Some things in football defy satisfactory explanation. Top of that list is Alex McLeish’s Rangers winning a treble against Martin O’Neill’s Celtic in 2002-03. I know they were financially doped, as Michel Platini would put it, and I know we had the whole Seville thing going on that season, but Celtic were clearly the stronger side.
A gulf between the sides opened the following season, wider-still than the enormous talent of The Swede, but we were left to ponder what went wrong in the final weeks of season 2004-05 as Celtic an unfit looking Celtic were pipped, again, by McLeish.
During that period, he won everything he got close to.
Subsequent years have not been kind to the reputation of either McLeish or O’Neill. But whereas Martin got Ireland to Euro 2016, McLeish bumped around from one Birmingham failure to another. He had to go to Egypt to get a job, but was sacked after two months of dismal failure. Surely a gig in the amateur game would follow?
Exactly! Where else is more amateur than the SFA. What was not good enough for Zamalek SC was perfect for the Scotland national team. We all knew McLeish was a busted flush, but the sheer level of amateurism at the SFA led to Michael O’Neill being courted, then publicly rebuffing the SFA due to their (cough) amateurism.
The problem with all of this is when people at the top stop caring, the apathy percolates down to you and me. We are no longer engaged with international football as fans. That ship has sailed and may never return. I love the World Cup and the Euros, but I don’t support anyone. I plan things to do during the autumn and spring international breaks, they are a welcome space in the calendar.
None of this is Alex McLeish’ fault. He’s just a coach caught miles out of his depth, who built a career on figuring out that playing three up against Celtic’s tanker-ship back three was the way to go.
I would shutter the SFA and Hampden in a minute. They played an important role for a century but neither is fit for the purposes of the game in Scotland. The SFA only came into being because of geography. Rail travel was not good enough for Queens Park to fulfil fixtures. If the transport routes between Glasgow and the East Midlands were better, Queens would never have taken the initiative to form a local association.
Football is now a pan-national sport and business. If you were to re-imagine appropriate structures from scratch, they would not look anything like the SFA. We have jets and the M74. Admit we have moved on and join the FA.
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Greenpinata 6.42
In 2018 alone, 875 churches were vandalised in France according to official police figures. A church in Paris was set ablaze in March.
Do you have a source?
Thanks in advance :-)
HH
Nothing here….but I’m in EK BTW…
!!bada bing!!
Oh aye? How is the weather then?
SFTB
the funniest thing about the OO is that they are set up to defend a Protestant Ascendency that they were never part of . The Ascendency in Ireland was Anglican and 100% of those lads align with Presbyterianism which had penal laws against them too. They are not part of the elite that they love. Covenanters fought the royals over this. Sad
Scaniel- well done,please take care of the donkeys i bet at Aintree recently…
BY PAUL67 ON 18TH APRIL 2019
“I would shutter the SFA and Hampden in a minute. They played an important role for a century but neither is fit for the purposes of the game in Scotland. The SFA only came into being because of geography. Rail travel was not good enough for Queens Park to fulfill fixtures. If the transport routes between Glasgow and the East Midlands were better, Queens would never have taken the initiative to form a local association.”
*And if it hadn’t been for World Champions Renton FC the spiders would still be running the game.
Here is a piece I posted around 18 months ago; a wee bit of germane to today, editing has taken place:
As we are all aware 132 years ago Marist Lay Brothers Sligo born Walfrid and his close friend Dundonian Dorothea attended a meeting called by master builder John Glass, a mhan allegedly blessed with the gift of the gab, also present were prominent business men within the local parishes of St Michael’s, Sacred Heart & St Mary’s.
These great men shared the same political ideologies of equality, liberty, fraternity, integration and non-sectarianism.
Within less than 3 years, as a result of their astute business minds and vision, they were running the game; much tae the consternation of the Scottish Football Association (SFA) whose disdain for our great club has continued unabated since then and not necessarily for sectarian reasons either.
Organised football in Scotland began in 1873 with the formation of the SFA. During the next 15 years or so challenge matches were arranged between clubs as well as cup games including the Scottish, Glasgow and Glasgow Merchants Charity Cups, the latter’s name being shortened tae the Charity Cup which was initially open tae all local clubs and not just those from the Dear Green Place.
NOTE BENE: ALL GAMES WERE PLAYED UNDER THE REGULATIONS OF THE SFA.
In response to the professionalization of the game down south The Football League was formed in 1888 with the regular diet of league fixtures replacing the chaotic arrangement of friendlies. Many Scottish players did what a lot of Scotsmen did, and still do, moved down south chasing the “big penny”.
This prompted Scottish clubs into thinking about forming their own league and in March 1890, the secretary of World Champions Renton Peter Fairly wrote to thirteen other clubs inviting them to discuss the organisation of a league.
