All it took was one man, Eddie Smith, who joined the referees strike a year ago as their body became embroiled in allegations of lying, bullying and sectarianism, to make it his business to report Celtic fans to Uefa and the SPL, and the support are besieged on two fronts.
After decades of the police turning a deaf ear to illegal and offensive chanting elsewhere this might appear opportunistic, but Smith’s motivations are irrelevant. We have endured ‘the songs debate’ here for years, the only thing universally agreed upon is that as long as a single Celtic fan sings political songs at a game, this day would come.
I sincerely doubt that Celtic fans sing anything illegal, which perhaps explains why the police encourage observers to ‘police’ the stands, but no one denies many people, including a number of Celtic fans, find such singing offensive. There is, therefore, scope to mount an attempt to discipline the club, and an easy route to inflict reputational damage on each and every Celtic supporter.
The Debating societies will be exercised on the freedom of some to sing racially-hostile God Save the Queen, or the militaristic, Flower of Scotland, and wait for the reaction to what is euphemistically known as ‘the marching season’. In this vein I would encourage the Celtic delegation who meet Uefa next month read aloud a transcript of La Marseillaise, which becomes a logical target if Uefa prosecute our club.
I predict Uefa and the SPL will reprimand Celtic with a cease and desist-type warning which will include specific instructions to remove and ban ‘offenders’. Efforts will be made to prosecute ‘offenders’, which I expect will fail, but not before a few individuals are brought before the court.
Neil Lennon, Jock Stein and since Fergus McCann, the club, have asked fans not to sing political songs. Many agreed but some will not waver, so it would be an act of vanity for lesser mortals to suggest restraint. The slow train-wreck will happen.
Don’t take the notion that attempts to prosecute are likely to fail as legal advice. In my experience, lawyers become a lot less certain once proceedings are underway.
On a separate note, I was pleased to read Iain Blair of the SPL differentiate pro-IRA chanting from sectarian chanting. Lazy jounos everywhere take note.
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AndyMc1888 Andy Mc
17 year old is being released from polmont tonight , superb news!
10 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
FromTwitter, don’t know if it’s correct
Just one thing, how come our so called sectarian singing is top news and yet it was all hush hush when the Huns got their uefa ban???
I won’t go into further detail about the other issues today as most if them I share the same opinions
Scotland – The best wee bigoted country of them all
HH
Ernie
I stayed behind after the Hibs game and watched the police try to get into the green brigade again after the match
they followed them all the way along the north stand befor egiving up, I posted on here on my return from the match as did a few others..
Eddie Smith was made to look stupid and he has taken on himself to get his own back..
blantyretim says:
15 November, 2011 at 19:14
The XMFs. Mmmm, that may be asking too much of a commitment!:>)
blantyretim says:
15 November, 2011 at 19:20
‘Eddie Smith was made to look stupid and he has taken on himself to get his own back..’
Between that and the referee ‘strike’ I think we know what has motivated Mr Smith.
The Oranje Ordure is a needless diversion at the momemt.
While they are a horrible blight on civilised society……..we have an issue at hand to fight the false criminalisationof some fan’s actions.
By equating our plight with the monstrosity of the OO we position ourselves alongside Them.
Who would want to do that???
Ooooh dear I am in a bit if a quandary here
Now I know that the Republic are on the telly in half an hour in a Euro Championship qualifying game and I am heading out for dinner with the wife to a wee restaurant with no telly
I was just wondering if I fail to stay in and support the republic will that see me from precluded from the ranks of The Right Good Tims
Forgive me CQN for I am about to commit a cardinal sin an choose to go out to dinner
Has anyone noticed how the ‘offensive bill’ has already become enshrined in law BEFORE being accepted.
What the hell is all that about
How have they gone from not being able to touch us last season (and by god they will have wanted) to what they are doing now?
I have never heard of the ‘offensive’ thing before that summit – yet correct me if im wrong it hasnt been made law yet they are doing people left right and centre for it…
No am Neil Lennon 19.19
Do you know what happened to St John Ogilvie.Slan
Did the spl/sfa ever bring in the rule for offensive/sectarian
singing by fans,which would result in the dropping of points?
huns/admin 10 pts V Celts /who ate all the pies 12pts
Mickboy – a restaurant with a telly….?
Aye!
Paul67 et al
Apologies if it has already been asked. I realise it may not be possible to name the young bhoy involved, but can somebody name the Sheriff court in question, name the Sheriff in question and name the Procurator Fiscal in charge. I think we are entitled to know that much.
The club need to address the various issues quickly.
Looking at other sites a groundswell of opinion is growing to defend the club and our reputation, various CSC are pledging support for the 17 year old in prison…that just isn’t right.
I may add that opinion on weather the club are some way in cahoots with Eddie Smith and Paul McBride?
