It all seems a bit cloak and dagger to suggest that pyrotechnics are smuggled into football grounds inside flags and banners. I’d always assumed the ‘stick it up your jumper’ technique would have been the delivery mechanism, not that I’ve any experience of the subject.
Flares have been an increasing menace at football games across the UK in recent years, including earlier this season at a Europa League qualifying game at McDiarmid Park, which passed off without mention in the media, but police have previously limited their interventions to lectures and the occasional arrest.
Football clubs are dependent on Police Scotland for safety licenses for games, and in their wisdom, the police have determined this action will remove one method of entering a stadium with pyrotechnics and discharging them without detection. The ‘stick it up your jumper’ technique remains, as does ‘light it while pretending to tie your laces’. Jumpers and tie-up shoes are the real enemy here.
This is an arbitrary over-reaction to the criticism Police Scotland came under for failing to properly police the vandalism at Fir Park, it will not prevent anyone intent on letting off flares inside a football ground from doing so. Over-reacting after under-policing is a well-known phenomenon. Going after flags and banners feels provocative. Coincidence?
You’re likely to find out if you’re in a provocative mood on Thursday; Police Scotland will know that provoking a crowd seldom quietens things down. The reaction to Fir Park made me hopeful that we’d seen the last flare from the Celtic support, now who knows? We’re deep in muscle flexing territory here.
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Cathedral View.
You have a Cape Sir? I sense of Superhero has been born – are you Super Tim???!
HH jamesgang
Auldheid
10:20 on
24 December, 2013
If it was a UEFA requirement,why did we not have one before?.Never heard of that UEFA requirement before,but I will bow to your knowledge.Funny how we appoint one when the storm is breaking.
Do you honestly think that JP will go against anything that comes out of Celtic Park.He is an employee.He is a flak jacket for the board.If you think otherwise,you are deluded.
I really love people who cherry pick bits of peoples posts to try and score some useless point.
Jungle Jim:
Thanks but please don’t credit me with anything other than having the ability to copy and paste the art of others. Don’t Let It Be forgotten.
Dear Santy
I have been a very good boy this season and wood like very much for you till bring me theez fings-
A gizillion quid transfer fund
Terry’s chocolate (orange)
A contract extenshun
A floot and Simply da best by Tina Turner (cos I luv moosik)
Can u also please bring uncle Walter a new cardigan cos he said that last year’s one never felt rite.
Yours,
Alistair McCoist, age 51 and 1/4
Ibrox Stadium
150 Edmiston Drive
Glasgow
PS. I’m sorry about the lack of mince pies last year
I’m pleased we are collectively now beginning to realise what is going on and recognise we need to take action. Celtic’s behaviour is appalling and they have once again been found out.
We await the next statement with baited breath. We need to use our economic muscle to fight back both against Scotland and against sadly our own club. I really mean it when I say boycott celtic.mi know many of you will disagree and fair enough.
Can I wish all of you and your families a very merry Christmas and new year. We are in for an interesting 2014.
NegAnon:
You’re pissed and you know you are….
Kitalba.. I agree with that but if we continue to allow these idiots to behave in the manner they are then it will be football without fans when we have our support banned.
Time we looked inward and find the enemies within our support. My ST is in the JSU and in all the years i have been going to CP i have never had any bother from police or stewards or from amyone filming me.. I go to watch and support our team but it seems theres a different reason for some to go home and away and its NOT to support our club.
Here we go. It’s all the fault of the Celtic Support again. That’s the angle this morning.
Merry Christmas Paul 67 and CQN’ers. Have a magic day with your families and friends. Santa has just left New Zealand , big green white and gold flag flying behind his sledge, heading in the direction of Perth. Take care all, keep safe and have heaps of fun. Hail Hail Hail Ho Ho Ho everyone.
NegAnon2
10:50 on
24 December, 2013
Let me be the first to disagree with your boycott. However I hope you have a great Christmas and a positive New Year.
Hail Hail.
Christmas Eve and time for PL to pen a letter (statement) to………………
……………….. Sanity Clause!