All of the clubs accepted the invitation, except Queen’s Park and Clyde. The latter would join a year later but amateur club Queen’s Park, who were the oldest organised club in Scotland and had played a key role in the development of the game, were opposed to the league because it would lead to professionalism and eliminate many of the smaller clubs and if the truth be told remove their influence on the game.
The Scottish Football League (SFL) was inaugurated on 30 April 1890 with future Celtic Vice-President and Chairman John H. McLaughlin (the Peter Lawwell of his day) on being recognised as one of the prime movers of the League head hunted by the management team; this included a certain demagogue baillie ure-primrose, as Secretary.
Of the 11 clubs involved only 3, us, the calvinists and St Mirren (not for long though), remain in the top league, while Dumbarton are in the Championship with the Vale of Leven in the juniors. The rest are deid.
Edinburgh club St Bernard’s who were involved in the early discussions on forming the SFL were not invited and were actually expelled by them from membership for concealed professionalism. However, they soon found a way around this and the members immediately formed another club called “Edinburgh Saints” and arranged to play a friendly against the Renton.
The SFA, who were to retain its supremacy over football in Scotland, refused permission for the match to proceed, and rightly so, but the clubs went ahead regardless. This challenged the authority of the SFA, who expelled the two clubs from membership and suspended their players for the rest of the 1890–91 season, KEEP THIS IN MIND!!!!
We are talking about Renton here who initially sent out the call for the formation of the SPL and who 2 years earlier were World Champions and supplied us with two of our initial team, captain James Kelly and first goalscorer Neilly McCallum.
Renton only played one game in the first season of the SFL, it was a surprising 4-1 away win over the up and coming east end club, however, as stated above this result was voided.
Our next game, officially our first in the SFL, was through in Edinburgh where we defeated the home calvinist side comfortably 5-0, however, it was determined that our goalie Bell who was signed after the loss the week before when we had international wing half James McLaren, a member of the great Hibbees Scottish Cup winning side of 1887 in goal, he would revert back tae his original left half position for this game, was deemed ineligible as his clearance was not as yet completed a fortnight after his last match at his previous club Dumbarton, must have been a lost pigeon as opposed tae a faulty fax machine 106 years later. THE SFA AGAIN BACK THEN.
Although it was only 2 points for a win we were deducted 4, even with the mhan that coined the phrase “Paradise” as the Secretary of the SFL, however so were 3rd LRV and Cowlairs for the same reason, RULES ARE RULES!!!!, the latter as a result finished bottom of the League and as there was no relegation, re-election to compete in the League for the next season was required, they failed. Now this was an SFL ruling and not the SFA.
It should be noted here that although we were deducted 4 points we were still allowed to keep our goals scored and the points weren’t awarded to the opposition.
One consolation that inaugural season is that even though we had finished 6 points behind joint winners Dumbarton and deidco, meaning our 4 point deduction was now irrelevant, we had the pleasure of defeating the latter away 2-1 in the penultimate game thus ensuring they would only share the title, after a drawn play-off, with the Super Sons even though the Rock had a superior goal difference, that didn’t come into play until the following season, so much for going for 55.
Scottish football was anti-Celtic until 1920 at least as a result of the hostility felt by the SFA on our involvement and running of the SFL, we as a “Johnny” or should I say “Seannie Come Lately” came to the forefront, at the request of the other clubs including a wee Kinning Park based one as a result of our board’s professional expertise, of the game.
This continued especially when the one eyed widow’s sons took over at Govan, and on through the years culminating in the staffing of the games ruling bodies and the assistance of the smsm by the mendacious and narcissistic Ayrshire rag and bone man.
Forget about Livi, Dundee Utd, Spartans etc who have all been punished in some form by the SFA, take at look at St Bernards who at one time were as powerful in Edinburgh as both Hibs and Hearts and were one of the initial proponents of the SFL after they appealed their suspension and allowed tae join the SFL they were never the same again
Similarly World Champions Renton who as a result of the suspension lost their captain Andrew Hannah who moved to and starred in Everton’s 1891 championship team and on the split in the Toffee ranks which resulted in the formation of Liverpool FC joined the Anfield club along with 4 other members of that all conquering Tontine Park side who incidentally are joint holders of the record breaking 6-1 SC Final score along with that plucky wee team who they met in the first SFL game. Both James Kelly and Neilly McCallum played in that 1888 final 3 months before turning out in our opening game with the latter scoring in both.
Both sides were expelled from the game for “BREAKING THE RULES”. Both are now lost to the game.
Then there was us, 3rd LRV founder members of the SFA and Cowlairs founded in 1876 who actually participated in the FA Cup. All 3 were deducted points for allegedly “BREAKING THE RULES”; in fact as stated above the latter was also denied re-election to the SPL.
Of the 5 clubs mentioned who suffered punishment we are the only one still playing and have been there ever since no matter how hard they tried to undermine us.
