I remember the days (as a kid) when I’d get excited about Scotland-England games. At the time the countries were neck-and-neck in the number of wins each had over the other, we knew we’d punched well above our weight for a century. Since then, the inevitable verdict of demographics has taken its toll.
Now we know we’re a small nation, inconsequential to the football world, and we’ve even starved of developmental resources compared to the riches that ploughs into the English FA from Premier League TV deals each season.
The historical rivalry remains but I don’t feel it anymore and surely English fans care even less. They will have to dig deep to muster anything more than an interest in the three points available tonight, having long since moved onto Argentina and Germany for their rivalry. And Iceland, of course (forgive me).
Great sporting rivalries can endure for generations but that doesn’t mean they’ll last forever. Circumstances can change causing both sides to lose interest and find others to do battle with. None of our 20th century rivalries will survive. If we could bloody the nose of Barcelona for a third time in the 21st century later this month, our hit rate would place the Catalans in the crosshairs. Bring it on.
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Turkeybhoy- wind your neck in , you asked about the story with Kenny Miller is , read my reply to you again.
I recall when we signed Kenny and farmed him out tae Cumbernauld, I had family through there and asked one of them what he thought of our new wee player, his response was “he won’t make it Tontine, he’s too slow”, and IMHO that’s the weakness which stopped him becoming a world class player, only Danny of the QSG fell intae that legendary group, however, he more than made up for his lack of pace with his work ethic and rather large chorus and verse.
He also said that the best player at the “new” town was Johnny Hamilton who was on Hibs books at the time and whose career would go downhill when he moved tae the dark side, a bullet that Kenny dodged.
Kenny was a late developer from the QSG and I thought he wisnae going tae make it, we had already seen the likes of big George, Skip tae ma Lou, Davie Hay and Vic Davidson who were all within Kenny’s age group break through and although a 17 year old Kenny did make his debut in a League Cup game at Douglas Park apart from replacing Chopper in a LC semi and replay a year later that seemed to be it.
However, Jock knew what he was doing and 2 years on, after scoring a remarkable amount of goals for the reserves, he came in for the Frank Beattie testimonial at Rugby Park scoring 6 goals in the 7-2 victory, by now the aspiring the right half had been turned intae a centre, similar tae Bobby Murdoch going from inside right tae right half, incidentally it was oul Jimmy that first tried that, the Big Mhan just fine tuned it.
The rest as we know is history with a young Kenny scoring 6 goals in the opening 2 games of the Dryborough Cup before coolly tying his boot laces and then dispatching the penalty intae the Celtic end of the bigot dome. He would score 2 more at the same venue within the following 4 weeks.
I walked across Balloch Bridge a few weeks later on a sunny October Saturday afternoon tae be met by my da, “good game” he said,” aye da, I just saw the White Pele the day”, Kenny had bagged a hatrick against a more than competent team from the City of Discovery. The huge grin on his face, which would light up many a dreich night, and the warm congratulations from his team mates told us we had just found a new hero.
By the end of that season he had scored 23 goals, and found himself playing more as an inside forward after the harry wragg’s debacle, but still managed tae win both League and Cup winners badges although personally I thought he was our poorest player in the 6-1 annihilation of Hibs in the final, he seemed a bit burnt out.
I was privileged for the next 3 seasons to witness a great Celt and player and I treasure the memory of both him and Dixie clinching the Title for us at Easter Road on a day a jam packed hun stadium were sure we would slip up and give them the championship against the lowly honest men, little did we know that the latter would get their revenge by turning bader’s money down, they might have had tae change their nickname if they had taken it
Even in the Wembley thrashing the national side suffered in my final year at hame he along with Danny and “he used tae be a hun but he’s alright now” were the only Scottish players of note that sunny afternoon.. 2 players who supported the deid team and 1 that played for them, we were so fortunate tae see them grace the Hoops.
The night before the Andy Lynch penalty game and I’m at a fitba team farewell party for a punter that was going hame, him, I and one other were the only Tims there. The subject got round tae “who was the best player you ever saw in the flesh”.
There were a few mentions of Pele, Puskas etc and one vote for the failed Sunderland player, even the hun Fifers there scoffed at that one.
