Resolutions to be voted on at the 30 April meeting are proposals from the Scottish Premier League executive (Neil Doncaster). They have nothing to do with the Gang of 10 nor are they a Duff and Phelps/Rangers conspiracy. The resolutions are not set in tablets of stone and have no authority in their own right. The League has form in voting down executive resolutions, in particular overthrowing plans for a 10 team league last year, so, in theory, the votes could go for or against.
Neil Doncaster, being as thorough as he is, has almost certainly shared his plan with the man along the corridor at Hamden, SFA chief exec, Stewart Regan. He is also likely to have taken guidance from the Uefa executive, specifically CEO David Taylor, formerly of this parish. It would be unnecessarily lax to leave legislative loose ends before embarking on such a radical plan, so forget about any intervention by the SFA (cough) or Uefa.
Putting preconceived notions aside (if I can), the resolutions are flawed.
Asking for 8 clubs to vote for a Newco to be allowed into the league, but requiring 11 to vote for a financial penalty to be imposed for an Insolvency Transfer, is beyond ridiculous. The former provision – the gift of continuity to a defaulter – is easy to achieve. The latter – the punishment for defaulting – is unnecessarily difficult. Duff and Phelps will need the support of only one club – let’s say Dunfermline, who are brogue-to-brogue with them anyway and due to relegation will not be affected by the financial penalty, will vote with them. Why would Doncaster put such a high bar on setting financial penalties?
Arbitrary voting thresholds smack of gerrymandering. Can anyone explain this in any other way?
There will now be a period of debate between clubs; Celtic will oppose any provision for a Newco to enter the league. Duff and Phelps will be in the opposite corner. You can expect to hear wailing and gnashing from Rangers (IA) along the same ridiculous lines they have used ahead of the SFA hearings into the behaviour of the club in advance of, and after, Craig Whyte’s purchase of the club. On that occasion, Duff and Phelps argued that the actions of Rangers’ new owner, or the failure of the old board to conduct their business correctly, should not lead to a penalty on the club.
It doesn’t matter how lax or severe the proposed penalties, Duff and Phelps will oppose them. Anything lessening of the penalty is worth money to the proposed new buyers of Rangers, so let’s view everything Duff and Phelps say in pound notes.
Rangers have unpaid bills potentially running up to £134mm that’s medicine, operations, road repairs and Help for Heroes. Allowing them to ditch their history and start afresh, where owners profit by securing a floating charge over the stadium, where fans can continue to be provided with a team in the league, creates an unprecedented moral hazard. It rewards irresponsibility and would create a queue of clubs ready to do the same.
And on the point of ditching their history… I openly mock anyone who uses phrases like Hybrid Liquidation. You don’t get Hybrid Liquidation, Partial Liquidation or Liquidation Lite. You cannot buy or sell history, as Duff and Phelps tried (and failed, I think) to convince Rangers fans. Liquidation would mean Rangers Football Club, established in 1873 (or 1872 as they now claim), incorporated in 1899, is finished.
Just pay your bills and do us all a favour.
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Don’t know if the following idea has been put forward or not.
Based upon the following:-
1.rangers face charges from the sfa re bringing the game into disrepute etc.They ask for more time to prepare.request granted
2.spl say they are carrying out an investigation into claims of players receiving payments not disclosed to the spl.This was announced on 5th March,more than 5 weeks ago.No result yet.
3.SPL announce investigation into sectarian singing by rangers fans v. Killie 53 days ago.No outcome or update.
spl drop a bombshell today giving 19 days before a vote on it.
Celtic could and,in my opinion should seriously consider the following course of action.
1.Write to N.Doncaster (making the contents of the letter public knowledge) expressing concern at content,lack of consultation,lack of communication and lack of meaningful detail in his framework proposals.
2.State that a further document is required from the spl/doncaster with full details included
3.New,detailed proposals put to clubs for consideration.
4.Given the timescales being taken to address even the simplest of investigations (singing eg) and the enormous implications of Doncaster’s proposals,the proposed date to vote on the matter must be long after 30th April to allow meaningful consideration and legal advice.
