Apologies to all who, like me, tired of the circular ‘songs debate’ on CQN many years ago. Back in 2011, when Celtic had a similar action from Uefa to defend as they now face, I predicted a slow train wreck:
“The Debating societies will be exercised on the freedom of some to sing racially-hostile God Save the Queen, or the militaristic, Flower of Scotland, and wait for the reaction to what is euphemistically known as ‘the marching season’. In this vein I would encourage the Celtic delegation who meet Uefa next month read aloud a transcript of La Marseillaise, which becomes a logical target if Uefa prosecute our club.
“I predict Uefa and the SPL will reprimand Celtic with a cease and desist-type warning which will include specific instructions to remove and ban ‘offenders’. Efforts will be made to prosecute ‘offenders’, which I expect will fail, but not before a few individuals are brought before the court.
“Neil Lennon, Jock Stein and since Fergus McCann, the club, have asked fans not to sing political songs. Many agreed but some will not waver, so it would be an act of vanity for lesser mortals to suggest restraint. The slow train-wreck will happen.”
A few weeks later I wrote:
“Singing Flower of Scotland will (correctly) never be criminalised but you can expect charges to be brought for expressing similar sentiment. Legally, this sounds like a reach by the SNP government, but it’s likely to be a few young football fans who carry the responsibility of establishing how the judiciary view this matter.
“While Celtic will never condone IRA chanting (or, apparently, try to mitigate it as inconsequential, as others did before them with illegal and prejudicial chanting) they have a responsibility to ensure positive parts of our Irish tradition, including the national anthem, the flag and other symbols of the club’s rich and diverse culture are defended.”
Since then:
Uefa and the SPL have reprimanded Celtic.
Efforts have been made to prosecute ‘offenders’, which mostly fail.
Despite pleas from Neil Lennon, or earlier from Jock Stein, some insist on signing political songs. As Jock and Neil were ignored it remains an act of vanity for lesser mortals to try to convince others to desist.
Charges have been brought for expressing sentiment similar to that in Flower of Scotland.
Celtic have not, should not and cannot try to mitigate IRA chanting or banners as inconsequential. It is not inconsequential, Jock Stein knew it a long time before the SNP government. Fill your boots on debating why it has consequences below, it’s a huge intellectual topic, you’ll enjoy it, then you’ll get bored of it and move on.
If you want the opportunity to have a Debating Society on this, there is space on the comments section, knock yourself out. I’ve been through the songs debate often enough to know some of our community feel it is incumbent upon them to sing IRA songs at football games. Pointing out the words of Jock Stein, or the inevitable conclusion to this singing, or how things have developed in Ireland, will not change this perspective.
That’s the thing about slow train wrecks, nothing can stop them. It’s more productive to plan on how to deal with the aftermath.
Congratulations to the Bucketeers who raised over £26k for the costs of mounting an appropriate legal defence to the Dam Square five. This is a stunning amount of money raised, which demonstrates the strength of feeling among the support.
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CQN Annual, get it while it’s hot:
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Evening Celtic men and “wummin” (that’s for the minx and her great effort for the Dam 5).
Just had a speed read back on the last two days and it made me laugh a lot. We have some great posters on here and some real clowns, the great thing is they / we are all Celtic.
The shite result on Tuesday still has me scratching my head about team selection and tactics, but that’s history now. The new big thing apparently, is the banner I couldn’t see from my crap seat in 117. I’ve supported the GB in every possible way possible in the past few years but I think Tuesday’s display was just stupid. I have no truck, and every sympathy with the GB’s protest, I simply doubt the wisdom and timing of their latest artwork.
Not their finest hour. Although they did support the team magnificently right to the last kick of the ball.
The blog needs another black pudding debate.
west
I have friends who live close to Gort, been there many’s a time.
A lot of the brasilians have gone now, no work, many have stayed.
Was the first place in Ireland that let me take my dug into a bar, for that I will always have an affection for the place.