I said that I was lucky tae see a few greats live in my lifetime, although not Pele, but it had tae be Di Stefano although the closest tae him was Kenny. The token limeyscheisen and manure fan who had voted for Georgie Boy scoffed, “what’s he done, anybody can be a star in Scotland”. My response was “if he ever moves down south and I hope tae God he never does then you’ll know”, I bet he rued the day he ran the King down.
3 months later and I’m sitting watching the telex when a story comes up that the British transfer record had been broken, I could have wept before it finished as I knew our hero was gone.
To this day when Liverpool are on tele I watch with the sound muted as apart from their dirge like singing of Walk On I can’t stand their bastardised version of the Fields and how King Kenny can play. Almost 40 year later it still hurts.
Kenny Dalglish was a great Celt and a legend and he did get us, who can ever forget that infectious smile after scoring and his determination against the huns, as I’ve said on here before big Cush saved him from being sent off for what would have been violent conduct in a cup game at Boagheid so fiercely driven was he even against lowly opposition, Kenny showed up every day
His return in the DoF role was a disappointment if only in his choosing of JB as manager, as for his press conferences in Bairds, so what, he was only playing them at their own game, they bassas never bullied the Big Mhan or Martin and now they don’t with Brendan, Kenny was ready for them. Eff them.
As for his short managers stint, he achieved what, Jimmy McStay, Liam Brady, Lou Macari, Jozef Venglos and Tony Mowbray didnae and equalled what Tommy Burns did, won a trophy, one which we do not have a lot of luck in tae.
And let’s not forget it was he who gave TB a job when the Bunnet dumped him and also brought him back tae Parkheid where Tommy remained under MON and WGS and if God had spared him we might not have had tae suffer big Mogga.
For those of us that saw him we were truly blessed and for those that didn’t but still feel the need tae criticise stop reading the gutter press. For me as a player he is up there with Charles Patrick, Bobby Evans, Pat Crerand, Bobby Murdoch, wee Ten Thirty, Jinky and Henke. We didnae win every game they played in, but it wisnae for lack of effort.
I have also mentioned on here about Shoot having former players pick greats of the different areas in the UK, London, Midlands, North East, South, Mersey and Scotland. Denis Law picked the Mersey and ham and egg the Scottish selects, Kenny was the only player to figure in 2 different groupings.
Oops, just spotted Dallas’ post.
Gough sent off. No wonder I was madder than usual at losing the points!
Bobby, Sydney Tim told we should have been going for four in a row in the 82/83 season
Just on to pass on my heartfelt thanks to each and everyone of you!
This blog is truly something special always has been!
The eloquence of most of you :-) is truly amazing!! Even the flounces are carried out in expert fashion (ACGR to name but one).
We keep all coming back wether to lurk or post!
As you know I was a very proud member of the Celtic sleepout last night! I had the privilege of spending the evening in some fine company Angel Gabrielle thank you!! BRTH I never said a word about OT :-)
As captains go Tom Boyd is still “captaining” our cause! BRTH alluded to it earlier much better then I ever could! A real credit to our club! Thank you Tom!
Last night I sat in paradise surrounded by Celtic fans all coming together to make something better for someone we will never meet! We had been supported by friends and family all wanting to help others!!
I know I wouldn’t have had the courage to do half of what I do without the support and friendship of so many on here!
Thank you CQN we are more than just a club!!
Beatbhoy, the second series of true detective was realy good but not as good as the first.
I dont know if it was because there were three main characters and too much time was spent on each caracter’s background.
Colin Farrell probably just played himself in it.
Bada Bing, the actress who played Janice Soprano turned up in one scene of the night of.
Good night all and sleep well.
HT
Stop posting your good ladies moniker……although it might be the Minx because it’s far too good a post to be yours :-)
Dallas
The second series was maybe produced too quickly, to capitalise on the success of series one. Characterisation not quite there amongst the interlinking stories, as you say.
Tontine tim
Strange thing is I watched Kenny till I was 10 but have few memories him playing. Other than I knew he was our hero.
Easter road 77 maybe remember.
But once he went to Liverpool and for a 6 year period for Scotland.
