In his Q&A session with the Daily Record yesterday, outgoing SPFL chairman, Ralph Topping touched on the subject of who knew what when, regarding Rangers slide into liquidation saying:
“There wasn’t one single person ever who envisaged this case happening. You tell me who pointed out that this was going to happen – did you?
“The biggest assumption about the set-up in the SPL would be that you would have Rangers and Celtic playing in it in perpetuity – nobody thought that those two bastions of football would ever be involved in anything like this and nobody flagged it up.”
Well, in October 2011 I knew. This CQN article from 27 October 2011 notes in very specific detail Rangers were going to liquidate, a phoenix would be created which wanted direct access to the SPL (the top flight at that time). I got the timing wrong, predicting the phoenix would take place during the season, but to be fair, it later became clear this was Craig Whyte’s plan at the time.
Ralph Topping’s SPL knew too. Rangers alerted them to the situation that very month. The SPL spend November, December and January preparing the ground for Rangers administration and liquidation, a period during which a new TV deal was signed.
This stunning Lisbon canvas signed by Billy McNeill is available for raffle on behalf of the 2017 CQN Open, being held at Aberdour Golf Club TODAY Friday 28 July.
All proceeds go to the Celtic FC Foundation and Walk with Shay. The draw will be made live at the CQN Open this evening. Tickets cost £2, ONLY A FEW HOURS remaining. Enter here on ebay.
Fill your boots!
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29 JULY UPDATE – NEW CQN PODCAST – CELTS FOR CHANGE – OUT NOW – LISTEN BELOW…
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SUPERSUTTON on 29TH JULY 2017 9:48 PM
Sunderland’s league campaign starts on Friday, the day before ours. Fitness had nothing to do with it today, they are just mince.
GARY67
it was strange they said a couple of times on Celtic TV about Sunderland being rusty then someone posted on here Gene I think that their league starts next Friday.
They were total mince and we made them look worse than that!!
TSOAL
A boat in Wishae ?
Has the Cross Keys been flooded
Mr E
Your an awfy braw lad…
Regards to the smile…
Smiley Columbo thing..
Braw.
Oglach on 29th July 2017 1:22 pm
Canamalar it looks like OCD obsession on 29th July 2017 11:53 am
===
Mo Chara, having lived through the conflict in the North of Ireland and having a father who was actively involved in the armed struggle, being jailed in the Kesh – escaped, recaptured and jailed again for a number of years. I would like to point out that IMHO the banners at the Linfield game did nothing but denigrate the sacrifice of those who fought ‘the good fight’. To make light of such a terrible period in Ireland’s history portrays the originators of these displays as nothing more than petulant idiots or even worse “Plastic Provos” with no real understanding of the aims of the Irish Republican movement.
Celtic FCs support encompasses a wide spectrum of political and religious beliefs and with that we are sure disagree on a lot of matters. I can recall Scottish soldiers wrecking our wee home in Belfast and then trying to engage me in conversation about their being Celtic supporters and telling me how their mum came from Dublin after having seen the pictures of Celtic players I had on my bed room walls. At the time did I consider these men Celtic supporters given the history of Celtic FC? No – but I was wrong, they were and are. No doubt these very same ‘Brits’ now sit in the stands at Celtic park, one or two may even post on here moaning and wringing their hands about the young teams ‘song book’.
The Irish diaspora in the West of Scotland , from which Celtic traditionally draws large sections of its support, have always had an element with a tendency to support militant Irish republicanism in so far as De Valera stating “The financial contribution to the Irish struggle from among the Scottish communities was in excess of funds from any other country, including Ireland.” That ‘tradition’ still manifests itself today in TGB and with the Republican song book still being belted out at Celtic park. Is this right given the ‘peace processes’ in the North of Ireland? Not for me to say. However few on here have pointed out that the struggle for Irish Independence continues albeit thankfully wholly by the ballot box now and until ‘the dawning of the day’ our support is more than likely to contain a large number of individual who wish to eulogize those who have struggled for Irish freedom in song at Celtic park just as their fathers and grandfathers have done. For those who categorically state that Irish Republicanism / nationalism has never been a part of Celtics history – well we all know that’s absolute bollo*ks. Should we stop singing Sean South and BOTOB or ban other displays in support of the cause? Again not for me to say but draconian measures to eradicate it will, imo, fail and be counterproductive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Respect
Braw
Muchas Gracious, she says the same :-)
HH
Gerryfaethebrig
A Boat?
A feckin coffin is needed for half the crackers returning from weirside
love
Werewolves of London :
https://youtu.be/iDpYBT0XyvA
HH.
