Apologies to all who, like me, tired of the circular ‘songs debate’ on CQN many years ago. Back in 2011, when Celtic had a similar action from Uefa to defend as they now face, I predicted a slow train wreck:
“The Debating societies will be exercised on the freedom of some to sing racially-hostile God Save the Queen, or the militaristic, Flower of Scotland, and wait for the reaction to what is euphemistically known as ‘the marching season’. In this vein I would encourage the Celtic delegation who meet Uefa next month read aloud a transcript of La Marseillaise, which becomes a logical target if Uefa prosecute our club.
“I predict Uefa and the SPL will reprimand Celtic with a cease and desist-type warning which will include specific instructions to remove and ban ‘offenders’. Efforts will be made to prosecute ‘offenders’, which I expect will fail, but not before a few individuals are brought before the court.
“Neil Lennon, Jock Stein and since Fergus McCann, the club, have asked fans not to sing political songs. Many agreed but some will not waver, so it would be an act of vanity for lesser mortals to suggest restraint. The slow train-wreck will happen.”
A few weeks later I wrote:
“Singing Flower of Scotland will (correctly) never be criminalised but you can expect charges to be brought for expressing similar sentiment. Legally, this sounds like a reach by the SNP government, but it’s likely to be a few young football fans who carry the responsibility of establishing how the judiciary view this matter.
“While Celtic will never condone IRA chanting (or, apparently, try to mitigate it as inconsequential, as others did before them with illegal and prejudicial chanting) they have a responsibility to ensure positive parts of our Irish tradition, including the national anthem, the flag and other symbols of the club’s rich and diverse culture are defended.”
Since then:
Uefa and the SPL have reprimanded Celtic.
Efforts have been made to prosecute ‘offenders’, which mostly fail.
Despite pleas from Neil Lennon, or earlier from Jock Stein, some insist on signing political songs. As Jock and Neil were ignored it remains an act of vanity for lesser mortals to try to convince others to desist.
Charges have been brought for expressing sentiment similar to that in Flower of Scotland.
Celtic have not, should not and cannot try to mitigate IRA chanting or banners as inconsequential. It is not inconsequential, Jock Stein knew it a long time before the SNP government. Fill your boots on debating why it has consequences below, it’s a huge intellectual topic, you’ll enjoy it, then you’ll get bored of it and move on.
If you want the opportunity to have a Debating Society on this, there is space on the comments section, knock yourself out. I’ve been through the songs debate often enough to know some of our community feel it is incumbent upon them to sing IRA songs at football games. Pointing out the words of Jock Stein, or the inevitable conclusion to this singing, or how things have developed in Ireland, will not change this perspective.
That’s the thing about slow train wrecks, nothing can stop them. It’s more productive to plan on how to deal with the aftermath.
Congratulations to the Bucketeers who raised over £26k for the costs of mounting an appropriate legal defence to the Dam Square five. This is a stunning amount of money raised, which demonstrates the strength of feeling among the support.
[calameo code=000390171e05b9b63a832 lang=en page=38 hidelinks=1 width=100% height=500]
CQN Annual, get it while it’s hot:
1,061 Comments- Pages:
- «
- 1
- ...
- 10
- 11
- 12
- 13
- 14
- 15
- 16
- ...
- 28
- »
Just listening to the Swansea GB equivalent……support the team, GB…..leave the political elemet in your ranks outside ….they have their own agenda, which has nothing to do with ‘remembering’ the struggles of our forefathers….
Paul – I felt like I could hear you sighing as you typed this article. I reckon many of us share your sentiments.
So here are mine for what they’re worth……
Off the pitch…. Too clever by half and not clever at all. I’ve spent half a life studying Scottish history. I know the vagaries of Wallace’s actions. I get the juxtaposition of terrorist/ freedom fighter and the backdrop if current football relayed laws. Big deal. So what. That counts for little on a CL night with millions watching globally. They don’t get it, never will. How could they/would they? I mean 90% of scots base their knowledge of the wars of independence on Braveheart! So how would a global audience ‘get’ the nuanced message???