Celtic should then spin this nonsense out as long as humanly possible.
In the meantime D and P are charging more and can’t sell the club.
The big tax case will be announced.
hunfermline will be out of the league and the yorkston vote gone.
There is more than one way to skin a cat.Employ the very same tactics on them that they have used to procrastinate,defer and delay on matters they have supposedly being attending to.
19 days in which to receive,digest and vote on such far reaching change is clearly insufficient
Let’s not talk of boycotts. Too divisive.
How about an Unofficial Away Game Strike.
Yea, that’s more like it. Suits our ethos and if the various supporter groups endorse it, it becomes official.
Surely we wont have any strike breakers or scabs crossing picket lines.
You don’t even need management approval, do we brothers?
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the updates, as you said you have predicting these moves fo a while, I’m trying to catch up.
When will they understand every sham they pull eats away at their very being and the whole of Scottish Football?
Far too early for me to digest just how much stale flesh from the spoilt carrion they are forcing down our throat and as for the effect on our alimentary wellbeing I could only guess at the moment.
However as has been proven time & time again what doesn’t kill us makes us stronger. We are the embodiment of Jock Stein.
They are stitched together from numerous; rancourous, rapacious, rancid parts, zombied to life, defying natural law and moral justice. The disembodiment of Franken Stein.
KillTheMonsterCSC
Auld Neil Lennon heid on 11 April, 2012 at 22:03 said:
You argued that Regan was the messiah when the initial SFA cosmetic changes were passed, now its back to being rigged, it was ever thus, there is still no fair play in Scotland their never has been, Jock and MON both stated we have to be a fair distance in front of the other teams in Scotland, we will just have to keep taking the fight to the SFA, i fully expect Celtic to oppose Doncasters proposals with every legal means available to them, and will certainly vote against, what i dont want is for Celtic to take decisions which threaten the immediate future financial health of the club, or our rightful place in the SPL premier league threatening the nuclear option MAD, is exactly that, mad. Platini is struggling with his FFP proposals as financial doping at top C/L clubs in debt to the tune of billions and immigration rules bent by Iberian clubs to allow South Americans dodgy passports are just two blatant examples of cheating which continue in EUFA competitions, i will continue to financially support Celtic and financially boycott those clubs whose delegates at the SFA committees continue to turn a blind eye to the continued shame that is Rangers FC, we shall overcome eventually, these proposals may be voted in and we may have to accept a bitter bitter pill in the form of a newco, Celtic FC are a beacon of hope in this sham of a league i hope we continue to be so whilst those around us lose self respect and dignity
hamiltontim
Been playing catchup all evening, an Bhoy you hit it on the head, the more they talk of CHANGE, as we have seen to-day, and for the past 100yrs or so, it will never change. We joked last night re the Brotherhood,many a true word spoken in jest,the only difference now is they dont COVER THERE WORK anymore, it is thrown directly into our faces.
Awerabest PJ
ulysses mcghee on 11 April, 2012 at 22:52 said:
”Ernie
Do you think – if we indeed applied to the 3rd division – that sky would scream no? That ESPN would cry no? That Uefa would cry no?”
Scream?
Cry?
Why the silly language?
In any case I’ve already answered the points you’ve made.
The point here though is that there’s no other option open to us.
Boycotts won’t work and we’re not moving to the EPL.
So the only option left is to suck it up and support Old Firm Celtic. Sure you can make noises but at the end of the day that’s all they’ll be. Noises.
Why even bother with the noises? Just go for an easy life and roll over and accept it.
Canamalar – sorry, didn’t see your earlier post. Do you really think a court in this country would find in our favour in any case against the other SPL teams?!
T4
miki67 on 11 April, 2012 at 22:55 said:
I think we all do but the problem comes in finding a solution that is satisfactory to all.
There has been possibly 100 posters, at most, on this article and the variances in opinion is astounding.
How the hell are we going to reach a consensus when you consider our global appeal.
