I caught an online synopsis of Rangers’ owner Craig Whyte’s recent meeting with a group of the club’s fans last night. The group report that Whyte hopes, “’Rangers Football Club Plc’ could survive any administration event but feels it would not be the end of the world if it didn’t.”
We can all agree, it sure wouldn’t be the end of the world if that particular entity didn’t survive, although I suspect Mr Whyte is alluding to the possibility of a new club emerging. Celtic Quick News first raised the liquidation scenario back in October and explained a prepack route for Rangers Newco FC. If a football company goes into liquidation a secured creditor, in Rangers case this would be Craig Whyte, can retain control of key assets, such as the stadium, but would not own a football club which was part of any league structure.
In Scotland any Newco FC would have to apply for membership of the Scottish Premier League or Scottish Football League. A simple majority of the SPL board (three votes required) would be enough to vote a club into the SPL. The board currently has representatives from Celtic, Dundee United, Motherwell and St Johnstone, as well as SPL chief exec, Neil Doncaster. It is chaired by Ralph Topping, who only votes in the event of a stalemate.
If Rangers lose their tribunal against Her Majesty’s tax authorities (think of her underequipped soldiers), Celtic will not be the only club who will consider the commercial and competitive disadvantage they suffered while paying their taxes for the last 12 years, but they may be one of the few clubs that would survive without the sponsorship and TV income dependent on a club with the Rangers brand participating in the league. Celtic would vote against allowing Rangers into the league but I can see zero chance of Dundee United, St Johnstone, Motherwell or Neil Doncaster doing the same. If the board voted Newco FC into the league, the liquidation of Rangers would not be the end of the world; a football club would die but another could quickly emerge at the same location, selling tickets to the same people.
Opening positions on what sporting cost Newco FC should face for league entry were taken months ago when it was reported that Rangers would fight “tooth and nail” against a 25 point penalty on a Newco. A 25 point penalty on the phoenix of a failed club after 12 seasons of financial benefit would be an insufferable insult. This amounts to little more than a the loss of a single league title. 12 seasons of benefit should result in a 12 seasons of penury at the insolvency-event rate of 10 points per season. Small cost for the enormous gift of a league place and a huge football franchise. The SPL must also strike from the record any financially doped titles won by clubs still in existence or not.
Can you imagine if Peter Lawwell said, “It wouldn’t be the end of the world if Celtic PLC didn’t survive”! There would be an impromptu media village outside Celtic Park that would rival the Obama inauguration in size. Huge story sitting on a plate just waiting to be written up. Or not.
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PeteC
I’m inclined to agree with you. It is the red-card-saving McCulloch histrionics that stick in the mind.
Fancy Beram Kayal’s season being so curtailed by a thug who should never have been on the field in the first place.
It’s enough to make you want to break into a chorus of, ‘That’s why we’re paranoid’.
saltires- Not sure if he is? He’s mad enough, mind you!
Not been watching BBC4 but I assume the son of a Celtic man is this hero:
Gil Scott-Heron – Enough
Not performing that particular piece, I guess.
“I hope you do not think that a vote for John Kennedy took you off my shit-list because in the street there will only be black and white. There will be no Democrats, Republicans, Liberals, Conservatives, Moderates, or any other of the rest of that shit you have used to make me forget to hate.
“There ain’t no enough. There ain’t no surrender. There is only plot and plan, move and groove, kill. There is no promise dland. There is only the promise. The promise is my vow – until we have been nerve gassed, shot down and murdered, or done some of the same ourselves. Look over your shoulder motherfucker, I am coming.
Of course, Diane Abbott would have had to call that racist.
Sheriff Fatman,
M’Lud there is a lot of logic in that line of thinking, although I am not sure that I would want to see the powers that be consider two applications from two phoenix companies arising out of two of the largest teams in Scotland.
That may be more than the wee souls could cope with intelligently!
davythelotion says:
7 January, 2012 at 00:30
Rebels of the Sacred Heart, Flogging Molly
“Three sheets to the wind……!!!”
CLASSIC CHOON!!!
Starryhope
tarrant
the very same -playing jo’burg
tarrant
respect
HH
MWD
At the time (in November) it is what they believed. Only time will tell with this one, but the questions should be asked now, and the arguments presented NOW.
