Well done to the Daily Record for revealing that SFA referee, Eddie Smith, was the policeman who reported Celtic fans to Uefa for singing offensive songs against Rennes last month. Smith was one of the referees who declined to make his services available as referees went on strike last season while Celtic took-on the SFA amid accusations of lies, bullying, sectarian behaviour and cover-ups among referees at the association. He is no longer on the Grade 1 list.
Following the strike the SFA Head of Referee Administration was removed from his post and referee, Dougie MacDonald, who was accused of lying to Celtic manager, Neil Lennon, resigned, prompting then-Celtic chairman, Dr John Reid, to say the club felt vindicated in raising their concerns.
Vindicated, no doubt, but with more than a few feeling bitter towards the club.
While the Daily Record can reflect on some good work today, bizarrely, the Scotsman newspaper accused Celtic fans of sectarian chanting at the Rennes game, something even police-gossip, Eddie Smith, didn’t accuse them of.
Why stop at accusations of sectarian behaviour? If the Scotsman are going to be ridiculous, why not accused Celtic fans of genocide and treason? Better still, just say lots of them have funny names, go to strange schools but will never ascent to the British throne.
Celtic have 123-years of non-sectarian history, it is downright offensive to suggest otherwise.
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I am firmly in the Gerrybhoy/Swiss Tony camp here as I’ve stated during previous debates on this subject.
If that makes me a Hun then fair enough.
The illicit chanting was covered during rush hour news on Virgin Radio in Dubai so this is no longer a Scottish Media campaign against Celtic. It’s an embarassment to our club and our reputation as the “good guys” globally.
That reputation is something I am very proud of and if certain songs or add ons are endangering that then get rid of them.
Simples…
BontyBhoy – I didn’t know Bennetts was still open. (thumbsup)
Lads is paul67 on BBC Scotland 6:30pm
Gerrybhoy,
Awe Naw and his pals are the reason that a lot of us hardly post here any more. Noel90 and the likes are no longer here contributing to the sense of good natured cameraderie that used to be the way of CQN.
I have noticed that WGS , Winningemell, Gweedorebhoy et all are as good as gone too.
I actually find that type of Cyberned more offensive than the Rangers clowns who come on here and try to be smart.
CQN is a great source of Celtic information , James Forrest , Brogan Hogan etc are a joy to read , I suppose we have to put up with the “how dare you not agree with me pish” to get the good stuff.
Sad really – for a support that prides itself on being inclusive we certainly have a number of bloggers who act as facists when you do not agree with their ramblings. But what do I know – I have only had a season ticket for 32 years and am shareholder who goes along to see the football.
Anyway – they did not have it all their own way today.
Seville67
Did anyone hear a PIRA chant ringing round Celtic park that night ?
Or anything of a racial nature (I see FARE getting involved) ?
Or any sectarian singing ?
The answer is NO because it didnt happen .
Are we being charged for chanting “Paddy McCourts Fenian Army ????? I mean come on.
The GB know they are under supervision and being videoed . They have chosen a repotoire that they belive is within the law.
And TBOTOB is not about the PIRA anyway.
lennon’s passion @ 17:04
You make the same point that Graeme Speirs made….
Have you ever approached someone at Celtic Park who said or sang something you didn’t like, and expressed your disappointment to them?
hen1rik says:
14 November, 2011 at 17:04
My old friend Hen1rik when are you getting this conclusive evidence I’m a Hun.Made my feelings known to you how i felt and as far as i’m concerned the matter is closed.Will let you buy me a drink,i would offer to get you one but i’m a tightfisted so n so.::)))
Gerrybhoy – meant to say I just called my Old Man and told him that I was called a hun today for the first time.
After he stopped laughing I got a lecture about that internet.
The old man is a typical shipyard worker. He said ” that’s the trouble with the internet if somebody called me that I’d just have stuck one on his chin”
Brilliant.
Seville67
Phil welcomes UEFA scrutiny
Brazil v Egypt live on ITV 4 now.
Good Afternoon,
I see the deabte about the nonspecific, unintelligible, unintimated complaint about allegedly singing or chanting something that is illicit is in full flow!
