Well done to the Daily Record for revealing that SFA referee, Eddie Smith, was the policeman who reported Celtic fans to Uefa for singing offensive songs against Rennes last month. Smith was one of the referees who declined to make his services available as referees went on strike last season while Celtic took-on the SFA amid accusations of lies, bullying, sectarian behaviour and cover-ups among referees at the association. He is no longer on the Grade 1 list.
Following the strike the SFA Head of Referee Administration was removed from his post and referee, Dougie MacDonald, who was accused of lying to Celtic manager, Neil Lennon, resigned, prompting then-Celtic chairman, Dr John Reid, to say the club felt vindicated in raising their concerns.
Vindicated, no doubt, but with more than a few feeling bitter towards the club.
While the Daily Record can reflect on some good work today, bizarrely, the Scotsman newspaper accused Celtic fans of sectarian chanting at the Rennes game, something even police-gossip, Eddie Smith, didn’t accuse them of.
Why stop at accusations of sectarian behaviour? If the Scotsman are going to be ridiculous, why not accused Celtic fans of genocide and treason? Better still, just say lots of them have funny names, go to strange schools but will never ascent to the British throne.
Celtic have 123-years of non-sectarian history, it is downright offensive to suggest otherwise.
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Huns tax case to be heard 16-18 Jan 2012.
A number of cases have been taken against teams by UEFA due to the behaviour of their fans. Here are the most recent:
UEFA has opened disciplinary proceedings against the Bulgarian Football Union (BFS) in the wake of last month’s UEFA EURO 2012 qualifying match between Bulgaria and England. The BFS is to face charges of discriminatory behaviour relating to chanting by home supporters during the Group G game in Sofia on 2 September as well as charges relating to the setting-off and throwing of fireworks. The case will be heard by the UEFA Control and Disciplinary Body on Thursday 17 November.
UEFA’s Control and Disciplinary Body has fined the Croatian Football Federation €80,000 following incidents at the UEFA EURO 2012 qualifier against Georgia earlier this month.
The charges brought against the HNS concerned crowd disturbances, a pitch invasion, the showing of illicit banners, the setting off and throwing of fireworks, violation of kit regulations (manufacturer’s logo on the goalkeeper’s gloves)
The UEFA Control and Disciplinary Body has confirmed the following sanctions against Rangers FC after the two legs of their UEFA Europa League round of 16 tie against PSV Eindhoven. Following a charge of discriminatory behaviour at the first leg away to PSV on 10 March, Rangers have been fined €40,000. The club is also restricted from selling any tickets to its supporters for two away matches in UEFA club competition (with the respective home clubs also not authorised to sell tickets to Rangers supporters). This ban applies to Rangers’ next away match and is suspended for the second away match for a probationary period of three years. The Control and Disciplinary Body also fined the Scottish club a further €40,000 for discriminatory behaviour at the second leg in Glasgow on 17 March, and ordered Rangers to play their next home UEFA club competition match behind closed doors. However, this sanction is deferred for a probationary period of three years.
The UEFA Control and Disciplinary Body has announced sanctions for both MŠK Žilina and FC Spartak Moskva as a result of incidents during the clubs’ recent UEFA Champions League encounter in Slovakia. The Russian club have been ordered to play a UEFA competition home match behind closed doors. This sanction is deferred for a probationary period of two years. Spartak had been charged with the improper conduct of supporters at the UEFA Champions League Group F game at the Štadión MŠK Žilina on 8 December. The Muscovite side were also issued a €75,000 fine, after serious incidents which included the ignition and throwing of fireworks.
Following FC Steaua Bucureşti’s UEFA Europa League Group K match against SSC Napoli in Bucharest on 30 September 2010 the Bucharest side have been fined €30,000 for the improper conduct of their supporters at the game, while Napoli received an €8,000 fine for the misconduct of their fans, who threw missiles and fireworks.