The biggest danger is it all happens so fast, everyone panics and CW gets what he wants, simply to ensure the fixtures are fulfilled, however if the FTT result isn’t announced until the league is finished then there is time to come up with a solution without the panic decisions.
I’ve posted many times on this previously and JF covered a lot of views earlier.
There is soon going to be a decision made by Scottish Football which will have far reaching and long term ramifications for the game in this country. There will be one of the 2 big clubs suffer from the wrongs of one of those clubs, our game would be morally bankrupt if it is Celtic who suffer – unfortunately it is a very real possibility. I don’t envy our own board’s position, irrespective what they do they’ll be blamed if the huns get back in with minimal punishment – that’ll be catastrophic for Celtic.
There is so many permutations and possibilities around what could happen with the huns, I just hope that our board are taking their corporate responsibility serious and formulating their strategies against all the What-if scenarios. It would be an abject failure on their part if they’re not.
hh
bjmac
PS BRTH – you’ve still no really answered the question I posed back in November ;-)
tarrant says:
6 January, 2012 at 23:51
In my experience Celtic are open to good ideas presented in a civil manner, if a bit slow (to my thinking) in acting on them, which makes it difficult to know where they are going.
It then becomes a question of trusting they will get it right.
I’m not convinced Celtic would be the biggest obstacle to new rangers as other clubs will have more to gain with no rangers in the league. IMO Aberdeen, Dunfermline, Hibs would be alot less likely to vote in favour of rangers than Celtic.
With Rangers in the league other SPL clubs may get say 5% of the TV contract.
If there is no rangers the TV contract would be less but their share would be greater. With the net difference not so great.
On the other hand Celtic’s TV income would maybe take the biggest hit depending on how much they could get from any new deal.
It would be interesting to know what percentage of Celtic’s income is due directly from it’s rivalry with rangers.
tarrant –
You express anger at how some Irish football fans favour English clubs rather than Celtic.
With all due respect, what makes you believe that Celtic have an automatic right to the support of any football fan, wherever they live and whatever their background?
Hail Hail
great stuff, Paul…
12 seasons of benefit should result in a 12 seasons of penury at the insolvency-event rate of 10 points per season. Small cost for the enormous gift of a league place and a huge football franchise. The SPL must also strike from the record any financially doped titles won by clubs still in existence or not.
very well said !
BRT&H
Yes. You are 100% correct. The wording does make a pedigree chum (or could I say LAPTOP LOYAL) of this.
MWD
tarrant says:
7 January, 2012 at 00:51
———————–
evening bud.
did you catch my response to your commendable O’Higgins post the other night.
Auld Heid
You back in the country?
Hope all is well.
hh
bjmac
saltires en sevilla 01:01
bunburybhoy 01:02
What a man. Missed him in Edinburgh a couple of times in the 90s, although one of them was his fault, “cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances” (he was in jail!)
I got into GS-H through PE and Disposable Heroes (RRC posted a link yesterday to Television…) and through that found that his da was a Tim. Not a Tim like me, but an actual wore-the-Hoops lived-the-dream Tim. Saw an interview with Gil abnout 20 years back where he related his dad’s account of life in Scotland. Seemed to be largely positive, although he learned the word “darkie” and enjoyed passing it on to all his pals in Illnois.
Probably my most useful post ever on CQN was about GSH, when he died last May, and his influence on rap music; it got a good reaction at the time. Certainly his work, and the work of the artists he influenced, has had an entirely positive influence on my life and the way I relate to other people, and my attempts to see life from the viewpoint of others.
A Prayer For Everyone
BJmac
I understand the points you are making but…
Is the position put forward in Paul’s article what our club believe to be the case or is it what they hope the support to believe.
My opinion. It is what they want us to believe. But then. I am sceptical when it comes to our PLC.
Any Newco re-entry to the SPL will require reconstruction with an increase in members to afford the team to be relegated a safety net. But then again if we fall for Celtic PLC then theirs will be a vote in the SPL BOARD wilderness.
More fool the fools.
