Apologies to all who, like me, tired of the circular ‘songs debate’ on CQN many years ago. Back in 2011, when Celtic had a similar action from Uefa to defend as they now face, I predicted a slow train wreck:
“The Debating societies will be exercised on the freedom of some to sing racially-hostile God Save the Queen, or the militaristic, Flower of Scotland, and wait for the reaction to what is euphemistically known as ‘the marching season’. In this vein I would encourage the Celtic delegation who meet Uefa next month read aloud a transcript of La Marseillaise, which becomes a logical target if Uefa prosecute our club.
“I predict Uefa and the SPL will reprimand Celtic with a cease and desist-type warning which will include specific instructions to remove and ban ‘offenders’. Efforts will be made to prosecute ‘offenders’, which I expect will fail, but not before a few individuals are brought before the court.
“Neil Lennon, Jock Stein and since Fergus McCann, the club, have asked fans not to sing political songs. Many agreed but some will not waver, so it would be an act of vanity for lesser mortals to suggest restraint. The slow train-wreck will happen.”
A few weeks later I wrote:
“Singing Flower of Scotland will (correctly) never be criminalised but you can expect charges to be brought for expressing similar sentiment. Legally, this sounds like a reach by the SNP government, but it’s likely to be a few young football fans who carry the responsibility of establishing how the judiciary view this matter.
“While Celtic will never condone IRA chanting (or, apparently, try to mitigate it as inconsequential, as others did before them with illegal and prejudicial chanting) they have a responsibility to ensure positive parts of our Irish tradition, including the national anthem, the flag and other symbols of the club’s rich and diverse culture are defended.”
Since then:
Uefa and the SPL have reprimanded Celtic.
Efforts have been made to prosecute ‘offenders’, which mostly fail.
Despite pleas from Neil Lennon, or earlier from Jock Stein, some insist on signing political songs. As Jock and Neil were ignored it remains an act of vanity for lesser mortals to try to convince others to desist.
Charges have been brought for expressing sentiment similar to that in Flower of Scotland.
Celtic have not, should not and cannot try to mitigate IRA chanting or banners as inconsequential. It is not inconsequential, Jock Stein knew it a long time before the SNP government. Fill your boots on debating why it has consequences below, it’s a huge intellectual topic, you’ll enjoy it, then you’ll get bored of it and move on.
If you want the opportunity to have a Debating Society on this, there is space on the comments section, knock yourself out. I’ve been through the songs debate often enough to know some of our community feel it is incumbent upon them to sing IRA songs at football games. Pointing out the words of Jock Stein, or the inevitable conclusion to this singing, or how things have developed in Ireland, will not change this perspective.
That’s the thing about slow train wrecks, nothing can stop them. It’s more productive to plan on how to deal with the aftermath.
Congratulations to the Bucketeers who raised over £26k for the costs of mounting an appropriate legal defence to the Dam Square five. This is a stunning amount of money raised, which demonstrates the strength of feeling among the support.
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CQN Annual, get it while it’s hot:
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tonydonnelly67
After saying O** F*** 3 or 4 times and maybe a wee i’m fed up of all the oldco newco stuff its boring:))
Ernie
Point of interest: Can you point me towards any evidence that Sullivan was invited, or indeed attended, the stadium opening? He doesn’t mention it in his memoires (although perhaps he didn’t consider it worth touching upon).
I’ve looked but haven’t found anything.
TBB
Philbhoy.
Shares mean nothing..
Celtic is about you passing on the love to olivia and me to monica.
We need to do this to honour those who have preceeded us and without their fight we would be hibs or dundee utd..
Is that want people on cqn really want?
Ez oan the wireless noo, soup taker, went down a lot in my estimation,ez a fanny Bawz.
are you listening to that pash on the tranny again?
Philbhoy – Free the Dam 5!
18:56 on
28 November, 2013
I used to drink with a mate who was a major shareholder at Celtic, although I wasn’t aware of that for a long time.
—————
your at it.
you had a mate ?
-)
Masty
You only on here cos TD had fell out with everyone else..8)
We had one guy a think it was about 6 years ago, an he told them , stick it up yer arse,.
masty is neil lennon and both of us are supporting wee oscar & Saint Stivs
Thank yous a wee glimmer of a bit of humour returning after a few days :))
green shoots of recovery csc
Till later all
Masty I am vigilant , I listen to make sure they don’t get away with there shit.
From Wiki
“God Save Ireland” is an Irish rebel song. It served as an unofficial Irish national anthem for Irish nationalists from the 1870s to the 1910s. During the Parnellite split it was the anthem of the anti-Parnellite Irish National Federation.[1]
The song was written by T. D. Sullivan in 1867, and first published December 7 1867, inspired by Edmund O’Meager Condon’s speech from the dock when he stood trial along with the three Manchester Martyrs (Michael Larkin, William Phillip Allen, and Michael O’Brien).[2] After the three were executed, the song was adopted as the Fenian movement’s anthem. This song takes its melody from “Tramp! Tramp! Tramp! (The Prisoner’s Hope)” a song written in 1864 by George F. Root in response to conditions in the Andersonville Prison, a Confederate prison during the American Civil War.[3] This tune is also used in “Jesus Loves the Little Children.”
