It all seems a bit cloak and dagger to suggest that pyrotechnics are smuggled into football grounds inside flags and banners. I’d always assumed the ‘stick it up your jumper’ technique would have been the delivery mechanism, not that I’ve any experience of the subject.
Flares have been an increasing menace at football games across the UK in recent years, including earlier this season at a Europa League qualifying game at McDiarmid Park, which passed off without mention in the media, but police have previously limited their interventions to lectures and the occasional arrest.
Football clubs are dependent on Police Scotland for safety licenses for games, and in their wisdom, the police have determined this action will remove one method of entering a stadium with pyrotechnics and discharging them without detection. The ‘stick it up your jumper’ technique remains, as does ‘light it while pretending to tie your laces’. Jumpers and tie-up shoes are the real enemy here.
This is an arbitrary over-reaction to the criticism Police Scotland came under for failing to properly police the vandalism at Fir Park, it will not prevent anyone intent on letting off flares inside a football ground from doing so. Over-reacting after under-policing is a well-known phenomenon. Going after flags and banners feels provocative. Coincidence?
You’re likely to find out if you’re in a provocative mood on Thursday; Police Scotland will know that provoking a crowd seldom quietens things down. The reaction to Fir Park made me hopeful that we’d seen the last flare from the Celtic support, now who knows? We’re deep in muscle flexing territory here.
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Diplomacy. One can shout and abuse on line but in the real world a different tack has to be used.
BRT&H,
just received my CQN Annual in the past post prior to Xmas this morning. Xmas is celebrated on the 24th rather than 25th, so it arrived in a very timely fashion.
Thanks for your efforts. Merry Xmas & HH!
Gerry
“We had a collective agreement in place with both St Johnstone and Celtic following a pre-ops meeting held at McDiarmid Park last Friday. Celtic were represented at safety officer level in discussions regarding effective policing measures. The club signed up to the previous joint statement.”
Total and utter lack of trust and faith in this board now.
Wishing Paul67 and all the CQN gazebo dwellers and golfers all the best for Christmas.
Aff oot before this blog does my nut in once and for all.
Good morning.
I would say “be careful what you wish for” to those who want the Club to wade in here.
I wrote about this over a year ago and nothing that has happened since has changed my mind: the Salmond administration is attempting to politicise Celtic in an attempt to win over some of the Hun vote.
Think about it.
If you were in Salmond’s shoes or one of his strategists, what would you do to win over the Rule Britannia/ God Save The Queen “loyalists”? Remember the adage – the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
So Salmond is going after Celtic in the hope the Hun hatred of us is greater than their love of the crown. If the Club stray in to the realm of politics it will have walked in to a trap.
It will probably not work, but it is Salmond’s only hope. So be prepared for things to get worse before they get better, but be careful what you wish for. You may end up with an independent Scotland.
Have a lovely Christmas.
SILVER CITY 1888
Diplomacy?
My backside. It gives carte Blanche to those who accuse us of things we haven’t done,and wildly exaggerate when we do actually commit wrongs.
They get away with it,the accusations increase and become wilder.
Some of the stuff in the press,which should have been repudiated by OUR board,have grown legs and become accepted fact.
They are a shambolic disaster,craven,and need to remember why they are there.
And it is not to appease our enemies.
I’m offski. Driven to drink again….
Again I never wrote this, I copied it a while ago and pasted it form Don’t Let It Be Forgot.
———————————————————————————————
And they Gave us James McGrory….
‘Jimmy, it’s time to get up,’ whispered Harry McGrory in his soft Donegal accent to his sleeping son. Sometimes he hated waking the boy up. He was surely happier in his dreams than he was facing the harsh realities and grinding poverty they faced each day in Glasgow’s tough Garngad district? Young Jimmy opened his eyes, smiled at his Da and then, remembering that today was to be the day of his brother John’s funeral, his smile faded. ‘What time are we due at St Roch’s Da?’ he asked quietly. ‘An hour or so to go yet son so get dressed and have a good wash. Put on your school clothes. Yer Ma is making some breakfast in the skullery.’ As his Dad left the room, Young Jimmy got up and glanced out the window of the tenement they lived in at 179 Millburn Street. The street was quiet and the old buildings, blackened by the soot of industry and the nearby Gas Works, looked dilapidated and dirty. He dressed quietly and before leaving the room sat on his bed, closed his eyes and prayed for his brother John, lost to meningitis just a month after his first birthday. ‘Jimmy, your breakfast is out son,’ called his mother from the skullery jolting him out of his prayers. Jimmy opened his eyes, blessed himself quickly and headed for the smell of toast which wafted through the chilly flat. His Mother looked him over as he entered the kitchen, ‘Yer looking smart son, we’ll get you some boots before winter.’ Jimmy glanced down at the frayed school uniform and sandshoes he wore every day. It was not in his nature to complain as so many of the boys at St Roch’s Primary school were worse off. Some even came to school barefoot in the better weather. The McGrory family finished their breakfast and slipped out of the flat for the short walk down the hill to St Roch’s. Neighbours nodded at them with solemn faces, ‘Sorry for your loss,’ said Dan Murphy, shaking Harry McGrory gently by the hand, a sad look on his face. Others stood in silence as they passed, a few blessed themselves. The sad walk of the McGrory family was one which many families in the Garngad had made in those hard years after World War one. Infant mortality in such areas was a national disgrace and as always, the poorest carried the heaviest burden.
