Five at the back is an orthodox defensive shape, it’s not a headcount of defenders, which is the crux of where we went wrong last night: we chose the wrong system.
Consider the space between (debutant) Gamboa and Lustig at the first goal. No one was sure who should have been picking up Messi (reveal: it was Bitton, who didn’t track the run). There was uncertainty – presumably because we tried a new defensive system out at the Camp Nou.
Another consequence of five at the back is that your fullbacks don’t get midfield cover. Instead, Sinclair and Roberts were asked to work 40 yards out. This plan came at the cost of protecting Gamboa and Tierney.
The overwhelming tactical memory I have of our win against Barca four years ago was Neil Lennon doubling up in the fullback area.
Then we had two central defenders with Wanyama (a defensive mid, which Bitton is not) in front. Our two full backs were partnered with a wide midfield player. Diagrammatically that was four at the back, but whenever Barcelona were in possession (80% of the time), seven players were protecting the Celtic penalty area.
The abiding defensive memory from that night it the thicket of legs confronting Messi every time he got the ball. There was no space for him to pass and move into. Last night, he had more space inside the box to run into that he’ll see all season. It was simply the wrong system.
During the game I was pretty annoyed at Bitton, who I blamed for the first three goals, but he’s a deep-lying playmaker, not a defensive mid, and looked clueless in the position. Although even I know you need to track Messi’s forward runs, and my 11-yr-old knew they were about to score the third the minute we conceded a free kick 23 yards out in front of goal. Reveal: barging players 23 yards out is a mistake that gets you spoken to when playing 2004s football.
We had numbers but not a coherent defensive strategy. The lessons from The Beating of Barca in 2012 were lost. Four years ago we twice played them with these back fours:
Lustig, Wilson, Ambrose, Izaguirre
Lustig, Wilson, Ambrose, Matthews (out of position)
None of Wilson, Ambrose, Izaguirre or Matthews (at left back) would get in this Celtic team. They were all pretty standard-grade defenders, but with protection on the wings and in front, it worked.
After we lost the third concentration levels dipped, tired legs after Saturday would have been energised legs if we were still in touch. I’d also tell Scott Brown not to worry too much about giving the ball away. We’re not good enough to plan to regularly retain possession at the Camp Nou.
We’re a ‘two pass then lob it into the box or win a foul’ team at this level. Accept this and concentrate on what’s deliverable – “We are Celtic, try running through this thicket of legs”.
Scotts Brown and Sinclair played well. Moussa will beat himself up about the penalty but it was inconsequential. Gamboa and de Vries looked lost, as all Camp Nou opposition debutants (there can’t be many) and exposed keepers do.
It may have been the biggest loss in Europe but it doesn’t even come close to being our worst performance. It’s not even our worst performance in Europe of the season, so we’ll get over it quickly.
You and I both remember seven goal victories being overturned a week later. This is football. The leap required to deliver a tighter defensive system is not the magnitude it may appear.
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Chairbhoy on 14th September 2016 9:48 pm
Many have speculated about why we have upped our spend and radically improved our Management and Coaching staff and are in the process of doing this with the Squad.
Some say it is because of the return of the “Old Firm”. Some say it’s because DD was offended…
I say it’s because European Football is going through a shake up… Now we all know that this is going to favour the big leagues but the fact is whatever way they slice it, to give European Football credibility they will have to involve big Clubs from minor Leagues.
Celtic plan to be one such Club and know we’ll have to be regularly playing UCL Football and performing at that level. We need to if we are going to be a “Player”.
So expect incremnental but marked improvement in our squad and performances going forward.
——————————————
I don’t think for one minute the planned shake up of Euro football by the big boys will include clubs like Celtic, they really have no interest in size of club, fan base, full stadiums etc – it will purely be based on population/viewing figures (ie advertisement money).
Celtic have to hope that this new UEFA chief kicks all this to the curb
Almore
Txt sent.
HH
GLENDALYSTONSILS on 14TH SEPTEMBER 2016 9:56 PM
Crazy days.
