Odsonne Eduard’s injury against St Johnstone yesterday came about when defender Joe Shaughnessy raised his boot to stop Odsonne shot from 2 yards out. The Celtic player’s shin caught Shaughnessy’s studs which were up to block the attempt at goal. Edouard was injured, unable to continue.
This is one of those incidents that looks innocuous; Shaughnessy’s intent was to stop the shot, not to injury an opponent. Referee, Willie Collum, took no action.
Let me take you back to the white heat of the title challenge in 2011. Celtic travelled to Hamilton on 12 January that year. Minutes after the break, James Forrest raised his boot to block a clearance from David Buchanan, Forrest’s studs catching Buchanan’s foot. It was the same scenario as the Edouard- Shaughnessy incident yesterday – there was no intent, but the Hamilton player took a sore one, although he was able to continue. The referee awarded Buchanan a foul and Forrest received a straight red card for dangerous play. It the same referee.
I’ll be honest, I was annoyed when James Forrest was sent off for that incident 8 years ago, so my reaction was inhibited when Shaughnessy did the same during yesterday’s game. But one of the decisions was wrong, clearly. If raising your studs to block an opponent is a foul and dangerous play, Celtic should have been awarded a penalty for this incident (not to mention Ryan Christie’s kick in the ribs immediately beforehand), and Shaughnessy should have been sent off.
I don’t go on about refereeing here. Standards improved after hitting an all-time low during the 2009-2011 seasons, when Celtic appeared to be punished on the field for making detailed complaints at that time. The Forrest red card in 2011 took place six weeks after referees went on strike, two months after the Head of Refereeing was sacked and three months after referee, Dougie McDonald, admitted to the SFA Head of Referees that he lied to Celtic manager, Neil Lennon, an admission which led to a re-done match report that was eventually leaked on CQN. There was chaos in the profession at that time, with conspiracies between referees and their assistants to adopt a fabricated version of events that proved impossible to maintain.
Changes were made and the game eventually improved. Since then, of course, there has been no chance of league titles being decided by the vagaries of refereeing – only the outcome of cup games could be determined by overlooking a defender punching a shot off the goal-line.
Extraordinary decisions from officials took place at other grounds this weekend, so this is not an isolated incident. After making progress, standards have regressed. I get the feeling those responsible for standards are out of their depth, unsure what to do to improve things. The worst thing they could do is retrench into a bunker in order to protect their flanks. To borrow a recently used phrase, it’s OK not to be OK. Admitting as much is the first step to recovery.
Take some action.
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GIRFUY Huns, WE are The Champions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A22oy8dFjqc
17.35 mins in.
YIRIDAFTBHOY
Missing the point entirely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5voM2HExV_Q
Ave Ave
Good morning CQN.
A happy Chinese New year to all.
HH.
Greenpinata…
Chinese, Japanese…look at these knees…lol ;-))
skingraftCSC
Good morning CQN from a frosty Garngad
Bring on the Hibees.
D. :)
Good morning, fairly, fresh in the Chilterns…
Hi Paul67, et al,
We are going back to the refereeing of 2009 – 2011 era…
Or the pre-apocalypse officiating…
At that time suspected something rotten in the state of Hampden Park and that it revolved around Rangers’ need for UCL cash. This was proven, the reason the ever present bias towards Rangers had morphed from the usual bias into downright cheating was the money. Of course keeping Timmy in his place and a few world record breaking baubles were nice, but the money was key.
When Craig Whyte was handed the poison chalice in his very first Season the Club failed to secure a European berth. He’s on record as stating that he had believed European Football was guaranteed. If they didn’t qualify for the UCL, he believed they went into the Europa League. Of course, Rangers got knocked out at such an early stage that they had to qualify for the UEL, they failed to do so.
The UCL money was necessary to make Rangers viable, the UEL money was necessary to make Rangers survivable, but with no European money, oh dear, there was no plan C. The rookie manager had failed to deliver and Rangers were doomed.
Now leading up to this there were, like last weekend, many baffling and head scratching decisions by match officials. Not least the Dougie McDonald thing at Tanadice and the Willie Collum eyes in the back of the head penalty award to Rangers.