In 1988 another “Johnny Come Lately” arrived on the scene and within a couple of years tried tae form his own League. He had the colours and emblem already chosen as he approached all the other major clubs to break away from the SFL and join him, he required 100% approval though, he almost got there until one club saw through this ruse for personal gain, the same club that was approached around 100 years previous to form the existing professional body that ran the League and stated this as there rationale for refusing to destroy a viable concern that produced some of the best teams and players in Scottish football history .
As a result it all fell through and at the time I thought “we’ll pay for this”, we nearly did almost a year later when with the backing of his “brithers” at the bank we almost went to the wall for a debt of 5.2 million while the same bank 6 years earlier had given this individual, who had previously been hunted by the board of Ayr United FC as untrustworthy (no wonder they call them the Honest Men), 6 million to buy the club he eventually destroyed.
However, they underestimated the faithful through and through including a wee mhan fae Croy and another fae Mayo who ensured our club will never die.
3rd LRV who would later be renamed Third Lanark continued and were one of our top clubs until an unprincipled board in 1967, when Scottish club football was at the height of its power three days after we had qualified for the final of the European Cup, a week previous deidco had won through to the Cup-Winners Cup final and Kilmarnock were about to take on the mighty Leeds United in the Fair Cities Cup semi-final, drove the club into liquidation with debts of £40,000, around £500,000 today, a trifling sum even then.
A subsequent Board of Trade inquiry described the disastrous operation under their Chairman as an “inefficient and unscrupulous one-man business”. Four fellow directors were convicted of breaches of the Companies Acts and fined; the major culprit’s death in November 1967 prevented the Chairman being the fifth.
And yet less than 5 miles away another one man show operation that has also seen another club driven into liquidation has seen the culprit knighted and no custodial sentences for his partners in crime.
Breaking the rules and yet as lifelong Jags supporter Ian Archer once said “As a Scottish Football club they are a permanent embarrassment and an occasional disgrace, this country would be a better place if they did not exist”, they still do and are even accommodated for doing so.
Scottish football once a threat in Europe and not that long ago, well pre 1988, is 3rd world now and rapidly descending.
So there we have it, a precedent has been set over 100 years before badergate. The old SFL and NOT the SFA punished the clubs for playing unregistered players by invoking a points deduction.
Why is this not possible now with deidco, or are the Speculative Society and Ayrshire’s Harold Steptoe to powerful for the tenants at hunden park and the rest of the game or does the latter have the proverbial photies.
We as a club were at the forefront of the working man’s game and helped rescue it from the amateurish body of middle class gentleman at the SFA; we also helped stop it falling into the hands of a deceitful charlatan, no matter how hard he tried, and we now have the opportunity to restore this wee country of around 5.4 million that has given the world so much in engineering, science, culture and sport to its place once again in the people’s game, if only we could shed it of its “billy or a dan or an oul tin can” mentality.
Queens Park similar tae the sfa have never liked us as we removed them fae their pedestal as THE premier club in the country, they did appear in 2 FA cup finals BTW, and yet we always seemed tae give out the hand of friendship toward them including donation a huge some tae their renovation of the stadium which they used tae put a cover over the traditional hun end.
I’ve always put this down tae a former chairman, the one who bulleted the Big Mhan and Big Billy, having played for them pre-WWII, 105 games.
IMHO opinion a despicable man but he did say this about “his name is big Geordie he’s loyal and true and his durty big nose is the right shade of blue” ‘He’ll roast in Hell for what he tried to do to Celtic.’
CONEYBHOY on 18TH APRIL 2019 7:31 PM
SFTB
the funniest thing about the OO is that they are set up to defend a Protestant Ascendency that they were never part of . The Ascendency in Ireland was Anglican and 100% of those lads align with Presbyterianism which had penal laws against them too. They are not part of the elite that they love. Covenanters fought the royals over this.
*Exactly, in fact their disdain fr the presbies was no different from that tae ben afflecks.
An Tearmann.
There are many sources, here is one :-
https://www.ibtimes.com/notre-dame-cathedral-fire-not-arson-875-french-churches-vandalized-2018-2785886
https://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/65077/1310473573/clockworkorangemen.gif
A 25-year-old man has been arrested and charged with attempted murder following an incident in Glasgow city centre after the Old Firm derby on March 31.
We understand the 47-year-old victim remains in a critical condition in hospital.
The incident occurred in the aftermath of Celtic’s 2-1 derby win last month.
Police Scotland released a statement on Thursday which read: “With reference to our previous appeal for information regarding the attempted murder of a 47-year-old man in Blackfriars Street, in the Merchant City area of Glasgow, on Sunday 31 March 2019.