QC McBrides admission that Hibernian FC fans were singing sectarian songs also throws another club into the mix, who does Pat (growaspine) Nevin support?
Voguepunter says.
I like you am a very concerned Celtic fan, with everything that is going on at present. But as i said its a sad world we live in when all the talk is about everything but football. Lets all hope we can come through this and be stronger for it. Having said that i wonder what will be thrown at us next.
blantyretim says: 15 November, 2011 at 19:20
If Eddie Smith was made to look stupid then what’s he look like now? maybe we should ask his ex wife.
Mick says:
15 November, 2011 at 19:29
Haha! Wee Pat will be running out of teams to support!
PMcB is fast becoming the new Jimmy Saville, running all over the place talking pish. Why are genuine Celtic supporters getting involved in the songs debate? If you don’t like the song don’t sing it. I hate any song that mentions rangers, why give them attention? Let’s sing about our achievements and our history! Feck the rest!
kieran1888 says:
15 November, 2011 at 19:17
Does nobody feel that IRA songs shouldnt be sung??
Me – i dont think they should be sung. At the risk of going onto my high horse, i have never sung these type of songs, never will. Had i even tried, my father – as devout a catholic as you could ever find – would have battered me black and blue.
Plenty of songs to sing without the need to refer to the IRA’. Let the huns continue to embarrass themselves with their singing and behaviour. Until we stop it, there is no way we will get the support or sympathy of the Scottish public and zero chance of escaping this dying league for pastures new. If i was English and i heard that Celtic supporters sang songs glorifying the IRA, protest against the poppy (for the record, i have never worn one either) i doubt i would want them to join my league.
With free speech comes responsibility. I see a lot of people wanting the former and not the latter
davythelotion
Paul McBride QC has stated that fans of Hibernian FC have sung Sectarian songs, this will need to be addressed as well…it must be true
The Honest Cover-up
Have you ever watched Lord of the Rings?
Catch up later.
Totally disagree Bankiebhoy. The Orange Order needs to be held up for what it is on each and every occasion. This organisation which is accepted by the legal profession and politicians, and has individuals as members, should be the number one target for anyone wanting to eradicate bigotry, fascism and elitism, not football fans of one club. This scum has crawled our streets for generations fermenting their hatred of us in their young to propagate their bile for future generations. Each and every time our singing is debated we should point the finger back at this mob. Dont let them preach to us while this evil is tolerated. What about it Mr Salmond?
Squeeze the orange…
Illicit Singing Channel 511.
Just a thought.
Let’s speculate that Smith and Co knew who exactly who the young guy was well before they locked him up on the Friday morning.
By waiting to the Friday to do it leaving the boy to do a weekend ‘lie-in’ are they then guilty of a Conspiracy to Attempt to Pervert the Course of Justice in that they should have brought him before the court ( next lawful day)?
PF Ayr?
Paul McBride supports the SNP’s bill
Paul McBride, until last week. was a signed up Tory.
Paul McBride is a tube
hen1rik says:
15 November, 2011 at 19:17
Being saying for years if they want to stamp out sectarianism the first place they should start is the Orange order
Offensive,sectarian and illicit rolled into one.
I also advocate the singing of hymns, how long before being a catholic becomes offensive(officially).
Think Damian Duff enjoyed that rendition of his national anthem…
Brother Aidan…
Lets deal with what we have in front us now.
The OO can keep for the time being.
We are not talking about two halves of the same coin.
To equate our position by bringing in the OO now muddies the water, in my opinion.
The position we are in currently is so contrived as to boggle the mind.
If I may be permitted to ignore the songs debate… I see that big Dan is starting for Sweden tonight, as is Lustig. I shall be watching with more interest than I can usually muster for England games.
The Bleu Ordure is quite another matter though………………
Wull Celtic go fur Rhodes?
They Might..and then..
If they dae..wull it wull be the right Road tae Travel?
Oan the ither haun?
Whit?
Kojo.
Wee Pat will be distraught.
I await his stirring speech about how “IRA chants” drove him and his wee boy away from Easter Road.
Cheer up Pat, there’s always Albion Rovers…
Quid pro quo..
Old infirmity sanctioned by the bored (thanks Mags) their oversee a disgracefully inactive response
the wealth of evidencial statistics vis a vis the flagrant intimidatory and underhand reactive ploys used
In sledgehammer force to decry, divide and pummel the life out of any
suggestion the Huns hadn’t won their shitty titles in anything other than
dignified terms.
Well we are all now the more appraised their state of impending immolisation
Thanks only to good Celtic men like Paul67,Phil and RTC.
