Five at the back is an orthodox defensive shape, it’s not a headcount of defenders, which is the crux of where we went wrong last night: we chose the wrong system.
Consider the space between (debutant) Gamboa and Lustig at the first goal. No one was sure who should have been picking up Messi (reveal: it was Bitton, who didn’t track the run). There was uncertainty – presumably because we tried a new defensive system out at the Camp Nou.
Another consequence of five at the back is that your fullbacks don’t get midfield cover. Instead, Sinclair and Roberts were asked to work 40 yards out. This plan came at the cost of protecting Gamboa and Tierney.
The overwhelming tactical memory I have of our win against Barca four years ago was Neil Lennon doubling up in the fullback area.
Then we had two central defenders with Wanyama (a defensive mid, which Bitton is not) in front. Our two full backs were partnered with a wide midfield player. Diagrammatically that was four at the back, but whenever Barcelona were in possession (80% of the time), seven players were protecting the Celtic penalty area.
The abiding defensive memory from that night it the thicket of legs confronting Messi every time he got the ball. There was no space for him to pass and move into. Last night, he had more space inside the box to run into that he’ll see all season. It was simply the wrong system.
During the game I was pretty annoyed at Bitton, who I blamed for the first three goals, but he’s a deep-lying playmaker, not a defensive mid, and looked clueless in the position. Although even I know you need to track Messi’s forward runs, and my 11-yr-old knew they were about to score the third the minute we conceded a free kick 23 yards out in front of goal. Reveal: barging players 23 yards out is a mistake that gets you spoken to when playing 2004s football.
We had numbers but not a coherent defensive strategy. The lessons from The Beating of Barca in 2012 were lost. Four years ago we twice played them with these back fours:
Lustig, Wilson, Ambrose, Izaguirre
Lustig, Wilson, Ambrose, Matthews (out of position)
None of Wilson, Ambrose, Izaguirre or Matthews (at left back) would get in this Celtic team. They were all pretty standard-grade defenders, but with protection on the wings and in front, it worked.
After we lost the third concentration levels dipped, tired legs after Saturday would have been energised legs if we were still in touch. I’d also tell Scott Brown not to worry too much about giving the ball away. We’re not good enough to plan to regularly retain possession at the Camp Nou.
We’re a ‘two pass then lob it into the box or win a foul’ team at this level. Accept this and concentrate on what’s deliverable – “We are Celtic, try running through this thicket of legs”.
Scotts Brown and Sinclair played well. Moussa will beat himself up about the penalty but it was inconsequential. Gamboa and de Vries looked lost, as all Camp Nou opposition debutants (there can’t be many) and exposed keepers do.
It may have been the biggest loss in Europe but it doesn’t even come close to being our worst performance. It’s not even our worst performance in Europe of the season, so we’ll get over it quickly.
You and I both remember seven goal victories being overturned a week later. This is football. The leap required to deliver a tighter defensive system is not the magnitude it may appear.
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I dont envy Brendan trying to instill some belief in the players after that mauling.
I think we were thrown right in at the deep end…Barca, Manc City, BMG, that is a very hard draw.
Smells a bit funny to me…however, we have Manc City next.
I think UEFA know that when the big teams come to CP, that it is usually a spectacular atmosphere….hence the draw.
You cannot expect to do well in the CL, if you dont improve the team….that is just a PL fantasy, he thinks you can do it on a shoestring budget…you cant.
Roy Keane was right imo…..too much bs from the PLC….They need to step up….or step aside.
Lets get some people on the PLC, with a bit of ambition.
HH
5, 6Celtic7 at least EVERY game.
Yes
C’mon Celtic.
Small steps.
Barca ‘
When Inter beat Barca in the 2010 CL semi final ,Mourinho compared playing Barca with being a teenager who has just spotted the most beautiful girl in the world at a disco — if you think she’s too beautiful for the likes of you and you’ve got no chance , then guess what —you’ve got no chance .
