Resolutions to be voted on at the 30 April meeting are proposals from the Scottish Premier League executive (Neil Doncaster). They have nothing to do with the Gang of 10 nor are they a Duff and Phelps/Rangers conspiracy. The resolutions are not set in tablets of stone and have no authority in their own right. The League has form in voting down executive resolutions, in particular overthrowing plans for a 10 team league last year, so, in theory, the votes could go for or against.
Neil Doncaster, being as thorough as he is, has almost certainly shared his plan with the man along the corridor at Hamden, SFA chief exec, Stewart Regan. He is also likely to have taken guidance from the Uefa executive, specifically CEO David Taylor, formerly of this parish. It would be unnecessarily lax to leave legislative loose ends before embarking on such a radical plan, so forget about any intervention by the SFA (cough) or Uefa.
Putting preconceived notions aside (if I can), the resolutions are flawed.
Asking for 8 clubs to vote for a Newco to be allowed into the league, but requiring 11 to vote for a financial penalty to be imposed for an Insolvency Transfer, is beyond ridiculous. The former provision – the gift of continuity to a defaulter – is easy to achieve. The latter – the punishment for defaulting – is unnecessarily difficult. Duff and Phelps will need the support of only one club – let’s say Dunfermline, who are brogue-to-brogue with them anyway and due to relegation will not be affected by the financial penalty, will vote with them. Why would Doncaster put such a high bar on setting financial penalties?
Arbitrary voting thresholds smack of gerrymandering. Can anyone explain this in any other way?
There will now be a period of debate between clubs; Celtic will oppose any provision for a Newco to enter the league. Duff and Phelps will be in the opposite corner. You can expect to hear wailing and gnashing from Rangers (IA) along the same ridiculous lines they have used ahead of the SFA hearings into the behaviour of the club in advance of, and after, Craig Whyte’s purchase of the club. On that occasion, Duff and Phelps argued that the actions of Rangers’ new owner, or the failure of the old board to conduct their business correctly, should not lead to a penalty on the club.
It doesn’t matter how lax or severe the proposed penalties, Duff and Phelps will oppose them. Anything lessening of the penalty is worth money to the proposed new buyers of Rangers, so let’s view everything Duff and Phelps say in pound notes.
Rangers have unpaid bills potentially running up to £134mm that’s medicine, operations, road repairs and Help for Heroes. Allowing them to ditch their history and start afresh, where owners profit by securing a floating charge over the stadium, where fans can continue to be provided with a team in the league, creates an unprecedented moral hazard. It rewards irresponsibility and would create a queue of clubs ready to do the same.
And on the point of ditching their history… I openly mock anyone who uses phrases like Hybrid Liquidation. You don’t get Hybrid Liquidation, Partial Liquidation or Liquidation Lite. You cannot buy or sell history, as Duff and Phelps tried (and failed, I think) to convince Rangers fans. Liquidation would mean Rangers Football Club, established in 1873 (or 1872 as they now claim), incorporated in 1899, is finished.
Just pay your bills and do us all a favour.
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ernie lynch on 11 April, 2012 at 23:04 said
I suspect the 3rd division would take us but why should we go there whilst the huns walk straight back into the top division, with guaranteed champions league money for the forseeable (even after they work through their 3-year ban).
If we go to the 3rd division, our turnover plumetts overnight. No tv money, no sponsorship, very little gate money, etc. No money = no players. Would Hooper, Sami etc stay if we were paying them £1k per week? No chance
We would get back to the top division in the minimum time but financially handicapped for years to come.
Yes, the principled thing would be to tell the SFA/SPL and their cronies to shove it and go somewhere else. Yes, there may be somewhere to go, but I dont see why we should do the time when it has been the huns who have committed the crime
As i said, bloggers can come up with ‘great’ ideas but dont have to consider, or take the blame for, the potential consequences.
lucky cody- Could also be the reason why Celtic didn’t sign it? Hope it is the first of a few cards we are holding.HH
That quintessentially British club has strengthened its link with England.
It seems to have bought Doncaster.
tomthelennytim on 11 April, 2012 at 23:03 said:
I accept your comment but the main point of the analogy is that it would be illogical to lash out at an innocent target. Anyway, it has been a trying day for all of us, I’m tired and I’m off to bed.
Hail Hail
Senor Pablo Diablo on 11 April, 2012 at 23:08 said:
My earlier posts have reflected this mate. We can all talk about boycotts of away grounds but it can’t be indefinite and it must be organised. CFC can and should take a lead if there is a desire amongst the support to see this through.
