It all seems a bit cloak and dagger to suggest that pyrotechnics are smuggled into football grounds inside flags and banners. I’d always assumed the ‘stick it up your jumper’ technique would have been the delivery mechanism, not that I’ve any experience of the subject.
Flares have been an increasing menace at football games across the UK in recent years, including earlier this season at a Europa League qualifying game at McDiarmid Park, which passed off without mention in the media, but police have previously limited their interventions to lectures and the occasional arrest.
Football clubs are dependent on Police Scotland for safety licenses for games, and in their wisdom, the police have determined this action will remove one method of entering a stadium with pyrotechnics and discharging them without detection. The ‘stick it up your jumper’ technique remains, as does ‘light it while pretending to tie your laces’. Jumpers and tie-up shoes are the real enemy here.
This is an arbitrary over-reaction to the criticism Police Scotland came under for failing to properly police the vandalism at Fir Park, it will not prevent anyone intent on letting off flares inside a football ground from doing so. Over-reacting after under-policing is a well-known phenomenon. Going after flags and banners feels provocative. Coincidence?
You’re likely to find out if you’re in a provocative mood on Thursday; Police Scotland will know that provoking a crowd seldom quietens things down. The reaction to Fir Park made me hopeful that we’d seen the last flare from the Celtic support, now who knows? We’re deep in muscle flexing territory here.
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Fly the flag, fly the flag
Rob- I dont know if you missed my point on purpose or just didnt read it to the end- can you please explain why we are treated differently from other supports? Why are riot headlines manufactured when our supporters engage in the same behaviour displayed by football supporters across the country? Why is it us who attract sustained police attention and draconian measures? Try singing at the next home game and see how long it takes for you to become the subject of a state sponsored camera crew- your details will then be added to their database
Mullet and Co:
You wrote this…
find your last post rather strange
. slaved your kids to bigotry? What kind of bigotry?
I agree that when rangers return we will be back to the same old panto
. We are in limbo at the moment. Fans are turning away in their droves.
I don’t think this team are any worse to watch than some of the Strachan versions with Telfer and Caldwell etc. In fact I think this team would give any of the last versions a game. (striker would make a difference)
That said. Bigotry? 60,000 paying customers subscribed to that panto bigotry before. 60,000 will do it again and it will be cranked up all the more by the events now and in the last two years.
Bigotry though?
We all seem to love that. Keep turning and churning through the seasons with rangers back in and the same placemen at the SFA holding their necks above the waterline.
I wouldn’t call that Bigotry I’d call that stupidity.
If you want to make a difference then turn up now not when rangers return.
You are being played by the press and the PR spin merchants aided by the idiots on here who think that a flag or a flare is a big issue.
When folk couldn’t feed their families that was an issue.
When folk were told they couldn’t applied for jobs because of their religion that was an issue.
That was sectarian. That was bigotry.
The most important thing to me is the continuation of Celtic in it’s strongest form.
Please do not confuse the mini drama being played out on Provos and Pyros with the end point we should all be looking at.cv
Auldheid
More properly, the agreement was between the 3 governing bodies, Duff&Phelps as Administrators for and on behalf of Rangers plc, and Sevco Scotland Ltd.
On execution, Rangers plc forfeited their membership of the SFA and their share in the SPL, while Sevco Scotland Ltd became a conditional member of the SFA and an associate member of the SFL.
Quite what conditions attached to the SFA membership is unknown.
mullet and co – utter tripe – ffm is talking about yer everage celtic fan – read, think, reply
ASonOfDan
11:52 on
24 December, 2013
Don’t sack McCoist!!
“If I have a budget of £3million and Celtic have a budget of £20m then it would be extremely difficult to compete with them, an enormous task,” the £850,000-a-year Ibrox boss explained.
=========
Is he saying that having more money creates a sporting advantage ?
Not according to Lord Nimmo Smith.
Mullet and Co,
Excuse me? What songs did you just accuse me of singing?
