Campbell Ogilvie was an executive director of Rangers for the first five years of their Employee Benefit Trusts and during their earlier illegally-executed tax avoidance Discount Options Scheme. He received a ‘loan’ from a Rangers EBT, which he has not repaid and is not expected to repay, and recently described his company responsibilities during this period to a friendly journalist as being administrative, and then legislative.
He has been a director of the SFA for 22 years and is now president.
During the period when Ogilvie was director of both Rangers and the SFA the club illegally registered dozens of footballers with the SFA. All directors are responsible for actions of a company, executive directors especially so. Those who represent themselves as having administrative and legislative roles, absolutely so.
SFA chief executive, Stewart Regan, yesterday defended Ogilvie’s shameless refusal to resign by offering a defence which echoed Rangers ‘Craig Whyte acted alone’ defence, which was comprehensively dismissed by the SFA Judicial Tribunal.
Regan said, “We have had very clear feedback that the president was not involved in any letter or correspondence with regards to player EBTs.
“We are all aware of businesses being run where you have one owner and operator running the club and a number of directors sitting below. The way this process has been managed, a lot of this correspondence was done much higher up the chain than Campbell Ogilvie.”
This is cringe-worthy nonsense and gets to the heart of the lack of corporate governance at the SFA. Mr Regan is not qualified to assure us that Mr Ogilvie has no case to answer. That is not a judgement for him to make and is certainly not an inference that can be made on the basis of private comments from Mr Ogilvie or other former Rangers directors similarly contaminated by this issue.
Before the chief executive can state as fact how Rangers conducted their business, and the limited involvement of Mr Ogilvie, some form of inquiry must have taken place. No such inquiry happened.
“We have had very clear feedback”, said Mr Regan. Who is “we”, was it an independent panel that received this feedback, or did Mr Regan deal with this personally? Who gave the feedback? Was Mr Ogilvie subject to the same independent scrutiny as anyone else in the game, from Neil Lennon to Craig Whyte, or was this passed off with a handshake?
Mr Regan’s failure to recognise the serious corporate governance failures in his conduct is alarming. We don’t need this guy to know the offside rule but he has to understand good corporate governance requires questions against your president to be openly and independently investigated.
When these are our standards, what else is the executive turning a blind eye to?
Mr Regan was careful to limit his claim on what Mr Ogilvie was not party to. “We have had very clear feedback that the president was not involved in any letter or correspondence with regards to player EBTs” sounds like a substantial piece of information but it’s not.
This only claims that Mr Ogilvie did not author any side letter or contract relating to an EBT, which is not in doubt. The important issue is clearly Mr Ogilvie knew dozens of players had EBTs, he knew football players’ remuneration is subject to detailed written contracts and he knew all money paid to a player, from any source, in relation to football, must be detailed on his contract and registered with the SFA.
For Rangers players’ EBTs to be consistent with SFA and Fifa requirements they would need to be completely discretionary, an optional extra the players were unable to rely on. Mr Ogilvie, the Great Football Administrator, knew all of this.
Instead of good corporate governance we appear to have a self-certified president – we know Mr Ogilvie did nothing wrong because Mr Ogilvie said he did nothing wrong. He is at once, a Great Football Administrator and unaware of the football administration actions of the company he was legally responsible for.
Ogilvie was an executive director of Rangers. It was his responsibility as a director of Rangers to ensure that the club contracts and legislative responsibilities were conducted in a proper manner. He was simultaneously a director of the SFA. It was his responsibility as a director of the SFA to ensure the Association was run in an even-handed manner, that one club – his club or any other – could not load the dice.
Regan went on to say “Since February 14 he has had no involvement at all in any board meetings, any decisions or any meetings with the club.”
It is reassuring that he has withdrawn from an important part of the legislative process of the SFA but his prominent participation in yesterday’s AGM confirms that his influence in other areas remains.
Regan added “[EBTs] are illegal if they are used knowingly in an incorrect manner. That is something we are still waiting for facts on. But I am satisfied that Campbell has discharged his duty of care. He has done everything we could have asked of him and, so far as his integrity is concerned, he is a man with many years as a highly respected administrator across the game of football in Scotland.”
“So far as his integrity is concerned….many years …. respected administrator”. Those words may bring to mind all those years Ogilvie was at Ibrox while Rangers sectarian signing policy was in place.