My brother and I were dodging bottles from Celtic supporters at the 7-1 game.
THE_HUDDLE on 14TH SEPTEMBER 2016 9:59 PM
I don’t think for one minute the planned shake up of Euro football by the big boys will include clubs like Celtic, they really have no interest in size of club, fan base, full stadiums etc – it will purely be based on population/viewing figures (ie advertisement money).
_____________________________________________
We are a worldwide box-office draw for viewing figures so on that basis, they would be interested.
FAC the Act
KTF
G98: To me?
Senna just starting on ITV4.
Brilliant movie.
Justshatered
I remember the game at Ibrox in 1979. Love Street was being renovated, and the Scottish Cup final was being played that Saturday. The game was played on Friday night and George McCluskey and Buzzbomb scored for us in a 2-0 win. I remember the match well as it was my first game at Ibrox.
We beat Dons 1-0 at Ibrox with a Brian O’Neil header in LC semi, before facing Raith Rovers at the same venue in the Final. Apart fae the 5-1 game, my worst memory of a game in doomdome.
THE_HUDDLE @ 9:59 PM,
Well you certainly have a point… interestingly the new UEFA chief has said the big Leagues are not going to have it there own way and this is his first priority.
But for me excluding Clubs like Ajax and Benfica is going to diminish the credibility of European Football… there will have to be a place for them… we have to ensure we are there too.
Hail Hail
Bottles and fighting amongst Celtic fans , not to mention the drink and urinating
Here was me thinking all the old yins on here blaming the green brigade for all our woes had supported Celtic when only angels attended ☘ :-)
MARGARET MCGILL on 14TH SEPTEMBER 2016 9:56 PM
Open question to CQN.
—————————————————————————-
I can`t remember seeing too many , if any , res. 12 contras on here .
All we lost against Barca was three points.
And , of course , prestige .
But we don`t have any of that , so all we lost was three points.
It also means we will now be underestimated in Europe .No bad thing.
I think we are better than we showed against Barca.
That , however , remains to be seen.
btw. I enjoyed watching the lemmings tonight.
:-)
Macjay
I attended almost every game from 62 to 80 – from the mid sixties to late 70’s the chance of some random bottle throwing was high. None of the had a chance of hitting the opposition fans or reaching the park – most of the victims were Celtic fans near the front of whatever terrace was involved – I witnessed this at the Celtic end of CO and Hampden and at other grounds – these eejits are still around but they are pensioners now who probably dissaprove of the odd banner!
BR was hired to deal with the OF not CL.
vfr800a8 on 14th September 2016 10:04 pm
I don’t think for one minute the planned shake up of Euro football by the big boys will include clubs like Celtic, they really have no interest in size of club, fan base, full stadiums etc – it will purely be based on population/viewing figures (ie advertisement money).
_____________________________________________
We are a worldwide box-office draw for viewing figures so on that basis, they would be interested.
————–
I’ll be surprised if you can provide stats to back that up??
Chairbhoy
Interesting response to the 2 questions I posed.
I however disagree, my opinion only. My reasoning for this is that if this were the case and the type of change was coming that was going to include us as Scotland’s Euro team I think we would have already seen investment beyond that which has been afforded to Brendan.. I believe we would have seen players brought in of a higher standard than DDV and Gamboa for those two positions and Brendan would have recieved finance for the other two positions he wished to be filled. The type of inclusion you think is coming has been DD’s dream ticket. The ticket he initially financed under MON albeit via borrowing.
Time will tell but at best we may end up part of a second tier Euro league setup IMO.
MWD
BLANTYRETIM IS PRAYING FOR THE KNOX FAMILY on 14TH SEPTEMBER 2016 10:09 PM
Bottles and fighting amongst Celtic fans , not to mention the drink and urinating
Here was me thinking all the old yins on here blaming the green brigade for all our woes had supported Celtic when only angels attended ☘ :-)
=============================================================
Aye.
But the support were united then.
In adversity.
