I think some people have been reading too much into mentions of Rangers owing HMRC up to £75m. For clarity, the big tax case, with penalties and interest, could reach approximately £50m, but that is not the end of the story.
There is the wee tax case, the potential VAT liability relating to the income from Ticketus and VAT due each quarter. Then there is Pay As You Earn (PAYE) and National Insurance (NI). With the lack of financial information from Rangers barring this “£75m” statement, it’s possible VAT, PAYE and NI are delinquent.
Add this lot up and you can easily see why the taxpayer could be looking at a £75m hit, Rangers did not link this figure with the big tax case alone. I’ll leave it up to Craig Whyte’s next interviewers to ask how much of this figure has been incurred under his stewardship.
And remember, we’re only talking about HMRC debt here, don’t forget about the police, Glasgow City Council, utility suppliers and a multitude of small local businesses.
We don’t need no stinkin’ Rangers.
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Zbyszek @10:00
Pal, you are as much a part of the Celtic family as anyone on CQN.
Enjoy.
SwanseaBhoy
The folk who denied there was a problem 7 or 8 years ago.
The folk who ignored the problem and mocked those who highlighted it 5 or 6 years ago.
The folk who allowed Walter to use the problem to ensure he was deified by their support despite not dealing with the problem 3 or 4 years ago.
The folk who spoke of warchests and a new dawn and did nothing to highlight that it didnt make sense last year.
The folk who took the succulent lamb and amplified tales of Casinos and Superdomes, who talked of new grand stages for rangers to play on….one team for the Scottish League, one for Europe and one for the inter galactic competition……..
These are the folk who are now telling the loyal and true that they will survive and everything will be all right after taking a 10 point hit. Hell mend them all !
The most amazing thing is that no one has reposted Ken Gallaghers masterpiece yet on here today or any of Traynors celebrated works……..
I listened to Messrs Lawell and Bankier on shortbread last night, and thought they both did very well.
After PL stated he didn’t wish to discuss any other club, the interviewer badgered him into discussing the Horribles and their woeful woes. PL was very diplomatic, and I’m also warming to the new Chairman.
But they still have some tricky rapids to negociate, before they reach clear green water.
Truth 1690
Even when looking up from his knees Truthy has the affront to tell us “mark my words” oh you wise and dangerous prophet you, how we tremble at your might..
Careful Bhoys we laugh at rangers at our peril, so the truthy bhoy says…
Why are you not at your club today…
Shall I tell you, because you don’t care deep in your heart what happens one way or the other..
And shall I tell you why because deep down in your heart you know that your club did this to your club and nobody else in Scotland cares..
Starry Plough
The RTC blog has made the Share Purchase Agreement and ancillary documentation available on line.
http://rangerstaxcase.com/
truth4767 says:
14 February, 2012 at 10:16
I can quite understand the gloating, it is football after all. But the hate factor is hard to take, especially for the reasonable fan on both sides of the divide.
The knock on effects for Scottish Football will be severe, and it will reach Parkhead.
Hearts will get a pittance now in settlement for Wallace, they could go on Thursday. Dundee Utd , another club, with severe problems will not get their cup money. The SPL is a house of cards ready to collapse.
Football needs rivalry and competition, you will tire of jelly and ice cream quickly.
Mark my words
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And yet you seem to display not the slightest guilt at any of this.
Good riddance,nae offence like!
Rankers fans were given the opportunity to help save their club through share issues, and chose not to.
Celtic fans enabled by Fergus, saved Celtic
Livibhoy
Just seen your post re John Hughes :-))
My wife works for the owner, and spoke to Hughes and Collins. Phoned me an hour ago to tell me.
So I posted the message.
Looked back and saw your post from hours ago.
Phoned the missus back and said “it has been announced about Hughes. When did you speak to John Hughes and John Collins”?
Her reply? “Oh, it was yesterday, I forgot to tell you!!”
Wummen.
Moonbeams
I am 100% convinced that HMRC are going after the whole lot of them and because they are all in it together.
Murray, Whyte and AJ
Two birds with the one stone.
Murray and Whyte and those daft enough to follow their orders ….. and it is not about money.
HMRC know for sure that they will not get their due money it is another kind of satisfaction they are looking for.
Removing criminals from the scene basically.
What needs to be understood that Craig Whytes action yesterday means that their is NO COMMUNICATION between HMRC and RFC.
