hull City in the EPL. Foreign footballers don’t care about the romance and history of clubs.
They care about money and their career. I think they would rather test themselves against better players for better money.
—————————————————————————
The significance of this is often overlooked in debates about buying players. Power lies with the players these days and most would be tempted by the pay packet before the romance of a particular club. BTW – it’s almost 50 years since Celtic won the European Cup.
Hebcelt, prepare to be amazed:-) JJ, is on the case with McGinley`s pub anchorage.
Hoops ya bass