They entered the Church and Jimmy saw the little coffin waiting for them by the altar. Tears welled in his eyes for little John but also for his parents. He glanced at his father who sat to his left, eyes closed, rosary beads in his hand. Decent, hard-working Harry McGrory, a man who signed Jimmy’s birth certificate with a cross because he couldn’t write. A man who laboured and sweated for more than 60 hours a week in the Gas Works to try and feed his family. His mother, Kate McGrory, prematurely old due to the wearying effects of poverty and child bearing sat grim faced and stoic. Her faith in God helped carry her through her troubles but losing a child is always a heavy blow. Whisps of grey flecked her hair and care lines ploughed her proud Irish face though she was still not yet 35 years old. Young Jimmy didn’t know then that he would lose her too before his twelfth year was over. He sat quietly in the rapidly filling Church and glanced at the image of Christ on the cross suspended high above the altar. ‘Help me,’ he whispered quietly to his God, ‘help me to help them.’
20 years later….
England brought their formidable team north to face a Scotland team which though often erratic was capable of occasional brilliance. The crowd packed into Hampden that day was given as 134,710 but this figure didn’t include the thousands of boys ‘lifted’ over the turnstiles to gain free entry. The scores were tied 1-1 and a titanic struggle ensued as both teams sought the winning goal. The excellent Bob McPhail of Rangers sent a fizzing shot whizzing just over the England bar and the packed bowl of Hampden growled and roared sensing Scotland might just snatch a winning goal. With six minutes remaining McPhail drove towards the England goal and saw his strike partner pulling left to make space for him. Instead of shooting though, the adroit McPhail pinged a perfect pass to his strong running team mate who controlled it instantly and stepping inside the English full back found himself through on goal. The crowd roared. This was the moment of decision. The tall, muscular English goalkeeper Henry Hibbs rushed out at the attacker to deny him time to think only to find himself outfoxed as the blue shirted Scot lobbed him with a deft left foot chip. The ball arced through the air as 134,000 Scots willed it into the net. The roar which greeted the goal was described as deafening by commentators of the day. The scorer of the goal which gave birth to the Hampden roar was James Edward McGrory of Celtic FC. The little boy born into poverty in the Garngad was the toast of Scotland.
Jimmy McGrory was simply the greatest scorer of goals in the history of British football. He amassed an incredible 538 goals in 534 professional appearances for club(s) and country. Most of these goals were scored for his beloved Celtic. A club which under the autocratic Willie Maley paid McGrory far less than he was worth and shamefully tried to sell him to Arsenal without his knowledge or consent. McGrory remains to this day Celtic’s all-time top scorer with 410 goals, a record that surely will never be surpassed? He played in an era when Celtic had lost supremacy to Bill Struth’s powerful Rangers team but he still found the net with astonishing consistency. That he earned just seven caps is perhaps testimony to the good strikers around at the time although many, including his friend Bob McPhail, were embarrassed at his exclusion from the Scotland team at times. Others muttered darkly about Celtic men being overlooked unfairly because they wore the green. The game of the 1920s and 30s was a lot tougher than the modern game. McGrory lost count of the number of times his nose was broken by the heads of aggressive centre halves but he fought hard for his goals and gave as good as he got. This normally gentle and devout man became a fearsome warrior once he crossed that white line. However, he also set the highest standard of sportsmanship and shook the hands of even the most unscrupulous defenders once the game was over.
