Apologies to all who, like me, tired of the circular ‘songs debate’ on CQN many years ago. Back in 2011, when Celtic had a similar action from Uefa to defend as they now face, I predicted a slow train wreck:
“The Debating societies will be exercised on the freedom of some to sing racially-hostile God Save the Queen, or the militaristic, Flower of Scotland, and wait for the reaction to what is euphemistically known as ‘the marching season’. In this vein I would encourage the Celtic delegation who meet Uefa next month read aloud a transcript of La Marseillaise, which becomes a logical target if Uefa prosecute our club.
“I predict Uefa and the SPL will reprimand Celtic with a cease and desist-type warning which will include specific instructions to remove and ban ‘offenders’. Efforts will be made to prosecute ‘offenders’, which I expect will fail, but not before a few individuals are brought before the court.
“Neil Lennon, Jock Stein and since Fergus McCann, the club, have asked fans not to sing political songs. Many agreed but some will not waver, so it would be an act of vanity for lesser mortals to suggest restraint. The slow train-wreck will happen.”
A few weeks later I wrote:
“Singing Flower of Scotland will (correctly) never be criminalised but you can expect charges to be brought for expressing similar sentiment. Legally, this sounds like a reach by the SNP government, but it’s likely to be a few young football fans who carry the responsibility of establishing how the judiciary view this matter.
“While Celtic will never condone IRA chanting (or, apparently, try to mitigate it as inconsequential, as others did before them with illegal and prejudicial chanting) they have a responsibility to ensure positive parts of our Irish tradition, including the national anthem, the flag and other symbols of the club’s rich and diverse culture are defended.”
Since then:
Uefa and the SPL have reprimanded Celtic.
Efforts have been made to prosecute ‘offenders’, which mostly fail.
Despite pleas from Neil Lennon, or earlier from Jock Stein, some insist on signing political songs. As Jock and Neil were ignored it remains an act of vanity for lesser mortals to try to convince others to desist.
Charges have been brought for expressing sentiment similar to that in Flower of Scotland.
Celtic have not, should not and cannot try to mitigate IRA chanting or banners as inconsequential. It is not inconsequential, Jock Stein knew it a long time before the SNP government. Fill your boots on debating why it has consequences below, it’s a huge intellectual topic, you’ll enjoy it, then you’ll get bored of it and move on.
If you want the opportunity to have a Debating Society on this, there is space on the comments section, knock yourself out. I’ve been through the songs debate often enough to know some of our community feel it is incumbent upon them to sing IRA songs at football games. Pointing out the words of Jock Stein, or the inevitable conclusion to this singing, or how things have developed in Ireland, will not change this perspective.
That’s the thing about slow train wrecks, nothing can stop them. It’s more productive to plan on how to deal with the aftermath.
Congratulations to the Bucketeers who raised over £26k for the costs of mounting an appropriate legal defence to the Dam Square five. This is a stunning amount of money raised, which demonstrates the strength of feeling among the support.
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I should also have said ask Police Scotland!!!
Philbhoy
While I agree with your post about them wanting us as deed as they are, not a hope in hell we will be shut down.
Uefa are not interested, the sfa can’t act as they allow the goings on over the water.
It’s a stalemate.
HH
What a strange forum is this CQN.
Happy to belittle the Red Clydeside voice from which our support was, & still is, drawn.
Happy to lionise a self-obsessed fascist, racist, Islamophobic liar who has never broken bread or supped a pint of beer with one solitary member of the Celtic family.
.
BT..
I hear ‘Rolls’ are Trending in Blantyre just Now..;-)
Summa
Evening All,
Last Thursday I watched the programme about the British army’s “secret force” driving around Belfast murdering innocent civilians who happened to be hanging around or were just nearby Republican barricades.
Just checked tonight’s schedule but I can’t see the next episode covering their rampage around loyalist barricades.
Anybody know why it has been postponed?
After all this typing, and it’s no easy at my age, I feel a dram coming on.
Got a bottle of Cardhu, highland single malt, 12 yo, 40% abv or
Dalwhinnie, highland single malt, 15 yo, 43% abv.
mmmmm
Philbhoy.
Are iur okc outtung a winnung team on the park?
Spfl fodder. .
We want to be entertained. It is their responsibility to put a team on the park to do so..
I know what they think of us. I heard mcmurdo last Saturday don’t forget..
I onky wish bigjie was about as I woukd have gone to the tim oub in kirkie.
If it’s O.K. to sing Flower of Scotland (a song of rebellion) because the events in the song happened a very long time ago, perhaps as a test we should try singing Follow me up to Carlow ,a song of rebellion which also refers to events which happened a very long time ago. It does not refer to the IRA or PIRA in any form, but the freedom fighters in the song were very much their equivalent, just as Wallace or Bruce would be their Scottish equivalent
Any criticism from official quarters would certainly provide clear evidence of an anti-Irish agenda.
Just so fed up with the in-fighting on here that I thought I’d throw in a daft idea.
Paul McBride and his Offensive Behaviour At Football Act as part of his legacy?
Is the Green Brigade’s stance and recent behaviour an inevitable consequence and backlash to the Legal and political opportunist and his ill conceived ideas on how to legislate in a sport that he didn’t really know much about in the first place?