TWISTS N TURNS on 29TH JULY 2017 8:46 PM :
The game in Nottingham was 23/11/1983. It was some experience, I was there. We were packed in like Sardines, never showed my ticket, the Police opened up the big gate normally opened 10/15 minutes before F-T. But for the grace of God it could have been a Hillsborough.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
Man City v Spurs 11pm kick off, wee Paddy on the bench.
Game is on Premier Sports.
Lennybhoy 10.17pm
Same story from many Celtic fans the City Ground was by all accounts scary that night
bournesouprecipe on 29th July 2017 6:32 pm
August 7, 1965
Sunderland 0 Celtic 5
================
I was there. Travelled down on the Kent Star CSC bus, was introduced after the game by my pal to Newcastle Brown Ale.
That put pressure on the friendship and on a nightmare journey home tried and failed to sound sober to an older cousin from Chicago over on holiday. Lucky he was no Lee Wallace and my old man never heard. Who am I kidding, somebody else on the bus would have blabbed. It was the Calton after all.
I cannot remember anything about the game except we were good.
Lennybhoy ‘Packed in like sardines’. It wasn’t much better in the home leg at CP. Hh
Famous five programme is a no bad watch on Alba, only put it on as I thought Enid Blyton wrote the script
Gordon64
When were you ever a sardine ? you are more a tuna man
Lov e
Lenny
I was there. Something made me think it was 79, but yeah it was frightening.
SOAL I can assure you that I was not always this fine specimen of overweight manhood that you now know and in ’83 was svelte youth like your good self amigo. Hh
Guilty Pleasure
The Hibees singing
Sunshine on Leith to a very empty Sevco end of Hampden (in the sun)
Whilst Sunderland may start their league campaign next week, they have had zero competitive games. We have had three.
Sunderland were rusty , aye right they were utter pish !! MON THE HOOPS !!!
City Ground Nottingham could have been horrendous,
McGregor is a cert to start in Norway and TR will not be playing up front. Hh
GERRYFAETHEBRIG on 29TH JULY 2017 11:02 PM
Guilty Pleasure
The Hibees singing
Sunshine on Leith to a very empty Sevco end of Hampden (in the sun
That was truly magnificent HH the pub juke box made fortunes in the weeks after it
https://twitter.com/CelticLisboa/status/891328357786320898
G64- was in the Vogue today, how you doing?
Bada Fine my big mate. Watched the game in Chapman’s. Hh
https://youtu.be/rE-Why8N2I0
What a choon
Campbell Ogilvie admits he was ‘aware’ of Rangers EBT scheme but had no role in player contracts
Making a statement: Campbell Ogilvie moved to clarify his former role at Rangers
By Telegraph staff and agencies
5:38PM GMT 14 Mar 2012
Campbell Ogilvie has vowed to continue in his role as Scottish Football Association president as he insisted he had no role in “drafting or administering” player contracts at Rangers after the mid-1990s.
Ogilvie has come under pressure after the SFA and then the Scottish Premier League vowed to investigate the alleged non-disclosure of payments to Rangers players during his spell at Ibrox.
The former Rangers company secretary confirmed he had been a member of the Employee Benefit Trust (EBT) scheme, which was the subject of a tax tribunal in January and could cost the Ibrox club £49 million.
Ogilvie moved to clarify his role at the club and insisted he would “look forward to new and exciting challenges ahead at the Scottish FA”.
Ogilvie, who was employed at Ibrox from 1978 until leaving for Hearts in 2005, spoke out after his position was questioned given the ongoing investigation into Rangers’ financial affairs.
Ogilvie protested his innocence over the contracts issue although he admitted benefiting from the controversial EBT scheme.
In a statement published on the SFA’s website, Ogilvie said: “In light of today’s comments by (former Rangers owner) Sir David Murray, and the ongoing speculation surrounding my role as president of the Scottish FA and my previous employment as a director of Rangers FC, I would like to take this opportunity to clarify the following points.
“I was aware of the EBT scheme in operation at Rangers during my time at the club and, indeed, was a member. The existence of the scheme was published in Rangers’ annual accounts.
“My role at Rangers, until the mid-90s, included finalising the paperwork for player registrations.
“As confirmed by Sir David Murray today, it was never my role to negotiate contracts during my time at Rangers.
“It is also worth noting that, since the mid-90s, I was not responsible for the drafting or administering of player contracts.
“I ceased being company secretary in 2002 and became general secretary responsible for football strategy, in effect becoming the main point of contact between the club and the respective league and governing bodies.
“In relation to the recent investigation, I can confirm that I asked to be excluded from the Scottish FA’s independent inquiry into Rangers.
“In the interests of good governance it was absolutely right that this was the case.”
The SFA’s recent inquiry into Rangers briefly incorporated allegations of undisclosed payments to players following claims by former Ibrox director Hugh Adam.
Adam claimed some payments were not included in official contracts that were registered with the football authorities, with the 86-year-old “pretty sure” similar payments were being made as early as the mid-1990s.
