It all seems a bit cloak and dagger to suggest that pyrotechnics are smuggled into football grounds inside flags and banners. I’d always assumed the ‘stick it up your jumper’ technique would have been the delivery mechanism, not that I’ve any experience of the subject.
Flares have been an increasing menace at football games across the UK in recent years, including earlier this season at a Europa League qualifying game at McDiarmid Park, which passed off without mention in the media, but police have previously limited their interventions to lectures and the occasional arrest.
Football clubs are dependent on Police Scotland for safety licenses for games, and in their wisdom, the police have determined this action will remove one method of entering a stadium with pyrotechnics and discharging them without detection. The ‘stick it up your jumper’ technique remains, as does ‘light it while pretending to tie your laces’. Jumpers and tie-up shoes are the real enemy here.
This is an arbitrary over-reaction to the criticism Police Scotland came under for failing to properly police the vandalism at Fir Park, it will not prevent anyone intent on letting off flares inside a football ground from doing so. Over-reacting after under-policing is a well-known phenomenon. Going after flags and banners feels provocative. Coincidence?
You’re likely to find out if you’re in a provocative mood on Thursday; Police Scotland will know that provoking a crowd seldom quietens things down. The reaction to Fir Park made me hopeful that we’d seen the last flare from the Celtic support, now who knows? We’re deep in muscle flexing territory here.
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Just read the entire thread on the flag/banner issue, the one thing that jumps out at me is how badly prepared the Club seem to be to deal with these issues as well as other recurring problems at the moment.
We have done well in appointing JP Taylor recently as the supporters liaison officer but more than anything else, we need to appoint a strong, well-informed and most importantly IMO, a Celtic minded public relations officer. We are almost always reactive to bad publicity, stumbling around in the dark trying to find a light switch, in fact we even seem to have developed a habit of creating a problem where none exists.
We need to start engaging our fans, clubs, web blogs and any Celtic interests on a regular basis to gauge how things are perceived in the Celtic supporting world, God knows there will be people out there who would jump at the chance of doing such a job. We need to get ahead of the game, be pro-active in dealing with topical issues, be able to identify upcoming problems and ensure that the support once again feel as though they belong at the core of the Club.
In return, the support need to understand the limitations of what such a PR person can achieve but if there is meaningful dialogue between the parties then it will surely go a long way to taking us out of the current malaise that is inflicting many who have been following Celtic for many, many years.
Just my thoughts, for what they are worth.
AR
There was me saying a few hours ago that MSM and the polis were totally incompetent when it seems that the chaos is all down to Celtic. What a shambles! The club is going to be ridiculed by all and sundry over this.
Celtic must now clarify the position and come clean on whether they did in fact sanction the flag ban last Wednesday as claimed in the Daily Mail article.
I apologise to Neg Anon for my remark earlier.
It makes me wonder how the club can arrange trips to Kazakhstan, arrange travel, visas etc yet cannot liaise with a club in Perth or with the local police.
The best we can hope for now is that the poor weather forecasted causes the game to be postponed.
Police Scotland, the Centralising of Power, a handy warning. Just an offended person with power can do so much F-ng damage.
America is about to be turned over, many on here will possibly revel in that but the implications for Freedom are vast.
I love the fact that a local Sheriff can defy the Overpowered Government/President. Is this still possible?
BIG Government tends to trample on everything.
Let us magnify the current situation in Scotland?
Globalism is already here and an Ecumenical Spirituality is coming in TOTAL Defiance of the First Commandment.
moonhowlers.csc
The wee Brother and his family are over from Switzerland so I’ve had a great night on the sauce with him playing CS Global Offensive on my PC. He isnae as guid as he used to be, yet.
Sunshine
kilbowie kelt
I got my first ever celtic jersey in Milford it was made by O’Neills !!!