I don’t think it was so much the system that let us down the other night – it was more a case of players not doing their jobs. Almost every goal could be attributed to poor defending. Messi’s first – Brown moves out to the ball and nobody picks up the world’s most dangerous forward. That pattern of not going with runners continued all night. Iniesta’s “wonder goal”? He starts off 25 yards out with Sinclair, jogs past him into the box and is unmarked for the cross coming over. Suarez’ volley? He stands between O’Connell and Touré and makes a simple run to lose them. Suarez’ other goal? Gamboa watches the ball and Messi gets in behind to square the ball. Barça didn’t score any wonder goals – they just passed the ball till Celtic switched off. And don’t get me started on Bitton’s lack of effort.
I like Roy Keane and tend to agree with a lot of his comments
However I am surprised that he didn’t say…….
If only Dembele had scored that penalty !!!!
Not one to repeat myself CSC
The SPL is going to Suffer because Celtic got Schooled.
Get this SFA to feck.
It is such a Millstone round Scottish Fitbas neck.
Get yer Brechin and all those others, Masons? off the Gravy Train?
small steps, as ever.
mustardseed.csc
UEFA are using Celtic and Celtic Park….to enhance the ‘product’
But we suffer.
I dont want to see Celtic thrashed like that…by anybody.
Celtic Park is ‘THE’ CL venue….but we derive no advantage from that, we are subjected to the hardest draw, again……how many times have we drawn Barca now? , give us a break ffs
We cannot be the CL cannon fodder, no way.
HH
£30m over six games ‘reportedly’ =
£5m per game (each goal cost/made, £714k)…
Or, £55,555 per minute…
Or, £926 per second
Not a bad return from Brendan Rodgers, appointed 20th of May 2016.
That doesn’t include putting the MSM and Sevco back in their box!
At Liverpool Brendan had the best goal scoring per game ratio since Bill Shankly and the worst goals against ratio since Shankly.
http://www.thisisanfield.com/2015/01/stat-brendan-rodgers-worst-goals-record-modern-day-liverpool-manager/
Easy to see where the development needs to be but plenty of goals en-route.
Duty Calls.
Brendan Rodgers is a disgrace? Get a grip, but most importantly, get a brain.
Green Man
I disagree, I don’t think Brendan will have any problem picking the players up, I reckon they will be champing at the bit to get at ICT on Sunday. Our form after European matches over the last couple of seasons under Ronny was very good, and I believe BR has improved the mentality and mental toughness in this squad of players, so I am actually expecting a bit of a backlash on Sunday. Plus we have had 4 days recovery time after a CL match which is a luxury compared to EL matches on a Thursday then League match on a Sunday.
We play ICT, Alloa and Kilmarnock in our next 3 games. An ideal way to bounce back.
I reckon I could have been manager of Barca on Tuesday and they’d still have won handsomely.
Team talk:
“Here’s the team. Just go out and play. See yez at half time. I’m away to pit ma coopin oan”
There’s that much of a quality difference, big Jock himself wouldn’t have made much difference.
4-5-1, 4-4-2, 5-4-1??
Rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic!!
I see Roy Keane is offering his wisdom on the other night.
Lets get a few things clear. Roy Keane is another one of these guys who have lived their whole lives in the bubble of English football and is applying the same circumstances to Celtic’s.
It’s ignorant and stupid.
When Roy was a player he played for a team who never needed to qualify for the CL. They always got direct entry simply because of who they were and where they played their domestic football. Even back then it was rigged in their favour but to a lesser degree than these days.
Celtic need to qualify duing Pre-season when teams in England are playing glamour friendlies where mental scorelines often come around, they give their youth team players run outs and they make yet more money on top of the obscene cash they get from TV. Even the less prestigious teams are doing it now – teams with few fans outside the town or region they play in but they can blow Celtic away financially and yes even teams like Leicester. No following worldwide but they have a huge financial advantage over Celtic and can spend more on transfers and on wages simply because they play where they play. Then with no coefficient, they get a mickey mouse group because they are given top seed billing with no justification other than they come from England.
As I said yesterday, Dortmund were in Pot 4 the season we beat Barcelona 2-1 because they had not been involved for years following their financial troubles. They were German champions. Where is the consistency?