:-)
Sanitary Claws
ffm .. is that directed toward my posts ? If so then you are free to tell me that it wasnt the celtic support who let off pyros and wrecked seats or displayed the ‘f@@k uefa’ banners etc.. something sinister has crept into our support and anyone denying this is being naive. We need to rid ourselves of this or we allow ourselves to be dragged through the mud with these eyjits
kayal 33,
I posted this when most were sleeping, I totally agree with you, we as a club are deficient in the public relations field, we need a big-hitter as well.
02:18 on 24 December, 2013
Just read the entire thread on the flag/banner issue, the one thing that jumps out at me is how badly prepared the Club seem to be to deal with these issues as well as other recurring problems at the moment.
We have done well in appointing JP Taylor recently as the supporters liaison officer but more than anything else, we need to appoint a strong, well-informed and most importantly IMO, a Celtic minded public relations officer. We are almost always reactive to bad publicity, stumbling around in the dark trying to find a light switch, in fact we even seem to have developed a habit of creating a problem where none exists.
We need to start engaging our fans, clubs, web blogs and any Celtic interests on a regular basis to gauge how things are perceived in the Celtic supporting world, God knows there will be people out there who would jump at the chance of doing such a job. We need to get ahead of the game, be pro-active in dealing with topical issues, be able to identify upcoming problems and ensure that the support once again feel as though they belong at the core of the Club.
In return, the support need to understand the limitations of what such a PR person can achieve but if there is meaningful dialogue between the parties then it will surely go a long way to taking us out of the current malaise that is inflicting many who have been following Celtic for many, many years.
Just my thoughts, for what they are worth.
AR
RobCFC11,
It is to support our club.Just in a different way from you and others.Just as myself and thousands of others did in a different age.
There was hooliganism then that would make this look like a kindergarten party.
Enough of the misty eyed nonsense.
neganon2
10:50 on 24 December, 2013:
Glad to see you finishing on a positive note…a Happy and Holy Christmas to you and your Family.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
Good Morning.
It is the season to be charitable, and I am all for charity, goodwill, peace to all men and all that…………..however…………
It is as plain as Santa’s Beard what is going on here and I am afraid to say that in certain areas there is an ineptitude that is simply beyond the pale.
Sometime ago I said on these pages that a Policeman ( of whatever rank ) is an ordinary citizen who is granted certain legal privileges because of their job. No ordinary citizen can arrest someone, force them into a car, or call upon others to assist in another persons detention and so on without committing a crime.
The Policeman, on the other hand, is granted such permissions to exercise in the course of their duty, thus giving them the right of control in certain situations– a right which the rest of us simply do not have.
As a result of this situation, The Police ( as a body ) are historically apt to overstep the mark and to on occasion misuse the powers so granted. This is an understandable position and it is why we have a supposedly independent prosecution agency called the Crown Office and the Procurator Fiscal’s service.
These chaps historically, and regularly still do, let the police know that certain of their actions are not on. They can agree and refuse to seek search warrants. They can agree and refuse to prosecute people that the Police have arrested. They are a line of demarcation and separation between the Police themselves and a Police state.
Or they are meant to be.
I am increasingly concerned about the current level of politicising being exercised by the Police. I am not saying that they should not have a political function, nor be a lobbying body, but at the moment it appears to me that we have a particularly compliant Lord Advocate– one who is hell bent on acting hand in hand with senior Police Officers in achieving statistics which show reduction in crime and that a stellar job is being performed by all.
Well, statistics are all well and good, but they never tell the full story.
You can have great arrest to prosecution ratios if you change the law to suggest that everyone is guilty until proven innocent … but you would have bloody awful law…. dreadful law.
The Lord Advocate is the senior LEGAL officer in Scotland and his job is to safeguard and develop a legal framework that benefits all the citizens of the country….. not just the police and their statistics or their desired statistics.
Further, the Lord Advocate has as equally an important function with regard to the Civil law as well as the Criminal law– yet Mr Mulholland is very rarely heard saying anything about the Civil law. The public perception is that he is merely Scotland’s chief prosecutor.
The Civil side of his job includes the area of the law where administrative checks and balances are placed on institutions such as Banks, Local Authorities and yes even the Police with the very simple idea that if they are looked after as institutions they should be more efficient and a service to society.
The Lord Advocate has to look after our interests in all areas of the law.
Similarly, the chief security officer of a football club, is meant to look after the interests of every fan of that club.
Crime prevention- and by extension co-operation with the Police– is only one facet of the job.