” Inside The Brotherhood “—-you’re seeing it in action today. Big Time.
ernie lynch on 11 April, 2012 at 22:44 said:
Not an attractive option by any manner of means, but far better than us going out of business whilst the cheating, lying, bigoted, undignified lot survive and prosper in the vacuum we leave behind
In an ideal world, they would already be dead. In an ideal world, they would have been dead years ago as retribution for a century of sectarianism. In an ideal world their many sins – financial, discriminatory and everything else – would have been addressed by the SPL, SFA, UEFA, sponsors, press, Scottish clubs etc etc. However, we dont live in an ideal world – the rest of the world, frankly, dont give a toss.
Only a few weeks ago, Yorkston at Dunfermline was praising them when they witheld money from his club, even when it meant he wasnt able to pay his own players!!!!!
Sorry, we are on our own. If we threaten to leave without anywhere to go then we are signing our own deathe warrant
Until we meet again…
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
Socrates mulligan – not sure your analogy is accurate.
Would you keep going back to a card game when you knew that the game was fixed and you would lose your money?
Perhaps finding a straight game or giving up gambling would be your decision.
Anyway that wee Scottish striker for Wigan looks good. Do you think he could sign for us in the Summer (for the third time)? :-)
HH
CRC
Celtic should sue the SFA for loss of earnings due to their incompetence in governing our game.
We should also be telling sky/espn to do one.
I honesty think the time to move toward an Irish/welsh/SFA rebels league set up should be looked at. There will be other teams in the SPL/SFL who will be left with a bad taste in their mouth over this.
CRC
I think we retired his treatment table when he left!
hamiltontim on 11 April, 2012 at 23:00 said:
>>>><<<<
Yes…but now,more than ever,we must. Today has been the latest horrible twist in a scandalous story. HH!
gscbhoy (skint but NOT in administration) on 11 April, 2012 at 23:02 said
We go to the Scottish third division.
Or am I supposed to believe they would reject us?
Doncaster has failed to close the sky tv deal with a signed contract before RFC went into admin. This is surprising as the terms of the contract were agreed months ago. Was the delay caused by an administrative error by doncasters team?
As such with RFCIA likely to be liquidated , panic has set in from Doncaster about the tv contract. His failure could result in a vastly reduced tv deal without RFC in some way present. This shortage of finance would probably be enough to see hearts, Dundee utd, kilmarknock go to the wall.
Doncaster has then taken upon himself to remedy his error by creating a soft landing for a newco with different resolutions than can be voted in or out in a singular manner rather than a collective unit of resolutions being applied. Regan is trying to save Doncaster by supporting him.
If I wanted to be really sinister, it could be suggested that Doncaster could have deliberately held up the tv contract signature as it would be useful as leverage for a newco reentry. Hes maybe not that clever , it would probably need an old hand to pull of that kind of stunt ……..is RC EBT Ogilvie still around
Ps. I see John Fleming appointed Euan Norris ( 2nd only to willie collum in awarding dubious penalties to RFCIA ) for Sunday’s quarter final against hearts. John Fleming is still continuing the work started by his lord and master Hugh Bonkle of Dallas
CRC
Think he wld fail the medical? lol
HH
row Z : the stinkin SFA would endorse the SPL instead of any new set up we’re involved in and we wouldn’t get a Euro license! Hmmmm.
T4
OK I am feeling down.
I feel like I am being used, abused and persecuted.
Is it a fair assumption that other Celtic fans and other SPL fans feel the same? I think so.
So what to I do and thus what should other Celtic fans and other SPL club fans do about it?
One option is to do nothing. And let’s be honest, I (other Celtic fans and fans of other SPL clubs) have not really done anything yet. So it is the status quo. What does that get you? Nothing. Yes some people have sent letters, signed petitions and sent emails. Being honest with ourselves this has not changed anything.
Let’s also be honest – noone other than me (other Celtic fans and fans of other SPL clubs) is going to do anything about it.
So what can I do. What can fellow Celtic fans do and what can fans of other clubs do? There is only one thing we can do and that is to boycott games.
I will not boycott Celtic home games. But I will never ever spend another £1 at another clubs’ ground.
If everyone did that then they will have to listen. Sponsors will not be happy. Other SPL clubs will not be happy. Something will have to change.
If it doesn’t change then this is the end of Scottish football.