MWD
Celtic_First says:
7 January, 2012 at 00:57
I have doubts that Neil will not be using what elbows done to Beram as a motivational tool. ;)
All that matters this season is the League and I am sure Neil knows that keeping calm is the real way to make sure we win it, they can’t attack from that angle then, their FALSE praise of him being “Loved” by the media is their Satanic/counterfeit reversal stuff.
We just need to strengthen all the weak points to make sure they don’t get entries. The GREEN BRIGADE have made sure all the players are protected.
It takes a long time to see the big picture but all we can do is support each other because we are really up against a very dark force.
HH
tarrant
truly inspiring stuff
good to see the whistle test give his dad a mention too
HH
glad the musak has been of usual high standard
been a bad day- cost me 250 to have my engine drained having filled it up with the wrong fossil stuff
now the jameson is empty and only some horrid cans of carlsberg lager that no-one wanted and going out of code
or
i can open the johnny walker green label none of youse tubes could win when I put it up for crackerjack friday quiz ;-)
decisions, decisions
Tom,
fair point. I don’t believe that Celtic, or any other club, have an entitlement to support from a particular group of people.
I am probably more broadly resentful of the demise of Irish (FAI) football in general, which is partially (but not wholly) attributable to the rise of Match of the Day and coverage of English football.
I’m also responding to the general assumption among Scottish Celtic fans that Ireland is a hotbed of Celtic support, and less widespread but quite insidiously superior in a way, that Irish Tims are the best (and I say that as an Irish Tim).
My experience of supporting Celtic, and Celtic supporters, in Ireland (mostly Dublin) is that there is a small number of travelling support compared to those who travel to Old Trafford, Anfield, and even Sundireland.
I often wonder if there’s a naive assumption among Celtic supporters and/or the Club itself about the nature and extent of support for the Club in Ireland.
I would also say that in my experience I am talking about the unoccupied 26 counties.
BJmac
I’m not saying that Paul67’s article is playing to the PLC hymn sheet. No! Not at all just that i disagree with his understanding of the SPL rules and articles and question those who have confirmed the SPL board vote to be fact.
MWD
bankiebhoy1 says:
6 January, 2012 at 22:49
O ro se de bheath bhaile…………
is this it ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AFRCWg_kOc&feature=related
MWD
I also understand what you’re asking and your opinion, I don’t agree. Why would PL/Celtic Board put that out as being how it will work if they know it needs to go to a full vote, they have nothing to gain from that, other than appearing incompetent for not knowing the rules of the SPL which they are part of and help form.
I believe as long as RTC, Paul67 and the many great contributors continue to push how wrong this is, then there is a small chance they’ll get what they deserve.
I believe there is 2 things which would ensure they do get what they deserve.
Firstly, Paint the picture to all the clubs of what the league could be like, a vision of how Scottish football could flourish, with the detail and facts to back it up – be radical – this would need to come from Celtic. I don’t have much hope.
The 2nd is threat of litigation to the SFA/SPL if the huns are simply allowed back in. Again this would likely need to come from Celt- it won’t happen, IMO.
So for me it will come down to timeing and how the rules actually DO work. If a 90% vote is required and it is May the FTT result is announced – the huns won’t win any vote. Celtic and the club in the relegation spot will vote against.
hh
bjmac
P67,
Happy New Year to you and your family, the steak pie recipe continues to be legendary!
Thanks for all you and your family do for our community, words cannot express our gratitude.
I noticed earlier in the week a debate about what makes a Celtic Supporter – note the use of Supporter, fans are those who turn up at cup finals and deny supporters tickets! I know a few who went to Seville and hadn’t been near CP in years.
I read recently that Celtic are Sky’s (uk) 4th biggest draw. Would the absence of Govan Rowers affect that significantly?
Probably not, so … If, when they go into liquidation surely the Sky package could be renegotiated in our favour?
Aberdeen would vote IMO (only) against them, as would Edinburgh Hibernians. Dunfermline doubt it, sometimes turkeys DO vote for Christmas!
Sanna – if you’re looking in – respect.
Hail! Hail!
DavieL
BJ Mac
First– away back to your sick bed with the hot lemony horrible tasting stuff etc etc– and get better soon. I will speak to you next week on other stuff.