FK Rabotnicki – €10,000 fine on FK Rabotnicki for the discriminatory conduct of supporters during their UEFA Europa League third qualifying round first-leg match against Liverpool FC on 29 July 2010. Alleged monkey chants against Liverpool’s black players.
FK Austria Wien have been ordered to play their next two European home games behind closed doors – one of them deferred – and have been fined €20,000. The sanctions relate to events at FK Austria’s UEFA Europa League home game against Athletic Club in Vienna on 3 December 2009. The group-stage match, which the visiting Spanish team won 3-0, was marred by the improper conduct of supporters, including a pitch invasion and the setting-off and throwing of fireworks and missiles.
NK Dinamo Zagreb against FC Timişoara on 1 October 2009. Initially a three-point deduction from the Croatian club replaced by a €75,000 fine plus a disqualification from all UEFA competitions for a probationary period of three years for serious crowd disturbances.
Rangers FC have been fined €20,000 and ordered to pay the cost of the damage to FC Unirea Urziceni’s stadium infrastructure, following incidents at last week’s UEFA Champions League match. 4 Nov 2009. Unirea Urziceni were fined €8,000 for lack of organisation at the same match.
20 August 2009 – FC Dinamo 1948 Bucureşti have had a 3-0 defeat awarded against them after the misbehaviour of fans caused the abandonment of their UEFA Europa League game against FC Slovan Liberec. The Romanian club must also pay a €50,000 fine.
NEC Nijmegen have received a suspended one-match stadium ban and have been fined because of an incident involving home supporters during the Dutch club’s UEFA Cup tie against Hamburger SV on 18 February 2009. NEC must pay a €50,000 fine, with the ruling relating to the improper action of local supporters during the second half of the NEC-Hamburg match at De Goffert Stadium. The referee was struck on the head by a lighter after fans started throwing missiles on to the pitch around the 61st-minute mark.
UEFA’s Control & Disciplinary Body has fined Feyenoord €25,000 and RC Deportivo La Coruña €5,000 following crowd disturbances and the throwing of missiles at the UEFA Cup Group H match between the sides at the Riazor on 27 November 2008.
NK Dinamo Zagreb have been fined a total of €200,000 for the improper conduct of their supporters, including the throwing of missiles and fireworks, as well as a lack of organisation at two UEFA Cup group stage games.
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The vast majority of times a club has been sanctioned by UEFA have been due to missiles or fireworks being thrown onto the pitch. Only Rangers (and for a second or third offence) have received serious punishment in terms of fans being banned, due to signing alone. The case of Rabotnicki is probably that which resembles our case most closely and that also involved racist (not just offensive) chanting. They were fined €10,000. At worst this is the punishment we will receive.
Mort
Good Morning,
at the top of my computer screen there are five words, and these are they:
Celtic News, not lazy journalism.
This site has over the years been commended for the quality of its output, the knowledge and clearheadedness of the contributors, and the overwhelming sense that there is a wideranging, diverse and intelligent readership who have an informed and undying love of Celtic Football Club and its ethos.
It should come as no surprise to anyone that last night, today and indeed tomorrow we should be bombarded by press stories concerning this alleged report to Eufa, and even the one to the SPL. It should come as no surprise– given the 5 words above– that some of those reports are misinformed, inaccurate, contradictory, ill researched and at times just plain stupid. It is lazy journalism in action and in person. It is poor journalism. It is the standard of journalism that has been allowed to pass as the norm in Scotland for oh so long. Scotland is a nation where right now the football is of a poor standard, but the journalism tends to be of no recogniseable standard whatsoever– with the odd exception.
The 5 words above, are really a call for professionalism. Professionalism and a degree of quality and objectiveness on a regular basis which has unfortunately been lacking for years. We, on this site, should not be surprised at any lack of professionalism as it is what we have come to expect from the Scottish press in the main.
Last night there were reports that the complaint to Eufa was on 1) Offensive singing 2) Illicit singing 3)Political singing which others find offensive and 4) sectarian singing. There was no attempt in most places to differentiate between these words in any meaningful way. I have not heard from any journalist that has seen the detail of any complaint. So what do they know?