In the wake of Dougie-Dougie-gate, his unfortunate assistant referee, Steven Craven(sic?!) gave an interview, he suggested that a kind of carrot and stick mentality was in place from the referee hierarchy to ensure matches were officiated as they wanted.
Now SC gave two examples of where he was marked down. One was when a decision went in favour of Celtic that maybe shouldn’t have. The other was a different match when there was a failure to give a decision for Rangers, when they could have.
Point being they’re honest mistakes that are, well, honest mistakes, but it seems that they’re honest mistakes that you just don’t make… the examples Mr Craven gave were interesting in that regard.
Now at the time I explained the rather bizarre decisions and inconsistencies were a result of this dog whistle.
In other words the head of refereeing and his entourage don’t get 30 match officials in a room and say, we need Rangers to win the league, so do what you can to give them a hand and try to make things difficult for Celtic.
No, only a handful need to be involved at that level. As long as the officials are aware of what Steven Craven was aware of… you don’t miss an opportunity to give Rangers something and you don’t give Celtic anything that is not of the stonewaller variety.
That explains Willie Collum’s seeming ridiculous decision to award Kirk Broadfoot a penalty. Now everyone on the pitch and everyone in the stadium knew Kirk Broadfoot had dived except the referee who had his back to the action.
Inexplicably when he turned round and seen the Rangers player sprawled on the ground he gave a totally embarrassing penalty.
Likewise Dougie McDonald had given Celtic’s Hooper a stone wall penalty at Tannadice, then inexplicably changed his mind as the Dundee United players gathered around him and remonstrated – saying their keeper had got a touch on the ball.
Of course if he had what difference did it make, he had certainly took out the Celtic attacker either way.
The thing is though, what was going through Willie and Dougie’s heads was what SC and all officials knew, you don’t give anything to Celtic you don’t need to and you never miss a Rangers opportunity.
That’s why things were so screwed up…
Now what happened afterwards is interesting, to save Dougie’s blushes in the aftermath a story was concocted and a scandal erupted…
AN SFA five man panel looked at the footage of tge penalty and all came to the conclusion that the referee had been right to change his mind as it wasn’t a penalty.
The refereeing fraternity supported Dougie and the official who told the truth, Steven Craven was given a lifetime ban. SFA President Peat did nothing but support the corruption, he said he was sick of conspiracy theories, even though what had just been proven was a conspiracy.
Willie Collum was a relatively inexperienced referee when he made that glaring mistake on live TV in front of millions and millions of viewers in Scotland’s largest fixture… his refereeing career went from strength to strength, though his officiating didn’t seem to improve.
Of course Rangers could not expect the same help in Europe and as stated earlier they went bust.
There was half a dozen years of reasonable, if somewhat incompetent refereeing decisions, with the odd glaring “honest mistake” to the fore.
Now of course there is another Club from Ibrox whose team need UCL Qualification to break even and you know what?
It’s Déjà vu all over again…
Hail Hail
This time…the clubs that are mibbe being cheated of a European place are up in arms…no? Hell mend um…
subservienceCSC
Morning Tims…
Well done Tom Boyd….
Good morning friends from a dry, cold and frosty East Kilbride. Just one more sleep…
Chairbhoy at 6.37 – good post.
Well done Tom Boyd
https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/17407922.tom-boyd-calls-for-neutral-referees-as-celtic-players-are-not-getting-the-protection-they-need/
There are links in the rekkkord and the hun too,but you an read them yourself.
A fine example of bias from our state propaganda vomiter -those who deem mintys cheating/unreported fraud/liquidated and shatoot publically is the same entirety as the fraud currently being played out by a convicted criminal from castlemilk
Conroy was asked what team he supported?
He answered honestly,I have not heard and hun supporting ref asked the same?
Why not do as they do in nawn i-lan,England and most countries to be honest.
Any you hooky types get me the probability/odds of
One pen?
Two pens?
Three pens?
Four pens?
Pre match
Bet it’s out there ?.it just doesn’t happen!
Unless you are a craft member/cheating hun
Who will get your knuckles rubbed not rapped.
The been is a joke.
HH
Booky types
Jeezo Jobo…is it that time…wen i say that…seems lke tomorrow yesterday ;-))
H.H.
Good morning from cold but dry Clydebank.
Excellent read Chairbhoy. You nailed it.