The EBT scheme ran from 2001 to 2010 and followed a similar offshore payments programme from 1999-2003, which sparked a separate £2.8 million claim from Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. Rangers last year conceded this case but Craig Whyte did not pay the sum after taking over in May.
The SFA dropped their investigations into the issue after the SPL announced an inquiry into the alleged non-disclosure of payments to players from 1998, although the main governing body would hear any appeal.
Ogilvie is determined to carry on in his role, which he was elected to in June last year following a spell as vice-president.
“I am proud and privileged to be president of the Scottish FA during an exciting period in its history,” he said.
“I have an excellent relationship with our chief executive, Stewart Regan, and the board of directors.
“I would like to thank them for their support throughout this process and look forward to new and exciting challenges ahead at the Scottish FA.”
Meanwhile, Rangers may not be in administration because of a legal technicality, it has emerged.
A hearing is to be held at the Court of Session in Edinburgh on March 19 to settle the issue.
Accountants Duff and Phelps were supposed to have been appointed administrators of Rangers Football Club plc last month.
The Financial Services Authority was not notified, meaning administration was not legally binding.
That Telegraph Article from March 2012 is interesting in the light of the SPFL Q&A with the Record.
Hail Hail
You can see from the get go we have a problem…
The SFA Inquiry Passed the EBT issue the SPL who had no rule for non-payment of Taxes, of course they also had no rule regarding bringing the game into disrepute.
There are more questions than answers…
Q: Was the old SPL having no rule for non-payment of taxes negligible?
NEIL DONCASTER: “Arguably, the non-payment of millions of pounds of taxes could be construed as bringing the game into disrepute and that is an area reserved for the Scottish FA.
“It’s not an area which the SPL as was – or the SPFL as is now – is allowed to get into. If you look at the period from 1999 and the next decade or so, neither UEFA nor other leagues across Europe had rules to cover this sort of thing.
“Rules concerning financial fair play and non-payment of tax are fairly recent innovations across European football.”
RALPH TOPPING: “There wasn’t one single person ever who envisaged this case happening. You tell me who pointed out that this was going to happen – did you?
“The biggest assumption about the set-up in the SPL would be that you would have Rangers and Celtic playing in it in perpetuity – nobody thought that those two bastions of football would ever be involved in anything like this and nobody flagged it up.
“Whether that was negligible is a legitimate area for the commission to look at.”
Q: Why was it deemed there was no sporting advantage from improper registrations?
ROD McKENZIE: “There are a number of things which are incorrect in that proposition. Firstly, the payments were not made to players, they were made into a trust and then the sub-trust lent the money to the families of the players, which is part of the problem.
“The Supreme Court has now ruled that, while there was no payment to those players, they should be treated as remuneration to players. Nobody in football understood that one of its clubs was going to use a tax scheme like this for players.
“It’s sometimes suggested that, somehow, the SPL or the SFA got notice of this: they didn’t. There is certainly reference in Rangers’ accounts to them using EBTs – EBTs were widely used industry – but nothing was said to indicate they were being used for players.
“The reason Rangers didn’t lodge the documentation with the SPL – and Lord Nimmo Smith helped us establish this – was that they didn’t believe they had to because they weren’t making those payments to the players and, therefore, they didn’t believe they were under obligation under the rules to lodge those documents.
“It had nothing to do with disclosure to HMRC because the SPL and the SFA were not in the business of disclosing documents to HMRC.
“The reason Rangers did not give that documentation to the SFA and the SPL was not to hide it from the tax authorities.”
Q: But the side letters were performance-related trust payments?
ROD McKENZIE: “All I can say is that the side letters did not relate to payments to the players – they related to payments to the trusts. Rangers – incorrectly, in Lord Nimmo Smith’s decision – took the view they did not need to file them with the SPL because they weren’t about payments to players.
“And they had advice about this, so they said. They were still in breach of the rules and were punished accordingly by the commission but they said – and I’m not here to apologise for them – that there was no competitive advantage gained by not filing the papers.”
Q: Can Scottish football move forward?
RALPH TOPPING: “There are some legitimate areas that we could explore with supporters and with clubs with an eye on improvement, in an attempt to cauterise the wound if you like, the sore. Whether we are successful in that is not up to me to determine. The only question I have ever asked when I have been sat around the boardroom table is ‘what is the right thing to do guys?’ If people want to point the finger and say ‘you got it wrong’ then fine.”
Q: Do you think the punishment fitted the crime?
RALPH TOPPING: “If they want to examine me on that issue I am happy to put myself forward on it as will board members. Who sits on the review body? Lawyers have had a disproportionate interest in the subject, they still have. Getting the balance right on that review body in terms of quantity of people, background of the individuals involved, and think about how people in Scotland will view them. We need to work with the SFA on that. There is a lot of good people along at the SFA. Everybody in Scottish football should have their opportunity to have their say and the review body report on it.”
