Congratulations to Dundee FC who return to the top flight of Scottish football for the first time in seven years. Back in the 60s Dundee were a top European team. They won the league in 1962 and in the preliminary round of the European Cup they trounced West German champions, Cologne, 8-1 at Dens. Cologne put a more respectable face on the aggregate result two weeks later, winning 4-0 in front of 40,000 fans.
Dundee went on to beat Portuguese champions Sporting Lisbon 4-2 on aggregate in the first round proper, this while Portuguese runners-up, Benfica, retained the European Cup only five months earlier. If the Cologne result was the most enduring in the collective memory, the 4-1 win over Sporting at Dens was one of the all-time great results in Scottish football history.
Anderlecht were next victims, losing 1-4 in front of 65,000 fans in Brussels before the fairy tale ended in the semi final against eventual winners, Milan, at a packed San Siro. A Wembley final against Benfica was Milan’s prize, a tie Dundee would surely have fancied.
The result against Cologne is historically the most impressive but this was not the case at the time. This was a period before the Bundesliga when West German teams participated in regional leagues, with the winners playing-off to enter the European Cup. Once German teams were able to join a financially prosperous league instead of being shackled by historical custom, they never looked back. Dundee, like all Scottish clubs, are disenfranchised from the history they could be creating by the poor value of their TV market.
It’s time for a change, not just for the sake of Celtic! If only the guys running the show knew the history and heritage of the team promoted today, or believed in the potential of Scottish clubs.
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As much as i loathed the team who used to play at Ibrox, i have to admit they knew how to pick centre baks at times. Bocanegra anyone? I hear he is in between clubs at the moment
The initial defiant noises from the Sevco support about getting behind the new club that will be using Ibrox, will soon wane when it somes to watching their kids playing on a freezing cold December midweek up at Peterhead or Elgin.
Oh how I will heartily chortle seeing them struggle, and they WILL struggle, in some of Scotlands’s remote footballing outposts.
It would be a beautiful thing if Celtic could somehow make the Champions League group stages whilst they play blood and snotters stuff in the nether regions of Div 3.
Mr X
If we can have a decent CL campaign …that would just about finish the Huns off
gscbhoy (Kick them whilst they are down – REMOVE THEIR STARS!) on 16 July, 2012 at 22:01 said:
As much as i loathed the team who used to play at Ibrox, i have to admit they knew how to pick centre baks at times. Bocanegra anyone? I hear he is in between clubs at the moment
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According to Etims’ rumour mill we asked him and he said no.
HH
the long wait is over on 16 July, 2012 at 22:08 said:
Ach well, it will need to be Leonardo Bonucci then.
Having a decent CL campaign would be like putting that fabled hose in their mouth, some used to post about.
gscbhoy (Kick them whilst they are down – REMOVE THEIR STARS!) on 16 July, 2012 at 22:01 said:
I think the huns’ centre halfs always looked good as they played under different laws to ours. David Weir would have been a disaster playing for us, where his lack of pace, constant fouling, shirt-pulling and neck-grabbing would have been properly punished.
See Hutton, Cuellar, Boumsong and D Wilson for £30m worth of Hun superstar defenders who struggled when forced to play by the rules.
Mr X / PF Ayr.
agree 100%
Even without CL qualification the gap between us and old/new Rangers (or indeed vice versa) , wherever they play , will be greater than its ever been.
If we qualify for the group stages the starkness of the gap would be incredible and would dwarf anything that Moonbeams could ever have planned in his deluded attempts to leave us behind.
Due process is a drag :o)
Pujol on 16 July, 2012 at 22:18 said:
———————–
Excellent point , sir.
PFayr:
I know, but with ticketus out of pocket 25+ million, and as it stands looking like it’ll be at least fifteen years or so before they’d see a return on their outlay (if ever) then since they are a heavily burdened partner in the unholy alliance, why not just throw in another million, buy another’s licence, and get instant return. Or is that too simplistic?
FROM THE BBC:
The new Rangers’ admission to the Third Division could be in doubt over the Scottish Football Association’s demand that it accepts a transfer embargo imposed on the old company.
Ibrox chief executive Charles Green will meet the SFA on Tuesday in an attempt to resolve the issue.
“Without SFA membership, we can’t play in the Third Division,” said Green.
“They want to put some transfer embargo on us, but we can’t have that as we don’t have any players.”