A quick search against the word illicit comes up with the following:
Not legally permitted or authorized; unlicensed; unlawful.
Disapproved of or not permitted for moral or ethical reasons.
Now isn’t that an interesting choice of words in this context. Unlawful according to……. what? The law of Scotland? I think not. The Eufa Rules? Mmmmmmmm Again I think not unless we get into very specific songs and chants.
Now I have heard all the arguments about singing this or that. Freedom of speech is the cry. It is our heritage and our history! We have the right! and so on.
No matter how right or wrong any of those arguments are, I am afraid that when you get to the nub of it, it is all baloney. Complete and utter undesguised claptrap!
I have the right to walk down the road dressed as a banana if I so choose– but do I choose? Not often to be honest.
I have the right, to come to Celtic park, take my seat and then start singing The Northern Lights of old Aberdeen if I choose. But do I? It might annoy some around me right enough but it is neither illegal nor illicit. It might not be good for my health but that is another story.
I have the right to come to Celtic park and sit in my seat, with my fellow season ticket holders around me, wearing a Rangers strip, a Hearts scarf, a poppy, a union jack top hat and a pair of pants that whistle dixie every time I stand up! But do I? No I don’t. Now my lack of fashion sense is fairly well known but not even I am that stupid– but I do have the right to do it!
Hang on I here some cry— that gettup might “Offend” someone– especially if they are all wearing green and white and expect you to be the same. Yes well that might be right– If I intended to upset someone or offend them that allegation might hold water, but if I was just plain daft enough to do it as a joke– well that might be reckless but was there really the intent to offend someone.
Then again what if I am just a bam?– eh don’t all rush with your suggestions please!–
You see the point is just because I have the right to do a lot of things doesn’t mean to say that I should do them or will do them. I don’t agree with them being made illegal but that is a different thing. A different issue.
It therefore follows that we, the Celtic support, need to look at ourselves AND the idiots who want to restrict us by law.
Of course those in Edinburgh who want to even up the numbers with their trumped up legislation need to be opposed and opposed strongly– that goes without saying.
However, I don’t get those who insist that we, the Celtic support, have the right to sing about certain Irish matters and therefore we WILL sing about Irish matters. Of course our club has a connection to Ireland, but as the son and grandson of an Irishman are you really telling me that I cannot express my heritage and my connection to Ireland without mentioning the Provos or even the “Official” IRA? That is clearly nonsense.
Also there is another far more subtle point to make here:
Everyone knows that when Celtic were formed there was oppression, open bigotry and bias etc. It is less public now but many ( and I am one ) will argue that sucj bis still exists. However, the world has moved forward. Glasgow and the rest of Scotland- nay the world– is awash with bars whose whole theme is Ireland. I know some are brewery owned and they wouldn’t welcome an Irishman at all for fear of their licence. They are in truth no more Irish than bars named after south american beaches but hey ho. There are plenty of Irish bars where Irish music is sung and played including the tunes and words which the “establishment” want to ban at Celtic park.
So banning such songs only at Celtic park or another football ground makes no snese whatsoever. Equally, it is not as if Celtic park is the only place you can go to sing and hear such songs. It is not the only place you can go to celebrate your Irishness.
Celtic park is a football ground. It should resound with football songs in the main, or celabratory songs like just can’t get enough.Yet there are those who insist– absolutely insist— that they will sing songs which– will bring us into conflict with authority! I don’t give a Kipper’s Dick for the authority and am happy to fight them all day long, but where my fellow Celtic fans make it clear that they don’t want this sung or that sung– do I have the right to just ignore them and say ” Sod you– it is not against the law to sing this and whether you like it or not I will sing it anyway!”.
The vast majority want to leave the ra outside the ground and if that is the case then the support should accept that.
Now that does not mean to say that the turnips at Holyrood won’t be persuaded to try and erode the Celtic supporters rights unfairly by examening the use of words like “fenian” and “paddy” and all that. I have been at game where I have been called a fenian B…rd and I always reply that this is half correct. My mother and father were married but beyond that you are correct my good man. I am a fenian and proud of it.