HH
What is the Stars
00:33 on
29 November, 2013
Foxy
Are you sane ? or just a hun on the wind up
Earlier you talked about anti Irish racists who support celtic,now you talk about Neo Nazis and Racists who support celtic
Maybe you are just drunk but you dont seem right in the head
—————————————————————–
forgive me. neo Nazis and racists are one and the same in my book.
now anyone whom is intelligent enough can work out the following for themselves. take it or leave it.
“The terrorist or the dreamer, the savage or the brave, depends whose vote you’re trying to catch or whose face you’re trying to save.”
What is offensive about that exactly? I wasn’t offended by the banner. I thought it displayed an awareness that is lacking in some and had a message that should be hammered home.
Nothing offensive about the banner. It was the image of Bobby Sands, not William Wallace, accompanying the words that offended the anti Irish racists among our support and in the main stream media.
TET/ACGR
Off to bed – will update you Ghuys on keys/deposit arrangements by email.
H!H!
praecepta
Sadly I don’t have the time to peruse the uefa sites, well I probably do, but in all honesty it would make the blood boil, so I don’t.
I know what you are saying, and agree 100%, they were self centred, they gave little thought for their actions, but at the end of the day it means feck all in the grand scheme of things, it was a banner standing up for injustice.
No more no less, the clubs reputation will not be tarnished, they will pay lip service for the actions, end of.
Anyways, no long now.
Take care and god bless.
HH
praecepta, good man. You’ve just reminded me I’ve still got to book a hotel. Unluckily, I’ve got to get back on Friday and cant make the bat cave hootenanny.
That also reminds me, where’s the hootenanny fleg Mr BMCUWP? Eh Eh Eh?
Foxy
I am irish and very proud to be,
I have no interest in the Green Brigade good bad or indifferent
However I dont idolise Bobby Sands and like the vast majority of Irish people I was opposed to the activities of the organisation of which he was a member.
I dont think its appropriate to use his image at a football ground
Am I an anti Irish racist
PS I went to his funeral as a mark of respect to his brave sacrifice
Now would you allow me to support Celtic or should I be “chased” with the other quislings and soup takers
tet
havent been through gort for 4 or 5 years
had assumed that alot of the brazilians had left due the recession which seems to be never ending
i remember passing through it one morning and seeing all the brazilian kids going to the secondary school
an amazing sight in the west of ireland
Sleep well Timland
The past couple of days on the blog have truly been an insight.
Take care and god bless.
HH
KTF
What is the stars
Are you a Dub.,
No I am from Fanad
west
Some of those kids are as Irish as you are now, aye some sight.
take care
HH
What is the Stars
00:46 on
29 November, 2013
Foxy
I am irish and very proud to be,
I have no interest in the Green Brigade good bad or indifferent
However I dont idolise Bobby Sands and like the vast majority of Irish people I was opposed to the activities of the organisation of which he was a member.
I dont think its appropriate to use his image at a football ground
Am I an anti Irish racist
PS I went to his funeral as a mark of respect to his brave sacrifice
Now would you allow me to support Celtic or should I be “chased” with the other quislings and soup takers
————————————————————————-
You went to Bobby Sands MP funeral not out of respect but out of a lack of your own convictions.
You can dress mutton up as lamb but it don’t make it so.
I’d chase you alright. Celtic deserve better.
Foxy
You seem to have some issues
Big tough keyboard hardman (“Id chase you alright,Celtic deserve better)
either that or you are a hun on the wind or maybe you a just a drunk fool
Anyway I will never have the pleasure of finding out thank god
What is the stars
What pub/pubs do you drink in.?
Ha ha great, an internet skwer go. Brilliant:_)).
I see my sporting quiz was too hard.
I am not surprised.
Hoi Winning Captains, any chance of you taking direct charge of getting a CQN annual off to your only Carmyllie customer?
C’mon, get that big bhoy in a bag and get it sent oot to the Angus boondocks.