Q: Are you happy you personally couldn’t have done any more?
RALPH TOPPING: “I am satisfied we have gone through the legal process and we have done the responsible thing in terms of getting wiser minds than I’ve got to look at it from a legal perspective. We have taken that advice and we have acted on it. People can be critical all they want, but we haven’t set out in anything other than in a sincere fashion to try and do the right thing.”
Q: Was the Rangers EBT situation morally wrong?
RALPH TOPPING: “Some will inevitably have that view. However, we were looking at the rules as were. That is the only thing left to a body.”
Q: Have you had any feedback from Celtic?
RALPH TOPPING: ”We’ve had a number of people expressing a viewpoint. There were no dissenting voices around the board table.”
ROD McKENZIE: “It would be fair to observe that Celtic are one of the clubs who, since the Supreme Court decision, has called for a review. They did not contribute to the board meeting because no Celtic person stood for election for the board.”
Q: Looking forward, under these rules if it’s shown a club hasn’t paid taxes during a period when they won a title or a trophy, is title stripping a sanction that could now be applied?
RALPH TOPPING: ”I wouldn’t like to prejudge matters – but, yes, that is now available.”
ROD McKENZIE: ”The rule works so that clubs must tell us within two days if they’ve defaulted on a tax payment. If that happens they are automatically barred from registering players over the age of 21.
“If the club does go into default, and doesn’t tell us within two days and also with-holds information from HMRC and we find out, then that is a breach of the rules.
“And there are a wide range of penalties for that…including points deductions, which happened to Livingston who didn’t tell us they had defaulted on their tax.
“In a situation where a club wins a league, where they hadn’t told us about a tax default and they continued to default in their obligations, then one of the possible sanctions which could be imposed would be removal of the title.”
Q: Rules you now have in place can prevent the situation happening again?
NEIL DONCASTER: “We certainly hope so. Again, part of this independent review will be if there are further suggestions to further tighten the rules then we should he absolutely open to them.”
RALPH TOPPING: “There may be areas that football would want to look at – fit and proper person might come into that category. It’s an area where other leagues have found it difficult to get the perfect definition and perfect rules to apply.”
Q: Can Scottish football really move on when some fans will always carry baggage?
NEIL DONCASTER: “That’s why transparency and openness are the themes. There is so much misunderstanding about everything that has happened involving Rangers over the past six years. We absolutely welcome dialogue with clubs and supporter groups. We welcome their questions. We will be as open as we can.”
Q: If there was another insolvency event at Ibrox would that be considered as a first or second offence?
ROD McKENZIE: “Second. As it stands. There is a time period between insolvency events which I think is five years. So it might not now be 25 points. I think it is a five-year period between, and if you have a further insolvency event within the five year period then you get a further 25 point deduction. At Rangers in 2011 was the administration but they went into liquidation in 2012. We are just still within the five year period.”
Down Among the Big Boys
WILLIE COLLOW
WILLIE COLLOW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKISIob88kI
Good morning? Been to Edinburgh today with wife and friends . Had a great day, on train home 930! Lots of Celtic fans join train both wife’s comment on how friendly they are . Train leaves Edinburgh and announcement comes over no drinking after 9pm allowed f££k that anyways 20 min into journey muppet apologises for singing and says anyone offended can move to front two carriages . Then says anyone offend by the singing to contact the relevant authorities with their complaints !!!! Ps Soal see you are on tonight you will no me and wife clue Angela!!!
SOUTH AYRSHIRE FENIAN FOXES ON THE NIGHT SHIFT HH !!
Gary67 on 29th July 2017 9:11 pm
“McGregor rightly gets the credit for his performance and hat trick but for me MOTM was . Broke up play, kept possession, played simple, effective passes and ran non stop until he was substituted with 10mins to go. Of the youngsters Ralston looks the most impresssive and the most likely to break through this season.”
I was also impressed with Eboue in the Lyon game.
That must have been our youngest ever back 4.
Ralston 18
Ajer 19
Tierney 20
Miller 19
Kouassi 19
RALPH TOPPING: “There wasn’t one single person ever who envisaged this case happening. You tell me who pointed out that this was going to happen – did you?
Well apart from apart from Paul67 we had Huge Adam and the then “conflicted” President of the SFA may have known…
“It is also worth noting that, since the mid-90s, I was not responsible for the drafting or administering of player contracts.
Well worth noting – if you knew what was going on after that date.
Hail Hail
Bon Iver – For Emma, Forever Ago
https://youtu.be/x5Swa9CYgRk
Audioslave – Like a Stone…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7QU1nvuxaMA