Five at the back is an orthodox defensive shape, it’s not a headcount of defenders, which is the crux of where we went wrong last night: we chose the wrong system.
Consider the space between (debutant) Gamboa and Lustig at the first goal. No one was sure who should have been picking up Messi (reveal: it was Bitton, who didn’t track the run). There was uncertainty – presumably because we tried a new defensive system out at the Camp Nou.
Another consequence of five at the back is that your fullbacks don’t get midfield cover. Instead, Sinclair and Roberts were asked to work 40 yards out. This plan came at the cost of protecting Gamboa and Tierney.
The overwhelming tactical memory I have of our win against Barca four years ago was Neil Lennon doubling up in the fullback area.
Then we had two central defenders with Wanyama (a defensive mid, which Bitton is not) in front. Our two full backs were partnered with a wide midfield player. Diagrammatically that was four at the back, but whenever Barcelona were in possession (80% of the time), seven players were protecting the Celtic penalty area.
The abiding defensive memory from that night it the thicket of legs confronting Messi every time he got the ball. There was no space for him to pass and move into. Last night, he had more space inside the box to run into that he’ll see all season. It was simply the wrong system.
During the game I was pretty annoyed at Bitton, who I blamed for the first three goals, but he’s a deep-lying playmaker, not a defensive mid, and looked clueless in the position. Although even I know you need to track Messi’s forward runs, and my 11-yr-old knew they were about to score the third the minute we conceded a free kick 23 yards out in front of goal. Reveal: barging players 23 yards out is a mistake that gets you spoken to when playing 2004s football.
We had numbers but not a coherent defensive strategy. The lessons from The Beating of Barca in 2012 were lost. Four years ago we twice played them with these back fours:
Lustig, Wilson, Ambrose, Izaguirre
Lustig, Wilson, Ambrose, Matthews (out of position)
None of Wilson, Ambrose, Izaguirre or Matthews (at left back) would get in this Celtic team. They were all pretty standard-grade defenders, but with protection on the wings and in front, it worked.
After we lost the third concentration levels dipped, tired legs after Saturday would have been energised legs if we were still in touch. I’d also tell Scott Brown not to worry too much about giving the ball away. We’re not good enough to plan to regularly retain possession at the Camp Nou.
We’re a ‘two pass then lob it into the box or win a foul’ team at this level. Accept this and concentrate on what’s deliverable – “We are Celtic, try running through this thicket of legs”.
Scotts Brown and Sinclair played well. Moussa will beat himself up about the penalty but it was inconsequential. Gamboa and de Vries looked lost, as all Camp Nou opposition debutants (there can’t be many) and exposed keepers do.
It may have been the biggest loss in Europe but it doesn’t even come close to being our worst performance. It’s not even our worst performance in Europe of the season, so we’ll get over it quickly.
You and I both remember seven goal victories being overturned a week later. This is football. The leap required to deliver a tighter defensive system is not the magnitude it may appear.
669 Comments- Pages:
- «
- 1
- ...
- 11
- 12
- 13
- 14
- 15
- 16
- 17
- 18
- »
David, Be Brutally Honest… Should I stay or should I Go+.
Sorry for Vladimir Putin you on the Sp()t.
It is just a question if Sleep is required. ;))
twists n turns
Don’t mention ranks to them…they might try to give you a funny handshake…
Davidopoulos on 15th September 2016 9:05 am
VFR is today’s guest in Dictionary Corner with Susie Dent…
;)
Countdown CSC
_________________________________________
Only because CURMUDGEON1 FOR NEIL LENNON started it in an earlier post when he became dissatisfied with my interpretation of his approach.
What is good for the goose isn’t, apparently, good for the gander.
Never mind, at least it supplied some amusement for you this morning. And brought us around to considering Rachel Riley!
FAC the Act
KTF
DAVIDOPOULOS on 15TH SEPTEMBER 2016 9:12 AM
petec
This is true. No complaints about her replacement though – very clever lady…
——————————————-
That’s the very first thing I noticed about her too. Mrs. Merton style-ee joke on the cards here…ahem!
Carol is a good Tim BTW.
petec
Sleep is good. I was reading an article recently about how sleep is a really key part of learning anything, be it languages or something else. Apparently something happens in the brain when we sleep after we learn something that helps allow us to store it and remember it!
vfr800a8
Don’t stop! In fact, I’m putting you in charge of bringing CQN a “Word of the Day”.
:)
NatKnow
Mrs. Merton style-ee joke on the cards here…ahem!
———————————————————————
Which cards? Number or Letters?
Btw, the French version of Countdown is called Numbers and Letters (Des chiffres et des lettres) which is a rubbish name. My French teacher at school Mr Douglas used to make us play it in French…that and stop the bus…
Currently reading
‘Ghost in the wires’ by Kevin Mitnick.
FBI’s most sought after hacker at one time.
Always a step ahead of the game.
Wonder if he still does contract work? I’d love him to get me a history of the communications between the SFA and TRFC.