Awe-naw
Post number 777. Superb.
Didnae see the quiz. Ask again.
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo, how’s your wee bro and my old pal Maggie enjoying his time in fun city. Yer wee wee bro and my pal shug called me on Tuesday to see if I was up for a swally and a meet up with Mags. Unfortunately I was on taxi duty for young acgr and jungle jim as I’d have loved to have hooked up wi another bampot from your clan.
Hail Hail Maggie and Morrissey 23.
Your youngest is a star. Keep him well.
Will the Celtic bored demand that it is their hope that UEFA and the SFA follow their own licensing system criteria as stringently as they do with the terms and conditions of stadium behaviour and if not why not ?
P.s this is not a quiz question
HH
doctor whatfor
01:30 on29 November, 2013
Ok last one a football related quiz question in three parts to get everyone back onto talking football again and not politics and finance
And a sporting question.
And a rhetorical question
Ok here goes
1.
A. Which untouchable criminal said
“We chose Qatar for political and economic reasons” ?
B. What is his position i.e title ..considered to be etc.
C.How many workers have died building world cup stadia in Qatar so far. Plus or minus 100 ?
Question 2
A. What sport had. to change its branding from WWF to WWE ?
B. Is WWE a real sport with integrity or a rouse i.e entertainment disguised as sport to help rob the stupid ? I will accept an essay answer as well as a yes or no
C. Is it illegal ..punishable or forbidden to sing or display political sentiments at WWE events AND if it does not happen why is that ?
Rhetorical question.
If its wrong to buy drugs to stop exploitation of workers and to prevent strengthening criminal rings why should buying UEFA and FIFA tickets or TV shows be any different ?
Bonus question for those that have answered all questions correctly so far especially 1.c
Are people with a genuine drug habit less dangerous than those with a football habit ?
HH
Just looked in here at P16 and have no intention of readin back.
I echo Awe Naw’s question at 01:45. This should be the thing being discussed here, not the ramblings of 15 yr old fannies bored with their own club and its Follow Follow nonsense.
Will the Celtic bored demand that it is their hope that UEFA and the SFA follow their own licensing system criteria as stringently as they do with the terms and conditions of stadium behaviour and if not why not ?
It seems to me the biggest issue amongst the Celtic Support just now is the approach to this very question.
How much do the current board value the Celtic Support, or have the anticipated a reduction in support during their clean-up process which might or might not lead to playing in a wealthier league?
Are we all comfortable with that?
These are the questions to be asking just now. Not the usual pish about freedom of speech, which should be a given.
bored?
FFS. What an intelligent term.
Enter the realm of kevjungle.
a ceiler gonof rust supporting justice and fre edom forthe dam 5
01:38 on29 November, 2013
I am sure she will have had fun
Except for Celtic of course. Probably spent more money on seeing that one game than most do in a year supporting Celtic.
I did chide her on this but bad habits …and thats where we find ourselves today …are hard to break.
The support and the club dont deserve Morrisey23rd …ah the jury is still out on that wan I suppose ;-)
HH
a ceiler gonof rust supporting justice and freedom forthe dam 5
Phew just as well you missed out on Mags. His term …please keep up
I dont claim I.N.T.E.L.L.I.G.E.N.C.E
TeamAmericaCSCorIsItTheBoredCSC?
Not a quiz question either ? ;-)
HH
Big Nan,
Can’t recall what time you shared the links, but read your post today.
These days, I’ve given up on reading long blogs and posts as I just despair, but I read every word of your blog today, and am sharing it as widely as I can.
Like many, I’ve been following your posts here on what you’ve done and have nothing but massive admiration and respect for you.
I also admire your accepting, calm, cool approach and hitting the feckers in the nuts every time they expose their stupidity. You’re an inspiration in a bleak world at this time. And another reminder about why it’s great to be a Tim ! And a reminder to our youth that we shouldn’t be locking ourselves away through fear and pressure. We should be fighting back.