Today, it is slightly different. Even the omnipotent and perpetually everywhere Pat Nevin is quoted as saying that even he recognises there is a freedom of speech issue here. Well done Pat and everyone else, you at least see the nub of one argument– but miss the obvious. Sectarian singing is a crime and no freedom of speech argument can excuse it. If there is a recognised freedom of speech issue then sectarianism has no role to play here and that should be highlighted. This is not a sectarian complaint.
Further, Graeme Spiers, who seems to know something, is quoted as saying that everyone should be clear. The chant or song complained of is ” Ooh ah up the ra” and nothing else.He says there is no issue with The Fields of Athenrye nor even The boys of the old brigade as that is a song of long ago– although he goes on to say that whilst it can’t be proscribed he is not sure of its relevance at a football match. Fair enough point Graeme. At least we know what you think is being complained about and your view on some of the songs mentioned in the media. Again it appears that this is not a sectarian complaint.
However, what is to be totally avoided here is the conning of the Celtic fans and others by the media. A complaint has been made– eh so what? What has that got to do with the media and why do the media then seek to put a spin on it? Why should that complaint and the answering of it be played out on the public domain? Surely any such complaint is to be answered professionally and privately? No? So the media continually then misinform saying the complaint could be any one of the words used above which includes sectarianism– without any evidence to support that claim.
For Celtic, I would advocate a number of initiatives.
First I would write to the Chief Constable of Strathclyde Police, with a copy going to Superintendent Brand of the Co-operation unit, to ask if it is now standard Police practice to intimate formal complaints or comments through a third party such as Eufa or even the newspapers or BBC? If that is not the way that Strathclyde Police are meant to professionally carry out their duties– and I can assure you it is not— then I would ask for a written assurance that this will not happen in the future and that his colleagues will desist in expanding on any matter in public or through inappropriate means. If there is a complaint against Celtic it should be intimated to the club and any governing body and then left at that. No publicity or idle speculation until the complaint has been investigated, answered and dealt with. That is the pratice that should be followed.
Second I woud issue a similar letter to the SPL as I see they have spokesperson pronouncing on matters publicly even before any complaint has been sent to Celtic for them to answer. That is hardly the behaviour of a professional body and seems to suggest that the SPL executives at least are not fit for purpose.
Thirdly I am bemused at the statements of Paul McBride QC. The media, and I include the BBC just so there is no doubt, are regularly capable of manipulating the news away from actual news into what they want to be the news. For example, the news this morning on the radio was not that a letter had been sent to Eufa, but that here is what McBride suggests Celtic should do– and that suggestion or advice was that Celtic should take action against the Green Brigade by way of sanctions.
Now no sanctions were specified, no suggestions made, no positive proposals put forward– just a call for sanctions.
There are two possibilities here. The first is that McBride was simply asked to come on the show and pontificate, the second was that McBride cleared what he had to say with the Celtic Board or indeed was asked to speak by that board. Either way what comes across is that his words are most unproffesional and highly ineffective and damaging to his own reputation.
What lawyer in their right mind pronounces publicly upon the affairs or the business of his/her client? None worth employing that is for damn sure because you would never know when they were next going to go public with their advice on this or that. Whether he was sent by the board or not, there is only one way to make sure that the proper course of action is followed in response to the complaint and that is to say nothing more than ” When we see the complaint, digest what is says, we will anser it to the best of our ability. Until that time it is not a matter for playing out in the public media as there are formalities and procedures to follow.
If the learned QC went on air without reference to his former clients– or maybe his current clients for all I know– then he should be given the Spanish Archer because you just cannot do that. Who would pay for advice that is given to the press first or released through the press? No One! The advice and discussions between Lawyer and client are confidential and should be kept so. Sometimes the media just have to be told nothing. Even if mcBride was asked to say anything in public by Celtic I am amazed that he suggested taking any action in relation to a complaint that has not been intimated properly let alone determined.