TNT
Share your frustration about talksport. Difficult to comprehend why they chose jim red white and blue, guess it must be the Murdoch connection.
I haven’t listened to his show and tune into talksport much less often than I used to, though Hawksbee and Jacobs are always worth listening to.
Yours in disbelief
P.S. Fair play to Colin Murray for standing by his principals.
Davidopoulos on 15th September 2016 9:28 am
petec
Sleep is good. I was reading an article recently about how sleep is a really key part of learning anything, be it languages or something else. Apparently something happens in the brain when we sleep after we learn something that helps allow us to store it and remember it!
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
It is very hard for me to go to the CQN corner because, Just Because. Well because of CQN.
I’m so different it is REALLY scarey.
Stringer
Yeah I like H&J though I don’t get to hear them as much as I need to try and fit a couple hours work into my day around pop master, Jeremy Vine, and my horse research :-)
DAVIDOPOULOS on 15TH SEPTEMBER 2016 9:32 AM
NatKnow
Mrs. Merton style-ee joke on the cards here…ahem!
———————————————————————
Which cards? Number or Letters?
Btw, the French version of Countdown is called Numbers and Letters (Des chiffres et des lettres) which is a rubbish name. My French teacher at school Mr Douglas used to make us play it in French…that and stop the bus…
——————————————————————–
“Numbers and Letters” – doesn’t really capture the excitement of the countdown clock does it? Mind you, they probably say the same about “Countdown”.
Wee Susie Dent went to a Tim school too.
Kieran done a fresh air swipe at the Ball.
He was Giving EVERYTHING for Celtic.
Patience is a virtue.
I seen Kieran being tenacious and ready to tackle strongly.
Brendan you got the license to Bring in the Real Celts.
KIERAN TIERNEY.
NATKNOW: Curator of the Famous Female Tim List (FFTL)
CQN Word of the Day should include some of these :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/2xL1gH6FcyCtYH2NM6zYhTK/lost-for-words-14-expressions-that-have-vanished
DAVIDOPOULOS on 15TH SEPTEMBER 2016 9:52 AM
NATKNOW: Curator of the Famous Female Tim List (FFTL)
——————————————————————————————-
Think I’ve found my new project..! :-)))
NATKNOW
Some cracking words in there.
Also, I’m sure you’ll have plenty of volunteers on CQN to help with your project…
Morning Celts
Messi, Neymar, Suarez…Iniesta…..Its no fair:)
Couldnt watch after 2nd….torture.
We just cannot operate at that level, however, give Brendan a year and lets see where we are then.
We need better players….start in January.
Ok it was Barca, but we have to do better.
Messi…..Nobody in the world can stop that bhoy if he feels like playing….He does what he likes.
HH
THE GREEN MAN SAYS SACK THE BOARD on 15TH SEPTEMBER 2016 10:09 AM
Messi…..Nobody in the world can stop that bhoy if he feels like playing….He does what he likes.
—————————————————-
Sumbdy could mark him though, eh..? :-)))
Horses
Last race Listowel I have been told that Stolen Diamond is fancied to win.
9/2 in places so I might back each way to be on the safe side
in the 5.15 I like Love Rory at a big price ..just a hunch
This horse was owned by the man who owned the Gravediggers pub in Dublin and he gave e the heads up to back it at big prices for a couple of its wins.The poor man died earlier this year and the horse is now owned by J P McManus the famous Irish Patriot and Tax exile Ahem !!!.
Anyway just a small each way at 25/1 just in case its “trying” today
twists n turns on 15th September 2016 9:19 am
I’m a creature of habit. Alarm set 4-10am Mon through Thursday. Up at 6am latest Fri-sat-sun
6 mile Run the same 4 days every week.
Pop master with Ken Bruce at 10-27am Mon to Friday.
Anyhow. Lunchtime listening to talksport and switching to Jeremy Vine debates .
That’s now wrecked. Talksport new presenter? Jim ( Walter, why are you so good Whyte)
Can’t fekkin stand him. His voice drives me to distraction, and even though it’s radio, I can picture that stupid grin on his face.
What’s next? Ken Bruce getting replaced by Nicky Campbell?
These are the real questions we should be asking. Not ” will the board give Brendan £20m”?
Not ” are TRFC the same club”?
Who decided on Jim Whyte? I want to know the names of these people “
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
You are indeed an Enhanced Jobo. My DAD wishes I had the Get up and Go that Ma wee Bro Has.
The nugget is running the London Marathon and no doubt he will want to go under 3 hours again.
The whole crew are going so far. He is shit @ fitba though. :)
NATKNOW
Yeah, that would help…..But Messi would still do what he wants to.
He is too good….and he has done that to far better teams than us.