Went to kerrykeel every year on holiday as a kid
Re Kris Commons – Kris is short for Kristan
Wild night tonight can’t sleep surprised still have power
I am a bit worried about the new UK Anti social behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill. It could potentially be worse than the OBB. http://www.scriptonitedaily.com/2013/11/11/the-birth-of-a-police-state-uk-police-to-be-granted-sweeping-new-powers-2/
EMBARRASSED Celtic chiefs were nursing red faces after calling the wrong club to discuss the flag ban against St Johnstone.
Hoops security bosses planned to talk to Saints official Peter Mathieson in a last-gasp bid to have the Boxing Day ban lifted.
But SunSport understands they blundered by speaking to Caley Thistle security advisor Peter MacCallum instead.
And the upshot of the cock-up was Hoops told their fans they could take flags and banners to Thursday’s match at McDiarmid Park. It was only when bemused St Johnstone officials and Perth cops contacted Celts the club realised their gaffe.
The Hoops had originally agreed to the Saints ban at a meeting last Friday.
But as fan pressure mounted over the weekend, Celts decided to take steps to try and overturn the ruling.
That’s when they made the call, but got through to the wrong club’s security boss.
It is understood Caley’s MacCallum did not think this was out of the ordinary because the Hoops play Inverness this weekend.
MacCallum checked with his chairman before responding Inverness had no problem with flags and banners being taken to the game.
Celtic’s officials then contacted their bosses to say they HAD been successful in getting the Perth ban lifted.
Lynch says there has been a mis-communication
A statement was then issued on Celtic’s website telling supporters they had reached an agreement with Police Scotland and St Johnstone and the ruling had been reversed.
But because of the mistaken identity cock-up, both Saints and the police did not know a thing about it and reacted furiously. Match commander Kevin Lynch, who is behind the ban on banners, immediately contacted Celtic chiefs to demand to know why they had broken the three-way agreement without telling anyone.
Celtic, police and St Johnstone officials then spent the remainder of the day trying to work out what had happened — before mortified Hoops staff realised the phone call had been made to the wrong person.
Speaking to SunSport before the blunder had been discovered, Lynch was bemused with Celtic’s statement.
He said: “As far as Police Scotland are concerned the ban has not been lifted. There appears to have been a breakdown in communication.
“My understanding is the original agreement, which was no flags being allowed, still is maintained.
“That agreement was reached in support of the ground regulations and was agreed by both clubs.
“Police Scotland supported it in agreement with the two clubs.
“As it stands, we would still like to see it implemented based on the safety considerations for the game which have not changed.”
Police Scotland and St Johnstone will resume talks with red-faced Parkhead chiefs today.
A CHRISTMAS MESSAGE…
POSTED BY STEVIE MAC – 24/12/2013 – THE JOURNAL
Over the last few weeks, there has been a lot of conflict within the Celtic community. My greatest concern here are the divisions that are beginning to occur within the support and between the fans and the club.
As supporters, we support the team and the club. We are also duty bound to uphold the values of the club.
In all my years as a Celtic fan I’ve encountered belief systems that are not my own. I’ve also seen Celtic fans battle against issues I wouldn’t have given given much thought to had it not been for them.
Within the Celtic support there are those who have strong opinions on subjects that others do not. That isn’t really anything new and very typically “Celtic”.
However, there are a number of issues that exist on a fan v club basis that have attracted too much attention without a middle ground being met. I’m not laying the blame at one doorstep here, but there is most definitely a requirement to address these issues and agree on the best way forward.
Not everyone amongst the support believes in fighting for same issues. Nor can you be judgemental against people just wanting to watch the football.
The most recent banners depicting Sands and Wallace left many people scratching their heads. Not everyone was clued up on that one and were very much in the dark.
Regardless of whether a valid point exists here, the question is: was it the correct time and place? Neil Lennon didn’t think seem to think so and he isn’t alone in that assessment.
Appart from that incident, the club appears to have a love/hate relationship with the Green Brigade. And within that, there is the matter of police interference with said group.
This ‘publicity’ of sorts has increased and from what some fans have suggested is attracting ‘hangers-on’ as well. I say hangers on because the GB have defended themselves by stating that some of the unsavoury actions of late were not linked to them.