McGrory’s 20 year spell as Celtic Manager (1945-65) coincided with a frankly dreadful era for the club. Yes there were moments of genius and delight like the Coronation Cup victory of 1953, the League and Cup Double of 1954 and the never to be forgotten 7-1 demolition of Rangers in the League cup final of 1957. But Celtic fans in that era lived with a board which regularly sold their best players, paid relatively poor wages for such a big club and had, in Bob Kelly, a Chairman who picked the team and undermined the manager. McGrory, the gentle boy from the Garngad didn’t possess the nasty streak necessary to succeed as a Manager or indeed the temperament to stand up to the autocratic Kelly. Bertie Auld said of him ‘He was the most decent and honest man I have ever met.’ Nice as those words are, they don’t describe the qualities a top manager requires to succeed in the tough world of professional football. In 1965 a tired McGrory stepped aside and allowed a new man with new ideas to take the helm. The new manager told his Chairman that team selection would be his decision and his alone. The new manager had the steel, presence and ability to mould the talented young players developed under McGrory at Celtic Park into a formidable team which would restore the club to greatness. His name was Jock Stein.
James McGrory had managed Stein in his playing days and knew his abilities to organise and inspire. He also knew early in 1965 that it was time to let go, time to let Jock take control. His role as Public Relations officer kept him involved at his beloved Celtic Park as the Stein era commenced. Everyone, including Stein, referred to him as ‘Boss’ and treated him with the respect he was due. With Celtic marching on to a dominance in Scotland that would last a decade, Stein guided them to the 1967 European Cup Final. McGrory travelled to Lisbon having lost his brother Harry shortly before the final. When the game was over and Stein’s immortal team had written their page of glory in Celtic’s history, an emotional McGrory was passed the big Cup by Jock Stein. He says in his own words that he just sat there holding the trophy and crying like a child. Perhaps this great Celt was overjoyed that at last his beloved team had rediscovered their greatness. Perhaps he was also reflecting on those no longer around to enjoy this triumph.
Postscript
‘Jimmy,’ shouted his sister to the young player walking from the Garngad to Celtic Park for training. ‘Don’t be giving all your wages away today eh?’ He smiled back at her, ‘I’ve only got a few bob on me, will you stop worrying.’ She looked at him, a wry smile on her face, ‘Get the tram home then if it’s raining.’ They parted and young McGrory, Celtic’s new hotshot striker continued the walk through the streets of depression hit Glasgow to Celtic Park. There would be no tram home after training though as every beggar and down at heel Glaswegian who asked him for a copper was met with a patient smile and couple of coins. By the time he reached Celtic Park McGrory had not a penny in his pocket. It was not an unusual occurrence.
Jimmy McGrory was a decent man. A humble and devout Christian, who demonstrated by example rather than preachy words how to live a good life. If his incredible prowess as a striker was not matched by his achievements as manager of Celtic then we can forgive him that. Like us, he loved Celtic deeply and gave 100% for the club. We are honoured to count such a good man and such a splendid player among the lists of Celtic Legends. Those of us too young to have seen him play should still consider his goal scoring record with awe. We should also respect a decent, honest man who was a truly great Celt.
Sleep well Boss and Thank You.
James Edward McGrory (April 1904 –October 1982)
Celtic Legend
Garngad Man,
67Heaven:
Oh it’s not all that confusing is it….
I just see dead people.
Salmond is a snake oil salesman. I recognise that one of the big advantages of independence would be being able to set our own interest rates. One of the reasons the 80s were so bad for Scotland was, when London was overheating, we were burdened with high interest rates. Why on earth would Salmond want us to keep the Pound? He is just appealing to the keep the Queen crowd. On that matter, I don’t really mind having a monarch but if I was starting my country from scratch….
See those stories I’ve copied and pasted from Don’t Let It Be Forgot, some people relate to them, some people lived them, some people still do, some huns mock them, some institutions are embarrassed by them, Celtic don’t pay near enough homage to them, and for others, they are just stories.
The blogger formally known….
Good post, more or less what I have been saying for the last two days, ITS A SET UP, time for calm and doing the right thing here, some of the posts are a little mischief making , and kind of knee jerk reactionary, post as many ideas as we can, but the usual board and PL slagging are of no help here, that’s just an every day thing for some in here they can’t help it, screw the nut and rise above it, the Celtic way.
SSN banging on about the “statement” and that negotiations still ongoing but ban still in place. They are having a laugh at us for contacting the “wrong” club. Scum indeed.