Besides, with no offence just who the hell is he to say that Celtic should hit the green brigade with sanctions? He is a lawyer– paid to give advice on the law not an expert on crowd control, public policy, the weather or what will win the 2:35 at Plumpton. He should stick to his job and his area of expertise.
Yet there is the problem. The BBC call up and ask for a comment on what is going on and then succeed in making what McBride says the news itself. Surely both he and the Celtic board if they are involved, have to be a bit too clever for that. Even if the board want to do something about the Green Brigade that is not how it is done. You would invite them in privately once you have the complaint and have a word in the ear. Listen guys there is a problem– we can defend it, answer it and so on but just be careful and engage the brain a wee bit because we are under the spotlight– and an unfair spotlight it is. You bring folk together, work out a plan and so on– you don’t just belt out some meaningless nonsense via the national broadcaster. You say you will look at the complaint and will answer it. End of story. Be clever and communicate only through the proper channels.
Last year when all the ref stuff was going on the board said nothing. They kept their powder dry and were very professional and focused re the whole thing. That is the way it should be with this. Professional in every respect with no pandering to or by fools who want to set their own agenda.
If you answer these complaints properly and professionally, tell the media to get lost, bring the police and the SPL to task for shoddy procedure, you will then set an agenda and send out a marker– we are professional in dealing with our business. We don’t comment and don’t play the news manipulation game and then tackle the real issue by asking for details of any specific complaint and so on.
Ard M…,
ideal find, now the pigs will squeal about new directions from above, however the only new directions they should be paying attention too are the statute books and from memory nothing has changed.
I think that in order to cite legal precedent the case mus have gone to a High Court appeal ruling.
Otherwise it is just considered as being the odd decision of a drunk/Masonic judge that had no weight in other proceedings.
THE EXILED TIM says:
15 November, 2011 at 12:26 aye and your allowed to march the streets abusing another religion all under the protection of the law
I asked the question a couple of weeks ago and didn’t get a reply.
Are the huns getting the grief we are getting, at ibrox?
Are the edinburgh huns getting the grief we are getting?
Is anybody in Scotland getting the grief we are getting?
Chinese Whispers —–
Today’s Times of India –[ big readership ]
“UEFA has charged Scottish club Celtic over its fans “illicit chanting ” of Irish political songs at a Europa League match.
UEFA’S rules prohibit using religious insults and ” ideological propaganda ”
Supporters of Celtic and Rangers traditionally sing about Irish religious history “
Does the new court date for the huns 1st tier tribunal mean that the deliberations will not be presented until the beginning of May 2012?
It certainly means less certainty with regards a fire sale in January ?
How does it affect Craig Whyte´s 90 day period with regards an insolvency event ?
Does this delay improve Craig Whyte´s ability to attract credit ? I.E CL entry for next season ?
When will the hun be alleviated of the frozen monies due to HMRC, Mc Intyre and Bain ?
When is the dispute over the penalties for the small tax bill due to be heard ?
Hail Hail
Árd Macha says:
15 November, 2011 at 12:32
In the case against Drybrough, the hun who was acquitted because calling someone a ‘Fenian Bastard’ and ‘Black Bastard’ in the vicinity of a stand full of huns, could not be classed as a ‘breach of the peace’.
Surely this has set the precendent. I know it’s not technically the same, but I think there is enough evidence to muddy the waters and present a defence.
Árd Macha
I assume that ,following the sheriff’s logic, (for want of a better word) had he called the ref a”masonic bastard” in the same vicinity, he would now be doing 5 to 10 ?
The longer the tribunal goes on, the more time Whyte has to charge Rangers for services etc etc. You neve know, Whyte may be owed as much as HMRC before its settled.
new article posted.