Some board sycophants on here,who love having money in the bank but a team going backwards on the park,will point to Peter Lawell and how well he runs Celtic Plc.
Peter Lawell,Paul McBride,Dr.DeathReid,etc.etc.etc.
They have or had nothing in common or the slightest empathy with true Celtic fans.
The Green Brigade have a deep love of our club,and their tifos and banners are all relevant to our modern history and ancient links.
Hail Hail UTLR
Please give us our Celtic back.
Phil.
My typing skills as good as ever. O)
Dalwhinnie for me..
Off topic,
LinkedIns randomized generator threw up a Muggleton, Sutton + Strachan as the people I might know today…
weird…
BT
I did say a winning team in Europe too!
To dream………………………….the impossible dream…..
Och, we’re no that bad!
A striker and bring some of the youngsters through now.
They’ll be ready for the CL Quallies in July.
Bring it on!
BT
Me too!
But as I’m driving in the morning it will have to a, err, small one!
Take care my friend!
Dubiabhoy.
I am sparticus did they no throw me up..?
Phil.
Ktf. .
Kilbowie Kelt
19:41 on
28 November, 2013
Sorry I must be missing something.
Who is the lionised you refer to.
winning captains
I have answered your e-mail, can you read details and delete please?
Is blantyretim your forename or surname? ;-)
Philbhoy – Free the Dam 5!
It was ghuys off this blog that re elected the people that are killing your club.
I know, they were at the AGM.
—
It was DD that elected the people as majority share holder. Celtic PLC is not a democracy votes cast by ordinary share holders count for nothing if DD disagrees
BT
You too.
My problem is I love the Celtic!
Been going since the early fifties, so seen it all good, bad and absolutely wonderful.
I know that will astound those that have met me, so young do I look.
Mind you. i’ve got this painting in the attic……….it’s no lookin’ too good!.
Oglach
DD owns more shares than any other individual shareholder.
He does not own a majority of the shares.
Together, we could get rid of him.
Sos.
I hear ole en maybe staying on for a few days.
Must be holiday in uae..
Dhbiabhoy.
My surname is blantyre.
Forename tim..o )
Oglach
19:53 on
28 November, 2013
A couple of weeks before AGM I posted that DD and PL would never allow a count of Shareholders as opposed to a count of Shareholdings.
Philbhoy – Free the Dam 5!
19:55 on
28 November, 2013
How do you propose to get other major shareholders to come on board wheen they all share DD’s point of view.
Itv4
Speaking about spanish market. .
Is it true that “Back home in Derry” is played in the Kerrydale bar before every game?
Quonno,
This is generally defined within the company constitution / shareholding agreement. Why would those with the power wish to dilute their power???
I want my Celtic back….please
Phil.
We have no effect on the plc board with our shares.
The inly way to make them take nitice us by refusing to attrnd or buy Celtic merchandise.
No one really wants to do that but money talks to these men because nothing else matters to them.
Not you or I because we are the fodder. .
If someone dropped past my football club, and offered me £20m, in return for
-changing the seating slightly
– changing broadcasters access
-changing the times we play at
– changing the rules on punishments for sending offs
– changing advertising hoardings
– changing our pre match song
-changing the banners we display
Personally, I will gladly take their £20 m and any spare change.
European Champions League standings after 5 games:
Last position in Groups (except Group D – 3rd. and 4th. positions)
Group A Real Sociadad 1 pt.
Group B FC Copenhagen 4 pts.
Group C Anderlecht 1 pt.
Group D CSKA 3 pts.
Viktoria Plzen 0 pts.
Group E Steaua Bucharest 3 pts.
Group F Marseille 0 pts.
Group G Austria Vienna 2 pts.
Group H Celtic 3 pts.
What a garbage standard from Celtic considering all that money they have got in comparison with those other wee teams from numpty leagues!
Burghbhoy.
Billy rae bhoy. .o))
eddieinkirkmichael
20:00 on
28 November, 2013
Is it true that “Back home in Derry” is played in the Kerrydale bar before every game?
———————————————————————–
and we all know who wrote the lyrics to that little ditty.
Dubaibhoy-”If I signed off the accounts it has been in good faith.”
I agree entirely with you.
Anyone seriously wanting rid of DD and his mates require to derive them of income.
In other words keep yoor hand in your pockets regarding all things Celtic.
Clashcitybhiy..
Offered?
EmeraldBee\o/ proud to be an internet bampot
Getting to the heart of the matter now.
Years of downsizing since Seville.
I was under the impression that we had to win our league and fight our way through qualifiers before we received any offer..
Good evening JoBo.
Phil, definately Dalwhinnie.
Big game on Sunday, looking forward to it.
Broonie back will to make a difference and we will play with three midfielders hopefully and two up front. Broonie, Joe16 and Nir for me with Anthony supported by Kris.
Who plays wide? Sammi, Jamesie, Derk?
Usual defence so,
FF
Lustig, Efe, VVD, Izzy
Biton, Broonie, Ledley plus one
Commons
Stokes
Only 5 subs remember so
Zaluska, Chas, Darnell, Amido plus a wide man
EC67