YNWA
Quality Paragraph
KIKINTHENAKAS on 4TH FEBRUARY 2019 6:47 PM
Great victory yesterday and pivotal in our season. However the lack of response on the constant refereeing decisions and into the SFA/SPFL EBTS Res 12 Supreme Court from our board and supposed custodians is cowardly and self harming. Appeasement will continue nothing will be done and we will continue to suffer. The lack of leadership from this board borders on malfeasance and collaboration with those who would see us fail this coupled with a lack of strategic vision means we will have to suck it up til they are removed. ???
Kikinthenakas
Very much agreed kikinthenakas
.
Shareholders at the time of Fergus were asked to be part of their club.
They were promised transparency,participation and openness which then was a complete turnaround from the Kelly’s and whites before them.a pact that left our club in ruins and ultimately led to Fergus in.
Where has that openness and response to shareholders over the inculcated cheating of the hun?
Where is our integrity in dealing with our shareholders,or dealing with minority shareholders? It certainly does come across as a 44% interest being laid out as the voice of Celtic.DD is not and never will be.
The treatment in response to shareholders interest is akin to the old board. Poor imo
But like all things Celtic can be improved.it must be
HH
CB @ 6.37
The GH “penalty” incident.
The TV broadcast — from memory Sky — comes into play.
The ref gave the penalty as he saw the incident.
Then the TV crew ran a slo-mo replay of the incident and saw the DU toe touch the ball as the DU foot / shin / thigh took out the CFC player.
Then the co-commentator starts shouting that the penalty decision is wrong — might have been AW — and then suddenly with DU players surrounding him the decision was reversed.
My thoughts have always been that at that time we had a form of unofficial VAR with TV conducting instant replays of certain incidents and shouting out to the world what they had seen — 4th official then passes on the info over the MIB earpiece circuit.
Very ad hoc.
Very partial.
Very illegal.
Just a thought.
CHAIRBHOY on 5TH FEBRUARY 2019 6:37 AM
100% spot on
Thanks for putting down my thoughts, only worded much better ?
Regarding the MIB influence.
JS had some air cover on the subject through his success in Europe.
Consequently he only had to deal with isolated incidents not an all out campaign.
SCF @ 1970 = done to stop a second consecutive treble.
The fix was on the minute they won the SF.
MADMITCH on 5TH FEBRUARY 2019 8:10 AM
The same commentator said about a different incident
” It would be a foul outside the box , but you can`t give a penalty for that “
Jokes and comments from the 70’s
TFOD didn’t score in a game — who missed the penalty?
BL and the offside lines — nearly a goal a game wrongly chalked off.
MADMITCH,
I’ve thought for years that that was the only possible conclusion for that one.
That info formed the basis for the change in the decision. They couldn’t admit it, so had to concoct a story which involved telling lies.
It’s the only possible explanation for their being sure enough to change a decision.
morning bhoys, from a mild calm Cheshire,,,didn’t realize I shared my birthday with the Chinese new year.hh.
Chairbhoy- there was 2 penalties in that incident, McDonald had the brassneck to tell Stokes to not contest the subsequent dropball on the 18 yard line. Dallas was on Clyde live on the Monday, supporting and adding to McDonald’s lies.
From An Tearmann`s link @7:33
` “I’ve seen two waist-high challenges on [Odsonne] Edouard and neither were seen as fouls and that’s not acceptable,” he lamented.`
I suppose it is something that The Herald published this article but `lamented` ? Really?
Sad.
JJ
Just to be clear. That one word, deliberately chosen remember, means the Reader is to conclude that this opinion is that of a whingeing,biased Tim bigot therefore is not to be taken seriously.
JJ
Well said Tom Boyd, nailed it perfectly. We should ensure this guy has an ambassadorial role at the club indefinitely, as he will never get a job in the media.
Its unfortunate Steve Conroy never mentioned the slaughtering he took from the media when he correctly sent off Pedro Mendes at Rugby Park in the 2009/10 season.
He of no surame was sent to the stand for his reaction to the sending off then verbally abused somone sitting in the seat he wanted to sit in , all caught on camera.
The media got stuck into Conroy for the sending off and booking at least 5 huns. Only Nevin , surprisingly, stated all bookings in the match were correct. The media croticism of Conroy went on for days.