For all – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qDM-yUFIu4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Celtic manager Neil Lennon today lifted the ban on the use of flags and banners at Celtic’s Boxing Day clash against St Johnstone after telling Police Scotland to grow up. But St Johnstone boss Tommy Wright stressed that Neil will personally toe the balls of anybody in possession of a banger or smoke bomb. Talks will be reported as ongoing after the Parkhead club mistakenly announced that a ban had been lifted. Celtic announced on Monday that the ban – which had been announced 24 hours earlier in a bid to prevent the use of pyrotechnics – had been shelved following a U-turn by St Johnstone and Police Scotland. However, police confirmed the ban had remained in place until Neil sorted them out and it is understood confusion arose after a Celtic official accidentally called his Inverness counterpart instead of his colleague at St Johnstone to discuss the issue having had too much Christmas Nog after the office party. Celtic face Inverness in the Highlands on Sunday. Celtic’s statement remains on their official website but St Johnstone are expected to clear up the matter later on Tuesday. Lennon said at his pre-match media conference: “I think there is dialogue still open between St Johnstone and ourselves, we are hoping from our point of view, that they will change their policy and let the flags and banners in to add a little bit of colour to the spectacle. “It is Boxing Day, it is a holiday time, I would be expect a pretty decent crowd, people will be in pretty good spirits. “One thing we want is the colour and atmosphere. What we dont want is the pyrotechnics, flares. It doesn’t add anything to the game and it can effect people on and off the field.” But Wright said: “St Johnstone have been made out to be the ones who imposed the ban. We’re just doing what Police Scotland told us. “Celtic were in full knowledge of that, so it was a three-way thing. “Celtic maybe have to pacify their fans but it was the police who told our club to do this and that was because – and it is not us saying this – that flags are used to smuggle in flares and smoke bombs. “It is nothing to do with people bringing in flags peacefully. Really if people go to games and don’t let off flares and smoke bombs then we don’t have this issue. “These devices shouldn’t be there. It’s a nonsense. People who want to do that have no place in the game or inside stadiums. “We’re just waiting for someone to pick one these things up and for it to go off in their hand and end up injured. It could even happen to the people throwing them.
Merry Christmas CQNers! Just about to head off for the drive home for Christmas. Stay safe everyone and will chat to yez all in a few days!
Marti
Stairheedrammy.. apologies.. in my own opinion it’s because we are the enemy of their dead favourites and to deflect from what is going on over at the govan cesspool.. however, if we gave them no reason to bring us down then the media would just make stuff up anyway as they have always done.. but do we believe the media in this country ? Of course we dont. So why get annoyed at them ?
Can I just wish you all and your families a very happy Christmas as I may not get the chance to get on again
Also to everyone going to game on St Stephens day be careful and be on your guard
From all the Cliftonville Celts in Belfast
Hail Hail
Auldheid:
You asked me a couple of nights ago when I was talking about the 5 way agreement was I talking about the SPL agreement or the SFL agreement, I can fo back and get the post if you like.
Now my simple point regardless of the agreements (?) is what honour in the agreements, what honour in Celtic signing up to the agreement and if my club condones cheating in the extreme should I support my cvlub.
For me the answer is a simple no.
My club in my eyes, sold morals and ethics, and the complicity of bigotry and sectarianism to further the dividend over their soul and my soul too, I don’t speak for my club just like my club don’t speak for me.
How much is a pound worth to you at Christmas when kids are starving.
St Johnstone have lifted flag ban.
i repeat
St Johnstone have lifted flag ban.
St Johnstone have lifted flag ban.
St Johnstone have lifted flag ban.
p
Have a good Christmas bhoys
HH
Kitalba,
Show me Celtics signature on the 5 way agreement?
FFM, apologies. I included you ‘you and a few others’. My anger at us consuming ourselves in this is getting the way of my clarity of thought.
The Battered Bunnet:
You have a copy of the 5 way agreement just like I do, our club accepted it as such.
How many leagues have the huns forfeited, how many cups have they won that they now renounce?
How many words have come out of Celtic regards the 5 way agreement all things being considered how much it impacts on their supporters and their supporters are the club?
The silence of the 5 way agreement might be their shame, but only after our shame.
Mullet and co,
No worries- gets me upset too.
Have a great Christmas, same to all else! Thanks for the short debate robcfc.
Mullet and Co :
I can’t show you Celtic’s signature on the 5 way agreement, but if Celtic never agreed to it, where are our lawyers, in the pub?
The Battered Bunnet
12:06 on
24 December, 2013
Auldheid
More properly, the agreement was between the 3 governing bodies, Duff&Phelps as Administrators for and on behalf of Rangers plc, and Sevco Scotland Ltd.
On execution, Rangers plc forfeited their membership of the SFA and their share in the SPL, while Sevco Scotland Ltd became a conditional member of the SFA and an associate member of the SFL.
Quite what conditions attached to the SFA membership is unknown.
=======================
Cheers. That was the mechanics. What I found interesting after researching was the complete power Article 14 (paradoxically titled Prohibition on Transfer of Membership) gave the SFA to do what they liked.
Had their been no “escape clause” the SFA could not have granted membership of any type (whatever the contrived mechanic’s) without breaking the rules.
So the Daily Record made up the wrong phone call story. There a surprise…
In case I dont get back on till tomorrow Hope all the celtic family have a fantastic Christmas a be granted all their needs.
If for ANY reason you find yourself alone at this time ,here is a very poor attempt at a cyber hug from me and mine ((0)) and always remember that Y.N.W.A.
Hail Hail
Dear Santa
For my Christmas I’d like:-
1) A smoke bomb
2) Two flares (green and white preferably)
3) And a massive big Irish tricolour in which I can hide 1) and 2)
Thanks hamiltontim
We’re on the road again
:-)
Auldheid:
I have all three different copies of the agreement on my PC.