Regan dismissed calls for his own resignation, no doubt confident he can self-certify his performance.
I am hugely reluctant to open a political debate, but does the painful lack of accountability and scrutiny in Scotland not alarm you? The actions (inactions) of Ogilvie and Regan would never be accepted in England, where structures exist to hold officials to account. As a relic from Rangers sectarian signing policy days, Ogilvie would be regarded as an embarrassing dinosaur, he would never be made president! The ability for officials to state facts without an inquiry would never be tolerated.
We look more like a rotten borough than a country with the mechanisms necessary to nurture a successful state. Where’s your voice now, Mr Salmond?
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merseycelt , tomthelennytim
re asset sale
Not sure why HMRC would agree to this but what they get from that and the CVA isn’t going to give them very much either way.
Straight liquidation with an asset sale at realisable values should give all creditors more but that could take a long time and no guarantee that assets will raise that much on the open market.
Mort
As the weekend has started pour moi, I think I’ll pour myself a wee swally :>)
Hx2
Is there any significance in the fact that DBO is an anagram of DOB?
lochgoilhead bhoy
In the original note to creditors with admin proposals they asked if creditors would agree to a number of resolutions. One of which was that the admins could see part of or all the assets without recourse to creditors. In todays note, all resolutions were accepted with some modified.
They only announced the results today but the vote took place longer ago so when HMRC agreed to that, they didn’t know an asset sale would only raise £5.5m
Mort
wonkyradar
Zombie FC, i like that :-))
Magnificentseven on 7 June, 2012 at 20:51 said:
Do they play soccer.
leftclicktic on 7 June, 2012 at 20:48 said:
Hard to read that without a huge smile spreading across my face..
lennon’s passion on 7 June, 2012 at 20:57 said:
Magnificentseven on 7 June, 2012 at 20:51 said:
Do they play soccer
of course not just a wee joke !!
Canamalar
BDO = Better Dead Orcs
Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire on 7 June, 2012 at 20:49:
Bludgeoners of Dead Orcs (BDO)…
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
Italian press reporting RFC have made an offer to Gattuso.
Doesn’t say what it is right enough, but breathtaking arrogance all the same if true…
lennybhoy
Originally D&P sent creditors a list of resolutions for them to vote on. One of which said that they could sell the whole or part of assets and creditors couldn’t get to vote on it again. This vote was taken and this resolution passed at that vote. Notice of the vote was only given today which may lead to some confusion.
D&P were only able to send out a CVA proposal after this “creditors meeting” and it was here that the asset sale to Green was clarified. HMRC and other creditors would have voted before knowing how much it was likely to achieve.
I’m surprised by it too but the liquidators will only be appointed when newco comes into existence and liquidators can investigate the affairs of the previous regimes and can try to get money from them.
Mort
Mort – cheers. Doubts remain I guess.
Lifted this from KDS:
saw this on cm
The main points are:-
HMRC did not approve the resolutions, they modified them. Rejecting them would have meant court intervention; modifications mean that HMRC has approved on terms they want. These terms put a time limit on the administration, and clearly question D&P role to date, as well as putting HMRC in complete control of RFC fate.
Firstly, they rejected D&P as liquidators in event CVA fails, and replaced them with BDO (original proposals had D&P continuing as liquidators) Secondly, they rejected the clean approval of D&P fees, and added a sentence that preserves their rights to challenge fees in future. Thirdly, they specifically added a new clause that they will consider CVA on its merits, but that receiving a proposal does not signify acceptance of the proposal (was ambiguous before). Fourthly, they added a new clause which put a time-limit of D&P to make a CVA proposal of 3 months.
So, HMRC have now a clear path to rejecting CVA and appointing their own liquidators without further ado. Resolutions state that D&P have to put company into liquidation (and hand over to BDO) as soon as it is clear that continuing operations will not result in a more funds for creditors than a liquidation. This will happen immediately a CVA is rejected, which is in the power of HMRC alone.
Green has an obligation to buy the assets if a CVA fails (let’s forget that his buying company is a newco with no assets, so he could walk away anyway…). However, D&P or future liquidators do not have an obligation to sell. They have an option to force Green to buy, which is different. As soon as the liquidators are appointed, it will be an open market process.