Tontine…once again…magic…but who the eff calls their wean Dundonian Dorothea ;-))
SFTB…they would be better calling themselves SPUD….Scottish Protestants Uber Discriminators…and the irony would be lost on thum ;-))
Thanks TLT, his real name Henry Currie and he came fae Dundee, it was he who initially proposed the name Celtic in an effort tae calm the waters between the teuchter Catholics and the Irish ones as the former felt they were trying tae take over.
Ryan Christie out for rest of season
BOURNESOUPRECIPE on 18TH APRIL 2019 8:29 PM
I think the rules should be rewritten . A player who is sent off for maiming an opponent should be suspended for the same number of games as his victim misses through injury.
Might encourage an outbreak of fitba in Scotland instead of the ol’ martial arts.
SOT
Just watchn Ars game
Attendance looks sh**e
Are they resigned ?
Glen,
Every once in a while a poster on here comes out with a comment/view/ suggestion which is outstandingly simple and relevant and accurate.
Take a bow for your suggestion at 8.36pm. Many examples of brilliance are simple – your’s qualifies in spades. (BUT ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, it’ll never, ever work in Scotia, for the obvious reasons!)
GlenDalysTonsils
There is dangerous play…or violent conduct…you will never be able to prove hostile intent…are you promoting football as a non-contact sport?
EMERALDBEE
It just seems fundamentally wrong to me , that when we next face Aberdeen for example , the innocent victim (Christie) will be unavailable to us while the thug Ball will be able to turn out for Aberdeen.
Ideally the guy should be facing a custodial sentence.
It’s probably already been asked and answered, but why are The Apprentice Boys of Derry not called The Apprentice Boys of Londonderry??
THELURKINTIM on 18TH APRIL 2019 9:02 PM
There is no doubt in my mind , having seen the photographic evidence floating around the internet , that Ball’s challenge was beyond reckless…..that’s only my opinion.
I don’t really see how that is promoting football as a non contact sport?
Lol ;-))))) Because of when they were formed?
THELURKINTIM on 18TH APRIL 2019 9:13 PM
Lol ;-))))) Because of when they were formed?
——————————————————————-
Seems like an oversight now. They need to modernise…
:-)))
GlenDalysTonsils,
For that( assault on RC) as an example… not to ever happen…you would need a contacless sport, no?
THELURKINTIM on 18TH APRIL 2019 9:22 PM
Non contact would ruin the game but even that would not absolutely guarantee that serious injury could be avoided .
Assault is a different matter though and incidents like the Christie assault should merit greater scrutiny and perhaps a stiffer punishment for the perpetrator. Just a personal opinion.
To everyone who has passed on their congrats, here is a link to the Big Reveal. We’re the second one in – Going Undercover. Hope it works.
http://www.itv.com/news/border/2019-04-18/the-peoples-project-winners-revealed/
NATKNOW ,because them orange bassas call it Londonderry and the catholic population call it derry, I might be wrong, but that’s the way I was led to believe.hh.
Congratulations Scaniel, had an amazing day and your news is the cherry on the cake, Ní neart go cur le cheile which is an Irish saying which roughly translates as There is no strength without unity, when Celts get together whether in Scotland, Ireland, US or Oz we will never be defeated.
Well done to everybody.
http://celticbynumberscom.ipage.com/dons-turn-hampden-red/
Aberdeen’s obvious frustration may stem from the foothold they had in the game in the first half. Ill-discipline ultimately provided Celtic an easy afternoon.
CORKCELT at 9:49 – You’re encouragement really gave us a big boost…and I like your other saying “It’s what we Tims do” and how true is that!
Have to wind down now after all the excitement – emotionally exhausted.
Cheers, All
Well done Scaniel
If you missed David Attenborough’s programme on climate change on BBC at 9pm catch it on the iplayer. Scary stuff.
NATKNOW on 18TH APRIL 2019 9:08 PM
It’s probably already been asked and answered, but why are The Apprentice Boys of Derry not called The Apprentice Boys of Londonderry??
*or why do they no sing “we’ll guard old londonderry’s walls”. Mibbees they don’t now as I saw footage of a walk in the summer, Tradeston Bridge I believe, where when it came tae that part of guarding old derry’s walls it was omitted and they all chanted ‘eeo eeo eeo or something like that.
ALMORE on 18TH APRIL 2019 10:05 PM
If you missed David Attenborough’s programme on climate change on BBC at 9pm catch it on the iplayer. Scary stuff.
*disnae know what he’s talking about, only the donald does.
TT: Aye, donald is a climate change hero. ?
Scaniel, absolutely fantastic news. Very well done, really pleased for you all. Aye, Pink Street wiz something else. HH
If we had, IMHO, a decent manager we would be playing the Arse in the Europa semis.
can ye hear old rangers sing
no oh
no oh
can ye hear old rangers singers
no oh
no oh
can ye hear old rangers
of course you can’t they’re deid