This is not a level playing field. They are not even trying to dress it up anymore. If we don’t do something now they will walk over us for forever and a day.
I am not prepared to let that happen.
One thing does make me happy. I now know and can prove to everyone that I am not paranoid.
Noone will look out for us. We need to look out for ourselves.
Right.
We despise the proposed rule changes.
D and P despise the proposed rule changes.
RST et all despise the proposed rule changes.
Sounds like some simple lobbying of the other league members will be all that is needed to kybosh the whole thing????
I for one don’t want DandP or the RST to be upset by these changes……
FFS It seems Celtic supporters have finally taken their heids out of the effin sand.
Heyzeus. Did you all flicking fink I was joking when I detailed my correspondance with Neil Dickcaster back in February when he alluded to the SPL doing the very thing that they have announced they will do today. Maybe the correspondance was too feckin long and boring for you all to read. I must be the only four king Tim who is not surprised. I’m not even angry at the SPL. I’m more angry at you lot and Celtic fans in general for sleep walking into this.
For forks sake. Get involved. Do Ferkin something for once. Get the boycotts going and if requested support them. Otherwise your supporting to be the foundation holding up the SPL. Get your ferkin pens and paper out. Actually write a ferkin letter to Neil Doncaster. Make sure his personal post bag will require a four kin HGV to deliver it.
Oh wait a minute. No don’t bother. It’s too ferkin late. Just keepin moaning your faces off on CQN.
MWD p1ss3d off with the Celtic support more than I am with the SPL. Gutless!!!
Any further updates on the investigation into sectarian singing at the recent Rankers v. Kilmarnock game..?
When should we expect to learn of the outcome…?
hamiltontim on 11 April, 2012 at 23:00
A steer from the club is the only way I can think of that we might be able to work towards and achieve a consensus.
canamalar
Sky have conference games on a Friday night so I think you’re correct we would be able to negotiate some sort of TV deal. But would it compare to what we currently generate from live football revenue? When would we be playing? It’s bad enough having to leave at 6am to travel to Inverness. Ross County now need to be taken into the equation.
I just cannot get my head around any proposal that would see Celtic suffer as a result of hun greed.
No liquidation, no CVA, no relegation.
Just pay your debts in full plus interest and live within your means. Might take them 15 years to do, but acceptable to me.
Will not happen though. To easy in today’s society to live beyond your means and allow somebody else to foot the bill
HH
CRC
Papa John
I hope you are well my friend.
I just told my missus about today’s events,and she said : “No!……that’s diabolical!”
She also believes that it’s the Masons at the heart of it.
She’s an English Celt & has been to Paradise to see The Bhoys,singin’ like a mad yin with the rest of us,and she absolutely knows the importance of this horrendous scandal.
I’m glad she’s here to keep me grounded.
I can’t see any argument against boycotting.
tttt,
such a positive move from the board to show it is trying to support fair and just competition is a waste of time then ???
I doubt such legal battles would be heard in front of any jury so no wild card or reduction of charges, neither could it be conducted in private.
So aye I expect we would win any case based on evidence.
However your response is a bit negative towards a suggestion which would benefit both Celtic and scottish football, what do you suggest ????
.
macjay1 for Neil Lennon on 11 April, 2012 at 22:58 said:
Priorities.
I`d rather lose the Scottish Cup than Fraser Forster.
..
Well Said..I Would rather Lose the Treble than Lose My Bhoy Georgious..
Oh Wait..:O)
Summa
T4
You don’t think we could outperform a corrupt SPL in the medium term in all departments?
Yes we might be needing to be patient for all of 2 seasons. Don’t think it would take much more than that. Better control of revenue streams would offset the euro income, but I fully accept not the games themselves. Still if we’re on a mission we need to accept some ups and downs?
There are times when there is so much going on, so many factors and influences which might produce such a variety of outcomes that there is no option but to stop and apply first principles.
We are probably at that stage now with Rangers and if we’re not we soon will be with the imminent FTT tribunal decision.
So , first principles – What is football in Scotland?
The simple answer to that is obvious. It’s sport. The pitting of two teams of sportsmen against each other and , to the victor on the pitch , the spoils.