:-)
Chairbhoy on 14th September 2016 10:09 pm
Well you certainly have a point… interestingly the new UEFA chief has said the big Leagues are not going to have it there own way and this is his first priority.
But for me excluding Clubs like Ajax and Benfica is going to diminish the credibility of European Football… there will have to be a place for them… we have to ensure we are there too.
——–
Surely our argument should be that we won’t accept any invite to this closed shop?? Is it ok if the “big clubs” decide that Celtic and Ajax are in but Benfica aren’t? What about the other clubs that are, lets be honest, more our level?
When we signed Gamboa from West Brom, I’m sure I saw plenty of us all having wee sly dig at Tony Pulis…. A man that plays a back 4 consisting of 4 centre halves in the Epl.
However could there be method in his madness? I certainly think so.
Given that Gamboa and Tierney were practically empty jerseys last night. A Tony Pulis approach is the way to go vs Barca.
Lustig as right centre back man marks Neymar. Erik as Centre back marks Messi. Jozo Simonovic as left centre back marks Suarez, and Kolo Toure is then deployed as a sweeper with his experience behind the 3…..
In essence a back 4….. 3 markers and a sweeper.
In front of this back 4….. You then have Brown. You don’t have Bitton. Simply Brown positioned in front of the back 4 to fill the gaps…. Communication between Brown and Erik is key, because when Messi drops deep, brown should close him down. When Messi advances Erik should attempt to shut him down.
I’d of had Forrest in as right mid ahead of Roberts. Only because he offers slightly more pace. And could carry the ball 30 / 40 yards forward by simply running the touch line.
Sinclair would be left mid.
Just in front of Brown in the central midfield positions, simply have the energy of Armstrong and McGregor.
Up top, Dembele.
It is in essence a 4-1-4-1
I’m not saying it is right or wrong. Just strikes me as worth a try.
We all know Lennon commented that he was happy to allow Barcelona in to wide crossing positions, and that the key was to bottle up the middle area of the team.
Therefore with that said, we didn’t require ineffective non existent full-backs.
BT
Wish we could turn time, to the good old days. Aye right! :)
Turn back.
macjay
The point I’m trying to make is that Father Lawwell only considers res 12 to deal with history loosing CL money. Spilt milk and all that. (Rescinding of titles and SFA justice dont be daft). However, OF DD investment has landed Celtic a CL £30m bonus but the PLC vision is still OF. Meaning as far as the PLC is concerned res12 and CL campaigns are useless pieces of shit on the heated driveway pension plan vision.
Can’t se why anyone would say KT was an empty jersey last night, he was our most productive player and best out ball, he carried it longer than anyone, IMO he was our MotM by a distance.
JINKYREDSTAR on 14TH SEPTEMBER 2016 10:11 PM
The worst case that I was part of was Ne`erday `58 .
The first Old Firm game after the 7-1 game. The huns won 1-0. Jimmy Miller.
As we came out of the Celtic end ,the huns had taken the high ground and were massed on the railway embankment to our right .
We were greeted with a hail ( it was always a hail ) of bottles.
Hun bottles.
It was just a way of life.
There have been 1 or 2 exceptions, I.e Copenhagen over in Portugal.
But Brugge champions of Belgium humped by 3 at home
Legia Champions of Poland humped by 6 at home
Dinamo Champions of Croatia humped by 3 in France.
The smaller nations (finance wise) are evidently struggling in this tournament.
In terms of managing expectations, I see nothing other than similar scorelines for us both home and away vs Man City and Barca. It’s just realistic economics
Almore
No to O Brien.
HH
MARGARET MCGILL on 14TH SEPTEMBER 2016 10:16 PM
macjay
=======================================
Yep.
I misunderstood.
I thought you were talking about supporters.
Hail Hail ghuys…
Not read any of the blog and this is probably off topic… I’m looking with help for tickets. Might be a long shot but if you don’t ask….
Looking for 1 for the BMGladbach home game.
