Following yesterday’s article on the cosy relationship between the police and Scottish Government, who are alarming a remarkably wide range of society, a flurry of information has been passed back to me, including the following notes on the Integration of Scottish Criminal Justice Information Systems (ISCJIS) database. The First Minister has stonewalled requests to breakdown religiously aggravated crime, claiming the Crown Office have destroyed their records, but my source suggests the information is available for analysis in the ISCJIS database. I’m told:
“The material stored (in the ISCJIS database) ranges from simple conviction records, to DNA, and social status. The data is used primarily for presenting Criminal History in court cases, and in identifying suspects in criminal investigations. It is also used of course to measure the social impact of changes in Legislation and Enforcement Policy, as evidenced by the current furore. It will also be used to predict the impact of such changes, particularly as regards Equality and Diversity impacts, which is a statutory requirement of any proposed Legislation. You see, the ‘missing’ data is actually necessary in predicting the impact on Equality of the Offensive Behaviour Bill.”
“Essentially, if you want to know how many Section 74 Breach of the Peace convictions (Aggravation for Religious Prejudice) or even charges, there were at a given point in time in a given court, you simply search on the Breach of the Peace Conviction Code and add the modifier code ‘P’ indicating Religious Aggravation. All such offences are then returned, with full access (rights permitted) to the Reports and Case Notes.”
To assist the First Minister, below is information on what the enquiry form he has to complete looks like. This is a link to the operation manual and if he’s really stuck he can call the helpdesk on 0141-585 – 8333.
We can only speculate why the authorities are so reluctant to disclose information on, on a subject so close to their hearts.
Quick shout for the John Thomson Memorial Fund, which is benefiting from the sale of 60″ posters for the recent stage play, check them out on ebay.
OFFENCE AGGRAVATION
DEFINITION: The code for a crime or offence that adds to the Offence Code by highlighting particular circumstances relating to the specific incident as opposed to the actual charge.
DATA ITEMS: Crime/Offence Aggravator.
PERMISSIBLE CHARACTER SET: Code field – Alpha or Zero.
RANGES/VALUES: The code field is 1 character long and consists of an alpha code, which identifies the Aggravation to the offence committed. It is possible that a charge can have a combination of up to 6 aggravations. An aggravation description may be held in a text field within individual systems and will be an automatic expansion of the Offence Aggravation code into text to specify the nature of the Aggravation.
PRIMARY OWNERSHIP: ISCJIS – maintained by Crown Office.
CODES: Over page:-
CODE Aggravation Inactive indicator
Anticipated activation date
0 No Aggravation
A Anti Social Behaviour
B Offending whilst on Bail
C Cancelled
D Domestic Abuse
E Disability
F Football
G Football Banning Order
H Harassment
I Harassment Order
J Connected to Serious Crime Y October 2010
K Offence against a child
OFFENCE MODIFIER DEFINITION: The code for a crime or offence which provides additional information for the specific incident as opposed to the actual charge.
PERMISSIBLE CHARACTER SET: Code field. Alpha, numeric.
RANGES/VALUES: The code field is 4 characters long and consists of an alphanumeric code, which identifies additional elements of the charge. The code will consist of an alphabetic character followed by 3 numeric characters. If no modifier exists, 4 0’s (zeroes) characters will be transferred. An Offence Modifier description may be held in a text field within individual systems and will be an automatic expansion of the Offence Modifier code into text to specify the nature of the Offence Modifier.
PRIMARY OWNERSHIP: ISCJIS maintained by Crown Office
CODES:- See offence modifier codes. The current
definitions are:-
A For Class A Drugs
B For Class B Drugs
C For Class C Drugs
W For Weapons
L Breach of undertaking
Y October 2010
N Sexual Orientation
O Sex Offenders Order
P Religious
R Racial
S Sexual
Q Transgender
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Canamalar:
Yeah, all very well, but do you accept that the huns fiscal policies have caused the deaths of British soldiers?