It is not illegal to be a fenian and I choose to be one. Some folk might not like that but that is life. It is a bit like being a Tory–unpleasant to some but not illegal!
As for our reporting plod friend– we await the detail of his complaint. Before even answering it the complaint itself has to be held up to scrutiny, and examined for fairness, specificness, legality and if necessary to see whether it is a complaint brought in good faith!
It might not do some people any good in the eyes of Eufa if it falls foul of all of that– now would it.
Anyway as I have often said before all this sectarian hullabaloo would disappear at least for a few years if Celtic and Rangers simply played in different leagues.
Now I wander how that could be brought about?
I am away for the tea….. ” The Northern Lights…. of old Aberdeen,……” lol
Fortune Favours
I won’t pretend to be offended, I’m not getting that sense of respect in your posts – which I tend to think I’ve shown you. However, I simply don’t make stuff up. I’ve shared a story about a fairly well know Glasgow character. I’m pretty reluctant to go beyond that.
What’s odd to me is that you didn’t get what I was saying. I was complimenting Celtic fans – remember in the story I was in this club with a group of Celtic fans (all of us were Celtic fans – no exceptions) and none of us were sympathetic to this mans more extreme lifestyle. We, the Celtic fans, were the ones made to feel uncomfortable by a man who many on CQN would be happy to welcome into their homes, it seems. I think a lot of Celtic fans forget we’re not all Irish Catholics. Indeed a lot of Catholics Celtic fans don’t have Irish backgrounds, there are many Scots Italians and Poles too.
Why does a story have to be told twice for the point to be made… Well it;s much like I was saying in my original posts today; the agenda is transparent, the determination of some on CQN to create a barny is transparent – because anyone genuinely committed to a constructive solution would pay closer attention to the detail.
I’ll know better than to engage you in future.
canamalar
You are 100% correct when you say that the agenda seekers are jumping on the anti-Celtic bandwagon, the club are not even aware of what we are supposed to have done WRONG if anything, and yet all the agenda seekers have decreed it’s about the IRA.
Fortunes Favour Mibbes says:
14 November, 2011 at 16:59
Bouncyboy,
Was it not enough you already talked about “bigots” amongst the Celtic support today, yet failed to justify that description when asked. Maybe you could make something up?
—
From Wiki (I know):
A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.
—
Well I believe, quite strongly as it so happens, that one should always pay one’s dues regarding social responsibility vis a vis taxation. I don’t, and won’t, tolerate the beliefs of others who would otherwise circumvent such responsibilities.
I guess, in that small way, I am a bigot and perhaps your answer lies there too as many others have expressed feelings similar to my own ;-)
Other than that, Bonty should certainly demonstrate where such bigotry/bigoted musings were posted on the blog.
bamboo says:
14 November, 2011 at 17:07
“They have chosen a repotoire that they believe is within the law.”
This is difficult to do when it seems that the law is shifting sands.
DubaiBhoy (nee LondonBhoy) says:
14 November, 2011 at 17:05
Am very glad to see some serious thought on this issue. We should do all we can to underwrite the great reputation that makes us a world wide attraction. ‘Ra chants detract from that and have no place at our football club.
HH to You!
NemoMeImpuneLacessitCSC
Fortunes Favour Mibbes says:
14 November, 2011 at 17:07
You are missing my point mate,never said i didn’t like singing the songs will sing them loud and proud as the next man at the football.All day on talk sport Celtic have been getting a kicking so if i have to stop singing IRA songs at the football to protect the great name of CELTIC i will.Simples.
You obviously made up the bit about being offended about bile being written on CQN today then.
paul mcbride is on sportsound, no doubt proclaiming the bill as the greatest piece of legislation ever conceived; who said QC’s were smart?
Seville67
I have no problem with you or your little group expressing opinions, that’s what blogs are all about.
I do have a problem with you referring to other Celtic supporters as ‘them’ and I do have a problem with some of the vocabulary used by Bonty etc regarding Celtic supporters.
See Here… The Very LAST thing that CelticFc would want
Is tae suffer a Big Ugly STAIN…. oan it’s Well Accpted Reputation, as Having
“THE BEST FANS..in the World of Soccerdom”
Tae hivin ..