I hope that our P.I.R.A. chanters are proud of themselves when they see what they have done to our club. They have enabled our pathetically biassed media drag us into the mire along with our Clydeside neighbours. If you consider yourselves to be real Celtic supporters, it s s time you grew up.
Br\o/gan R\o/gan Trevin\o/ and H\o/gan says:
15 November, 2011 at 12:35
great post …. but as we saw with Pat Nevins false assertion at Hampden it kind of doesn´t matter as the establishment despise us too
so much easier and effective to support an away boycott. Nothing would get fudged. No hunguffery or whataboutery even CELTIC PLC whom we clearly dont trust would even need to get involved.
Hail Hail
We are Glasgow Celtic and its followers.
We are warm-blooded mammals in a land of cold-eyed reptiles who loathe us with undiluted limbic hate.
As evolution prepares to wipe the gyre of that enmity from our midst in an apocalyptic collapse, so proportionally does the antipathy towards us rise.
Common ground? There is none anymore. They flail against us with all they can muster; their lackeys in positions of influence cultivate campaigns designed to smear and appease the grand-lizards of their goat-sacrificing ‘kulture’ which hasn’t moved on intellectually or socially in over 300 years.
And still some come on here and talk of mediation. Of compromise.
I’ll tell you, for what it’s worth, what I think my club should do – and that is everything in its power to bury the SPL financially and all that cling to the hull of good ship cashcow Celtic Fc.
Bury them until this dire little land has no sustainable professional top division and we can move elsewhere legally under UEFA’s regulations.
There’s no real argument anymore; alsmot every club in the SPL has shown its hand in favour of the Huns (bar maybe Aberdeen and its supporters) when the chips were down for them last season.
The pseudo-competent officials in charge of Scottish football are so mired in Hun myth and tainted spirit they deserve nothing more than our contempt and sabotage of every revenue-raising plan they attempt to instigate; TV rights, image rights, any form of co-operation whatsoever with their schemes and dreams.
We must become inviolate, self-sustaining and UN-charitable to those who deserve NOTHING.
No man alone is an island but Celtic FC must become one – we can afford to – and let the bitter, bigoted rats drown in the financial depths of their own arrogant, narrow-minded design.
I have nothing to add to the debate about offensive/illicit/nawlikedbythems songs so i thought i’d just list some things i find offensive and hope they all meet a murky end.
Huns
Huns managers
Racists
Duran Duran
People having loud conversations on their mobiles on trains,buses etc.
Americanisms
More huns
Journalists
Monarchies
Cowboy boots
Cherry Cola
All reality tv programmes
Phill Collins
Union Jacks/flags
New Romantics
People with no manners
Even more huns
Chick flicks
Go Compare adverts
Keys and Gray
Self-righteous people
Deep fried pizza
Ian Paisley
Gourock
Nazis
People who leave their inheritance to a cat/dog/sea cucumbers etc.
Cliff Richard
Huns,again
Charlton Heston
Food critics
(most) Politicians
Fat girls in leggings
;-)
LIFESTOOSERIOUScsc
BABASONICOS71 says:
15 November, 2011 at 12:53
wot aboot fat girls in thon mumbling pants
i posted something similar on another forum
for those who dont want to sing rebel songs at the football, then don’t. sing something else. If enough people feel the same way, then do something about it…….sing a different song. Is it not that easy ? if the majority of the fhans, home or away don’t want to hear it, then drown it out. contribute with the vast number of celtic songs we all know. the guys singing the rebles will join in
the problems lie squarley with the ‘we need to even things up’ brigade. life is not even. Offensive is subjective. What if the spl/sfa or whoever decides they are offended hearing the feilds of athenrye of the celtic park PA ? against the famine and the crown ? how would the celtic board react to that ?
one more wee thing. when the huns were up on their numerous charges of sectarian songs/chants etc.., their board blamed everyone else. Now we are up, celtic have said explicitly we dont want them. there is no place for it here, and i comend the celtic board for standing their ground( even though i dont agree).
let the people sing……aye right
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Wee James Forrest CSC