It’s concept which is as simple as the game itself is. Its in that simplicity that the beauty of the Beautiful Game lies and, despite all the metaphors and claims about its wider , more important than life significance , that’s all it is.
The fact that the game has become so phenomenally successful as a sport and business doesn’t really change any of that.
It is all , however , predicated on one unalienable principle – that fans watching the game , in person or on television, believe the outcome to be determined purely by what happens on the pitch, by the strengths and weaknesses of the players involved , illuminated occasionally by genius.
Take that principle away and the game itself and any game as part of it become a meaningless charade, as true and worthwhile as WWF wrestling.
And that’s the point here.
For although, for years, the football authorities and the press in particular have treated Scottish football fans as brainless idiots who will buy any nonsense fed to them the world in which all football operates has changed beyond recognition, even in Scotland.
The credibility of the MSM , shredded for years privately among Celtic fans and thereafter on influential websites such as CQN and RTC , is now being openly mocked by journalists of a credibility and gravitas beyond anything the LL can ever hope to achieve. So much so that even the constituency who thought they gained the most but, in fact , have gained the least from the Succulent Lamb mentality – Rangers fans – have now seen through their sycophancy and dereliction of duty.
What’s more , social networking can educate and galvanise groups of individuals into effective action with a speed and efficiency inconceivable even five years ago.
The old maxim that you can’t fool all of the people all of the time needs updated. I don’t believe you can fool all of the people any of the time now.
Any attempt to parachute a Newco into the SPL is an attempt to fool at least some of the people that the basic principle of football I mention above can and should be compromised for financial reasons. I don’t believe football fans , Celtic or not , in Scotland will fall for that. Whether the chairmen will is another matter but if they misread the feeling of fans on this they will be signing the death warrant for Scottish football.
Can there be many fans of any other team in Scotland who feel differently from the majority view on here? I seriously doubt it. Sporting integrity demands that Rangers are punished for years of buying trophies and Champions League participation with other peoples’ money. Not a cruel and unusual punishment but an appropriate punishment nevertheless. Nothing more , nothing less.
Some things ARE about more than money. For true football fans the integrity of football , indeed any sport , is one of them.
If the SPL chairmen misunderstand their market so fundamentally that they fail to see that we won’t need a boycott. The game in Scotland will die of apathy anyway.
I ask this question again for anyone who would advocate us giving up on supporting Celtic.
For 130 odd years we played in a league where we knew that one of the member clubs operated a policy of religious apartheid.
Were we complicit? No
Did we support it?
Why resign now?
Ernie
why are you willing to play Russian Roulette with the future of
our club.
Why should we take any kind of hit on this.
We are quite capable of standing up and fighting our
corner here
Are you willing to pay maybe 3 times the price of a season
ticket to make up for the lost revenue involved in playing in a lower division.
All that would happen is that we would be lost in the wilderness
with the orcs laughing at the stupid Tims
The spl made a statement today, the spl are made up of member clubs, said member clubs must have been party to the proposed changes.
Think about it.
Ernie
I certainly ain’t promoting rolling over. But neither am I so single minded as to class a Celtic which responds to changes in application in a way less than my perfectly black and white view, as ‘an Old Firm Celtic’…
We’re all just reacting and responding right now. My intended message to you was that a righteous act by Celtic right now would be welcomed by all and sundry. And it would be laughed at. As would any players fleeing the club. And any subsequent failures to gain promotion (God Forbid!).
No one. Certainly not me is telling you to roll over. Your passion is too strong I fear for that. But I would counsel you to consider every option.
Every option that benefits Celtic. Not hinders them.
Corrupt?
Take your pick? I agree this one is David Copperfield in scale. But extensiongate? Whilst a future monkey presided over there SFA? Some attacks our manager at his place of work? Sends him bombs? Dallas?
These things ain’t just symptoms – they’re systemic processes of the disease.
Yep we all thought the Gers virus was going to crash and burn without another host to vampirically host. But no, seems we have our new Renfield.
I wish you noting support. But only if we can relate and discuss mate.
X
U