Now to be honest, I don’t know where the GB begins and ends. I only know what kind of noise they bring to the support and it’s been pretty astounding.
I’ve also read that the police have targeted, intimidated and manhandled members of the GB or at least fans within that section of the ground over a period of time. How much the club has been involved (as has been suggested) in any of that, I am unclear on.
This and other matters of debate such as the living wage for Celtic staff, continue to challenge the relationship between club and some supporters. For many, its all worth fighting for but are we all (fan and club) going about this the right way?
The club are nothing without the fans and the as far as the business end goes, the club is being run within its means. What needs to be addressed seriously and as a matter of urgency is the communication, respect and understanding between the supporters and the club.
If acts of vandalism have taken place in Celtic Park (as one official mentioned to me earlier this year) and not just away grounds (Fir Park), then it only reduces the credibility of any argument supporters put forward. Equally, Celtic must be open to the voice of the supporters and indeed supportive to them if injustice is taking place in the stands.
Celtic fans are not animals or hooligans. If you represent any of that in football grounds then quite frankly I hope they chuck the book at you.
Like many of you, I’ve stood on the terraces and sat in the stands. On many an occasion through challenging times for the club.
I don’t think I’ve ever felt like vandalising seating at Celtic Park or anyone elses stadium for that matter. Aligning yourself with that sort of behaviour setting off flares etc makes you anything but Celtic minded in my opinion.
Surely this is an opportunity to open a solid channel of communication between the fans and the club. Not just one supporter group or the GB – all supporters.
This is a great club with a great history. An unbroken history I might add.
Do not allow this storm to gather momentum. It’s destructive and unnecessary.
We can all continue to debate our views so long as we are open to listening to each other and do it in the appropriate arena. In tandem with this, each supporter and official of Celtic Football Club has a responsibility to represent the club in the kind of manner that gains respect, not the opposite.
Whether we believe politics belong in football or not, will remain open for debate. Personally, when it overshadows what is being done on the park, it is a sign that times are bad (which they aren’t) or you haven’t thought it through.
If displaying banners of one kind or another bring action from UEFA, then don’t we have to think this through some more? In the end it only brings down a blanket of blame and shame on the whole Celtic community and its the club that get fined.
I don’t believe that people wish to see the support just sit back and accept what is dished out. That suggestion by some fans is totally and utterly absurd but there is a time and a place to take action.
Yet fans such as myself do not want to see matches overshadowed by political debate. Perhaps an alternative forum is the best way forward here.
Its not as though we’re trying to oust the board here. A bolder statement is being made, bringing a cloud over the club, UEFA sanctions and divisions in the Celtic community.
You don’t have look very far to see how one club can implode on every level. A lesson must be learned from that.
In 2014 I can only hope for better communication and greater respect amongst fans and between the club and the whole of the support. We are all in this together and it’s our responsibility ensure the good name of the club and its history is maintained, not tarnished.
Hail! Hail!
Merry Christmas & Happy New Year from Stevie Mac
Twisty
I heard that is not strictly true. My understanding is that Ronnie contacted Peter Pan about the ban and was told Never Never a ban in this Land.
:-)
Funny as feck. You can just see the banners now! Oh wait. Maybe not.
MWD
Shambles off the park …moderate on it
How not to build from a position of strength
JP Taylor ..lauded by many …what has he contributed …..matters appear worse to me
Just embarrassing
MWD
Pantomime season indeed.
Anyhow, that aside, I hope you and all the MWD family are well and have a wonderful Xmas. It would be nice to catch up next year sometime, somewhere. Must see if Vmhan can organise another wee shammy get together in Blackpool.
My Xmas wish is that between you and I we can make the 1 million posts required on CQN to get a mention in the CQN annual in 2014:-)
You still accident prone:-)) Still biking?
Watching a re run of Saturdays game …..
A multitude of crosses into the box …nobody attacking the ball
How bad must Balde be if he can’t get a game ?