John McCormack, an Irish tenor residing in the United States, had a big hit with the number, making the first of his popular phonograph records of it in 1906. For this reason, he was not welcome in the United Kingdom for several years.
Workers during the Dublin Lockout of 1913 adapted the lyrics to “God Save Jim Larkin”, after the union leader. During the Easter Rising of 1916, “God Save Ireland” was famously sung by a bullet-ridden Cathal Brugha while single-handedly fighting off the advancing British troops.
The song was sung at football matches by fans of the Republic of Ireland team. The melody of the chorus was adapted for Ally’s Tartan Army, the Scotland national football team’s anthem for the FIFA World Cup 1978, this was itself adapted as the chorus of Put ‘Em Under Pressure, the anthem for the Republic of Ireland team for the FIFA World Cup 1990.
BT
Well said earlier
celtic more than a club, we are a brand PL, thanks but no thanks
Good evening friends
Good evening jobo
Evening Timland from a cold hun free mountain valley.
HT-BT
Well said.
HH
blantyretim is praying for the Knox family
19:02 on
28 November, 2013
Masty
You only on here cos TD had fell out with everyone else..8)
======================================================
in one BT in one..
Blantyretim
Anyone fell out with me that’s fine, I have no problem with that, but don’t bring in other people (Masty ) when it is nothing to do with them, I say what I like in here and don’t slag, so you need to calm doon and remember it’s a site.
St stivs & Ernie well said
The Celtic I was brought up to love not support is ebbing away with each passing day
The PLC are killing it slowly and we are sitting by and watching
Jesus at least the Kelly’s stood up to the SFA
Good evening
Jobo Baldie hope you are well predictions for sunday( not the weather) bud i’m going
4-1 to the good ghuys.
St Stivs…
Just the one!
BT
tony d is getting on a wee bit… LOL sorry auld yin…..but he’s been ma pal for lotsa years and will be for many more, those who fall out with him definitely don’t know him….
TD.
It was an olve branch hence the wee smiley.
blantyretim is praying for the Knox family
Philbhoy.
Shares mean nothing..
Celtic is about you passing on the love to olivia and me to monica.
We need to do this to honour those who have preceeded us and without their fight we would be hibs or dundee utd. Is that want people on cqn really want?
…………………………………………………………………………………………………….
I agree with you 100%, celtic has refused to forget, that is why celtic is the club it is, that is why it is hated so, that is why it is also loved. the day we become a hib or united is the day we should hold our head in shame.
our history is equally as important as our present and future. never forget
HH
Anyway, am off, fitbaw starting, Mark Guiedie with Macca is cringe worthy, puke.
BT
a know, but some times a hate being auld, but! Other times a love it, lol.
Night all, HH
One nil spurs.
62 minutes into fitbaw starting..o))
TD.
HH.
As you saod last night we are not here to slag each other but to offer up our opinions and thoughts..
KTF
BT
See when the authorities close us down, we can hold rallies at the ground and charge 50 pounds a head, and every rebel or punter who is anti anything can pay to get in and vent their spleens.
And I’ll be reminiscing at home with my CQN Annual 2014.
blantyretim is praying for the Knox family
19:19 on
28 November, 2013
One nil spurs.
62 minutes into fitbaw starting..o))
———————————————————–
told ye he was gettin auld..
Phil.
Do u believe that?
I know that you know it will never happen..
cliftonville celt from belfast praying for Oscar the wee legend
19:12 on
28 November, 2013
St stivs & Ernie well said
The Celtic I was brought up to love not support is ebbing away with each passing day
The PLC are killing it slowly and we are sitting by and watching
Jesus at least the Kelly’s stood up to the SFA
………………………………………….
It was ghuys off this blog that re elected the people that are killing your club.
I know, they were at the AGM.
BT – cheers!
leftclick – thanks for the reminder re the ole predictor. Our own game is, at the moment, tough to call. Would like to think there’d be a few material changes to our recent line ups but I don’t think that’s Neil’s way of thinking.
I was at the agm and voted for one man to be re elected..
My vote at the agm is worth as much ad my last fart..
BTW.
It wasn’t PL 8-))
Have I broke the blog because I didn’t vote for PL?
BT
I believe there are people, and people in powerful places, in the SPFL, in the Scottish Government AND in Uefa that would love to close us down.
That would love to have a legitimate reason for closing us down with aplomb and gusto!
The way to fight these people is to put a winning team on the park, run the club on a solid financial basis and get the fans to behave themselves INSIDE the ground.
These people cannot sleep at night because we are doing so well!
Ask any hun or SPFL office bearer that doesn’t work for us.
Ask Christine Graham!
Ask Senior Referee Advisor at UEFA Hugghie fae Bonkle.
Don’t give them an excuse.
A winning team on the park at home and in Europe is the answer.
The huns are in court every day suing each other and calling each other liars, the Fraud office is all over them. They are spending more than they are making. They are another disaster waiting to happen.
They want us as deid as they are!
Don’t give them the opportunity.
C’MON THE CELTS!!!!!!!
(Hope you are feeling better)