Green has wasted his £200k option fee (if it was actually paid over). Dave King has seen these resolutions, and knows the game is up. He’s posturing for the corpse. Fixture list is published 48 hrs after CVA will be rejected….
Mort on 7 June, 2012 at 20:56 said:
I can see where you are coming from. If you haven’t done so yet then can I suggest you look at Paul McConville’s blog where he pre-empted our discusson:
Paul McC
He states “I think that HMRC has taken the view that clause 17.1.4 is uncertain and therefore void. If D&P attempt to carry through a sale to Mr Green, who is now the only show in town, under that clause, I suspect that HMRC will be at court to stop it in a flash.”
Of course he may be wrong.
It is a good discussion/argument.
Magnificentseven on 7 June, 2012 at 20:58 said:
Got it mate was trying a wee joke myself. But as my mates say my patter is poor.
Italian press reporting RFC have made an offer to Gattuso
You wanta buya a club?
ItaliaBhoy on 7 June, 2012 at 21:00 said:
I hope they sign him as that’s exactly what Sion did signed players before the end of their transfer embargo, the rest as they say is history..
Omniscient I am not, but well informed.
Mephistopheles in Goethe’s Faust.
Does anyone else wonder, with schadenfreude irony, if the hun’s could have saved their doomed club if they would have listened to the internet bampots?
And the Truth shall come from the mouth of Lunatics.
Malcolm Cohen reincarnation of Malcolm Owen? RIP. Babylon’s Burning. RutsCSC.HH.
Mort on 7 June, 2012 at 20:53:
Did you read my earlier post to you?
Seeking clarification that HMRC has agreed to let Green acquire assets for £5.5 million?
As I posted, HMRC will have carried out their own valuations and will no doubt be higher than £5.5 million.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
Good Evening.
Yesterday, Mr Stewart Regan made what is potentially the most explosive statement on the whole Rangers saga. The significance of Regans utterings appear to have sailed over the heads of the MSM as usual– although it is always possible that some clever folk recognised exactly what our Stewart was saying, and are busy beavering away at what appears to be the inevitable consequence of such a statement.
Let’s go back 24 hours and deal with the intened headline from the AGM which is that the clubs themselves will have to be far more stringent and careful when it comes to self certifying whether a new owner is fit and proper.
Stewart Regan was at pains to point out that in future, in the event of there being a change of control at any club– or in the company that runs a club– then the outgoing board or owner will be under a duty to provide a certificate and evidence that they have carried out some proper due diligence on the incoming owner. In the event that it transpires that the the SFA are ultimately not satisfied about that new owner, then there can be sanctions against the club as a result– presumably as a result of the “club” not doing enough by way of due diligence, and the new guy being obviously dodgy?
Of course all of this comes about as a result of the Craig Whyte fiasco, and of course, absolutely none of what Regan announced yesterday would have made a jot of a difference to the position that Rangers finds itself in today!
We already know that there was a report into Whyte prepared by or for the supposedly independent ( but ultimately toothless ) takeover committee at Rangers PLC. However, David Murray did not care a jot as to its findings an supposedly told other Directors at Rangers that
” It is too late- the deal is done!”. It follows, therefore, that Regan’s “cure” could not have prevented the sale going through. Murray was going to sell to anyone– whether they were fit and proper or not in the eyes of the SFA.
As for Whyte? Well what care he for the opinion of the SFA? Again the answer is — absolutely nowt! For the princely price of a squidly did, Whytie would have taken his chances with the SFA no matter what any report threw up. After all what are the SFA going to do? Declare him not fit and proper? Aye well he was the owner anyway- still is! He wasn’t fit and proper before he bought the club and certainly didn’t enhance the situation once he was in situ.
Maybe he could have stayed off the board? Maybe he could have placed ownership nominally in the hands of a trusted lieutenant? Maybe that is what he is trying to do at the moment?
Remember too that the ultimate sanction would appear to be to suspend or expel Rangers, and how often have we heard that Rangers are too big for expulsion and suspension, that Scottish football can’t do without Rangers, and that they are needed for the good of the game? Until they started to make a real and seemingly never ending horlicks of an already bad situation, suspension or expulsion seemed impossible on the ground of SFA & SPL self interest. However the poistion now appears slightly different as the blazers appear to have recognized that the Ibrox beast is out of control and things cannot be simply swept under the carpet.