Carlos Bocanegra, Maurice Edu and Dorin Goian are poised to leave Rangers with the blessing of Green, following the exits of several other first team players who refused to transfer their contracts to his company.
Scottish Football League clubs voted the newco Rangers into Division Three on Friday, rejecting a proposal by the SFA and Scottish Premier League to place them in the First Division.
The SPL, which previously rejected the newco application to replace the old Rangers, has now invited Dundee into the top flight and vowed to help smooth Rangers’ path into the lowest tier.
But the SFA must first address the issue of a prior transfer ban and £100,000 fine imposed on the previous regime for “bringing the game into disrepute”.
“There’s still a number of issues outstanding between Rangers and the SFA and we’re working on them now,” explained Green, who had been willing to shoulder the old club’s footballing responsibilities when bargaining for SPL, then Division One, entry.
“The problem is that we have been discussing them for some time.
Rangers crisis explained
“It is a balance between what is fair and what’s appropriate.
Rangers went into administration owing up to £134m to unsecured creditors and will
“We wish Dundee every success and we are
eventually be liquidated
now looking forward to reaching an
As a result its registrations with the Scottish
agreement with the SFA so that we can get on
FA and Scottish Premier League were
and start playing in the Third Division.”
Charles Green led a consortium which bought
Rangers are unable to play even pre-season
Rangers’ assets for £5.5m
friendly games without SFA membership.
The former Sheffield United chief executive is
However, the SFA has vowed to resolve the
reforming Rangers as a new company
outstanding issues with Rangers ahead of
But the ‘newco’ did not get the required votes
their opening fixture, away to Brechin City in
for re-admittance to the SPL
the Ramsdens Cup on 28 July.
Instead, the new Rangers will start life in
“Scottish football’s recovery process begins today,” it said in a statement.
“The board of the Scottish FA endorses the decisions made by the respective members of the Scottish Premier League and Scottish Football League to accommodate Rangers FC Newco into Division Three.
“The new season begins in less than two weeks and it is incumbent on the Scottish FA to conclude all outstanding issues relating to Rangers FC.
“To that end, we aim to meet with the club this week with the intention of achieving a satisfactory outcome for all parties so that we can focus on football in time for the new campaign.”
Meanwhile, SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster has said there is still the possibility of sanctions being levied as a result of the old Rangers’ administration’s behaviour in the transfer market.
Doncaster told BBC Scotland the SPL will now look at the Employee Benefits Trust scheme operated by the Rangers oldco and the possibility that players were improperly registered.
Pujol@2218
Spot on sir :)
Weefra HH
the long wait is over on 16 July, 2012 at 22:19 said:
I liked that last paragraph :-)
Could I have a number 1 please.
Oh and could you leave the front long and shape it like a bushy boomerang or a surprised eyebrow, thanks.
All outstanding issues to be dealt with before sevco kick off a week on Saturday including EBTS dual contracts dies anybody seriously think they’ll get stripped of titles ?
myboysnowatim on 16 July, 2012 at 22:12 said:
Having a decent CL campaign would be like putting that fabled hose in their mouth, some used to post about.
————————————————
Dont forget to turn the tap on :))))))))
Aye, you got me there.
Toibhoy67
I would fully expect titles to be stripped if they have been found to have cheated!
I would also expect Celtic to pursue for poss of earnings as well.
Regarding the real Huns losing titles due to possible improper player registration, anyone think this is a wish too far?
TBB from earlier
“2) Is Sevco Ltd really Rangers FC? If they are playing in blue shirts at Ibrox the fans of the team will maintain that they are Rangers FC, while mostly everyone else will recognise that they are not. It’s a semantic issue, not a substantial one.”
Cannot say that I go along with that. It was not a semantic issue when Airdrie United did not inherit the history of Airdrieonians as they would have wished but instead got the history of Clydebank, which was an unsought treasure and an unloved inheritance. They hide it away on their website but it is the Official SFA position that this is who they are.
Now, for the first time in a football share transfer we have the same fans and previously involved entities (Paul Murray, Ally McCoist & Gordon Smith- not to mention a high likelihood that Craig Whyte and Ticketus) involved in thissupposedly new club. We have Doncaster & Regan offering substance to their continuity argument and not taking a firm stance against.