What needs to be understood that Craig Whytes action yesterday means that his final pitch was dismissed out of hand probably a few days ago.
What Craig Whyte is attempting to do and with full MIH backing is to make an emotional pitch (I.e emotional blackmail) to HMRC regarding hun FC
Everyman and his dug knows that HMRC dont do emotion
Craig Whyte knows this
AJ knows this
Skinty knows this
But the daft we deluded bears dont … and that´s why it has been done.
So they can blame the HMRC while queueing up to kiss their grandmasters backside.
YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hail Hail
The other day I put this idea forward regarding how to get round the necessity the media are throwing around for their OF games and the SKY contract.
I think it should be revisited.
There are 42 clubs in Scottish football at present (too many I am sure you will agree).
To get these games while Rangers are in a lower division you reintroduce league cup sections:
Glasgow Section
Celtic
Some team in blue
Partick Thistle
Queens Park
Do the same with Edinburgh, North East, Far North East, Ayrshire etc and the fact that these will be local games increases the chance of revenue being higher from gate money.
Edinburgh Section
Hibs
hearts (or whoever they are)
Livingston
Berwick Rangers
Ayrshire/Galloway?Dumfries
Kilmarnock
Ayr United
QOTS
Stranraer
Annan Athletic
Dunbarton
Because you need one 6 section group
North East
Aberdeen
Forfar
Brechin
Montrose
Tayside
Dundee United
Dundee
St Johnstone
Alloa
Central 1
Motherwell
Airdrie
Albion Rovers
Hamilton Accies
central 2
St Mirren
Morton
Dunbarton
Clyde
Stirling/Falkrik
Falkirk
East Stirlingshire
Stenhousemuir
Stirling Albion
Far North
Ross County
Peterhead
Inverness Caley Thistle
Elgin City
FIFE
Dunfermline
Raith Rovers
East Fife
Cowdenbeath
10 groups, 1st placed team qualifies plus 4 best runners up
Last 16
Or we make another two groups with 6 teams (those not in Europe) and we get a last 8 (quarter finals onwards)
Not a perfect system but a better alternative to allowing cheats to prosper.
But this gets you 2 of these games and if two teams progress you might get another one but if not two are covered.
Sky currently don’t cover the league cup but that is what negotiation is for and it would bring life to a poor tournament if truth be told. use it at the start of the season as it used to be to get the teams up to scratch for European games etc.
Everyone’s a winner
Then Rangers in whatever form play from Division 3 upwards benefiting the lower league sides’ coffers with their away support. This is truly for the good of Scottish football.
As for the remaining two matches – use the Scottish cup and guarantee Celtic must play them in a home and away tie in round 3 – away goals count like in a European tie. Celtic win with the better squad but Rangers (or whoever they are) have the opportunity and you can factor in honest mistakes into those games.
Sky currently cover the Scottish cup and will do so there should be no need to worry on that account.
4 games met – TV contract saved.
80 Million pounds spread over 5 years?
Rangers get their cut for the 4 games as is only fair but it is less than they would get in the SPL
They have no Euro Licence anyway so they should use the time to work their way up.
IF there is a will, reconstruct the league to get them back faster and all top flight sides get an equal split of TV money to offset losses and improve the their financial positions.
If there is a will for a 16 or 18 team league
You can have
Celtic
Aberdeen
Hibs
Hearts
Dundee United
Motherwell
St Johnstone
Kilmarnock
Inverness
Dunfermline
St Mirren
then add
Ross County
Falkirk
Partick Thistle
Hamilton Accies
Raith Rovers
Livingston
Dundee
This gives you a top flight with home and away AND gets them back up quicker and you still get 4 of these precious matches we only buy our season tickets for (or our subscriptions to Celtic TV if we live abroad).
If it is an 18 team league at the top, that leaves the possibility of a 12 and 10 team division 2 and 3 or a 22 team division 2. They get back faster in other words and serve their European suspension while their hordes benefit the lower league sides to the tune of handsome gate money from their away support. Sky can do pay per view if they want to make further money from Rangers fans and they get their cut of that money by getting none of the top flight’s money (other than their cup coverage cash). Fair is fair.
This is far from perfect but it is a better alternative to straight reentry and a debt free club allowed to start with a clean slate.