He reffed our game against the now defunct club the following December when he left Lafferty away with his assault on Andreas Hinkel and wrongly disallowed a goal we scored. In my opinion , Conroy as a result of his treatment after sending off Mendes, knew the crap he would get off the media again so did not make the correct calls.
Bada Bing , any ther football association would have sacked Dallas senior after his lies after the Dougie Dougie game when he knew the truth.
SMSM amorous with the SPL again, just like the ‘old firm’ days, the current controversy helps perpetuate the myth that Rainjurz are still playing out of Ibrokes with continual reference back to a club that was liquidated.
Gordon Smith said was quick to point out on radio when John Rowbotham gave Rainjurz four penalties in Dundee, that they were all ‘stonewallers’ now the modern equivalent of him, says three of Dallas’s were just plain wrong. Seethen Gerrard was music hall scripted to quip ‘ they should have had five ‘ just like Andy Cameron would have for the old club.
The current crop of referees only started life as Rainjurz supporters they all saw them die, so did Hampden’s entire brigade including brother Fleming and they are busy treating Sevco in the manner the original club were feted in the dying years of Clark, McCurry, McDonald, Tait, Hope, Dougal, and Dallas snr.
The refereeing crisis is not about ‘standards’ Paul67 knows it, Tom Boyd knows it, and so do Celtic.
Bobby ( what happened to his season ticket money ) Madden takes charge of Sevco tomorrow
night at Pittodrie. ( there’s yer dinner )
We will not be cheated differently CSC
Dallas@ 9.25
Any football association like the one you describe,and we both know are rotten to the core.I am of the mind there are sevco fans/supporters call them what you may,must be looking in,weighing up what is happening and going ‘we are being helped big time’, or……..that is not the case! So happy we are SIX points ahead of the HUNting pack.
well worth a wee bump.
………………………………………………………………………………………
CHAIRBHOY on 5TH FEBRUARY 2019 6:37 AM
Good morning, fairly, fresh in the Chilterns…
Hi Paul67, et al,
We are going back to the refereeing of 2009 – 2011 era…
Or the pre-apocalypse officiating…
At that time suspected something rotten in the state of Hampden Park and that it revolved around Rangers’ need for UCL cash. This was proven, the reason the ever present bias towards Rangers had morphed from the usual bias into downright cheating was the money. Of course keeping Timmy in his place and a few world record breaking baubles were nice, but the money was key.
When Craig Whyte was handed the poison chalice in his very first Season the Club failed to secure a European berth. He’s on record as stating that he had believed European Football was guaranteed. If they didn’t qualify for the UCL, he believed they went into the Europa League. Of course, Rangers got knocked out at such an early stage that they had to qualify for the UEL, they failed to do so.
The UCL money was necessary to make Rangers viable, the UEL money was necessary to make Rangers survivable, but with no European money, oh dear, there was no plan C. The rookie manager had failed to deliver and Rangers were doomed.
Now leading up to this there were, like last weekend, many baffling and head scratching decisions by match officials. Not least the Dougie McDonald thing at Tanadice and the Willie Collum eyes in the back of the head penalty award to Rangers.
In the wake of Dougie-Dougie-gate, his unfortunate assistant referee, Steven Craven(sic?!) gave an interview, he suggested that a kind of carrot and stick mentality was in place from the referee hierarchy to ensure matches were officiated as they wanted.
Now SC gave two examples of where he was marked down. One was when a decision went in favour of Celtic that maybe shouldn’t have. The other was a different match when there was a failure to give a decision for Rangers, when they could have.
Point being they’re honest mistakes that are, well, honest mistakes, but it seems that they’re honest mistakes that you just don’t make… the examples Mr Craven gave were interesting in that regard.
Now at the time I explained the rather bizarre decisions and inconsistencies were a result of this dog whistle.
In other words the head of refereeing and his entourage don’t get 30 match officials in a room and say, we need Rangers to win the league, so do what you can to give them a hand and try to make things difficult for Celtic.
No, only a handful need to be involved at that level. As long as the officials are aware of what Steven Craven was aware of… you don’t miss an opportunity to give Rangers something and you don’t give Celtic anything that is not of the stonewaller variety.