Wan that Bespeaks o’ Having Fans who are No Any Bettah than any of the ither
Outfits..in Soccerdom..
The ” One is as Bad as the Ither” Syndrome.. beloved of Anti- Celtic Journalists.
and..
If that happens..
Then Ah wull be Sad.
Fur . The Majority of Celtic Fans , ARE..
THE BEST FANS IN THE WORLD of SOCCERDOM..
But, because of a Few Stubborn Hot- Heads.. among them..
CelticFc’s, Hard Earned Reputation which Ah hiv Extolled…
Wull be
Trodden In the Mud.
We must get control of These Recalcitrant Fans..who are dragging us Down.
They are few in Number..
However,
Because of their Insistence in Singing Proscribed Songs..
The rest of the Celtic Fans ,who do not Participate in singing these Forbiidden
Songs And Chants.. are being Punished, unfairly…And being Tarred by the Same Stick..
A clear instance of the “Tail Waggin’ the Dug”
A mortal Shame.. so it is..
Kojo
Seville67 says:
14 November, 2011 at 17:07
Seville67,
your comments warm the the heart.
Many thanks for that!
Yours in Celtic….. Gerry
bamboo says:
14 November, 2011 at 17:07
Likewise. I was at the game (Mr Sanderson) and I heard no pro-PIRA chants. It’s still possible that there were some muted chants and, for me, that would be regrettable.
That said, this whole thing stinks. IMO it was a ‘fix’. People got together before that game to do Celtic down. Clearly, the Match Commander was in on it. But did he act alone? I’d doubt it.
iki
Exactly .
The plod wont say what song will get you arrested.
And now they seem to have decided PMc’s F Army is sectarian or offensive or illicit.
This is a hamfisted attempt to stitch us up .
Paul67 – and all other Celtic minded – (its not often we will read on these pages your opening line “Well done to the Daily Record”)
However – on another subject (possibly covered earlier – but I have not looked back)
Zenden??? never an option for me
But the story regarding NL suggesting that he had a future – only to be told sorry no deal
This is the first real statement from any player suggesting that NL does not have an influence on what players get a deal??
I believe (only my opinion) that NL has had input into players contracts in the past
So what does this mean – is it paper talk? – is NL’s jacket on a shakey nail? – Is it PL making no more decisions until there is a “new man”???
Confused from Glasgow ??
67 ECW
Off topic- embdy had laser eye surgery?,if so how successful was it and how expensive is it? thanks in advance.
Heard messrs Pressley and Butcher on the radio talking about league reconstruction. Apparently because moves for a 10 team top division failed it’s now time to think about a bigger league.
Wonder where this is coming from? Only one division to climb for a hypothetical new team perhaps?
philvisreturns says:
14 November, 2011 at 17:06
Very disappointed in you. Apart from the obvious, you are normally entertaining. You know, mildly so.
That was just a lame put down. By any standard. Yeah sure I’m gay, if it amuses you. Is that even a put down these days. Also get out there mate, the gay clubs are full of straight guys going along with their ladies… it’s so passe it’s not even cool any more. I suspect you’re cultural references are as outmoded as your politics.
Please tell me you were being ironic, I’d be disappointed if I couldn’t enjoy your ‘funny posts’, for fear of not knowing whether it was a joke or not.
The Lawell Zenden story is probably the usual thing of an agent at the last minute trying to add on extras to the contract and then him being told to go forth and multiply.
hamiltontim says:
14 November, 2011 at 17:18
Seville67
I have no problem with you or your little group expressing opinions, that’s what blogs are all about
_________________________________________________________________________________
What EXACTLY makes you think that this is a “little group”? Let’s have your analysis please…….
HH Gerry
Br\o/gan R\o/gan Trevin\o/ and H\o/gan says:
14 November, 2011 at 17:12
**********************
Great post!
re the Northern Lights song…..
when I was a teenager …… many years ago…35yrs approx, on the Greenock CSC bus going up to Aberdeen that particular song was always sung loud and proud, more so on the return Journey if it was a draw or victory, more recently on London rd the Abereen supporters join us for a pint and sing theyre songs……. we hate rangers more than you :¬)
As an aside the Greenock CSC trip to Aberdeen (all games) were free to members, and the members were given cash for fish and chips and a pint when we stopped off at Perth.