Instead we offer our enemies in the media, the MSM, poltics and Scotland’s newest club an open goal to denigrate our reputation. They’ve duly taken their chance.
Now some will say – and have done – that this is beside the point of not the point at all. Freedom of speech & historical integrity trumps all other things. Not if the results leave us, the Celtic, in a weaker position with a diminished global reputation as a result. They have.
On the pitch? Not nearly clever enough. Would far rather 2 or 3 good strikers rather than half a dozen ‘nearly men’. And a midfield that requires two/too many touches and seems short off dynamism and a swift route to goal.
All I can think is thank The Lord the CQN dinner’s not till next year. Oh my life we’d be needing peace wall(s) across the Kerrydale if it was this week.
I support Celtic. I always will. My Club’s well being and interests are more important than my own footballing and political views in the context of the Celtic Park environs.
Tin hat needed for me? Dunno? Don’t have one to hand so take it easy on my napper!
HH jamesgang
Evening all
What a read the ole Annual is. I am now ending up with two, both, of course, been paid for. Another chrissie prezzy paid for. :)
Weefra HH supporting Wee Oscar.
The only people who find the banner offensive are the anti irish bigots and unfortunately our board are pandering to them.
Some people in here do not want it at the game and that is there opinion and that is fine, but noone I’m sure will have found it offensive.
The Celtic board I’m afraid once again have missed the point and scored a massive OG
BT, not a peep, in a small village like ours thats good news. Anything bad someone would have heard. My Maw would certainly have heard, and everyone would have been telt.
The Green Man
The dreaded LOL
National Service is the only thing these people need!
Jimbo67 supporting Oscar Knox
Robcfc11
20:22 on
28 November, 2013
Oglach.. i dont agree with murder. I also don’t care what the huns do or what flags ajax fans fly or any other clubs’ fans do. I care about us and i care when minorities of fans drag us down. GB were in the wrong.
===========
All are entitled to their opinion however your original statement started off with born in Scotland and continued along the same lines. Your second post went on to rant on about the IRA murdering innocents.
Now the GB, right or wrong were highlighting the hypocrisy of the offensive behaviour legislation. In that it is ok to sing songs about a Scots freedom fighter and Scottish freedom but be arrested for singing of an Irish Freedom fighter or the men who fought for Irish Freedom.
And just to Correct you
Celtic Born in Scotland to Irish parents,
Nurtured ,supported and maintained to this very day by the Irish Diaspora in Scotland and worldwide.
TBB
I’m on my phone now so having to remember all the points in your reply, not easy these days :-)
The data that I mentioned was ‘told’ to me as opposed to me discovering it through any personal research. However, the gent (a Sikh) had no reason to lie so I’m inclined to believe him.
I take your point about a lack of tolerance of ‘others’ regardless of what marks them out as different: race; ethnicity; sexuality; religion; obesity or even ginger hair :-)
My concern and the use of that particular statistic was that it focused solely on race crimes. His information was clear and precise and that it highlighted anti Irish racism as the most prevalent form of race crime in Scotland.
I know, I know statistics only tell part of a story.
At the LCF at Hampden against the Huns just prior to their demise I heard thousands upon thousands of bigots singing a song stating that Irish people could go home because the famine was over.
There were no arrests that I’m aware of, in fact their behaviour was praised by police chiefs and our justice minister.
That’s thousands of individual race hate offences that won’t ever enter into records of racism in Scotland against the descendants of Ireland’s refugees.
BT,
Thanks for the heads up.
A wee Shire meet would be agreeable for the big cup tie.
BTW, has pater moved his seat as he has been sitting in the row in front of me in South Stand ES2 the past few games?
EC67
eddieinkirkmichael
The version of Let the people sing played at CP has the references to Cromwell replaced.
Clashcitybhoy!
What happened to poor Finnegan ?
H.H.
Robcfc11 . ….
the ira do not want to exist.they did not want to start.they did not want to fight and kill. the british invaded 178 countries and in every one of them when people resisted the british called them terrorists.GEORGE WASHINGTON was a terrorist.people in KENYA,CYPRUS.ok you getting the message,so if the british had not invaded all these countries there would not have been any fighting and the obvious innocent people getting killed.