That explains Willie Collum’s seeming ridiculous decision to award Kirk Broadfoot a penalty. Now everyone on the pitch and everyone in the stadium knew Kirk Broadfoot had dived except the referee who had his back to the action.
Inexplicably when he turned round and seen the Rangers player sprawled on the ground he gave a totally embarrassing penalty.
Likewise Dougie McDonald had given Celtic’s Hooper a stone wall penalty at Tannadice, then inexplicably changed his mind as the Dundee United players gathered around him and remonstrated – saying their keeper had got a touch on the ball.
Of course if he had what difference did it make, he had certainly took out the Celtic attacker either way.
The thing is though, what was going through Willie and Dougie’s heads was what SC and all officials knew, you don’t give anything to Celtic you don’t need to and you never miss a Rangers opportunity.
That’s why things were so screwed up…
Now what happened afterwards is interesting, to save Dougie’s blushes in the aftermath a story was concocted and a scandal erupted…
AN SFA five man panel looked at the footage of tge penalty and all came to the conclusion that the referee had been right to change his mind as it wasn’t a penalty.
The refereeing fraternity supported Dougie and the official who told the truth, Steven Craven was given a lifetime ban. SFA President Peat did nothing but support the corruption, he said he was sick of conspiracy theories, even though what had just been proven was a conspiracy.
Willie Collum was a relatively inexperienced referee when he made that glaring mistake on live TV in front of millions and millions of viewers in Scotland’s largest fixture… his refereeing career went from strength to strength, though his officiating didn’t seem to improve.
Of course Rangers could not expect the same help in Europe and as stated earlier they went bust.
There was half a dozen years of reasonable, if somewhat incompetent refereeing decisions, with the odd glaring “honest mistake” to the fore.
Now of course there is another Club from Ibrox whose team need UCL Qualification to break even and you know what?
It’s Déjà vu all over again…
Hail Hail
Lots of players injured, quite a few on the road to return… but are the likes of Boyata and Ntcham ready : Team for the mora :
———————-Bain————————
Toljan Boyata Jozo Izzy
————Brown McGregor————–
O.Burke Ntcham Sinclair
—————Weah——————-
Wonder if Bayo is fit enough to have an impact from the bench. Tomorrow might be too soon for Eddy. Hopefully he’s o.k for the weekend.
” Fix Fitba, Empty Hampden.”
A good read and saves on the link……
……………………………………………………………………
‘GG on 5TH FEBRUARY 2019 1:58 AM
Former Celtic captain Tom Boyd has launched a withering attack on Scottish referees and called for ‘neutral’ match officials to be imported in order to improve standards he believes are at an ‘all-time low’.
Boyd, pictured, made his unsparingly critical comments in the aftermath of a weekend which saw referee Andrew Dallas controversially award Rangers four penalties against St Mirren at Ibrox, while Willie Collum denied Celtic what their ex-skipper felt were two clear spot-kick claims against St Johnstone at McDiarmid Park.
Now an official Celtic ambassador, Boyd insists the recent Scottish FA summit of Premiership managers and top-flight referees in Perth has failed to properly address the ongoing issues with the disciplinary process and standard of decision-making.
Referencing the Scottish referees’ strike of 2010, which came in the wake of similarly intense criticism from Celtic and other clubs of match officials, Boyd would like to see further use of foreign referees in domestic fixtures. During that brief strike, the Scottish FA recruited officials from Luxembourg, Malta and Cyprus to take charge of games.
“There is something way wrong with the standard of officiating just now for whatever reason,” said Boyd. “It needs to be addressed and the only solution is to bring in the neutral referees who came in a few years ago and did ever so well.
“When you look at some of the decisions in certain games, the standard of refereeing is certainly not up to scratch. The summit meeting did no good whatsoever when you see in one weekend the decisions which are unjustifiable in terms of what goes on on a football park.
“I was very surprised Celtic didn’t get a penalty for the reckless challenge from Joe Shaughnessy on Odsonne Edouard. I do recall Willie Collum sending off James Forrest at Hamilton for a slightly lesser challenge, so there is no consistency in Mr Collum’s refereeing in a lot of Celtic games. That seems to be a massive problem just now.