Anyway you look at it, the SFA fit and proper person proposal was never going to prevent or stand in the way of a sale to Whyte, because other factors, including Murray’s own busines mismanagement, determined that unless Whytie walked away— that sale was happening. Things were that desperate.
Further, all of this self certification due diligence nonsense only applies to when there is a change of control as far as I can see. So let me pose a few questions then:
David Murray may well have been deemed a fit and proper person to run a football club when he bought Rangers, but was he fit and proper by the end of his tenure?
What about Dave King? Is he fit and proper? He doesn’t have a controlling interest, but he is and was a Director of the club. He has also been accused of failing to pay the South African Tax man to the tune of millions upon millions of pounds and he is the subject of civil and criminal action and investigation, with his assets being frozen and so on.
Does any of that matter because he is not the owner of Rangers, and when he invested his money, there was no change of control?
Further, in virtually any other licening system, the applicant has to prove that they are fit and proper at every turn– on initial application, at renewal, and throughout the course of holding a licence. Further, a company can be deemed not to be fit and proper as a result of the actings of its Directors or officials. The Police often report to licensing authorities on the activities of Directors, with the result that a company can be deemed as not fit and proper as a result of their behaviour and activity.
The SFA articles and the UEFA regulations place ongoing obligations on the clubs. There is provision for an “Audit” of the clubs compliance by a “Licensing Manager” who is meant to Audit the contracts, financial arrangements and compliance of each member club. Presumably if you “fail” the Audit, the club concerned will be in trouble and will face losing its licence.
All of which brings me to Regans statement about the position of Campbell Ogilvie.
You see a number of things bother me… they just don’t add up.
For example, how often are we told that the EBT’s are mentioned in the Rangers accounts? They are supposedly clearly mentioned there– each and every year.
The SPL are currently looking at 5 boxes of documentation in connection with supposed dual contracts– that apparently took over 3 months to reach them from Ibrox? The BBC have seen some of this stuff apparently, and one newspaper had a copy of a contract or maybe two. However the FTT may well have seen far more and have had access to endless amounts of documentation.
Yet over all the years that the SFA carried out its Licensing Audit procedures, it would appear that the SFA uncovered precisely nothing!…. Nil!…. Nada…. Nowt!
There is nothing– absolutely nothing– that is now in the public domain that has come about as a result of any SFA or SPL investigation or enquiry, or as a result of their supposed checks and balances re Licensing requirements.
That is just astonishing– especially as the EBT payments were mentioned in the accounts!
Surely a rudimentary examination of the sums paid under those EBT’s would have revealed regular payments to players– as in like too regular? Surely if an Auditor asked to see a schedule of bank transactions re EBT’s and maybe any supporting documentation, then some of this may have come to light?
Now remember that Mark Daly asked everyone involved in EBT payments to comment prior to the showing of the BBC documentary, and was met with the equivalent of a Rangers wide Omerta!
However what was not known until yesterday, was that all this time Stewart Regan was sitting on a time bomb for Rangers, because he has taken statements from someone who could be Rangers very own deepthroat— Campbell Ogilvie!
Look at what Regan said: He is perfectly comfortable with Ogilvie’s position at the SFA because it has been explained that Ogilvie was not involved in the EBT’s for players, and with player registrations at any time. No, that was all delt with by others who were far higher up the pecking order on the Ibrox board and at the inner sanctum of running the club!
Remember, Ogilvie was general secretary of the Ibrox club from 1978 till 2005 apparently, and later he was a full Director. He received £95,000 by way of the EBT.
Douglas Odam was the Finace Director for 15 years until 2003 when he left to take up a position within the Murray Group. He received £115,000 by way of EBT payments.
Andrew Dickson was the financial controller at Ibrox, but in 2003 he became the head of football Administration— meaning that he is the guy whose job it was to oversee contracts and presumably licensing compliance in relation to player contracts and so on. He received £33,000 by way of EBT payments.
But who did he report to? From whom did he take his instructions?
How did he go about administering contracts and so on when a new player arrived? Who told him what the terms and conditions were for any new player? How did he know what sum to put into the SFA registered contract? And who calculated the sums to be transferred each month or quarter from the Rangers PLC bank account to the EBT?