There should be policies and systems in place which hopefully make the match day experience routine in many respects so that fans and security staff know exactly what is expected of them and each other.
It is as plain as the nose on your face that in this regard Football is failing.
How many chief security officers at football clubs are ex Policemen who have taken up such a position after decades behind the thin blue line with all the institutional conditioning that years in any profession automatically brings?
If a head of security has had 30 years of accepting orders from a Chief Constable’s office, do you honestly think he is going to instinctively argue against a proposal from the same office once he is on civvy street?
No chance.
Yet the job on civvy street is different– the obligations are different, the intention is different, the methods should be different and the mindset should be complimentary… but different.
The head of security should be setting out the functions of stewards…. yet for all I see at football matches, Stewards are a unique waste of space. Not because the Stewards themselves are bad people, it is just that they do not look as if they have any true idea of what their function is!
Are they guards? Are they like old fashioned cinema usherettes? Are they stadium guides? Are they health and safety personnel? Are they observers?
Most of the time they just appear as blokes in yellow vests who are as interested as your average tree wearing the same yellow jacket.
This should be a concern for the chief security officer but it would appear not to be so.
Stewards– are representatives of the club– officials of the club— and offer the punter immediate access to someone who speaks on behalf of the club.
Well, it is a measure of how ell the club is being represented when from on high we see blanket bans — on groups of supporters, on banners, on flags, on sections of the ground and so on.
Fans can be difficult, fans can be unruly, fans can as individuals and as a group, break the rules– but when you get a series of blanket bans handed down from on high then I am afraid something somewhere– someone somewhere— just ain’t working!
In many years of dealing with the police in administrative functions I have often found that speaking to a senior officer on a policy or political basis works wonders. When you say ” sorry but we are going to oppose you on this and will test it in the courts” you tend to get a politically worked out solution.
In one instance I can think of the Police wanted to end a certain practice in Glasgow which they said was illegal. Others disagreed. So, it was arranged that the practice would take place as per normal, the police would step in as per their intention and arrest the people carrying out the practice and charge them with a crime. They would not however interrupt the business concerned or try to stop it on the basis that the fiscal would very quickly issue a summons and the whole matter would be brought before the court quickly, argued quickly and decided upon quickly.
The result meant that if the judge found for the police then practice would have to change pending appeals etc, or that if the judge found against the police then the Chief Constable had to change tack.
In that instance the Police lost — but equally the person sitting in the shoes of Mr House was seen to be doing a good job as he had the sense to realise that had he been heavy handed and had his officers march around flexing their muscles all over the place interrupting people’s business on an incorrect legal premiss— then he would have been sued to the high heaven, had a big whole in the budget as a result of compensation payments and he personally would have been deemed a failure and been pensioned off and replaced.
The Policing of football fans in Scotland is not working. Stewarding at Scottish Football grounds is not working and leaves no one with a positive experience.
The Law is not working to the satisfaction of the citizens as a whole
Policemen, and ex policemen, law officers and those who employ all of them should just stop and think about that.
Taurangabhoy – Happy Christmas mate!
antipodean red
11:04 on
24 December, 2013
Agree entirely.I have been saying this all night.
Robcfc11:
I’ve argued against rebel songs at Parkhead on here countless times, just like Jock Stein, it was only my opinion.
We’re not a club, we’re the sons and daughters who escaped the paupers grave.
We are.
I don’t begrudge health and happiness to anybody, I personally wish them nothing but the best that the best can bring, it would just be nice if others would reciprocate.
I am not a keeper of their fears or emotions, neither am I a judge, I am not worthy, nobody is.
Appeasement never works.
Never, ever, miss an opportunity to remind the Scottish establishment at every opportunity, in six foot letters and at the top of your voice, that their rancid club is dead; that they have laughed and looked the other way as a club without even a whisper of bigotry at it’s heart was cheated for over 125 years while sectarian hatred, which blights all our lives, was incubated at the other side of the city without comment in parliament or media; that despite this we never stooped to their bigoted level and in fact went on to become the first British and only Scottish club to lift the European cup with a manager and a group of players whose religion was, logically, of no importance; that they continue to discriminate against Catholics to this day, as demonstrated in shredded conviction statistics; that the Irish in Scotland come from a fighting race that never have, and never will, lay down to an oppressor.