This still smells like a fakeover and I remain to be convinced that allowing them their history so that we can apply sanctions is a wise way to go. I can foresee appeals, reductions of terms, suspensions of sanctions, and a general impermenance to anything agreed with these chameleons.
That is why it is not semantic, in the pejorative sense ( I always consider meaning to be important), but a question of fair play.
Authorities need to remove something of value to them in order to reflect the magnitude of what they’ve done. Officially removing their history will make a more powerful statement than stripping them of tainted titles. Many Celtic fans would be conflicted about being awarded their tainted titles and would prefer that they remain unawarded. Their fans will still count them just as Juve’s do.
Your solution is to attempt to hogtie them and render them powerless for a long time to come while we earn our rewards free from their cheating actions. I have seen too many B Movies to trust to this approach. I don’t want to be facing their surprise attack after we thought they were clearly dead.
Stake through their heart, silver bullet through it too. Encase them in a lead lined coffin, put that in a rocket and aim it for the dead heart of Hell. I might sleep a few nights securely then.
Poss = loss.. Bloody iphone
myboysnowatim on 16 July, 2012 at 22:36 said:
Absolutely not. It’s been beyond my wildest dreams so far – why stop now?
Pujol on 16 July, 2012 at 22:18 said:
Agreed Weir was a dud, particularly in the last few years but the likes of Bocanegra were good, solid defenders, something we have struggled to have for a while. Whilst i like a cntre back who can step into midfield and make a pass, first and foremost, they should be able to defend and that is what the Huns always went for
Talking of huns, is it still allegedly illegal to use such terms now that the team from Ibrox no longer exists (and soon wont exist in any form)?
Truth1690 and supersammy very quiet these days ho ho ho!
toibhoy67, 22:26
Yes, it will to happen.
Initially going back to 2000 certainly and perhaps 1998 and then, on the back of new tax and fraudulent accounting investigation, they will be investigated going back to 1988. How that pans out remains to be seen and will take longer but I would say from 1992 onwards will be troublesome for the ghost of them
Reports coming in, state that Charles Green leaving Ibrox tonight
” booted a dug “
O.G.Rafferty on 16 July, 2012 at 22:40 said:
Let the fun begin…
Dead and Loving it on 16 July, 2012 at 22:40 said:
Ohhhhh – now I don’t want to go to bed!!!
Sparklegirl,
Agree with you but I still can’t believe what has come about up to now.
They must’ve been a bad club in a past life.
gscbhoy
As you know, Huns even used to call themselves Huns, until a mixture of whataboutery, faux-outrage and collective victim-mentality suddenly sectarianised the word. Despite that, it was never made illegal.
And soon they will be gone for ever. Happy, happy days :-)
Good Evening.
I am a great believer in the notion that reams of statistics never ever tell you the full story about anything, no matter how impressive or convincing any such set of statistics may be.
So to prove that notion, here are a set of statistics:
Joe McBride scored 24 league goals in 57 league appearances for Kilmarnock.
Joe McBride scored 9 goals in 25 appearances for Luton Town
Joe McBride scored 31 goals in 59 appearances for Partick Thistle.
Joe McBride scored 51 goals in 88 appearances for Motherwell
Joe McBride scored 88 goals in 94 appearances for Celtic.
Joe McBride scored 44 goals in 67 appearances for Hibernian
Joe McBride scored 8 goals in 20 appearances for Dunfermiline Athletic.
Joe McBride scored 5 goals in 12 appearances for Clyde FC.
Let’s add some more statistics.
As a Hibs player he was the club.s top scorer in both 1968-69 and 1969-70. When he joined the Edinburgh side, he scored on his debut against Rangers, grabbed a hatrick in the following game against Lokomotive Leipzig, and followed this with 4 goals in his 3rd game against Morton. He later went on to score another Hatrick against Malmo!
Ok maybe one more statistic:
Joe McBride played in 55 League games for Celtic, and in those 55 league games he managed to score just………. 54 times!
Now, what do all those statistics mean? What do they tell us?
If your answer to the question is that Joe McBride was a goalscorer then go to the back of the class, because it hardly takes Sherlock Holmes to make such a deduction, as it is as plain as the nose on your face.
That he was amongst the best goal scorers to pull on a Celtic shirt is also not in doubt. For those of a more recent generation stop and consider this:
Henrik Larsson scored 325 goals in 573 club appearances,where McBride scored 226 in 383 appearances. Larsson goal tally spanned 19 years, McBride’s spanned 15.