While Celtic have to struggle to get through during pre-season, teams from the ”big leagues” sit pretty knowing full well they are straight into the tournament, they’re getting guaranteed cash for participation without qualification, they can say to any player they like we are in the CL come play for us and money is no object in either transfer fees or wages because of this arrangement.
The CL penalizes teams from nations outside the big 4/5. It is designed to reward and enhance position with further wealth to widen the gap and remove genuine competition in favour of a closed shop. They are brazen, obvious and unapologetic about it.
He complains about Celtic not winning away from home in the qualifiers but lets get a few things clear – with the exception of Gibraltar, getting a draw in Astana was a good result given that team can spend quite a lot on their team, they were mid-season and play in a country near China. Israel was a horrible performance but we got through. No one remembers anything else once you do. With a new manager and a squad in need of a massive overhaul getting into this season’s groups was a massive achievement given the shambles Ronny Deila had left and the European performances his side put in.
The qualifiers are fraught with danger and difficulty regardless. It’s easy to judge when you’re sitting with direct entry.
Roy Keane seems to not understand any of this.
Also Roy, did you not jump around celebrating Ireland getting to Euro 2016 as if you had won it with no real chance of winning the thing?
I share his disappointment at the scoreline. I don’t like what happened but until financial fair play actually means something and wealth is properly redistributed AND the CL becomes champions only again, this is going to continue.
It is not defeatist so say these things, it is realism because the situation is not going to change in the short term.
We either affect change in policy and redistribute the wealth or the game across the continent becomes about those teams who are favoured and them alone if it is not already the case.
In Slovakia, barely anyone supports teams in the domestic league other than in passing. I have friends who are Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U, Liverpool, Barcelona fans etc etc. They have the gall to tell me you have a chance to qualify every year for the CL so what are you complaining about?
The fact that they think this is an acceptable statement irks me but it shows where the continent is heading. Football fans across the continent are largely only interested in gloryhunting. They are not from these towns or countries. Few if any have ever been to these places or seen their team in the flesh or grown up from childhood going along to the games with their fathers (or mothers for that matter). It’s latching on to success. Nothing more and thanks to TV brainwashing everyone it will only get worse.
It’s not as if there are tons of Slovaks playing in English teams or Spanish teams so there goes that excuse. They had Skrtel at Liverpool and after that the others play in Russia, Germany or Turkey.
I go off my head with them saying if you actually supported your local teams they might do better but they say our league is rubbish so we don’t want to.
This is where Celtic and teams like us may be headed. It’s depressing.
I accept that football culture in Scotland and Western Europe is a little different but this is where the game is going.
Roy Keane doesn’t seem to realize what is going on. It’s a bubble informed by EPL mentality without knowledge or acknowledgement of reality.
Change the competition and tilt the table back in the direction of the unfancied or ignored or the game will be in big trouble.
What is the Stars,
While you are on…..
Ayr,
LEXINGTON ABBEY ????
I have no idea about Horses. The Irish Bhoys are the ones that know so much.
Anyway No worries if you dinnae have a scoop, as Ever, any information is appreciated. Running Friday apparently.
If it is a favourite I’m not into them.
SNAKE PLISSKEN
Excellent post. A great counter argument to Keane’s myopic, EPL-focused opinion.
If you want to dine at the top table with the superstars, put a suit on at least….try to look presentable ffs, dont turn up with your arse hanging out of a pair of patched denims.
Now….PL might be able to bs for Scoddland, but in the CL environment, they must be wondering why he didnt strengthen the team properly,…When he had the opportunity.
You know you have Barca, Manc City, and BMG on the horizon…..but you hum and haw as per fecking usual.
Step up….or step aside.
HH
Davidopoulos,
Get on over 2.5 goals first half.
Go BOLD go for over 3.5 first half.
The pitch is Dire up there… A leveller for sure.
Celtic are so on the way UP it is Spooky.
GOALS.CSC
THE GREEN MAN SAYS SACK THE BOARD
How many times are you going to say that today so I now when to log back on???