Close down this thread.
MWD has spoken.
It’s all our fault.
HT
Their sectarian employment policy, whilst disgusting, disadvantaged them in a competitive sense.
What they have done for the last generation is to cheat to their ADVANTAGE rather than their disadvantage.
We have a unique opportunity to make a big change here. We need to do something more radical with some risk to take advantage of that.
The alternative is REINFORCING what’s there now.
HH
Beginning to hate rangers newco more then the grubby old version.
How is it possible for rnagers newco to be bigger cheats then the old horribles?
Never thought for one second the blue team in Glasgow would be playing anything other than SPL football next season regardless of them losing the big tax case and liquidation and been found gullity of double contracts for the past umpteen years. Said before Relegation is a Celtic fans fantasy.
However why would the SPL want to give a new club free of huge debts even 25% of prize money? Just doesn’t make any sense and Moonbeams is right we should all write to Mr Doncaster and ask him the thinking behind this shocker of a proposal.
Anyway first things first get Big Fraser signed.
hamiltontim
Have just fallen from cloud 9, been hovering since the w/end,however God give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot Change, by God its hard being a TIM, I don’t expect it will ever be any different in my time,thought we had seen a chink of light after last season re getting a fair crack of the whip, NO CHANCE.
However just a case of KTF.
Awerabest PJ
Kighon
Who else fault is it. Can’t be your intestines as you’ve been keeping a close eye on that this last few months with your heids all stuck up your own arses.
MWD
Summa of Sammi…. hope you are well.
Time to leave Scotland. Ask any other clubs if they want to start a league with teams in Ireland and Wales.
Tell the SFA to stick their 2 years notice.
I wish you nothing but support – was one of the many spelling errors – sorry mate
U
Art of War on 11 April, 2012 at 21:51 said:
Any entity has a drive to survive and the SPL’s motivation is to do what it thinks necessary for its survival, If Rangers benefit that is a secondary.
But this is were the system itself breaks down.
Donacaster gets paid on how successul the SPL is, probably measured in terms of turnover and profit. The last thing he will be thinking of is sporting integrity, it will hit his take home pay.
It is for this reason that checks and balances are required and the trouble is the SFA are not as focussed on sporting integrity as they should be, not surprising given the SPL men on committees etc.
So we need the SFA to act out what should be their prime directive. But what exactly is it? The answer is they do not know! This is taken from the Mcleish Review. They are still working on what they are for but what an opportunity to show it.
” There is very little dispute as to the importance of the SFA and what, in the broadest of terms, it should strive to achieve as a governing body, namely governance with integrity; effective working relationships with the two other bodies, the SPL and the SFL and the myriad of organisations that
make up the game; the provision of the laws of football and an effective oversight of their implementation; the promotion of participation, standards, and financial well-being of the game; the fostering of development at all levels; a constructive dialogue with government and other
sports; and effective representation of the game in Scotland and internationally. The work of the SFA has become progressively less suitable and less effective in the light of these limited objectives to carry out its role in the modern game especially at a time when the scale of economic, social and life style change continues to dominate and have such a direct impact on football and the conditions in which it operates
This has created the need for arrangements that may have worked well in the past to be modified and to evolve in order to accommodate the needs of modern football. Some of these changes may have to extensive so as to ensure the SFA exercises the appropriate levels of authority and institutional leadership which are required. There seems little argument about the lack of clarity, the fragmentation, the lack of direction, the lack of coherence, the lack of purpose, the lack of MISSION and core values and an organisation modelled for a different era that lacks a modern
approach and is failing to establish the right level of trust and confidence in the wider football world and beyond. All of these characteristics are heavily influenced by history, traditions and sentiment which are real obstacles to the SFA fulfilling its role in current times. Change is also intimidating. This has led to some frustration and tension, which has undermined the authority and the effectiveness of the organisation.”
ht,
I think maybe another wee look at the strategy, I did not mention sky, I would hope as there is no current tv deal then chanel67 would be the medium used to increase the profile of the sfl, a boost to both Celtic and the sfl, I expect it would cost the club initially.
As part of the suggested redraft of rule of association, tv contract do will have no impact on kick-off times except were both teams agree to broadcaster suggestions.
As I said we would be taking dunfermline’s place and ross county would be promoted.
But why would the destination of any Caltic game be a problem ?