:-))))
Night all…
(is an exhortation to let the people sing too much? Should it be ‘adapted’ to let ra peepil sing?)
Moonbeams WD. \o/ Kano 1000 Supporting Neil Lennon 100%. says:
13 December, 2011 at 23:31
The song in question was sung. Yes, it would be like going to court, but on a DD offence.
When you look in the mirror and dont like what you see, don’t buy a new mirror.
Celtic fans can resolve this ourselves, state what we’ll sing and the justification why and how it doesn’t contravene any football rules or laws of the land. Provide this to the Police, Celtic and the authorities. We will defend our right to sing what is on the list, they are not being sung with any aim to be offensive.
We should STOP asking for a list – decide our own destiny.
Many great posts tonight, not all I agree with but good seeing the debate.
hh
bjmac
The Battered Bunnet – looking good ! x
Read through quite a number the various arguments today with interest as with all things good about this blog some excellent points, some not so, some letting emotion take over from reasonable argument and some so extreme they were well lets just say bordering on the insane.
Giving up going along to Celtic Park to support the team because of the board stance on this issue, not for me, this club is about more than its custodians and any personal feeling I harbour for them. The team need our support this season, next season the season after that and after that.
For me, the one thing I take from all of this is that we can sort this ourselves bcause of who and what we are they on the other hand are beyond redemption.
Ceaser67 says:
13 December, 2011 at 23:57
long day mate
Nice one
canamalar we’re in this for the long haul, there are members/ people on the Celtic board who would be more at home at the ludge…….I’m tempted to post more but with respect to paul67 I will say only this…… this board are cowards IMO.
V
Should add – we should also state songs we won’t sing are NOT illegal
West Wales Celt says:
13 December, 2011 at 23:51
have you read any of my other posts?
did you not see the one about the fields will be the next target because they are offended by that? and that their friends in the paper and tv will fully back them with this?
that it will not go to Uefa because there is absolutley nothing in is, but will go to the SFA/SPL
there is ONLY 1 THING WE COULD HAVE GOT DONE FOR and it was the up the ra pish and we did get done for it
the up the ra pish which you keep highlighting?
i said it because there is no ra today – the ra i sung about was fighting for our freedom in the north
it is on ceasefire and in government here to now.
thats why i stated it was pish – we have been done for the ra’s that are about today not of yesteryear
and to me that is pish and it has sullied our name
Vmhan 23.55
Brill!! Get that played at C P. Ive emailed it to all my contacts. Let the people sing. I have a dream!!
CRC
Magic story!!!
Cannae believe yer wee bhoy found a St. Bjmac :-)
hh
auldheid..,
are you drunk ?
“By accepting the gotcha (and that gotchas happen)”
Accepting the gotcha is collusion ffs.
Quid pro quo/quod erat demonstrandum
aye/naw ??
your whole argument is based on the legitimacy of the charge
mic
Me too. Night all.
We have a problem lawwell!!
Not too long in the future, when the government will, with the full backing of the LL and the other media orcs, decide that anything relating to Irishness is offensive, and they start banging up young kids who support the club, give them criminal records, which in turn casts them to the scrap heap, and so it will go on.
Where does it stop ? when one of your kids/ grandkids/ nephews/ kids of friends get arrested ? will you then waken up ?
A wee funny. See every time I saw Kenny scorin I thought. Thems must be spewin!!
WWC,
good night
god bless
hail hail :oD
As a Celtic Support we have yet another attack on us, this time not by the orange order, laptop loyal, its an attack from inside our own club… when will they be satisfied? re-name us Celtic Hibs!
Many Rivers to Cross!
V
AntrimKev:
You recognise that this is not the beginning merely the start but you advocate acceptance and appeasement as the strategy?
Why are the letters ‘IRA’ the only thing that could get us done?
They are ‘illicit’ for no other reason than some find them offensive.
How would you distinguish this from the offense that some will no doubt take from the FOA?