Truelly world class
St Stivs
You have mail :-)
You have me worried so am staying up now (may as well have another wee cider)
St Stivs
I was only kidding about being worried…..but you have caught my attention, just ask me here nothing to hide from this side of the blog ……
Gerry it’s a no worries thing.
General chit chat.
Catch it tomorrow.
Early start.
Just back from a weekend in London. Caught the last EasyJet flight from Luton. Big Senderdross and the keeper Forderingham on the flight. Sevco can’t be paying that well as neither had speedy boarding (that includes me).
Forderingham sitting next to me must have realised I was a Tim as he spent most of the flight with his baseball cap on with his hood over it and his face buried into the back of the seat in front – very strange. Polite enough lad though. Wikipedia has him down as 6′ 1″ – more like 5′ 10″.
Watching pompei.
Cmon the celt
I’ve been flitting in and out of CQN today, whenever I could get WiFi. Fantastic post earlier by BRTH about the sleep out.
A big well done to all those involved.
Hail! Hail! PMTYH
Saint Stivs
No bother at all….
Blinking Monday’s Mr Geldof was sooooo right but I suppose we need to suffer a Monday so,we can enjoy our Friday’s !
Love this blog when fellow eijits are talking about their favourites….. Ye canny beat it
Good night and God bless
PaulMcStayCSC = Celtic
Timabhouy on 13th November 2016 10:25 pm
http://www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com/doubt-remains-rangers-uefa-licence/
=================
Thanks for posting that link to the Sporting Integrity Initiative report on the SFA’s handling of the UEFA License in 2011 and LNS in 2012.
It is less accusatory than the pulled version but nevertheless raises issues that should be dealt with to try and breathe some life into the idea that rules are for circumventing not complying with.
it brings out that the SFA appear to be justifying granting the licence on two separate grounds, the first in 2011 that the liability was potential at 31st March, the second and only surfaced this year that it wasn’t potential but HMRC had agreed to postpone collection until after Takeover. (For this to be valid such an agreement had to be in writing and predate 31st March)
One other little point of detail not covered is that the SFA should have been supplied with the tax demand letter of 20th May 2011 when it arrived and if they were AT ANY TIME IN 2011 then why did they not start asking questions then, based on its contents and why in 2012 did they not provide it to the SPL lawyers?
It was after all about ebts with side letters, the very thing the SPL were about to investigate.
I know not everyone has an interest but its bad enough feeling that you have been cheated for over ten years watching football but for that cheating to be covered up and nothing done about, particularly by Celtic who have the facts, it puts me right off football.
Quite funnily latest advert pop up for me is wee Brenda’s early life
The crown
whopps
” It is less accusatory than the pulled version but nevertheless raises issues that should be dealt with to try and breathe some life into the idea that rules are for complying with not circumventing.”
Aukdheid…
Keep on keeping on… They cheated, plain and simple
TOGC for tax purposes (not that they paid their queen)
Cheats then, cheats now and probably cheats in the future
Dodgy Dave the 1st was Craig Whyte before the Internet
Auldheid
“I know not everyone has an interest but its bad enough feeling that you have been cheated for over ten years watching football but for that cheating to be covered up and nothing done about, particularly by Celtic who have the facts, it puts me right off football.”
*****
Hear, hear!
Beatbhoy
Never let the cheats win :-)
I love Celtic whether we win or don’t
Definitely kip time………. Remember there are far more less fortunate than us lucky baskets
Here is a link to the 20th May 2011 HMRC letter accompanying the tax bill.
It should have been provided to the SFA in 2011 by RFC to comply with FFP and if it was then why was it not actioned in 2011 and why not handed to SPL in 2012? If it wasn’t then did that allow the grant to go forward on 26th May without question?
The answer as to why SPL did not get it may lie in its contents. This was in 2011 remember, 10 months before Hugh Adams interview with Alex Thomson forced action.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6uWzxhblAt9WUFuaG5JeFlmYXc/view?usp=sharing
Here endeth the lesson.
Auldheid
Thanks for the links once again.
Breakfast reading.
I haven’t been to Celtic Park in a long while.