Them Hunpacked hyenas in their snarling gigglefest of succulent feasting
their prized Timmy prey might just have inadvertently left their themselves too
far exposed in their Jackal like gorging on a phantom corpse when a trophy sized
room of Gorilla proportions has been oozing putrid gore of olfactory scented pathology
that even a Jabba led sizable predator pack couldn’t ignore.
Fat piers
Lustig who seemingly we are interested at right back for Sweden along with big Dan against England Channel 993 Sky
The oranger order comments from certain users well said I’m on the case…
Quid pro quo..
Old infirmity sanctioned by the bored (thanks Mags) their oversee a disgracefully inactive response
the wealth of evidencial statistics vis a vis the flagrant intimidatory and underhand reactive ploys used
In sledgehammer force to decry, divide and pummel the life out of any
suggestion the Huns hadn’t won their shitty titles in anything other than
dignified terms.
Well we are all now the more appraised their state of impending immolisation
Thanks only to good Celtic men like Paul67,Phil and RTC.
Them Hunpacked hyenas in their snarling gigglefest of succulent feasting
their prized Timmy prey might just have inadvertently left their themselves too
far exposed in their Jackal like gorging on a phantom corpse when a trophy sized
room of Gorilla proportions has been oozing putrid gore of olfactory scented pathology
that even a Jabba led sizeable predator pack couldn’t ignore.
A very strange state of affairs.
HH
Has anybuddy read.. “Wolf at the Door” by Jack Higgins..(Sean Dillon.. Ex I.R.A man Series #17)
Noo.. Sean ,He wiz a Real Honest tae Guidness .. I.R.A. man.
As a matter of Fact.. Ah liked Sean a loater.
Kojo
Watching the news, I see that the Dow Chemical sponsorship of the Olympic Stadium is being challenged by those who believe that Dow, who bought Union Carbide 10 years ago, have a vicarious responsibility to the victims of the Bophal disaster.
I was a paperboy at the time. The following image, originally as I recall on the front page of the Sunday Times, has followed me for almost 30 years. Don’t click if you are sensitive.
http://newsjunkiepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/bhopal_raghu_rai.jpg
Emotion and instinct scream that the protesters have a point.
I think we’ve got to seperate out the two strands to the songs debate.
First of all – there are sinister forces at work that wish to harm Celtic, and are now using the (limited) singing of ‘offensive’ IRA lyrics as an opportunity to do just that. We may differ as to the extent of this (frankly I think some of us are going to extremes on here) and who is in cahoots with who, but I would estimate that 90% of us would agree with that broad statement. Of course, we know that these forces have been silent for generations about the more serious and more widespread vile, sectarian and racist bile spewed out by the hun hordes (the last League Cup final being a point in case). This is lamentable, unjust and infuriating.
Second – A minority of Celtic fans, mostly at away matches, DO sing or chant lyrics (‘add ons’) that proclaim support for ‘the IRA’/’the Ra’. I would estimate that now, perhaps unlike a generation ago, a significant majority of Celtic fans – and the club itself – wish these to cease. Many people find them distasteful or embarassing, and many simply feel that they are harmful to our club.
I feel that – for the moment – it is the latter issue we ought to focus on. I’ve been vocal and active in my condemnation of the huns’ behaviour for years, but I feel we can’t allow ourselves to become distracted by this for the time being. To do so is to risk indulging in ‘whataboutery’. We all KNOW who the real sectarian club is.
I feel that as a support it is time to come to a decision on this. I think the wishes of the majority should be respected. It’s not good enough to simply choose not to join in and say ‘it’s other people’s business what they sing,’ when really we are listening to people damaging the repute of our great club and support.
Some people will be won over by these arguments, and by similar ones from more articulate posters than myself, but there will remain a hardcore who will put themselves and their vanity before the wellbeing of Celtic. Ironically these are the types of provo-sycophants who style themselves as being ‘more’ into Celtic by taking an extreme political position. Maddeningly, most of them will be too young to remember the Troubles, and probably have no idea about the tragic human cost of that terrible conflict, for both sides. Indeed, Phil Mac Giolla Bhain recently alluded to an IRA man who treated the support from these celtic fans with complete disdain. These young fans will only change their behaviour if they are threatened with sancitons, such as being banned from attending Celtic matches, home or away. The club needs to take a stronger line on this, and this will cost money in terms of increased away stewarding, etc.
Guys, before you think I’m taking the establishment line – believe me – the outcome the huns LEAST want is for us to stop singing the reb songs. No matter what they say. If we stop, they will no longer have a stick to beat us with, and rankers will be left stranded on their island of hatred and bile. Can you imagine if this attempt to undermine our club backfires beautifully on the perpetrators – that we decided to use this negative as an opportunity and rid ourselves of the IRA baggage? It would drive them MAD!
The war is over, let’s put the ra stuff to bed.