If lawfulness is defined by universal acceptability then god help the different…
I also object to anyone, no matter from where they hail, describing republican songs as ‘ra pish’. That said I absolutely defend your right to choose such language, a courtesy you seem reluctant to extend to your fellow Celtic fans.
Good luck with your appeasement strategy…
Defo bed now…
Sabre67
As I said earlier.
I do not trust them.
I’ve always been a kinda doubting Thomas type person.
I want to see the evidence for my own eyes.
Show me the proof.
BJmac. Yes The Celtic Symphony was sung. But are you 100% certain from your vantage point that a sizeable majority of a small section of our support sang Oh AH Up The Ra. I did not hear it from my vantage point. It could have been Oh Ah Up The Bra; Oh Ah Up The Ska; Oh Ah Up The Celts; Oh Ah Up The Tories.
How many sang this. Was it 1, 10, 100, 1000, 10,000.
If on Thursday the song is sung again and Eddie Smith Zzzzzzooooommmmmmssssss in on 1 Celtic supporter in say 47,000 singing this. Does he arrest that person or report us again.
1. I want to see the evidence.
2. If it was a couple of hundred people then I want our board to defend the majority and appeal this rediculous fine (by UEFA standards).
MWD
this was the Lubo vid
a wee 15min gem for the catalogue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw2vcPK7POo&feature=related
Vmhan….,
sorry pal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRVXqeM1SEM&feature=fvsr
Canamalar: nos da…
MWD
I dont trust them. Why not? Ill catch you 2morro. lol
canamalar why apologise? its a crackin song……
it starts…. “Celtic win this game for me……… They’ve scored two but we’ve got four……”
copyright Vmhan!
V
JimmyQuinnsBits says:
13 December, 2011 at 22:47
pretty funny movie…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowfinger
Lets get some rousing tunes back at CP!
The Holy Ground – We Can Sing Our Own Songs!
V
HH
antrimkev says:
14 December, 2011 at 00:26
I think it is a lot more than what you are saying antrimkev to be fair.
Celtic must have this evidence that would have us disgraced all over Europe. Headline news paints a horrific picture, what if it is just 1 person in a crowd of several 10s of thousands?
Mwd
I don’t believe the argument is whether or not it was sung, it is more whether or not it was wrong.
Do you think we should sing up the ra?
Do you think it woild be a good idea for celtic fans to determine their own list of songs and then robustly defend our right to sing these?
Hope you’re well.
Sabre67 stoner outstanding posts tonight.
hh
bjmac
re ra songs
oh what will we sing now???
should we sing christmas songs??
or the songs in the chart the now??
NO we should sing celtic songs not ra songs celtic songs
antrimKev:
You seem determined to prevent my beauty sleep :-)
Please don’t use swearys on here; kids read what we right at this time of night in the cold light of day. CQN is one of the few places where f@”k is more offensive than Irish republicanism :-)
I’m going to quit using the word appeasement because I can see it upsets you.
I can’t say I think that your argument that chanting ‘up the ra’ could be mistaken for support for CIRA or RIRA rather than PIRA is especially convincing. Orcs et al aren’t fussy which republican army they find offensive; if only they would limit such proclivities to republicanism of any description!
We clearly are not going to agree. We’ve both had ample opportunity to expand our viewpoints. I suggest we agree to differ. If my reasoning proves unjustly paranoid you may remind me of tonight and I will acknowledge you were proved correct. Sadly, if I am right the consequences will be too depressing for me to be hassled with reminding you or, indeed for you to give the matter a second’s thought.
No doubt we will speak again on this. In the interim, good night and hail hail…
Vmhan..,
yer right, I was loosing the will to keep going, but you just reminded me that I am a Celtic supporter, not a plc supporter, my people where there at the start when it was a charity, when it move into private ownership and now mercenary plc hands.
The last thing they want to hear is me and mine.