The last game I was at was the howitzer into the top corner by Wanyama in the game when Forster saved a penalty late on.
The sense of cheating for me killed my appetite of the financial backing of the Scottish game.
Celtic’s failure to call the Huns out only added to it.
However the application of the Resolution 12 lads gives me a rethink.
The all out refusal of these lads to accept the Huns cheating makes me think again.
Justice might yet prevail.
God will see that justice is done ..and that means the Zombies stinking in the mud forever.
To the Resolution lads,God bless you all.
Finally (thank God say some)
Signatories were sent an Account of Activity that set out correspondence on their behalf by the requistitioners to Res12. A link to it has already been posted on CQN for those who were not on the list but have an interest.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6uWzxhblAt9bnFxLXZYRi1pems/view
The covering document was the Conclusions arrived at as a result of the correspondence with the SFA and UEFA sent to signatories and it is now here to be digested by the wider CQN readership.
It complements in more detail on Res12 what is in the SII report that was independently commissioned. Its long but worth reading.
Update for signatories/supporters of Resolution12 adjourned at Celtic PLC AGM of Nov 2013.
Background to Resolution 12
The full document reported in the AGM Notice AND The Board’s response that Resolution 12 was unnecessary can be read at https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6uWzxhblAt9c3pRTmtBbjhheDA/view?usp=sharing
NOTE – during the initial meeting, prior to the AGM at which agreement with the PLC was reached to adjourn the resolution, we were advised by Celtic PLC CEO Mr Peter Lawwell that if we provide a “silver bullet” he would fire it. We consider the following to be an arsenal from which Mr Peter Lawwell can select from numerous “silver bullets”.
Activity Timeline. Please read the document and the correspondence available from the first link above which provides a detailed account of our communications on your behalf, with both the SFA and UEFA from April 2015 to date It will be a long read if you check every link but what will matter most to you is the following conclusions.
Our conclusions.
1. Application for a licence is required before 31st March and on that date in RFC’s published accounts they state they had a “potential” tax liability and “discussions are continuing with HMRC to establish a resolution to the assessments raised.” Neither was the case.
2. By April first 2011, a newspaper interview with Alistair Johnson RFC Chairman confirmed, this “potential” tax liability as a bill that must be paid, citing a previous precedent set in a test case won by HMRC.
3. Existing documentation confirms a £2.8 Million tax liability, relating to side letters going back to season 1999/2000.
4. That tax liability was accepted by RFC and the subject of correspondence with the HMRC as early as February 2011.
5. The UEFA licence was not granted on 31st March 2011 as stated by SFA CEO Stuart Regan. UEFA confirmed to us this happened on April 19th 2011 by which time the £2.8 Million liability was a matter of Public Knowledge.
6. Stuart Regan, by way of a written letter in December 2011, informed the Celtic CEO that after the Licence was granted on 31st March, all discrepancies and matters of noncompliance were the sole responsibility of the UEFA (CFCB) monitoring team. It now transpires that Mr Regan in writing to the Celtic CEO:
6.1 Provided Mr Lawwell with the wrong date regarding the grant of the licence.
6.2 Failed to mention; the licence had been granted on 19th April.
6.3 Failed to mention; the grant of the licence had been intimated to UEFA on 26th May.
6.4 Failed to mention; the SFA were responsible to report all licence breaches and other matters to UEFA before the end of season 2011/12.
6.5 Failed to mention; during the season of 2011/12 the SFA determined RFC NO LONGER complied with the terms of the licence granted, offering no explanation or update as to when or on what grounds RFC eventually failed to comply.
7. All items outlined in point 6 above are confirmed to have taken place by the Head of Club Licensing at UEFA and Celtic PLC have all the correspondence.