Awe Naw,
“The support and the club dont deserve Morrisey23rd”.
I totally agree. Actually, in my opinion, the current Celtic Board are not worthy of the Celtic support, at all.
The only argument for their retention is the financials – and to be fair, that’s not just because the huns died.
But other than that, the Celtic Support are being treated with contempt – the same contempt shown to every other UK citizen.
Divide, conquer, laugh at, take their money.
We’ve been offered words on the young boys locked up in Amsterdam in Scotia Fascist style. Their lives are now irrevocably changed.
Do the Celtic Board actually care about that? About each individual?
Anyone that can answer yes to that, please do and explain.
If you can’t, why are you defending this board who are letting our support be victimised and criminalised, knowing full well they are the only ones that can stop it happening, and if they made such an effort, they would have the full backing of the Celtic support.
Awe naw, I’m well aware of those who use the term and I did once ask Maggie doll to drop the use, unfortunately he thought better. My opinion of Kevj is that he’s a complete moron, whereas my opinion of Maggie is far different. However, I never offered the moron away on ma boat.
I do agree to a certain extent about your youngest but I’m wondering if it wasn’t him, then who would do better for Celtic. He’s a rare breed and a top lad.
As I say, keep him well and keep him away from them drams, they’ll fuckim up.
HH
ACGR,
Complaining about the term “bored” would be like complaining about the term “Off oot”.
We MUST accept irony amigo :))
FFM, how you doing bro? FFS don’t you go on using the “bored” pish as well, I credit you with better.
Celtic support using the term bored is so close and similar to huns using the term “liewell” to describe Peter Lawwell.
Fucking moronic in my humble opinion, but I’m told we’re al entitled to one.
Regardless, hope yo are well bruv and I look forward to our next pint.
Hail Hail
ACGR,
Am ok and hoipe you are too fella !
My point about the use of the word “bored” is it’s not moronic. It’s used in irony now.
If you’re concentrating on that you’re avoiding the very real main points.
If you or you kids were to travel abroad supporting Celtic – don’t expect any help from the Celtic Board while local rozzers excercise their objective which is to crush any group of people that they as rebelling against the establishment.
If you’re a 20 times more violent half wit who loves the establishment, they will STILL actively protect you.
The only change in the last 40 years is the establishment have gained more control.
We can choose to deal with it, ignore it, embrace it.
As Celtic Supporters, we’ll always be the last to accept it, which is why we’re under serious attack.
So where do the Celtic Board stand on this issue? We’re not allowed to discuss the point openly, anywhere.
So what do we do? Shut up, band over and send a note to our solicitors telling them to make sure out future generations do the same?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqddXoilff4
To some folk this will be a familiar relation, to others it will be a shock, and to the strange ones it will be common knowledge and completely acceptable to them.
The Glasgow Folk Club was being infiltrated in the 70s by Strathy Rozzers and Special Branch as they saw these folk singers as what they labelled a “communist threat”. The Star Folk Club had communist members, but it also had capitalist members. Why were they never monitored in the same way.
Nothing has changed. They still get up to this shit. Ney, worse, Alex Salmond has actually empowered them even more in the last three years. But not to investigate communists – no, rather Socialists. But still no investigation of Capitalists? The bankers? The corruption that we all know about now that existed in BOS and RBOS? Murray running away with £1000M along with his cronies, and the tax payer quickly covered the losses with no investigation?
We’re so feckin stupid in Scotland, so indoctrinated, that any responses to what I’ve just said will be from “independance” nuggets and right wing self centred clowns, all blinded by their own stupidity.
The real people that control Scotland, whether independent or not, have it all well tied up now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61etFdGpXq8
Some of you are thinking that I am risking arrest or a “mysterious heart attack while out hill walking” in posting this stuff.
This is the “democracy” you’re leaving for your children
Thank feck we beat Hitler..
To clarify, Star Folk Club in 70s, was famously infiltrated by the rozzers. Befriending members, extorting information, fake relationships etc etc.