PETEC
Not a betting man myself, but wouldn’t be surprised if that was a winning bet.
Petec
Lexington Abbey is entered in both the Ayr Silver Cup and the Ayr Gold Cup ( both on Saturday)
However I don’t think he will get to run in either
Goals Goals Goals
SNAKE PLISSKEN
Excellent post mate…
Good to see you back..
HH
starry plough
3:)
HH
Fitba pundit on Sicilian radio doing a CL results round up .
Man City singled out for attention — pundit opining that City will go far if Guardiola cures them of ” Belgiumitis “.
What is ” Belgiumitis “? –being a really good player but having your head so far up your own ass re how good you are that you don’t feel the need to show others how good you are.
While we go round the buoy (Bhoy?) again about Tuesday, spare a thought for Zybzek who saw both his teams taken apart this week with Legia losing by six goals at home to Dortmund last night.
CL is a harsh place for clubs on Celtic’s and Legia’s level, but the handsome rewards for taking a doing are what enable these clubs to improve. A painful, slow-burner…but there is profit to be had in the financial and footballing senses.
Starry Plough
I thought my ‘top table’ rant/analogy was a guid yin:)
HH
Looks like someone has hacked Snake account
Love and welcome back amigo
NatKnow on 15th September 2016 10:58 am
VFR800A8 on 15TH SEPTEMBER 2016 10:41 AM
NatKnow How do you man mark this ?
———————————————————-
None of our players made any attempt to track him.
How would you suggest we defend against him – or should we simply not bother?
I agree he’s a great player, but we have to try!! :-))
_______________________________________
I don’t disagree with any of that; the difficulty is our football intelligence (read Auldheid on 15th September 2016 10:57 am – he summed it up very well).
It will take a wee bit of time and some new players to coach that type of play and marking system into our team.
As for how to properly defend against MSN, if I really knew the best way, I’d be getting the £45K per week instead of Brendan. :>)
FAC the Act
KTF
Chavez on 15th September 2016 11:07 am
Well, Iniestas was a spectacular goal, because of the pinpoint cross and his superb technique, notwithstanding our own failings.
The problem is if you are playing Inverness and that ball falls to Aaron Doran it ends up outside the ground and you forget it ever happened. Well, the fans do – but that is why analysis of Tuesday night is important even though it was Barca and analysis of games we cruise is important because bad habits and lapses must be cut out.
Agree that some players aren’t up to it and Bitton is most definitely one of them.
HH
What is the Stars,
Thanks for that info m8ty.
FFs bhoys…stop moaning, wasnt my fault we got dismantled….see PL about that:)
Lighten up….its not that bad, only Manc City next:)
Cheer Up:)
HH
THE GREEN MAN SAYS SACK THE BOARD on 15TH SEPTEMBER 2016 11:24 AM
So we’re due £30M, which we haven’t actually got yet but let’s assume somebody lets us borrow it.
Where do you distribute that in order to craft a team that’ll give Barca a game. For the sake of the discussion, lets assume that 1st year wages are also in that amount – ie a £10M player is likely to be on about £40k/week, so really he’s a £12M player.
Off you go.
twists n turns on 15th September 2016 11:19 am
I’m still laughing out loud at that one!
FAC the ACT
KTF
Traditionalist88 – but the Iniesta goal was easily preventable. Either Sinclair goes with him and he can’t get a shot in, or one of the 5 or 6 Celtic players in the box has the peripheral vision to spot the danger and move out to mark him. It was schoolboy stuff tbh. Of course Barça are a great side but doing the defensive basics would have meant there was no rout on Tuesday.
VFR800A8 on 15TH SEPTEMBER 2016 11:35 AM
NatKnow on 15th September 2016 10:58 am
VFR800A8 on 15TH SEPTEMBER 2016 10:41 AM
NatKnow How do you man mark this ?
———————————————————-
None of our players made any attempt to track him.
How would you suggest we defend against him – or should we simply not bother?