8. Correspondence between HMRC and RFC dated 20th May 2011 exists in which HMRC provide a determination of the £2.8 Million tax bill, detailing player ebts with side letters dating back to August 2000, calculations of tax overdue and resultant penalties , the requirement for formal recovery procedures be implemented due to non-cooperation. It identifies that RFC used an irregular (DOS) EBT scheme starting in September 1999 introducing side letters in August 2000, a period excluded from the LNS Commission by the then SPL
9. The 20th May 2011 letter was received by RFC before the grant of licence for season 2011/12 was confirmed by the SFA to UEFA (26th May 2011). RFC were responsible to report the letter to the SFA immediately. In turn the SFA were responsible to report the letter to UEFA and revaluate the license grant in the event that subsequent further evidence invalidates the initial granting, prior to reporting to UEFA
10. Celtic PLC, understandably are averse to peddling or dealing in correspondence between HMRC and other SFA member clubs. Accordingly we engaged an independent firm of international solicitors seeking clarification from the SFA and UEFA (at the invitation of the SFA), on their knowledge of the existence and the status of this letter, and its effect on their licensing process. For the avoidance of doubt the letter of 20th May was only one of a series of communications between all the parties and that series started before March 2011 and ended long after 20th May 2011.
11. While neither have denied knowledge of the 20th May 2011 letter. Both SFA and UEFA refuse to answer our questions about, when or if the letter was brought to their attention. How it was brought to their attention. What action was taken on confirmation of an overdue and unpaid tax liability being pursued by HMRC, prior to both the RFC UEFA competition participation under the licence granted by the SFA on 19th April, and reporting license approval to UEFA on 26th May 2011
12.. Evidently from the above, the statements made by the CEO of the SFA to the CEO of Celtic PLC regarding the licence approval/grant and subsequent monitoring procedures are inaccurate and misleading because:
12.a. UEFA cannot begin to monitor a licence until they know it is approved, in this case the licence approval decision was not confirmed to UEFA until 26th May. Thus Stuart Regan is patently incorrect when stating in writing and in public broadcasts that the SFA had no role to play in any licensing matters after 31st March.
12.b. Regan’ statement above is contradicted by UEFA, clearly identifying that during season 2011/12 the SFA determined RFC “no longer” complied with UEFA licensing provisions. They stipulate this was an SFA determination, without clarification on when or why “no longer” was applied. This asks serious questions about what Regan told Celtic.
12.c. The SFA compliance officer intimated without categorically stating or confirming when, that they were unaware of the HMRC May 20th letter, after we provided a copy in 2014, but appear to be saying they had the information contained in later correspondence. Shareholders believe that on receipt of our copy the SFA should have contacted UEFA without further activity from us. Shareholders were concerned at the outset that this letter and others concerned had been withheld from the SFA altogether, apparently this MAY not be the case. Significantly in LNS terms if the SFA did indeed have the 20th May letter in 2011 why was it not passed to their then SPL colleagues along the corridor in 2012 when LNS was being commissioned?
13. Both the SFA and UEFA are clear that they will only answer questions posed directly by a member club namely Celtic PLC or any other club.
14. To our knowledge no member club has or plans to ask any such direct questions – partly on the basis of not wanting to deal in the private correspondence of other clubs setting a dangerous footballing precedent AND partly because they wish to appear to rely on the integrity and self-certifying nature of the football regulations and procedures.
15. While we respect and fully understand, the reasons given by Celtic PLC in relation to this stance we cannot agree for the following reasons:
15.1. There are clear contradictions between the explanations given by the SFA and UEFA as to what took place which require investigation.
15.2. Both HMRC and the Lord Advocate’s office have alleged fraudulent activity in relation to the tax bill concerned, this alone justifies further enquiry into the events of the season 2011/12 UEFA footballing licence approval and administration.
15.3. Whilst appreciating the need to be circumspect regarding the sources of documentation and correspondence, the fact remains that the licensing process that Celtic and other clubs seek to protect and abide by, gives both the SFA and UEFA full powers to recover all documents from member clubs, official bodies including tax authorities, and all necessary third parties. This is what Resolution 12 sought, requesting that UEFA commission an independent enquiry with such full powers of recovery. Such a report strengthens the licensing system rather than weakens it. Seeking clarification in these circumstances does not in any way harm Celtic PLC, on the contrary, it displays their determination to protect the integrity of the game (benefitting all clubs) and the interests of all the shareholders.
15.4 Celtic PLC is responsible to all its shareholders to ensure that it trades within a sporting framework that is properly administered allowing the club to trade on an even footing with all other companies or organisations within the same trade associations. It is clear from all the above that in this instance, when the Celtic PLC CEO properly sought explanations from office bearers of those trade associations he was given less than candid explanations and may well have been completely misled.