If you too didn’t have them then why did you ask me about the the difference between the SPL agreement and the SPL agreement.
A simple I don’t know will suffice.
I’ll clarify my last para
Had their been no “escape clause” the SFA could not have granted transfer of membership of any type (whatever the contrived mechanic’s) without breaking the rules.
All they could have done was to grant Associate Membership to a new club on application to grant such within 14 days of SFL entry under the SFL and SFA rules
Apologies:
SPL/SFL
I think that now is the time for a temporary truce on here.
It’s Christmas time after all.
Slan.
What you posted at 12:20 is not nearly the full story.
Good news that the flags and banners fiasco has been resolved.
I tend not to wear colours to games either home or away ( mainly because of superstition) but fair play to those who do.
One bit that has concerned me in the last few weeks is all the criticism flying around aimed at the board, the press, match security, the SFA , UEFA , plus lots of whataboutery;some of it fair criticism some not.
Sadly , IMHO there has been a total imbalance, with very little criticism of those who embarrassed our club. I was at Motherwell, and I don’t need hyped headlines to tell me that what I witnessed and heard was appalling .
It wasn’t a majority, but equally it wasn’t isolated.
PS good work by (I suspect) JPT in letting common sense prevail on Thursday.
I see the BBC now reporting more than 250 seats damaged at Fir Park.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25499023
At this rate, we’ll be accused of detonating a small nuclear device in Motherwell town centre before the bells ring for the new year. I don’t know how many seats were damaged but if you look at the highlights of their recent home match against St. Mirren it certainly looks much less than 250.
16-roads.
Sounds like a plan to me.
But unfortunately there’s a good few not interested in peace on here.
iki
12:07 on 24 December, 2013
Is he saying that having more money creates a sporting advantage ?
Not according to Lord Nimmo Smith.
:)) BOOOOOOOM
Seemingly snottery on the radio last night was feeling sorry for the sleekits trying to challenge us ,basically saying it was not fair on the sleekitest of the sleekits sally forgetting thats what every other team is the league has to do every season.
Till we meet again all :))
Nae falling ooooooooooooooot
Kitalba @ 11.35
It wouldn’t be Adolf Hitler?
mullet and co
11:52 on 24 December, 2013
Excellent post. I could not agree more. The more I read this blog at times, the more I realise that it unfortunately does not represent the opinions of the rank and file who have attended Celtic park over the last number of years. I myself have no wish to play them again, but a blind man can see that there will be 60 thousand packed into Celtic Park when we do.
You only have to look at this flag issue, and the Lawwell comment furore, to see how much the media in this country are desperate to see us fail, and you have people on here, no disrespect to neganon, wishing that to happen in calling for a boycott. That will really show them we mean business when we can’t pay our bills eh? You only have to read a rangers website to feel the hatred they have for Lawwell, yet we want to do their bidding and get him and the board out?
This flag issue is small fry and I believe will be sorted out in our favour. If this is the straw that breaks the camel’s back for some, then that is unfortunate, however a mass return of tickets for the game will ensure that this ban will not stand in any other ground.
If we really want to make a difference turn up now and prove we don’t need them in the league for scottish football to be healthy.
Pro green
Plus 1.
ffm.. always interested in others views mate
Have a great christmas
Merry Christmas to All posters, This site hasn’t been as much fun as it used to be with lots of points of contention and as a result I’ve not been as much, hard for the soul to watch us fight and bicker and accuse each other of false allegiances, The season of Good will is upon us, let’s put all the petty guff away and act like Celtic Fans and get our well earned reputation back.
Divided we fall, united they fear us,
Merry Christmas and Hail Hail to one and ALL!!!!!!!!!
KLV
kitalba
12:25 on
24 December, 2013
Auldheid:
I have all three different copies of the agreement on my PC.
If you too didn’t have them then why did you ask me about the the difference between the SPL agreement and the SPL agreement.
A simple I don’t know will suffice.
=======================
Apologies. I was at cross purposes. I thought you were referring to something in my long post re SFA membership but on scrolling further back see your question related to what is on your PC.
I cannot be certain but I reckon there must have been more than one draft as the situation changed and the one that was signed up to would be the one that reflected SFL entry.
The key thing is the SFA agreeing to transfer SFA membership which allowed the same club debate to happen rather than insist on the Associate Membership route via the SFL which was norm for a new club.
If the SFA had insisted on the latter it may have deprived Scottish football of the debts Green agreed to pay in return for full SFA membership and with it the illusion of continuity. It was always about money on both sides of the table.
clashcitybhoy,
Can you not consider that we have young lads who are being actively harassed for some time now, and what you are seeing is what the perpetrators want and expect? A reaction in the face of extreme provocation. We are being played. The problems are coming directly from Focus, and the board’s determination to help them.