For every 5 chairs they break, we’ll break 10…………
Great chat on the flags……..and I think the whole blog may have has been duped. There will be a few lurkers on here reporting the mayhem this has caused back to base FF, not sure if anyone has any info their take. I have a few thoughts on this
1. It has all been a big misunderstanding.
2. It is a more sinister move were by a government/ agency say they plan to do one thing, when all along the intention was do another while giving in to the protesters who think they have won a battle or action that was never going to take place (Then your guard drops). A diversion. The propaganda machine over the river could been in contact with butchers apron colleague at PS (Maybe the ones who tried to identify who at HMRC were investigating their club) to produce smoke, mirrors and distractions in an attempt to create a tense atmosphere at St Johnson in the hope that things would kick off, allowing the riot boys to wade in…………this would be great news over the coming week and even better, it could help bury bad news, now what could that bad news be. Someone on here said there was information about a concern with a club regarding PAYE and HMRC for this year end.
I am out the country over Christmas working and wish each and every one a Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year. But most of all, if you are one of the faithful travelling up to Perth, have a great time and be safe, you will be ambassadors for the club and the Celtic way, ignore provocation as it will only harm the club and give the SMSM additional opportunities to print ant-celtic dross. Hail hail.
IT’S YOUR POUND.
Give your pound to the SPL and those that hate you or give YOUR POUND to Mary’s meals and kid that will live but who’ll never know you.
Which is more important.
Your conscience, your choice.
Top of the morning to you all from a wild and windy West Fife.
Latchford 08:35 on 24 December, good points but MacAskill and Corrigan didn’t praise the huns for 90 mintes. ET played and it was 120 minutes counting intervals presentation etc more like over two hours of bilious bellowing!
Ronnie Hawthorn was at the first and second meetings of JAG (March and June) when a preview of the OB Act was given and the following meeting of July when FoCUS was formed on the initiative of Celtic, Rangers, SFA, SFL & SPL.
I have always thought of it as House’s brainchild but wonder if Ronnie Hawthorn was his proxy on the footballing team which were accredited with FoCUS?
I don’t believe the rumour that at the 2nd meeting (see link) House told Ronnie he wanted a single force of coppers and Ronnie came back with a single fish supper!
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/254430/0119851.pdf
This being the season of goodwill to all men it is nice to note that Chic Brodie MSP, Deputy Convener of the Public Petitions Committee of the Scottish Parliament wants to include the Saint Vincent de Paul Society on my PE01491 (JudgesMasonRegister) petition, along with the Orange Order and Freemasons etc.
He also includes the P2 (Propaganda Due), a banned Italian Masonic lodge, which seems a bit odd as I am already calling for Masons to register.
Perhaps he is anti-Italian and anti-French?
Can’t think of any other reason to want these organisations put on to my petition can you?
the blogger formerly known as gm
09:08 on 24 December, 2013
There certainly is something strange going on…
kdc
08:32 on 24 December, 2013
Boxing day quiz. If 167 seats cost £10, 000, how much did it cost Celtic FC to put 60,000 in Celtic Park
———————————
Interesting question that you have posed their Sir…very interesting indeed.
Going by my own quick/rough calculations,it cost somewhere in the region of £37million to put 60,000 seats into Celtic Park @ Fir Park prices.
Somewhat extraordinary,I think you’ll agree.
Somebody a few days back wondered what Tommy Burns would say…
What would Robert Kelly Say?
What would Jock Stein say?
What would Jimmy Johnstone say?
What would Bobby Murdoch say?
What would Brother Walfrid say?
What would they do?
Feed the poor, or feed the greedy, or feed the haters?
I can’t speak for any of them… I just wonder.
So are we allowed flags or not? At any game? Ever?
The whole thing is a mess – and typifies the way Sottish football is administered. You can bet that if a certain new third tier club was involved the SFA would be wading in now calling for the whole thing to be sorted out.
Morning cqn
got to agree with sixtaeseven on the part that we should boycot st.johnstone game now.our fans are and will be targets for police scotland at this game and many others.it helps cover up the goings on with the klan and snp’s voting for indi ref.and our bored are playing along with it.
I must say
the atmosphere at Celtic park for the hertz game was a strange one indeed a mixture of going out of europe no gb and the problems with that issue and the lack of quality of opposition made it a strange occasion indeed resulting in a very poor crowd..still glad we won and i was there to see it including james forrests late goal when there were more seagulls in than fans st that point hh
Big nan
Did he also ask about popular 80’s music beat combo the ‘sisters of mercy’ to be added to petition.
kitalba
09:15 on 24 December, 2013
Hahahahahaha….brilliant……i just like reminding them
It was Christmas eve in the workhouse.