The hun are done (copyright hunners a tims :o)
They are trying to make sure we do not go unpunished for what ever crimes they deem us guilty, I’m sure the board will accept, elaborate and agree with all charges and demand the guilty parties feel the full force of the state anti terror campaign in the name of the club, but not in my name.
I was ready to chuck it tonight :o)
hail hail
im fed up of this talk of ra songs, not going to see anymore matches, selling shares, etc.
lets just win on thursday, win the league, win the 2 cups, win the europa, sign diawara and hopefully get sammi to score a hattrick and also score from set pieces and penalties
Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire says:
14 December, 2011 at 00:10
auldheid..,
are you drunk ?
“By accepting the gotcha (and that gotchas happen)”
Accepting the gotcha is collusion ffs.
Quid pro quo/quod erat demonstrandum
aye/naw ??
your whole argument is based on the legitimacy of the charge
—————————————
As far as UEFA are concerned their rules have been broken. Their competition, their rules and so legitimate as far as UEFA are concerned.
If UEFA think the words were offensive and provocative how do we prove they are not? Deploy the same “its traditional” argument Rangers did to defend TBBs and keep on defying UEFA as Rangers did?
Sounds like a grand plan. Good luck.
petec I posted earlier,
IMO we’re talking about 0.1% of the Celtic support (although most if not all on CQN today said they never heard the ooh aah up the ra chant), this is where the cowards on the board have went wrong, its on international news that the Celtic support were singing illicit/ illegal etc songs, no defence by the board of Celtic Football Club(shame).
Are the comms team at Celtic Park up to it? I believe the person in charge is a hertz supporter, would you want a hertz fan looking after the good name of Celtic Football Club?
This isn’t rocket science but perhaps indicative of our general old firm direction……… we are the auld firm by the way it looks…. I’m asking the question of the Celtic board , are we the auld firm?
V
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD1T61oTrR8&feature=player_embedded
There is a lot of dark politicians All over this Democratic (bought and paid highly for) World.
Democracy was the access point to Blooter the Rights to All Citizens, no matter how long it took.
Just get that door ajar slightly and that is all that is required to run amok in the house Eventually.
Quick Quiz!
Rankers have won 4 of their last 6 League games; how many Penalty kicks have they received? and what games
where these Penalty kicks awarded?
Easy, I hear you cry! 4 Penalty kicks, one in each of their 4 wins :-)
auldheid..,
as I said earlier, the conduct of the match supervisor is questioanble, reporting hearsay he did not witness, is the crux of the matter. The line quoted by the board is not sung in support of any terrorist organisation is it ??
The line reported is neither political or illicit in the context of the song, therefore no valid charge exists.
But you the board and its claimed the majority of non meeja reading Celtic supporters are spouting the meeja propaganda ffs
get aff the vino and clear your head, grey areas only appear if you loose focus.
This is black and white, there are no grey areas, you either accept we are two sides of the same coin or you dont, no grey here.
Palacio67 says:
13 December, 2011 at 23:18
big chap
dunno if any soul responded to yer request
so ah’ll give it a go masel’
yep
Murray Park
skoosh case
last season i was there for the happy Celtic victory of 3-0 and the set-up was fair do’s
joint is located on a main countryside back-road with plenty car-parkin about 2-300mtrs from the entrance to the facility
the show-pitch is near the main entrance gate, say 40m and there is a wee pavillion near that gate where ye can grab a coffee / hot chocolate fae a machine – one o they 50pence jobs
as for the match itsel,
most folk all stand along the one side
didn’t see much segregation
folk were happy to mix n match
prob coz the rankers took such a roastin they kept thur gubs firmly shut
mibbe a wee bit more vociferous this forthcoming wekend – but should be a canter fur yer laddie and you
hope its on
and i hope
like am sure ye do too
that we roger them once again well and twoolly
at muwway pwark by milngwavie
:)
here’s a pic of the main gates and there’s a map there too…..
http://rfcyouths.wordpress.com/
also,
there was a steward there directin traffic to the nearby car park