Get these messages out there if you agree and if you have any points to make about my idea, lets hear them but don’t let them get a free pass for cheating.
Ten Men Won The League says:
14 February, 2012 at 10:19
Does anyone know a Hun who IS reasonable?
___________________________________
Spot on mate,they deserve bitter.:O) unusually no typo.
CELTICBHOY 1023
Thanks,bud.
Only problem is that you refer to the original post from TWISTS N TURNS!
Wish I was so erudite,haha….
Yours is on a par though,so keep them coming.
I believe that in all this fiasco, Rangers have been particularly let down by two groups – the Scottish Media and Scottish referees. I almost feel sorry for them.
The Scottish Media, led by the B.B.C. have sat on this story for years and now they are trying to help them wriiggle out of their responsibility to pay the tax bill and other punishments along the way; Scottish Referees with their’honest mistakes’ have let them believe that they were a better team than they were. Hence their poor performances in Europe when they encountered fair referees, I think we would have won the league ;ast season if the referees strike had lasted longer.
It is important that we stick to-gether in these interesting times.
Must search this mine site for a hun…
This can’t happen when I have no huns
To abuse. Ah well at least it’s happening.
Jungle Jim @ 10:25
Ahh ! 100 yrs of unrepentent bigotry. So that’s what this “proud tradition” and “institution” stuff is that I keep hearing about on the news just now.
TBB
Is it so bad in a case of mistaken identity to be mistaken for the one who will ultimately be at the helm while they disintegrate ! I’ve just made you a hero man! Although whoi yuv gut taw pranawunce yor vawwels oan yon Duric gotteruck way oll navur naw.
Ayrshire/Galloway?Dumfries
Kilmarnock
Ayr United
QOTS
Stranraer
Annan Athletic
Dunbarton????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
DBBIA/SatNavCSC
Anyone know the details of the Club Deck rip-off scheme?
Got a hun mate denying it’s existence,so I’ll hit him with costs and redemption date,etc,if anyone has them.
Thanks in advance.
Does anybody know how much will be required to be paid to HMRC as a security bond to ensure that the pre pack administration route can be taken ?
Hail Hail
Lads,
new article posted
fleagle
a href=”http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/tax/9067416/Taxman-to-target-firms-who-avoid-debts-using-pre-pack-administrations.html”>Link to article
Taxman to target firms who avoid debts using pre-pack administrations
Tax officials have been given new powers to tackle rogue directors who avoid Crown debts by using controversial pre-pack administrations.
By James Hurley 9:43PM GMT 07 Feb 2012
From April, HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) will be able to demand a security from companies when the taxman considers there is a “serious risk” that the business will try to dodge PAYE or National Insurance Contributions (NICs).
The crackdown is targeted at business owners who deduct income tax and NICs from their employees’ pay packets “but have no intention of paying it to HMRC”.
The tax office said these companies often build up “substantial debts” and then use a pre-pack administration to set up a new, debt free business – a so-called “phoenix firm” – to continue trading.
Failure to pay the security – which can be a cash deposit or a bank bond – demanded by HMRC will be punishable with a fine of up to £5,000.
HMRC said that the new powers, an extension of rules used to tackle VAT dodgers, will “not affect employers who have genuine payment difficulties”.
Tax officials added that the “amount of tax at risk, the employer’s previous behaviour and other risks” will be used to determine the size of the security, but it will typically be either four or six months’ worth of income tax and NICs.
About 400 companies are expected to have to provide a security in the next financial year, HMRC said.
The move by follows a decision by the Government to scrap plans that would have overhauled pre-pack deals with measures designed to protect trade creditors from rogue directors using them to dump debts.
Pre-pack administrations allow firms that are about to collapse to be restructured and sold to new owners – often the existing management – without the consultation of unsecured creditors.
ooops
Link to article
SSN report that David Murray is scheduled to make a statement today.
Interesting.
My guess is along the lines of..
Bugger off,I got my quid,and it’s nothing to do with me.
HMRC applying for court to appoint an adminstator. Hahahaha the bluff didnae work Whitey!!
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/297509-hmrc-moves-to-put-rangers-into-administration/
“Aye if HMRC will talk to us we could get some agreement before we have to appoint an administrator”
WRONG!
HMRC will appoint the administrator. What’s not to like!
HM Revenue and Customs has lodged an application to put Rangers into administration.