Some club that!
V
HH
That’s what I like on here a right good argy bargy
No doubt there will be a few CQN widows heading for the hills tonight and will be needing a wee shoulder to cry on in The merchant city
I will ramp up the temperature a wee bit more by saying that Gus Hiddink will more than likely be looking for a new managerial position in the near future
Hamiltontim,
Be fair to those guys, I’m not part of a group on CQN. Seville’s post was, however, very welcome and equally true.
I never refer to Celtic as ‘them’. For what it’s worth, I reckon you’re alright… and I don’t group you with Imatim or Aw Naw. However there is bile on CQN sometimes. There is bullying. And the truth is I used to like CQN, and I still come here for the good posts and the info, and for the leader article, so, why shouldn’t I express an alternative view. I rarely bare my teeth first, today was the first time in months I started out aggressive, and I can’t pretend I’m sorry. This was a bad day on CQN.
“Patsy” Smith.
Sham.
Shame.
Bouncyboy @ 17:12
You’re getting better at that obfuscation. Managed it in one paragraph there.
Bounce/flounce – do what you want. But everytime you appear here to put your boot into the Celtic support (who, yes, that’s right, are part of a Club that encapsulates everyone who chooses to support it and does NOT distinguish between religion, race or poltical creed, and celebrates cultural diversity and everyone’s right to celebrate and express their culture), you’ll be getting a reply from me, as much as it pains me, and sticks in my throat.
I have been out of the CQN loop for more than a week because of work and travel so I’m not sure how much of a mention this has had.
Prof Devine has already batted the legalities around singing songs about the IRA (if this is what we are being taken to task over) out of the park.
After the league cup final in March, he said this in a letter to The Herald, referring to a case in a sheriff court in which he was an expert witness.
The sheriff listened to the evidence, including my own statement, and the various submissions on this question both by defence lawyers and the Crown. He concluded that doubtless some members of the public might take offence at songs being sung in support of an organisation which the UK Government considered to be a terrorist movement. Nonetheless, he ruled that the IRA was a republican military organisation, was not sectarian in intent and that those who showed support for it, real or rhetorical, were not showing “malice or ill will towards members of a religious group’’. The charge could not therefore be sustained under the 2003 legislation and the accusation of a religiously aggravated breach was dismissed.
The problem for the authorities with this is that they come to the table assuming that both sides are as bad as each other. Therefore, if the legislation will not, at present, allow the polis to arrest enough people on the Celtic side to reflect this ‘FACT’, the legislation must change.
Prof Devine made it clear in his contribution to the Holyrood committee that the legislation we already have under Section 74 of the Criminal Justice ( Scotland) Act 2003 should be enough. If the polis and the courts fail to use it, that’s a different matter, but Section 74 is enough.
What has happened since? Well, the statistics that show that, under Section 74, both sides are not as bad as each other have been destroyed. The Scottish government still seems quite keen on pushing the new ‘evening up’ legislation through and now, until such times as they can arrest even numbers of people, the polis are circumventing the Scottish legal system and attempting to have UEFA penalise Celtic.
The only criterion seems to be, in the prof’s words, that “some members of the public might take offence at songs being sung in support of an organisation which the UK Government considered to be a terrorist movement”. Some members of the public quite obviously do take offence. You only have to read CQN to see that. Nevertheless, this does not make the songs being sung illegal and, as others have said, it leaves a big wide open door for objections to a long list of songs and chants that are not (yet) illegal.
If the authorities can just pretend something you do is illegal so that they can throw the book at you, the game is a bogey.
Don’t talk to me about Aberdeen. The only sober individuals on the bus were me, the driver and a 14 year old boy.
Bada Bing
I know quite a few who have had it and by and large it’s been sucessfull, BUT, for some it’s had adverse effects, like being good for some months but then the eyesight gets worse and it gets worse rapidly, can not be corrected again.
It was all the rage back in Ireland for a time, and I suppose you really need to be carefull in your choice of eye surgeon.