“All of the penalties at the weekend must have been given away on the Saturday rather than the Sunday. There were two penalty kicks within the same incident at Perth, because Ryan Christie was tackled on the chest just before Shaughnessy’s challenge on Edouard. The Oliver Burke incident earlier in the game was also a penalty as you can’t go through the player to play the ball.
“They talk about things evening themselves up over the course of a season but I would need to wait about 100 years before they are evened up. You see the decisions which have been given, particularly at the weekend, where stonewall penalties were denied for us, where at another game [at Ibrox] the incident was outside the box yet it was given.
“It’s something which brings us back to what Jock Stein said, that we need to be better than referees. Sometimes that can be very difficult. It’s inefficiency and incompetence and it could be any referee at this moment in time.
“When I’m watching games, and Celtic games in particular because they’re the ones I see, they’re not offering protection towards Celtic players. I’ve seen two waist-high challenges on Edouard and neither were seen as fouls and that’s not acceptable.
“I don’t think it’s sinister, I just think there’s bad referees, very poor in their decision-making. It’s happening consistently – players aren’t being afforded protection. The amount of challenges that are going unpunished from opposition players on Celtic players – I can recall Ryan Bowman [of Motherwell] on Kieran Tierney, I can recall Jason Holt [of Rangers] on Patrick Roberts that was a two-footed challenge from behind – no foul given. So it is something that needs to be addressed.
“We’ve tried to address it – I believe the club are still looking for answers for the decisions from the derby game at the end of December and there haven’t been any solutions. It’s something we need to seek right away and the only solution I can see is bringing in neutral referees because the ones we have at the moment cannot handle the games, from what I’m seeing on the field.
Steve Clarke wants people in authority to ‘sort out’ Scotland’s refereeing situation. Picture: SNS. Steve Clarke wants people in authority to ‘sort out’ Scotland’s refereeing situation. Picture: SNS.
Steve Clarke steps up attack on standards of Scottish refereeing
“Video assistants would help to a degree, but you’re still going to have the same people who’ll be making those decisions. Would video assistant referees help them? Who knows, if you’re still getting the same answers. You can get four guys seeing different things going by their opinions. That’s what seems to be happening.The inconsistency of refereeing is absolutely frightening.
“It’s not just me who feels this way, it’s all the analysts on BT Sport, Sky, Premier Sports. We’re all in agreement the standard we’re seeing is at an all-time low in Scotland. Their interpretation seems to be different to other European referees.”
Great reads on the VZLA issue last night………………CQN at its most surprising!
Any algorithm genuises out there in the Timternet? A review of all refereeing incidences of Sevco and our matches can be calculated to ‘predict’ when and which referee will give a result in favour of them or against us?
Bada Bing 8.39am,
100% correct re Dougie Dougie Gate, there were 2 penalties in that incident at Tannadice, as per last Sunday. And I had a perfect vantage point to see them, both stonewallers. As has been said, the fix is definitely in, again. The result on Sunday was massive, and if we can beat Hibs tomorrow, that will put us in a good place. A draw or Aberdeen win at Pitoddrie would be even better.
HH
GG
Ta for posting TBoyd’s piece. However, when Tom said:
“I don’t think it’s sinister…” he lets them off because sinister is what it TOTALLY is.
It’s hugely sinister when an honest mistake becomes a trend, then a habit and, now, a regular occurrence.
We’re sick of this unfair playing field; by any Pro sport standards it’s embarrassingly biased, inept and corrupt.
Think it’d be accepted in the EPL, the NRL, the AFL or any professionally organised sport and league?? NAW!
In a banana republic it’d be very suss; masquerading as fairness in a mature democracy, it’s super-sinister.
Only reason referees are there is to uphold fair play FFS. If they can’t so so they should get tae.
FRIESDORFER on 5TH FEBRUARY 2019 10:05 AM
Bada Bing 8.39am,
100% correct re Dougie Dougie Gate, there were 2 penalties in that incident at Tannadice, as per last Sunday. And I had a perfect vantage point to see them, both stonewallers. As has been said, the fix is definitely in, again. The result on Sunday was massive, and if we can beat Hibs tomorrow, that will put us in a good place. A draw or Aberdeen win at Pitoddrie would be even better.
HH
===================================================================
Can`t wait .
Optimistic in spite of our absentees .