As I said maybe a wee reread of what I said, theres more substance than you initially thought.
so,
lets look at the end of the season.
Hibs results have taken a turn for the worst and they are to be relegated.
Law Abiding, tax paying, players fully registered , fiscally sound Hibs are to be relegated.
As per them there SPL shares ownership, their share goes to Ross County.
All well and good.
thems the rules.
Another club, further up the league suffer an Insolvancy event.
But under the new proposal, can reform as a New Company, and “be passed on”
the share to operate in the league.
This is fair to Hibs how ?
row z
As usual you make good points that are blinking hard to argue with :-))
However, there seems to be a clamour amongst some that Celtic should resign/apply for entry to League 1 or 3.
The reason cited for this is that we shouldn’t be complicit in a league which in essence advocates and benefits cheating. The argument doesn’t appear to be against the huns per se (well not if this evenings posts are anything to go by) but the league and structure which would permit them re entry.
For 130 odd years we knew their policy yet we still participated.
Why?
Because it wasn’t us who were at fault.
hamiltontim on 11 April, 2012 at 23:16 said:
We couldn’t stop their signing policy.
We, or at least the Board, can stop this.
It seems though that most fans don’t have the bottle for the fight.
They want the nice comfortable certainty of the staus quo.
If this goes ahead it’s no longer a sport, just a business.
Old Firm Celtic, less than a Club, just the weaker half of The Old Firm.
Still, look on the bright side. Still in the SPL.
row Z/Canamalar – firstly, I entirely endorse what ht has said at the top of the page and would even go as far to call some fans hypocrites for putting up with everything we’ve endured in our history and then walking away now!
Anyway, back to your point, Sorry, but I just can’t entertain the thought of our club, which has done nothing wrong, effectively deciding to demote itself. It’s ridiculous, we’re the main victims here.
In addition, if the Revenue batters THEM over the big tax case and they’re found guilty over the alledged dual contracts, then we might even have a case against them for defrauding a PLC.
I’ve posted on here before that I could see a compromise that most parties could buy into, i.e. major reorganisation of Scottish football. Auld Heid and Bada Bing have offered similar opinions.
One governing body with much tighter controls, larger SPL1 and new SPL2, with regional structure below that, like Italy. Play-offs for promotion/relegation and an EL place. The Newco entity starts in SPL2, with of course no chance of Euro football for 3 years.
My overwhelming preference, as CRC stated, is that they pay their bloody debts and limp on for years to come!
T4
Let me think!!!!
Hmmmm.
1. We could boycott – No that’s no use we’d miss our days out.
2. We could resign from SPL – uccchhh na. Where would we go?
3. We could complain to anyone who’d listen by writing to UEFA, FIFA, etc… – No doing that I’d get a sore wrist and I’d need to buy a stamp. There 60p now-a-days you know.
4. Write to Celtic and let them know you are expecting them to fight – that’s that sore wrist and stamp thing again.
I will be writing to Peter Lawell tomorrow. I’ll be asking that if this goes through that Celtic refuse to recognise any Newco and refuse to play them. That will scupper any SKY TV deal. If the SPL impose fines we refuse to pay them. If they attempt to throw us out we take them through the courts along with the SFA. That should put paid to Scotland or clubs playing in UEFA or FIFA competitions – then again! I might just join you all and have a right good look at my large intestine.
MWD
Auldheid
The SFA’s prime directive is the advancement of Rangers FC and its “people”.
It seems that’s also the prime directive of Doncaster and the SPL.
What would Bob Kelly have done?
ernie lynch from much earlier today
I said no CVA despite any amount of SPL chicanery, – that was all.
At the time some posts suggested SPL rule changes were the be all and the end all, of Ragers woe’s, which of course they are not.
This has some way to run, yet.
Saint Stivs on 11 April, 2012 at 23:32 said:
“This is fair to Hibs how ?”
You have used a word that has long since been deleted from Scottish Football glossary.
If only I had written to Neil Doncaster in February, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Kinhog
ernie lynch on 11 April, 2012 at 23:38 said:
What would Bob Kelly have done?
———————
lets just phone a friend.
hello fergus in bermuda, aye we have a corrupt SFA and SPL disadvantaging the celtic, could you answer the call and don the sacred bunnet one more time please.
I will post this again.
THE EXILED TIM on 11 April, 2012 at 23:19 said:
The spl made a statement today, the spl are made up of member clubs, said member clubs must have been party to the proposed changes.
Think about it.