I agree he’s a great player, but we have to try!! :-))
_______________________________________
I don’t disagree with any of that; the difficulty is our football intelligence (read Auldheid on 15th September 2016 10:57 am – he summed it up very well).
It will take a wee bit of time and some new players to coach that type of play and marking system into our team.
As for how to properly defend against MSN, if I really knew the best way, I’d be getting the £45K per week instead of Brendan. :>)
FAC the Act
KTF
———————————————————-
Well it’s an “interesting” problem to have for sure!
I see a few comments that Brendan is unlikely to change the way the team plays. If that is the case then we can expect more humpings. One of the difficulties as we know is that week-in week-out we face teams that we can (or should!) beat easily. We don’t get much ractice at playing that quality of opposition that Barca etc. provide. In addition to football intelligence, they were sharper and fitter. There’s a few factors – let’s face it.
BTW – I don’t think you should take a pay-cut just to get into football management… ;-))))
Champions League games are big business for bars / cafes in Sicily .Bangladeshis turn out to watch /support English teams( tops etc) , Maghrebis turn out to watch/ support Barca / Real ,(tops etc ) people from the Balkans/ Ukraine / Moldova / etc turn out to watch German teams(tops etc ).. Sicilians stay at home and watch Rube. Bar on the outskirts of Sciacca suffered some football related violence on Tuesday night — Legia supporting Poles v Borussia supporting Albanians .Funny old world !.
SNAKE PLISSKEN on 15TH SEPTEMBER 2016 11:20 AM
Roy Keane is never going to be someone to accept that Celtic are ‘too wee, too stupid, too poor’ to play on the European stage.
He achieved what he did in the game more through ruthless determination and total dedication than any latent talent and he wants Celtic teams to so the same.
What he doesn’t seem to appreciate though is just how bad things have been allowed to get after years of downsizing.
Even after a couple of days….it’s still a sore one to take.
We’re the biggest dog in our own backyard…..unfortunately there are bigger dogs and bigger yards out there…..
Playing in the SPHell is a major contributing factor in what went wrong…..here we are virtually always playing off the front foot….and this ill equips our mindset when it come to a defensive set-up. IMO.
In saying that…..after our performance away at Be’er Shiva…..I would have thought that there would have been additional training
drills,involving the whole squad, focused on nothing but defending…..
FTSFA
H.H.
What happened to the Champions League money??!!!!!
B. Monchengladbach have the right idea – build a beer-garden!
http://stadiumdb.com/news/2016/04/monchengladbach_borussia_following_on_their_expansion_plans
Snake
A good post and interesting to read what you say about Slovakia and particularly how the locals pay little more than lip sevice to supporting local teams. In my experience that happens in Western Europe -:most obviously in Ireland but here too to a far greater extent than 20 years ago. I lived in Edinburgh throughout the 90s and noticed how youngstrs who were not diehard Jambos or Hibbies were already gravitating towards EPL teams ( and Barca, Milan and Juventus). Now in Glasgow whilst Celtic and ‘Rangers’ still do have a deep bedrock of support a lot are more interested in the English teams – in my work last Friday the people who were most obviously interested in the Glasgow Derby were in their 40s and 50s.
Neil Lennon is reputed to have said to his team before our famous win over Barcelona 4 years ago that our there there were 60000 dreaming of playing for Celtic not our celebrated guests. Part of the problem is that of the hundreds of thousands watching and wanting us to win the majority of them would still have dreamt of playing for Barcelona. We operate in a different world to the one I grew up in. Perhaps, nowadays Jinky,Tam Gemmell and Bobby Murdoch would have been playing for Barca not us. But we cannot just give up
Tuesday was a bad result and I fear the effect it will have on the morale of the players. But as a supporter it was nowhere near our biggest disappointment – I was more gutted when , in Australia, I watched us at 5 in the morning losing to Man U by the odd goal in 5 ten years to the day earlier. I know we are fightinf a difficult battle and the odds are stacked againsr us. But I have faith that we shall keep trying to fight that battle. I would give up being interested if I thought we’d settled for being merely big fishes in a puddle
Jim