OH SORRY WE EDUCATED THESE PEOPLE.!!!!!!
Don’t be surprised if the hoardes become restless as a result of mccoll’s meeting tonight….he knows his faction are not going to win the vote at the sevco agm, and we all know what will happen then……last desperate effort to get the hoardes to overthrow the bored and have his cronies replace them …….. too late, mccoll….one has flown over the cuckoo’s nest, again…
Dooooooooooo, dooooooooooooooooooooooo
favourite uncle
20:42 on 28 November, 2013
…..and you can take THAT to the bank……simples, really…..!!
Oglach.. every one involved in the formation were irish ? I am scots protestant and have supported celtic for over 30 years. Because of the football.
Jimbo67
They all want a good haircut…Green Brigade…when was the last time they seen the inside of a confession box…shocking
Ah tell you….they will all be sick they have been banned, when the Old Firm is back:)
HH
is the Dundee utd v Kilmarnock game on the box to-morrow night, Paul do us a favour and ban all politics on here, the war is over,also Green Brigade need to wise up.
Eurochamps67
20:26 on 28 November, 2013
=============================
I think Broon missing out the 3 games was THE major factor in fialure to qualify.
He may lack in sophistication at times but his energy and enthusiasm for the task is the driving force we desperately needed to combat the mental strain of going toe-to-toe with the top boys.
No Broon, players asked to do extra, get tired physically and mentally, lose goals.
With Broon, a rest for some and a mental edge maintained, less goals lost.
He’s one of those players who frustrate many but ultimately must be appreciated for the dimension he brings to the team.
Like you, I fully expect our somewhat aggreived squad – not given the credit they deserved in many quarters for their CL efforts -to go out and blitz the opposition for a few months just to remind this bitter wee nation who the champions are.
HT,
I have some files that may be of interest in respect of nature of hate/race crime in Scotland.
I can forward them if you want.
Kitalba sent them to me. They contain some of the “lost” information, though not collated.
A wee aside on information lost. Unless you put a nine inch nail through the one and only hard drive the information is held on it is almost impossible to loose said information.
Software easily available to you and me, can recover such easily.
I’m in Aberdeen tonight, but can forward it tomorrow.
The Green Man
Bring back the tawse..What with their witty banners and their ireverence and their very mild songs about Ireland in comparison with what I used to sing…String em up I say
I had that Alex Salmond in the back
of my cab… Very fat man.
Jimbo67 supporting Oscar Knox
philbhoy – free the dam 5!
19:55 on 28 November, 2013
What do you mean “get rid of him”….. careful what you wish for …….. sometimes I despair at some of the nonsense spouyednafter we get beat…honestly
Robcfc11
20:45 on
28 November, 2013
Oglach.. every one involved in the formation were irish ? I am scots protestant and have supported celtic for over 30 years. Because of the football.
==
I can honestly say i do not know if all the men named below were Irish but the overwhelming majority were. But being a Celtic supporter for 30 years you would know that.
Dr John Conway: Honorary President
John Glass: President
John O’Hara: Secretary
Hugh Darroch: Treasurer
William Maley: Match Secretary
James McKay
J M Nelis
Tom Maley
Michael Cairns
Joseph Shaughnessy
Pat Welsh
Daniel Molloy
David Meikleham
John McDonald
William McKillop
John H McLaughlin
Joseph McGrory
Dominic Macreadie (St Andrew’s Parish)
Brother Walfrid (Andrew) Kerins
Archbishop Eyre (Hon Patron)
Michael Davitt (Hon Patron)
http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/68270649546/making-a-point
On the GB Banners
Agreeing/disagreeing with the sentiment of the banners is an irrelevance when the banners themselves court controversy enough to overshadow their sentiment.
Unfortunately, it would not surprise me to see another “F*ck UEFA” banner appearing at the Nou Camp as a result of this.