On Tuesday HMRC lodged the order with the Court of Session in Edinburgh calling for the court to appoint an administrator.
The Court of Session confirmed to STV that the application is scheduled to be heard before a judge from midday on Tuesday. HMRC is due to make a statement on the steps of the court afterwards.
The move comes after the Ibrox club had lodged its own notice of intent to appoint an administrator on Monday. The court will now have to decide whether the administrator should be appointed by Rangers or the tax authorities – with important implications for the future of the Glasgow-based club.
Rangers are currently awaiting the result of a crucial tax case with HMRC, which owner Craig Whyte has confirmed could leave the club owing up to £75m.
On Monday, Rangers lodged its own notice of intention to appoint an administrator. This meant that Rangers had ten working days before having to call in insolvency experts to take over the running of the club.
My money is on the court appointing HMRC
What da ya think ?
Hail Hail
http://m.stv.tv/news/scotland/west-central/297509-hmrc-moves-to-put-rangers-into-administration/
My money is on the court appointing HMRC administrative choice
What da ya think ?
Hail Hail
I’m with you Awe Naw
NEW ARTICLE BHOYS
IOOOPS ALL OVER THE PLACE TODAY I WONDER WHY ? :_)))))))))))))))))))))))))
Got to thinking about the challenge facing the Administrator in cutting costs to match income, whilst completing the fixtures for the remainder of the season. It is unfortunate for the individuals (at the lower pay grades) concerned losing their jobs, however their cheese was moved sometime back, they just didn’t realise it.
Anyway, after a hearty breakfast and 3 sugars in the tea, the Administrator needs to start making cuts quickly, to ensure that Dignity survives, irrespective of the Big Tax case.
Immediate priorities will be:
Football Management:
The first team managment group instant dismissal with an under-19 coach taking over. Swally and Co may wish to work for nothing, but they will not be insured and will have to return the company cars.
Scouts such as Neil Murray and John Brown sacked.
Murray Park:
Expensive luxury for a club in this position, all staff working there to be sacked and the facility closed, with training to be conducted at Ipox or Toryglen.
First team squad:
All high earners , with priorities on the injured players, sacked. This means the following out the door:
Naismith (injured)
Whitakker (injured0
Lafferty (injured)
McGregor
Davis
Golan
Bocanegra
Edu
Papac
Under-19s and low paid players to fill the first team jerseys.
Oh, Cousins transfer to be dropped!
There is no telling what Dodgy Dave left Crooked Craig but it will be worse than anyone imagines …………. getting the books to balance (even without the BTC) will require an enormous cash injection from who?
I’m sure the numbers will start to leak out over the next few weeks and when the BTC hits them it will be like a tactical neuk , I would say at this stage unless Diginity find backers for say £50M then it will be Div3 playing with an under-19 team at Love Street.
Crystalballcfc
Taking a step back , breathing in.. Relax.
Objective assessment:
This about more than football. This is a potential watershed in Scottish Society. My old Tutor Tom Devine will doubtless be updating his ‘ History of Scotland’ as we speak.
I think short term there will be societal mayhem but easy benefits accrued by CFC. Longer term Society will see an end to the repugnant right wing supremacist and institutional anti Catholicism views that RFC generate and cause no end of harm to Scotland, predominantly but not exclusively to those living in West Central Scotland.
Longer term for CFC… I don’t know. I think RFC may initiate a house of cards. Hearts, DUFC to follow.
Easy uninterrupted access to European Revenue for the next 5 years provides the perfect springboard to better football but if the Board can’t propell Celtic forward to a better league in that timeframe I wonder what lies ahead long term.
The change is more than football but the changes for Celtic in football are critical.
GOD BLESS ST HUNO
Apologies if posted earlier.
Worth reading…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/14/rangers-administration-scottish-football
‘GG….ta for the NS YouTube posting ; illustrative for us expats. It was riveting stuff ; I expected Spiers to start greetin’ at any moment. Whe do you think the orc lynch mob get into full gallop and get a grip of Whyte?
And by the way,we do not need The Unclean….they have been a disgrace to football as far as I can remember,and I’m in my 7th. decade.
Their fans made me & my brother’s childhoods a regular nightmare….havin’ to battle with them on the way to PRIMARY school,for fuck’s sake!
May they rot in hell for all eternity.