Well according to the CEO of the SFA, the President of the SFA ( who presumably has been deemed a fit and proper person to hold that post ) has said that there were “others” who were higher up the food chain who dealt with all of that AND who must have kept all that information hidden from the President when he was Director and Secretary at Rangers.
Ogilvie must have named names to Regan…… he must have explained how it worked when he was at Ibrox…. otherwise how could Regan be so completely satisfied as to Ogilvie’s squeaky clean position?
Further, if Ogilvie is to be believed, then whoever these people were, they must have pulled the wool over the eyes of anyone who sat in a formal board meeting at Ibrox. They must have ensured that EBT payments and contract registrations were never discussed at Board level– otherwise Campbell would have known!
Now there is some credence to this because Alistair Johnstone has previously said on Radio Shortbread that he had read over all the previous board minutes and that EBT’s were never mentioned. If that is true then the board didn’t ever approve EBT payments leaving the Rangers bank account– surely a matter that would need board approval?
So if the board didn’t approve the payments– who did? And where are those minutes that AJ referred to? Are they with the SPL as part of the 5 boxes?
Yet, even that explanation has its flaws, because presumably the Directors saw the annual accounts– and of course they contained references to EBT payments. Surely a Director would question what these payments were? You wouldn’t just think ” That is odd” and say nothing or do nothing? Certainly the independent SFA judicial panel would frown on doing nothing, as we already know.
No matter how you look at it, Campbell Ogilvie has clearly provided some form of exculpatory statement to Stewart Regan and possibly the SFA board in order to preserve and maintain his position as President. That statement, from what Regan has said, clearly points the finger at others and suggests that they deliberately witheld important information from Directors of a PLC which is listed on the stock exchange. That same company, then attracted millions of pounds of investment from guys like Joe Lewis and Dave King…. and lo and behold Dave King is now alleging the same thing– that information and practices were witheld from him with the consequence that he was persuaded to invest and lose Millions of pounds.
Of course the FTT judgement may well show that Campbell Ogilvie is nothing but a two bit liar– and that would be really embarrassing. However, it may just support his contention that there was an inner mafia at Ibrox who were deciving even their colleagues around the board room table.
If so, then I expect Mr Regan will make all notes and statements in his possession available to the tax authorities, the police and anyone else who has been prejudiced by such behaviour and no doubt the SFA will declare that those involved shall never again be fit to hold a position in Scottish Football.
Unfortunately, as the people concerned were at the helm and the very heart of the “club” it will be the club that has to bear the SFA punishment especially if the club benefitted as a result of any such longstanding deception.
I wonder who Campbell named and what action will follow?
Campbell Ogilvie is Deep Throat?
Who’d a thunk it?
BDO = Bliddy Dobbers Obliterated
BDO = Best Death Ootion
Tax cheat jailed for five years
Published on Thursday 7 June 2012 13:03
A 53-year-old man who became involved in offshore tax avoidance has been jailed for five years.
Stephen Maxwell, of Wallach Court, Dalbeattie, was found guilty after a six-week trial at Kirkcudbright Sheriff Court of avoiding paying tax and National Insurance contributions totalling more than £600,000.
Maxwell, an IT consultant and contractor, hid the money from HMRC over a nine-year period, with his fees for his services from banks being paid into companies – of which he was a hidden beneficiary – registered in Gibraltar and the Isle of Man.
His agent told Sheriff Kenneth Robb that it was Maxwell’s accountant and financial advisers who had brought him into this offshore scheme, which the basis for the indictment.
Maxwell was found guilty on charges of pretending to Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs that he had no taxable income over a nine-year period to May 2008.
He was convicted by the jury of forming a fraudulent scheme to evade income tax and National Insurance payments totalling £635,015 to HMRC by failing to reveal earnings of almost £2 million.
During the trial it was stated that Maxwell was earning £800 a day working as an information technology consultant for JP Morgan Chase Bank and Deutsche Bank.
He was originally charged with avoiding payments of more than £1.7 million. This amount was reduced and charges against his wife were dropped.
Maxwell, who was said to own offshore companies in the Isle of Man and Gibraltar, was also accused of putting assets beyond the reach of creditors, in particular HMRC, by purchasing Barncailzie Hall at Springholm, near Castle Douglas.
His agent, advocate Andrew Murphy, said the scheme was not Maxwell’s invention but he had persisted in it for a number of years.