Larsson stands 5’10” tall, Joe was 5’8″.
Larsson won the Golden Boot– Joe would have won it instead of Gerd Muller in 1966/67 had he not been injured on Christmas Eve 1966 meaning he missed the rest of the season. At least that was the view of…. eh….. Gerd Muller!!!
Yet all of these impressive statistics still do not tell anything like the full story.
The short and the long of it is that such impressive statistics simply tells you that Joe McBride made any team that he played for better. The better the players around him the better Joe played. The better Joe played, the better the players around him became.
The goals per game record is impressive at every single club, no matter what the standard, no matter who played around him, no matter who played against him.
Kitalba posted links to a few old games that featured Joe a few days ago, and it is against that background that the true worth of Joe McBride is to be considered.
Remember that in season 66/67 Rangers reached a European Final and the likes of Hearts had strikers of the calibre of Willie Wallace and Donald Ford in their ranks, neither of whom were second rate Goal Scorers— yet Joe topped the lot.
Yet at Celtic Park, Joe McBride played in a team that offered goals from just about everyone with perhaps the exception of Faither Simpson and Sweeper Clark. Playing with a great team, Joe met every challenge.
That Stein made him his first signing is often trotted out as yet another statistic– yet it is a fact that hides the truth— and that truth is that every other Celtic player– no matter their position, no matter their ability, no matter the opposition, grew into a belief that if they got the ball up front then Joe McBride would score.
That belief brought a confidence which remained no matter the calibre, the nationality or the reputation of the opposition, and in many respects once the squad that Stein had assembled had that confidence running through them like a stick of rock– a confidence that McBride was crucial in installing—then as a unit they were a match for any team in Europe, including Inter Milan.
I last saw Joe McBride at the League Cup Final sitting with Dixie Deans and the ever smiling Bobby Lennox. He was just a man among friends, wearing a Celtic blazer, hoping for a Celtic win.
I also recall seeing him standing in line at Barcelona airport after we knocked them out of the Uefa Cup. He was standing with his grandson ( I think ), but even looking at this older Joe with white hair you could see that he had the gait and stance of a footballer. No matter his age– he just looked like a footballer.
No, statistics will never tell you the full story of Joe McBride the footballer, father, husband, Grandad, friend, acquaintance or whatever.Statistics never tell the full story of any human being and their endeavors. However, I will leave you with one last statistic, one cold hard fact which is perhaps the most impressive of all and against which any member of the Celtic family ( young or old ) should measure Joe McBride the player.
That statistic is this:
That in a Squad that contained
Simpson
Craig
Gemmell
Murdoch
McNeill
Clark
Johnstone
Chalmers
Wallace
Auld
Lennox
Hughes
O’Neill
Gallagher
and Johnny Divers
A fit Joe McBride started…….. and someone from the squad above didn’t!
Now that fact tells a story!
A personally wouldn’t want them the record books should be left blank so our kids ask why in years to come and it’s never forgotten !
And on sevco media as if they’ve not done enough damage there suggesting boycotting small business,s who sponsor spl teams as they’ve realised they can’t do much to bigger company’s and they also think its time ” to do a Manchester ” a think social unrest is on the cards especially if the titles come off !
Have DBO take up residence yet, the 28 days is up
starry plough, 22:42
Oh it has already – and may it run and run
Just went for a lurk on fumble fumble..
They don’t seem to have updated their “current league table” which seems to show them 3 divisions higher up than sevco fc currently reside!
Who wants the pleasure of telling them? Hope they can spell Ramsdens..
•-:¦:-•** -:¦:- sparkleghirl :¦:-.•**• -:¦:-• on 16 July, 2012 at 22:38
said:
myboysnowatim on 16 July, 2012 at 22:36 said:
Agree with you both we have to see this through only fair on those teams players and fans who have been cheated. Those rangers players who have benefited from getting away with paying the tax they owed and picked up medals while all this time pretending everything was up front have to be shown for what they are.This goes to the heart of things.Too many for too long cheated. It has to go into Europe too. Clubs that have lost out to rangers sides who played ineligible players will want their pound of flash too.
The only way to convince the followers of Newco that they cheated is to get it into the history books that they were caught and titles transferred to thei rightful winners like the late great Tommy Burns.
Even making the titles null and void would have them clamouring that they belonged to them just like Juve.