Celtic say yes, Police say no.
The Daily Record has a Sevconian copy fest.
Eejits in the Celtic support, blame the club.
Plus ça change
Celtic as a club can bring this whole over zealous policing issue to a head by simply refusing to handle away tickets and telling the support not to attend. In doing this they should go public on the reasons why they are taking this course of action. The club should engage all supporters organisations and get their full backing.
Obviously tickets have already been sold for Perth & Inverness so the club boycott should begin in the new year with the St Mirren game, then the 2 Edinburgh sides after that.
Police Scotland, and the real organ grinders, the SNP administration, will then be forced to listen. Money talks, in fact in Scottish football it screams and as we enter a year where the country votes for or against independence the last thing the SNP needs is a public feud with the country’s biggest football club.
Won’t happen of course, seems that Celtic as a club are generally in favour of Police Scotland’s litany of actions against their support.
Does Celtic have a PR department? Do we employ someone, or an agency, to handle our PR?
It seems like we have no one, we are continuously on the back foot and reacting to events rather than being proactive and setting the agenda in Scottish football. Or worse still, we don’t react at all and let all sorts of crap being flung at the club go unchallenged.
St Johnstones call to ban flags and Celtic/Polis eagerly went along.
St Johnstone can knock this on the head today if they want to. If they don’t then Celtic fans should boycott and demand refund.
Morning Celts, if there’s anything to take from this shambles it’s that we come to realise that a Celtic boycott is one powerful tool we can use, a boycott will make the law erm makers realise they will have nothing to police if they carry on with as they are.
Mobi on 2% so hi to Estadio and good luck twisty.
Hope the bus driver doesn’t turn up at Inverness on Thursday!!
DJBEE
09:43 on 24 December, 2013
Big nan
Did he also ask about popular 80′s music beat combo the ‘sisters of mercy’ to be added to petition.
…………………………….
Worrying thing is that if the Convener is ill or away, this is the man who would be in charge of the Public Petitions Committee.
Little wonder he has never won an election. He is in office by virtue of the PR system having lost the three elections he has stood in.
Best wee………..
ASonOfDan
09:50 on 24 December, 2013
‘St Johnstones call to ban flags and Celtic/Polis eagerly went along.’
####
Pound to a penny plod suggested the flag ban, not St Johnstone.
Just as plod suggested to the local Tesco that they shouldn’t sell alcohol to Celtic fans.
Plod need to be told that they are public servants, not masters.
Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
67Heaven … I am Neil Lennon, supporting WEE OSCAR..!!.. Ibrox belongs to the creditors
23:51 on 23 December, 2013
”So Celtic weren’t party to the flag decision….wondered why all the protagonists had ‘disappeared’ from CQN tonight….gone all quiet on that front…….let’s wait and see what the LL can concoct tomorrow….”
####
I think that probably falls into the ‘with the benefit of hindsight I wish I hadn’t posted that’ category.
Annual holiday affliction…….
Dendritic Ulcer in eye diagnosed.
Viewing CQN via natty eye patch…………..
Hope to see something definitive from Celtic soon tho’ on the flag sideshow………
Good morning CQNers, hope everyone has a safe Happy Christmas. Going out early today for some last minute shopping to try and beat the traffic rush.
I have to say I am saddened by this whole banner business and Celtic’s part in it. Are we ever going to have anyone that stands up for what the support in general see from the media as blatant Celtic bashing. These are dangerous times as emotions are running high, just hope there is no reaction from our travelling support at St J game if provoked..
Big Nan, what about the KSC, are they to be added? I really liked your presentation to the committee.
Hail Hail
ernie lynch – to be fair to 67Heaven it is no way near as bad as my fawning praise of Jimmy Savile on KDS just before he was totally exposed.
Ouch!
PS trap
There are only twelve teams in the top league. I find it difficult to believe that those whose job it is to contact people at Clubs at decision making levels don`t know the names of those people. For that reason, I am finding it impossible to imagine a conversation at that level which allows neither person to be aware that this is a case of wrong number.
Also, I don`t find it too difficult to imagine a Security guy agreeing to something he does not have the authority to rubber stamp. That would be Celtic`s fault as well but it wouldn`t mean that they had agreed to the ban.
JJ (The Original)
Ernie
Can you point me to the source of where the police have asker tesco not to sell alcohol to the Cektic support? Not looking for a fight just curious.
If this is true I will stop going to tesco and make sure I don’t get lifted by police Scotland again. :-)