“Even to tax experts, it is a law which is complex. His error was, maybe, at an early stage, he did not seek sound advice about the legality of the scheme and this was compounded by not being up front with the income tax and bankruptcy,” he said.
Mr Murphy added: “He made no effort whatsoever to make payment and once into the scheme he din not seek a way of finding a way out. He blindly carried on hoping not to be discovered.
“He was obsessed with computers and it seems he had a high talent which was probably wasted. He revelled in solving computer problems and worked seven days a week and all his holidays.”
Mr Murphy said the scheme had not brought Mr Maxwell financial rewards and all had been lost, his house in England and his house and estate in the Stewartry.
Sheriff Robb said he did not agree with Maxwell’s agent that he had not harmed anyone and said that in this age of constraint £635,000 was a lot of money and would have helped the public purse.
He told Maxwell: “You have enjoyed the fruits of your labour and the tax that you should have paid. The tree may be bare but you used the fruits over many years.”
Maxwell’s sentence was back-dated to March and Proceeds of Crime hearing has been adjourned until August.
Blind Directors Organisation
Bandits Double-dealing Ordure
Busy Diddling Outlaws
bundoran bhoy no worries just wanted to say the word Administration,hope Liquidation for them is not far away
H H
lochgoilhead bhoy
If resolution 17.1.4 is void then I wonder why it wasn’t modified but would make sense as to why HMRC would let it slide.
I must have another good read at the detail behind the “sale to green info” as it may not be as clear cut as I thought. It may be that once the CVA fails, BDO are appointed and in that case they can refuse the sale. If that’s the case then it makes perfect sense for HMRC to have acted the way they did.
Must look at PMcC stuff, he’s on the button. His article on CW’s incubator stuff was good and was something I had sort of suggested last week that the key thing about Mark Daly’s emails was the timescale they had hoped which led me to suggest that they wanted to do some sort of pre-pack deal but was scuppered by HMRC’s intervention.
Mort
If HMRC thought a CVA was a good idea they wouldn’t be bothered about any talk of who would carry out a liquidation.
The fact that they are specifying BDO means that they either know liquidation will happen or at the very least think it a distinct possibility.
I have no doubt that RFC plc (ia) will be killed off. I also have no doubt that a new club will be formed. Whether it will be ready and able to compete next season is still a doubt though.
Berrnard Mathews turkeys have a brighter future!!
lennybhoy
see my response to you at 21:00. HMRC agreed to the resolution allowing an asset sale but this was before the actual amount was known.
Mort
British Darts Organisation. HH wee angie xx HH.
The Seaman tells stories of the wind,
The farmer of Bull;
The Soldier details his wounds,
The Taxman his dodgers;
The Aberdonian his Sheep,
& The SFA official his various handshakes.
Sextus Propertius
Roman Poet.
The hun’s have the most rigid code of immorality in the world.
Ray Bradbury.
Ross Wallace
Mo Camara
Danny Fox
Lee Naylor
Edson Braafheid
El Khadouri
*pattern*
TET
The only show in town was pre pack. The quicker they phoenix the quicker they can get their hands on that 15m floating season ticket money.
They. Green,Whyte are still buying Griers original plan and it is they that want RFC liquidated pronto. The football authorities dont. Thats why they are being so belligerent and the authorites so uninterested in it.
HH
RobertTressell on 7 June, 2012 at 19:40 said:
Did you see the far right scumbag on Greek TV slapping a female Communist Party member for the world to see?
————-
Totally agree,palomine…
Any fule should know that the correct implement for administering discipline to a petulant swivel-eyed unwashed leftie is ,quite obviously…the very firmest of courgettes……
————–
Channel 4 Guru Murthy interviewing ‘Ed’ Miliband, on the subject of ‘Englishness’..
Talk about ‘car crash’ tv….24 carat Comedy Gold Classic…..
Bye Bye, ‘Ed’……Anyone know if Aardvark Productions are looking for a life-sized stuntman ? Payment negotiable,Wensleydale preferred….
(Thumbsup?)
bundoran bhoy
Will we have the badges before you go on holiday?
We are all waiting in anticipation! LOL
bournesouprecipe on 7 June, 2012 at 21:17 said:
*pattern*
Left backs that wurnae?