15.5 The latest response from UEFA does not suggest that there are no questions to be asked and answered in this case, especially considering the stance taken by UEFA itself in the case of FC Giannina [License refused on investigation due to tax overdue payable and private agreement (side letter?) grounds)] in circumstances bearing a remarkable similarity to the circumstances at play here. What the response does say is that these questions CAN only be asked and WILL only be answered by way of a formal enquiry from a member club.
16. In the circumstances, we, as representatives of the signatories of Resolution 12 have taken this matter as far as we can, clearly the only way that further enquiry and answers can be made will be if UEFA receive a formal request from a member club.
17 The Timeline of correspondence and this document is being circulated privately by e mail to those who either signed Resolution 12 and/or the later mandate to provide names to the SFA whose e mail addresses we hold, with advance apologies to those who should be contacted but we cannot in the absence of the ability to e mail.
18. A copy of our narrative and the supporting timeline has been copied to Celtic to consider their position prior to the AGM on 16th November 2016 when we believe the PLC should now make a statement with regard to their position on the necessity of Resolution 12. We have run the course on your behalf with regards to UEFA and in doing so we think we have made a case for an investigation into the SFA’s approval of the 2011 UEFA Licence granted to Rangers FC which is now up to Celtic to pursue. If, having read the attached and this message, you agree you might wish to signal so by e mail to John Paul Taylor JPTaylor@celticfc.co.uk Subject Line: Res12 Statement for 2016 AGM? It will be drawn to the attention of The Company Secretary.
Next Friday all out attack on the Killie abstainers.
The Griff and Mouss up top wae Roberts and Sinclair on the flanks.
Kilmarnock 0-5 Celtic.
Goodnight lads from Free Doire.
Tiocfaidh ar la.
Evening?morning all. Thats me jist hame. My best Celtic team Mr Stein picked up on he went with on 25/05/1967. Look how that turned out for him/us. Bless the sleepooters.
How many lives would have been saved if Hitler hadn’t been elected?
God bless the bullet.
Hi Guys
A couple of weeks ago I sent a letter to Celtic Park, the plc registered office, asking that I, as a shareholder, be allowed access in order to the view the complete list of the Club’s shareholders. I waited until Friday of last week, and having had no word back, I phoned up. I gave a brief explanation of my business to an operator, who, after giving me her own opinion -she thought I was a scammer- switched me to an extension where she had said I could speak to an appropriate member of staff. The only voice at the other end was one that asked me to leave a message. I hung up and phoned again. I then waited in a queue for a few minutes, being told at one point I was third, but was then cut off. I gave up.
Does anyone know if I am entitled to the shareholder information from the Club’s registered office?
I also wish to send a letter containing highly sensitive information to the Club Secretary in time for the AGM, but after Friday’s experience I am not confident he would receive this. I’m in Ireland, so not easy to hand in.
Any help would be appreciated.
HH
Tontine
Great post last night re Kenny, couldn’t have put it better myself!
HH
Kit,
You are within your rights to access that information however from my research you need to advise the company secretary that you wish access and arrange a date when you would turn up and review the register. I’m sure there is a time limit on the prevarication time the company are allowed after which you can make an official complaint to the ombudsman. I’ve not heard of anyone requesting access so not sure how such a request would be received. I do not expect the Plc will deny you access as its your right as a shareholder. However I don’t believe there is any such facility for electronic review.
Oops,
Addressed to kill-ultra
Kill-ultra,
Your letter should have set a date when you wanted access, that would have allowed you to turn up with proof that you are a shareholder and given you access to the register.
Now why do I get the feeling your only motive is to discredit Res12 and its representatives ?
Rather than provide useful information that will help improve the integrity of football governance.
CANAMALAR
He’s wasting his time.
The backing offered to the resolutioners only had to meet a minimum requirement numerically.
If there is the occasional dodgy one in there-placed,I suspect by,erm,not-one-of-us,it doesn’t damage or discredit the resolution.
Or,in a soundbite,he’s on to plums…