Turkeybhoy.. those days are gone and the world is a different place now and the rules are there for all to follow. The only misty eyes i have these days are from smoke bombs at football grounds.
Merry Christmas
Aff out. Christmas shopping needs to get started!!!
HH jamesgang
It saddens me that the usual suspects who have had it in for the Board for ever and a day are now using the latest nonsense to have a go a them. As has been said by others, too many of our support take the SMSM’s line, especially if it means criticising the Board.
I have no intention of returning my Season Ticket. And I have every intention, God spare me, of buying one next season. I can’t see the point of cutting off my nose to spite myself. I am and always have been in favour of a supporter being on the Board but I have no wish to see anyone who has a particular political view and who wishes to foist that on the Celtic family being that member, as do the most vocal members of the Celtic Trust.
I support Celtic, always have always will. There have been far far worse custodians of Celtic in my time than the present incumbents. There have also been great men like Fergus McCann and Brian Quinn whom so many “supporters” chose to boo, influenced, I’m sure, by the SMSM.
cheers tomtheleedstim …one quiet dram, thinking of home then I’ll rest up my liver for the big day in rotorua. Have a good one mate.
Kitalba.. I like your reasoned responses and respect your point of view..
I hope you have a terrific Christmas and a very happy and healthy 2014
From the BBC….. 24 December 2013 Last updated at 10:49 GMT……………….match between Motherwell and Celtic at Fir Park on 6 December was marred by pyrotechnics being set off and damage to more than 250 seats in the away end……..
TBM
Just scroll past this one please. It is about how Sevco got SFA Membership for benefit of a Twitter conversation.(but dive in if the subject matter interests you)
The SFA granted RangersNewco full SFA membership using the complete power of discretion under Article 14 of SFA Articles which are reproduced as they were in 2011/12 and as they are now following reconstruction.
In summary had RangersOldco not applied under Article 14 (and that is the rule basis for the 5 way agreement that preserved the commercial value to Scottish football of not losing a large swathe of its support, which would be a major, if not total, part of SFA thinking and got football debts paid) then they would have AUTOMATICALLY become REGISTERED SFA MEMBERS by dint of entering the SFL .
From there they would have had 14 days to apply to the SFA for SFA Associate membership and if they failed to do so or it was refused their SFL Associate membership would also lapse. It would of course not have been refused, so RangersNewco would have become an Associate member of the SFA and SFL.
After 5 years as an Associate Member of the SFA they could have applied for Full Membership of the SFA
(It is unlikely they would not have been in SPL after 5 years and so subject to whatever SPL membership rules were before reconstruction, but the matter is about SFA membership not league membership so SPL/SPFL rules are not relevant in terms of how SFA went about their business).
After League reconstruction Associate Memberships of SFA were dropped, but as Rangers membership was transferred under the SFA’s discretionary powers (for commercial , financial and social fear reasons) they already were and are full SFA members anyway, but would have become so after reconstruction had the SFA insisted RangersOldco apply as a new club joining the SFL and rejected an application from Charles Green (or D&P )under Article 14.
The relevant rules for 2011/12 and the Updated Version following Reconstruction on which the foregoing is based now follow.
SFA Handbook Articles 2011/12
4.2 Members shall be of three classes: full members: associate members: registered members.
Article 6.2 A club or association shall be admitted as a registered member automatically by reason of its being admitted as a member of an Affiliated Association or an Affiliated National Association, or , in the case of a club in membership of or participation in an association. League or other combination of clubs formed in terms of Article 18 and in the case of an association by being formed in terms of Article 18 , provided it is not already an associate or full member . A registered member shall not be a member of more than one Affiliated Association or more than one Affiliated National Association. A registered member may apply at any time to become an associate member.
Article 6.3 A club or association desiring to qualify for full membership of the Scottish FA must first be admitted as an associate member . A club cannot be admitted as an associate member unless it meets and commits to continuing compliance with the Membership Criteria and amendments thereto as shall be promulgated by the Board from Time to time in connection with the membership of the Scottish FA.