MWD
Neck in please
I actually agree with your last paragraph – and I’ll write the letter.
Don’t be so harsh.
You won’t change the inaction of the inactive – but you might switch off the uninformed…
X
U
I am not sure just why we all getting so wound-up by today’s attempts to keep our stricken neighbours on the life-support machine.
We all knew that every dodgy deal imaginable would be tried keep the patient breathing.
None of it makes the slightest difference.
This patient is already DEAD.
All the wishing, hoping, scheming, cheating, colluding, swindling & all the hand-shaking, nodding & winking CANNOT revive this corpse.
It is no more.
Its rancid soul is already in the deepest pit in Hell.
If there are forces in our country which want to pretend that it is still alive, let them get on with it
Just don’t join them.
Sit back quietly & watch as they go through the processes of dealing with their loss.
They have already done the anger & denial
Now they are at the bargaining stage.
Depression,… & finally acceptance are inevitable.
Just might take a wee bit longer than you would expect.
BE STILL & KNOW…………………
iki on 11 April, 2012 at 23:40 said:
Saint Stivs on 11 April, 2012 at 23:32 said:
“This is fair to Hibs how ?”
You have used a word that has long since been deleted from Scottish Football glossary.
—————————–
I know, but what happens when the new company is the club to be relegated.
do they pass on their share to a new company ?
i just had a father dougal moment
Moonbeams WD. Kano \o/ Neil Celtic FC. We are the Champions. Ignore the WARTS. on 11 April, 2012 at 23:36 said:
Let me think!!!!
Hmmmm.
1. We could boycott – No that’s no use we’d miss our days out.
—————————————————————————————
You know me. Rarely do I drink at away games. It’s not, as you term it, ‘a day out’.
It’s supporting Celtic at considerable personal expense and not just financially.
lets be honest its all about money and fans are again second best. other club’s fans will also be angry about this. celtic should be taking legal actions against the spl re: loss of income poor regulations etc… sue for millions and take them to task with regard their tainted titles, just because we can
if we can force an exit we should but all this stuff about celtic resigning going to third division no, we need to petition european governing bodies
What if someone, say, an “insider”, happened to have copies of specific RFC player contract details submitted to the SPL?
What if someone, say, an “insider”, happened to be given access to EBT payment details for the same specific players?
What if there are clear discrepancies?
What if an SPL investigation fails to uncover discrepancies?
What if the details of the discrepancies subsequently become public knowledge?
Would someone at the SPL have to take the Jim Farry route?
Alex Thomson is right. This is potentially the biggest corruption scandal in British sporting history. Even before the re-writing of rules to allow a new company, which looks and smells exactly the same as the old company but without any debts, to leap frog all the Scottish football clubs in the other three divisions straight into the SPL.
This is a Hollywood story unfolding before our eyes.
Here’s the history
If Rangers (IA) are so opposed to the new proposals, they will vote against them. That will be at least 2 votes against. Will it not?
Ernie – You’ve supported Celtic through religious apartheid, Farrygate, Dougie Dougie, Minty’s financial doping and all the blatant acts of cheating over the years, but now you want to walk away. Just when we really need to unite behind the club.
Going by your earlier posts, you have absolutely no idea what could happen if they called our bluff on resigning from the SPL, but you want us to just go ahead and do it anyway.
Thank God we’ve got visionaries like you setting the agenda on the blog today!
T4
Sabre67
I would imagine RTC would have the info you are talking about, he has alluded that he has, he could be biding his time for the FTT to conclude, well I hope he is. but after todays shenagins, I won’t be holding my breath.
ernie lynch on 11 April, 2012 at 23:35 said:
hamiltontim on 11 April, 2012 at 23:16 said:
We couldn’t stop their signing policy.
We, or at least the Board, can stop this.
It seems though that most fans don’t have the bottle for the fight.
They want the nice comfortable certainty of the staus quo.
If this goes ahead it’s no longer a sport, just a business.
Old Firm Celtic, less than a Club, just the weaker half of The Old Firm.
Still, look on the bright side. Still in the SPL.
—————————————————————————
No we couldn’t stop it ernie but we continued to play in league, against the culprits, for 130 years.
I’ve said to you before I will make my feelings known to Celtic and I will boycott and I will make banners and I will do whatever it takes to make anyone who cares to listen, how I feel about a newco entry into the SPL. But I will not stop supporting Celtic and if that makes me a ‘joke’ supporter of a ‘joke’ team in your eyes then so be it.