PF Ayr
I only ever had dealings with JPT once. Can’t recall if I ever told you about it but must do the next time we meet. The upshot of it was they had to ask me to leave the ticket office and go outside and calm down :-)
MWD
Lesser spotted …hope your well mate
Need to catch up soon ……
Good Morning Timland.
Flaggate, what a farce…..someone at CP needs their
erse booted,a total and utter embarrassment…confusion
reigns, got a bad feeling about events off the park come
Thursday…..away oot tae work.
funandgamesoncqntodayCSC.
Twisty
Chocolate fire guard ….
Never been so disenchanted…one disappointment after another …yesterday’s flag carry on is farcical
TWISTS N TURNS
Good luck today,mate.
I am generally reasonably supportive of the club and their efforts but this , if true , is such a schoolboy error that our credibility with the police and other clubs , let alone the MSM who will happily crucify us for it ( not that I particularly care about them ) will be at rock bottom.
Embarrassing, tbh.
Twisty
There was a massive realighnment in the MWD family front at the beginning of this year. I am now the proud owner of a bachelor pad. Settling down now.
A piss up in a brewery would be good. I’m sure it wouldn’t be too difficult to come up with a reason for a weekend on it somewhere.
Accident prone as ever. More rib breaking this year. Lol
I believe next year Ronnie Culley will be overseeing the CQN nome de blog sourcing requirements. So we are in with a shout. :-)
MWD
TWISTS N TURNS
Wished you luck and got the lucky seven post.
Putting my lottery numbers on tonight!
The long wait is over
If this is true then it is just going to have to be a Mowbary moment. Stand back, take it on the chin and for once have a laugh at ourselves. If true it is hilarious!!! IMO
MWD
Bobby
Thanks bud. Should be back here posting this evening all going well! Any complications and I’ll be having Xmas dinner with the nurses so there’s no downside really:-)
PFayr
Doing very well buddy. A catchup soon would be good. Every time something arranged now-a-days always falls on weekends I have wee fella. Hope you are well.
MWD
Bobby
Hmmmm so you are on a lucky streak? Lottery ticket? In that case can I just say that you are my most favourite poster on CQN and my bestest pal in the world:-)
Ah,nurses….
Takes me back.
MWD
It is hilarious yer right
I might find it funny if it wasn’t another example of CFC incompetence
My greatest concern is that we actually agreed to the flag ban in the first place
There seems to be a real disconnect between the club and fans
Twisty
You having a vasectomy? :)
MWD
TWISTS N TURNS
Even unto half my kingdom,mate.
I’ll redirect the bailiffs later.
MWD
Doing fine
Fitba is doing my nut in
Apart from that all well …glad your making progress
MWD
He’s too old to need that :-))
MWD
Oh I didn’t realise you had gone through personal changes. Hope 2014 is a good year for you.
SSN …stating flag ban rescinded
I cannae keep with this farce ….
Anybody know what’s going on ?
PFayr
Spot on. Club should never have agreed to it in first place.
Must admit. I’m pretty disillusioned with it all. In the main with the club. But also a little with the GB for grabbing PL’s rope. Then on Saturday once again listening to a fair few fans booing a Celtic player onto the park.
Our club is nothing like what it used to be.
MWD
MWD
I’ll second the above.
I hope everything works out,mate.
PFayr
Must be the ole prostate then!!! Ooouch!!!
Twisty. Out the other end buddy. 2014 is going to be a slow start but it is looking good already.
MWD
MWD
Booing CFC players onto the pitch …nothing worse
Was Big Sammi too ….short memories
MWD
Ha….nah..bit further down!
Anyhow, years ago I considered a vasectomy but couldn’t make my mind up so I decided to ask my kids to vote to say whether I should have it done or not. They voted 15 to 3 that I should:-)
PFayr
Disgusts me. Too many green huns in our support now-a-days.
Don’t know what they expect from a guy who rarely gets a game in the SP (whatever the feck they call it now) and is played out of position in Europe. Sammy is not and never will be a lone striker!!! Why NL can’t spot that I’ll never understand.
MWD