HH
100% agree with paul67 regarding what went wrong. Bitton is never a defensive midfielder
Last one we had was big vic, 12.5m brought in for his replacement
Sadly Lawell and park had absolutely no intention of intention of replacing vic with another defensive midfield player project moneyball started then
The next season on Friday feb the 8th Peter Lawell announced to press that we had never been better financially
Next day Aberdeen ran through our midfield , who had no defensive midfielder to beat us 2 1 at celtic park in Scottish cup
So indeed paul. Your mate Peter L has caused so much damage to our team leading to no central midfielder the other night
Those days are gone now and we will build
Why is the Person who caused so much damage still there ?? Sack him now
Managers —
” Our players deserve the stadium completely full. .We are here to create something big . All we can do when we see empty seats is play so well that people say wow,I want to watch that ”
Pep Guardiola 14 9 16 .
” Siviglia offered a masterclass in defending , we offered a masterclass in nerves and spurning chances .The Champions League really gets to some players .
Max Allegri 14 9 16
THE GREEN MAN SAYS SACK THE BOARD on 15TH SEPTEMBER 2016 10:14 AM
NATKNOW
Yeah, that would help…..But Messi would still do what he wants to.
He is too good….and he has done that to far better teams than us.
————————————————————
Agree mate – he’s one of the very best. We kinda made his job easy though. As another poster pointed out (sorry – can’t remember who!) there were 4 Celtic players around him for the 2nd goal and none of them picked him up in the box. We could at least make it difficult to get a shot away. Not saying we would have won the game, but some basic skills seemed to desert us..
Ahh, a Roy Keane observation. Perfect opportunity to read something else….
Natknow
I think the magnitude of the task was just too much for some of our players, not much you can do against a team like Barca…..But, we can learn from your mistakes, and rectify our attitude.
If we persist with current squad, without decent additions….we will get humped at that level.
There needs to be a change of thinking at CP, if we genuinely want to be at the top table, we have to be prepared at least.
Do it half-hearted, you will get found out.
Its obvious we need better players….we should build properly.
HH
QF on 15th September 2016 12:19 am
we have achieved better results with poorer players than in the other night.
we must scream that 7-0 is never acceptable for our club. This is Celtic we are talking about!!
———
Best post since the game.
Fed up with all this “oh they’ve got better players, we should expect to lose 7-0”.
Woeful “performance”. Barcelona will have a harder game today training against dummies.
Wrong system? Total sideshow.
NatKnow on 15th September 2016 10:10 am
THE GREEN MAN SAYS SACK THE BOARD on 15TH SEPTEMBER 2016 10:09 AM
Messi…..Nobody in the world can stop that bhoy if he feels like playing….He does what he likes.
—————————————————-
Sumbdy could mark him though, eh..? :-)))
___________________________________________________
Good luck wi’ that wan!
FAC the Act
KTF
Maybe Pep should, with All the Authority that he has, Speak out about the Ajax and Celtic, even the Porto.
When Celtic exit the Tournie, I Won’t be watching any more games. If the Final looks like an open game I might watch it.
A pathetic competition it is turning into.
I think its obvious that we dont have the players to compete at that level.
If the suits are not willing to strengthen properly, you leave the manager with a huge task,….they expect miracles, but its not happening.
I want to see a few quality signings in Jan….We should be building for next year, that if there is any real intention of improvement?
Its time the PLC stepped up.
HH
FTSFA
FTUEFA
There is Hope, howevaaaah.
God Bless that wee Baby Hope.
2 Wonderful Parents.
The Celts from the North of Ireland are just the Finest Human Beings.
NatKnow How do you man mark this ?
The Green Man says SACK THE Board on 15th September 2016 10:37 am
I concur!
FAC the Act
KTF
The way Barca play the game reminds me of 5 a sides.
It’s as if the field is just a platform for a moveable 5 a side court.
It’s a lot tighter where you play but the viritual “wall pass”, just as in 5s, is an extra man.
It’s sucess depends on maneuverability but even more on technique. A guy who has immediate control of the ball on receiving, whether he keeps it or passes first time, will always have that extra second of time to get next touch right. The ability to run with the ball under close control whilst looking around is another big plus.
Then there is game intelligence so that when you have drawn sufficient opponents into your 5s court, there is a player of vision ready to hit a long pass out of it (usually to a wide man on other side) and a wide man with game intelligence to be there to accept it.
Barca are blessed with a number of players with these qualities. We aren’t because they come at a huge price.
Last time I saw Barca being horsed was by Bayern (I think) where the Germans had enough players of the same quality and just that bit more muscle to get in the 5 court and win the ball.
What is pretty evident from last night is the gap between top 2 in a group and the others.
If it were Catch 22, Yossarian would just take away the man in the bed wrapped in bandages and go straight to the last 16 stage.
VFR800A8 on 15TH SEPTEMBER 2016 10:41 AM
NatKnow How do you man mark this ?
———————————————————-
None of our players made any attempt to track him.
How would you suggest we defend against him – or should we simply not bother?
I agree he’s a great player, but we have to try!! :-))
Roy Keane well said
I was called a hun the other For calling
Brendan a disgrace
He was the system was and it was
Unacceptable
I don’t buy this pish that it was Barcelona
And it was 7-0 is ridiculous
He is the highest paid manager in Celtics history
However I’m enjoying the football under his management
He needs some big results in Europe
As we as Celtic supporters do