The board and Neil Lennon, however, will likely be ecstatic that the Green Brigade have managed to take some eyes over their cumulative failure to provide acceptable performances in Europe. A loss against Hearts on Sunday would signal the end of much interest in our season, an unacceptable standard and, possibly, the end of the Lennon reign – we have to measure the performance of the club against certain standards. IMO, not winning two pieces of domestic silverware a season would fall way below that. The match fallout is covered at http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/68255134514/the-end-of-an-era.
Spouted even….hahahahahahaha
Doc
Magic mate I’d really appreciate that.
blantyretim.
13.01.
richard wilson
20:54 on 28 November, 2013
Bhun….get thee to mccoll’s wee too lte meeting..
Can’t believe some of the fundamentalist garbage being posted here today, and from people who should be old enough and smart enough to know better.
The war in Ireland is over. The good people there voted overwhelmingly for a peace process and that’s what they’ve got. What on earth have Bobby Sands and The IRA got to do with a game of football in 21st century Scotland? Can we please move on, like all decent and fair-minded people throughout that island are seeking to do?
Someone actually posted earlier that any celebration of Irish culture at Celtic Park is likely to be targeted by the powers that be. Jesus Christ, what utter nonsense. Would a banner of Brother Walfrid be targeted? The Irish flag? Someone wearing an Ireland football top? Of course they wouldn’t. Yes, there are plenty of thick-as-pigshit bigots in this country but how, exactly, does the promotion of the IRA by Celtic fans help the country endeavour to leave these Neanderthals behind?
Depressed and scunnered by the zealots who don’t speak for me or huge swathes of the club’s support.
Don’t mention the politics.
Its all about football.
Take it outside.
Fair enough but then don’t claim an infinity to an Irish hetitage if only a sanitised version is allowed.
Fair enough but then be prepared to accept the hypocracy of laws which outlaw expressions of one form of nationalism whilst other forms are celebrated.
Fair enough but don’t complain when Celtic supporters are arrested and victimised.
The display by the GB glorified no-one, advanced no poltical cause but the rxposure of hypocrisy. Only bigots could have taken offence.
jimbo67
20:52 on 28 November, 2013
What is it about sally and salmond…..hahahaha
jimbo67
I was in a cab tonight…from city centre…..taxi driver, Celtic fan….wont be renewing his season book next year…..says, that aint Celtic
I agreed
HH
Doc.he isn’t ignoring my calls..o)
No news us goid news..
Ec67.
Hates his bew seaf in nirgh stand so has been sutting with freestate for last few games..
Might be something to do with brandy shandy being a brandy in a pint.
Wee fra.
Did you speak to seamus re Sunday.
Sorry for the bad spelling…just back from the gym and dropping off here on the couch ….. Getting too old for all this exercising
ipaddy:
How exactly was the display a ‘promotion of the IRA’?
Scunnered by the intellectual maths on here…
Burghbhoy
20:36 on
28 November, 2013
The only people who find the banner offensive are the anti irish bigots and unfortunately our board are pandering to them.
Some people in here do not want it at the game and that is there opinion and that is fine, but noone I’m sure will have found it offensive.
The Celtic board I’m afraid once again have missed the point and scored a massive OG
=======================
The point about how offensive anyone found it is a red herring.
The point is UEFA found it broke their rules and we handed them the opportunity to have a go at our club on a plate.
It was a massive own goal and no attempt at turning a ball into a boomerang is going to change that.
It is a massive own goal in that the GB probably had the trust of lots of the support when they were under the threat of a ban. I doubt that is the case now.
Not only have the GB raised a question on their trustworthiness, they have raised one on their judgement. Whoever they are.
bt.
What kind of language are you writing in, It can’t even be translated from the dictionary.
Auldheid21-02
Agree
I am a big supporter of the GB …however that self indulgence nonsense on Tuesday coupled with that stupid statement has caused my support to waiver
What on earth did they think they would achieve ?
The Green Man
I will renew mine but I know how he feels. He is not alone either.
67 Heaven
Anybody ever seen a photey of them in the same Greggs, sorry room, at the same time?
Jimbo67 supporting Oscar Knox