Anyway,
Feck em :))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPOM0IUsd_0
Read back thru everything. Took me time, finally arrived at my own conclusions for what they’re worth. Should just cut to the quick, it being so late here and that, and sleep is needed before work:
My major point – There is such great irony abounding, in that the very mindset the GB banners questioned is being employed to persectute them.
Who felt it necessary to complain? Who felt it necessary to begin the hysterical responses?
Was it YOU, Hun lurker, media bitch?
None of the Celtic support thought it merited more than a few vague asides when you read back through match updates on various blogs. A few sardonic remarks and a number of wtf?s, that was about the sum of it.
Whether you agree with the sentiments – and most of us would – or whether the time and place was pertinent – and that brings greater division of opinion – it must be noted that the REAL cause of consternation among so many was the banner depicting Bobby Sands.
I doubt the GB could have created more of a hair-pulling, self-flagellating frenzy had they popped up a banner of Mohammed lighting a bomb.
That’s the real shtick going down – the fact that a publically-displayed image of an IRA hunger striker/ elected MP induces such anxiety in Scottish society 2013; what venemous prejudices bubble under the surface of this insular wee nation?
Don’t be fooled by the wicked Hun fascists in the SMSM who will flog this to death until they divide the Celtic support, demonise further the GB and ramp up the polis bully-boys into a frenzy.
That’s my only real complaint about it – the point was made, yes, and the response predictable and very telling. But those behind it in the GB must have known the possible cost. Exposing a nation’s hypocritical black heart and bigoted soul will casue many more young lads the pain of being on the receiving end of Salmond’s brand of jusitce.
I think their judgement was off.
I think they did not take into account the feeling of the greater support.
I think they let Celtic down by bringing politics to the forefront of a Celtic Park Champoins League night.
But…
Should Peter Lawwell ban them? What, at the behest of some sleekit little nazis in the Scottish press? Don’t be ridiculous.
What Peter Lawwell might be advised to do is appease everyone – surely his major CEO skill given the position he finds himself in.
Perhaps he might realise that young men are suffering in life purely because of their love for Celtic. That an act of law fashioned by bigots, for bigots, is being actively implemented with the sinister enthusiasm the National Socialists of the 1930s had for crystalnacht.
Perhaps he might realise that Tuesday’s furore might never have happened if those young men felt in any way that Celtic PLC, to which they give such a large percentage of their life’s earnings, had their backs in some way when the billy-boy rozzers are smashing down their doors at 4am.
As it is, the GB carried the plea, the message. They alienated many in the execution of it.
But it is a Celtic bone of contention. Something for the GB, the club, and the rest of the support to debate.
It is NOT a bone of contention for the SMSM, the Huns, or any other half-witted political point-scoring rent-a-gub. They only care about one thing, one image which, abstractly, still represents terror in their collective psyche.
The GB should apologise. To the rest of us, mainly for catching us unawares, mainly for misjudging the moment.
I don’t think they need apologise to Celtic plc. The context of the banner caused no offence. UEFA, corrupt to the core, will fine regardless – e.g the ‘F UEFA’ subtlety of Udinese; political? Hah.
Where the GB go from now? Hopefully from strength to strength. Hopefully as raucously as their youthful verve dictates. Hopefully with more nous and wiser strategy.
The media and polis will try to smash them, look for Celtic plc to facilitate that as much as possilbe. Celtic plc must be very careful not to jump on any bandwagon or step into line with the torch-carrying march.
We’ve never been as gullible as the Huns. Never swallowd greedily the bull shovelled by the SMSM. Never let the club fail in shame and misery.
And now the definitions must be clear. Two separate agendas here; one ignited by a simple line drawing of a martyr and another more intrinsic to the soul of Celtic.
I’d say let the ignorant bray their angst over a damn picture, and let us Celtic supporters debate whether there is a line drawn between club and fanbase and how distant must the relationship necessarily be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44Ta8ekk9k8