Definitions.SFA Membership Criteria means the criteria promulgated by the Board from time to time in connection with qualifying for associate membership of the Scottish FA in terms of article 6.3
14. Prohibition on Transfer of Membership
14.1 It is not permissible for a member to transfer directly or indirectly its membership of the Scottish FA to another member or to any other entity, and any such transfer or attempt to effect such a transfer is prohibited, save as otherwise provided in this Article
14. Any member desirous of transferring its membership to another entity within its own administrative group for the purpose of internal solvent reconstruction must apply to the Board for permission to effect such transfer, such consent not to be unreasonably withheld or delayed. Any other application for transfer of membership will be reviewed by the Board, which will have complete discretion to reject or to grant such application on such terms and conditions as the Board may think fit.
SFA Handbook as Updated to 2 Aug 2013.
4.2 Members shall be of two classes:- full members and registered members
6.2 A club or association shall be admitted as a registered member automatically by reason of its being admitted as a member of an Affiliated Association or an Affiliated National Association, or in the case of a club through membership of or participation in an association, league or other combination of clubs formed in terms of Article 18 and in the case of an association by being formed in terms of Article 18, provided it is not already a full member. A registered member shall not be a member of more than one Affiliated Association or more than one Affiliated National Association. A registered member may apply at any time to become a full member.
6.3 A club or association desiring to qualify for full membership of the Scottish FA must meet, and commit to continuous compliance with, the Membership Criteria and amendments thereto as shall be promulgated by the Board from time to time in connection with the membership of the Scottish FA.
“Membership Criteria” means the criteria promulgated by the Board from time to time in connection with qualifying for full membership of the Scottish FA in terms of Article 6;
Morning all, Ayrshire is windy and the blonde is away getting her eyebrows done, me, I’ve been told I just have one and look like one…! I love being a Tim.
Flag banning, it’s not about fireworks, it’s about songs, Roll of Honour, thats why it’s just our club and no other. The H flag at Celtic Park set it off and until this song is tested in court as offensive or not, it will continue.
Crowds down, disharmony, usually go hand in hand with a recession. Crowds are down because people are struggling financially, disharmony, people are disgruntled at the lack of opportunities times are not good all over and its not because, as we are led to believe because a club died.
Can we get back to being a football club with great supporters.
Ayrshire is Green and White
To all at cqn wherever in the word you are
http://www.santas.net/howmerrychristmasissaid.htm
Word = world
robcfc11,
You’ll need to point out the evidence of that for me.
I see only evidence of harassment of the support. The concern is not only lack of solidarity (ooh, Leftie word, red under the bed) from the Board, but of actual collusion with Scotland’s sinister establishment.
You choose to ignore all this and blame your fellow supporters without
The only infiltration’
The zombies empty threat to bring the entire Scottish game down along with them obviously didn’t come to anything,the game continued,regardless.
If Celtic fans start to boycott games,then the future of Scottish football could well be in serious danger.
That is the Masonic agenda – their team is dead,they are not playing so they are trying to wreck the show,using Celtic as a proxy -something they couldn’t achieve themselves.
They are sneaky,treacherous vermin – look at their shameful history,and learn.
I would be against a boycott of away games for this reason.
Scottish football was doing alright,until they began their targeting and manipulation of the Celtic support.
It’s killing them that the game goes on without them,it really is.
Robcfc@1039,
Thats your view and fine, i disagree, i think the board are quite happy to treat us like customers when the money is coming out of our pocket, but aren’t quite keen to listen on the whole “customer experience” when the fans have complaints.
I believe they are trying to sanatise the support maybe with an ulterior motive in mind.
As for the flares and smoke bombs, i agree flares have no place at football, smoke bombs i am more comfortable with, but the issues are way way beyond that.
HH
gebhoy
Robcfc11:
Thank you and know this is true even though it only a few words on a Celtic blog…
We might not agree, we can bring all sorts of historical facts to bear, but they are for latter, they are for when we can speak as a man to a man, and half a world apart my God is my jury and will stand for me when I wish you and every Celtic supporter like you, and every Celtic Supporter too, twice that I would dare ask for myself.
I Hope you have a good one mate and in my life the quiet ones are the best ones.
Without trial. Only infiltration is by board loving right wing sycophants poisoning any discussion which might lead to a united support. It’s disgusting.
Auldheid:
What is the difference between the SPL/SFL 5 way agreement?
ffm.. how much evidence do you need ?
Offensive banners
Smoke bombs
Flares
Seats wrecked
Wasnae us ?