3 for the Barcelona home game
And possibly 1 for Inverness away at the weekend… I’m supposed to be going up north to work on Friday but won’t have this confirmed until tomorrow… I’d say 75% that I will be.
Email larssonse7en@gmail.com
I don’t use that email often tho… And can only access from PC… I’ll check the blog too but hard to keep up due to work…
A few of our ghuys also have my number.
Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for any help.
Hail Hail
Macjay
I remember visiting Jimmy Millar’s pub in Leith in the early ’80’s, with my dad.
What a lovely man he was towards us Celtic fans.
Macjay
Yes a ‘hail’ of bottles is a good description.
Heading back to Greenock our bus occasionally lost a window or two as we worked through the streets around Brigton – legend has it that one bus stopped and managed to grab an attacker who was deposited on the old A8 near Langbank sans shoes :-)
I honestly thought Bredan would have brought his own defensive coach with him when he got the job.HH
MOONBEAMSWD @ 10:11 PM,
Well, I thought they were good questions and certainly points I was thinking about.
Your point is spot on regarding our playing personnel, the quality ghuys we have got in and are responding i.e. Sinclair, Dembele and Toure in one way or another we got for a song.
The fact that we didn’t get the holding/defensive mid because we didn’t off load Simonuvic beggars belief.
But we have to ask ourselves is this due to lack of ambition… (bringing BR in would suggest not) or is it we haven’t fully rid ourselves of the nickel & dime culture that saw a decade of downsizing!?
THE_HUDDLE @ 10:14 PM,
Well, it maybe unfortunate but despite the moral arguements if we have a place at that table we will certainly take it.
In fact the damage is already been done. The larger Clubs from whatever League that gets regular European Football, improves in a performance and financial sense. This distorts their domestic League and we are seeing, more and more the same old Clubs becoming Champions of their Country season after season.
Hail Hail
DELANEYS DUNKY on 14TH SEPTEMBER 2016 10:27 PM
Macjay
I remember visiting Jimmy Millar’s pub in Leith in the early ’80’s, with my dad.
What a lovely man he was towards us Celtic fans.
========================================================
Great to hear that.
He was a very good player . As was his sidekick Ralph Brand .
JINKYREDSTAR on 14TH SEPTEMBER 2016 10:27 PM
Macjay
Legend , eh ?
Love it.
:-)
FrannyB67
“Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers has urged his side to improve at the back, but rejected the idea that he needs an additional defensive coach.”
Celtic don’t have a defensive coach…
BR Gaffer
CD Assistant
JK First team coach..
Just read Paul’s leader on last night’s game, and would add a few points
1) Our manager was under-prepared for the game. That’s not a criticism of him, but merely stating that he is just in the door, and probably didn’t get much or any chance to see Barca in person prior. Also he still won’t know his own players inside out, how they cope with pressure, their tactical capability etc.
2) I think it’s really vital that when we play teams like Barca we give them something to worry about, and previously Lenny set out the team to win set pieces. In that year, from memory, we were the biggest team in the CL group, and we used that to our advantage.
Last night, Brendan obviously thought Roberts could create problems, and that plan failed.
If we want to avoid more defeats like last night it is vital we don’t devote all our efforts to curtailing opposition and trying to play them at their own game.
My advice to Brendan would be to look at teams who in recent times have over-achieved playing a British style game and start using set pieces, long throws , meaty challenges and non stop passion to give opponents something to worry about.
Add in the 12th man support from the fans, and we have a chance.
Macjay
You confirm what my late father told me about both those foes. :)
If only Dembele had scored that penalty !!!!
Thought Kieran was good last night,didn’t look out of place in amongst the game’s best.Definitely not an empty jersey.For me,an empty jersey is a performance lacking commitment,and that’s not a slight i’d aim at young Kieran from last night.Apart from commitment I thought he showed some quality on the ball,on the rare occasion we had it.He wasn’t world class but neither was he out his depth.
CCB
I get the impression that BR is a manager who learns something from every match we play.
Hopefully he learnt loads from last night, and makes changes in this CL group, in future ties.