Second.– It is a mad question to anser becuase in all honesty the rules and regulations are so badly written but for the sake of where I am with it just now– here goes.
Thhere are clear ambiguities in those rules, and at one point– son’t ask me the section as I am too knackered right now– it seems to indicate that the board have the right to deal with issues of membership, and so all that would be required would be the majority talked about by Paul 67.
However, there is then the clause in the articles of association of the company which says that any new member will only be admitted upon a the passing of a qualified resolution which seems to require 90% of the members to vote in favour. Whatsmore, these provisions specifically mention that these are the provisions which will govern any admission to the league other than by the normal rules of relegation and promotion.
Such a provision would appear to me to override any general power conferred upon the board and in the absence of anything else I don’t think the board ( should they be so minded ) would be on safe ground in telling the rest of the league to get stuffed and declare that any new application was a matter for them and them alone.
This is especially so where there is a specific provision which seems to determine that the whole company has to vote in relation to a specific resolution, and it is generally the case anyway as remember the board are at all times answerable to the members anyway.
What’s more, as it is clear that any member of the league must be entitled to hold a share in SPL Ltd, it is really the company law that prevails as to membership as varied by the rules that the company agrees to adopt in terms of league rules. As I recall, if the league rules and the company rules are at odds then it is the company rules that prevail unless there is a specific clause to the contrary.
In any company, it is not the board of directors who determine who shall or shall not be a member.
So, at this late hour, I am of the opinion that the clauses cannot mean that it is a simple majority of the board that is needed, but the vore of 90% of the company as a whole who would have to vote in favour of the sudden and unusual introduction of a new member.
Surely the board members would not want to carry the can any way and would want to cover their backs by putting the matter to the general vote? Nor would they want to be seen to cock it up– so all ends up it looks to me like a full league decision.
Even then there are problem because the SFA will come under huge scrutiny and criticism from the lower leagues if they are seen to protect the big boys. There are other sites that I have had a look at who are of the view that Rangers will get back in with a new Co just to protect the West of Scotland Duopoly on the major money in Scottish Football.
Dundonians of a blue hue are particularly vehement about being treated differently from their Glasgow colleagues.
But then there are so many other questions to ask about Eufa, past actions, disclosures and stewardship that it may well be easiest for the powers that be– and the men in the positions in the powers that be– to do the right thing and be seen to do the right thing.
The only thing I can guarantee with these rules is that we may well have one Auldheid but the twists and turns within or about the cusp of the rules will leave behind plenty of Sair Heids!!!
St Stivs
hi, yeah I saw it but didn’t reply at the time, was having offline grief with one of our other Friday night posters. My own fault, I started a conversation with the incoherent drunk at the bar.
You should holiday in Chile and proclaim your connections! The main street in Santiago must have a decent hotel you can blag into. He’s also very popular in Peru I believe. I love that you can go anywhere in the world, tell them you’re Irish, and get a positive reception. Um, except Scotland.
MWD, I agree with your interpretation of the rules.
DavieL says:
7 January, 2012 at 01:33
and respect right back at you –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6jqMwL3nTM
Celtic_First says:
7 January, 2012 at 00:21
Celtic might not be able to sue the SFA or Rangers, but I reckon shareholders would have a case and Celtic are answerable to them and the shareholders are not answerable to UEFA.
So unless a deal that is acceptable to shareholders is arrived at Celtic could not support it without being able to justify it to their shareholders.
None of the authorities involved, SPL,SFA or UEFA will want this to become litigious and it is the desire to avoid such an outcome that can be used to come to deal that satisfies the need for justice as well as being practical.
Tieing the justice to offset the benefits of the crime as well as introducing measures that ensure it cannot happen again is the underlying principle on which any deal should be struck if the situation arises.
Its a WONDERFUL life.
Being a Tim. ;)
tarrant –
Thanks for your response.
I can see where you are coming from.
During visits to Ireland when I was much younger, I often was left with raised eyebrows at the number of EPL shirts on display. I could not understand how any Irish football fan could support any non-Irish team other than the Celtic.
I have a female Irish friend here in Oz who cheers on the Gers, which troubled me, until I discovered that her late husband was a big Gers man from Fife.
As my granny was wont to say, “It taks aw sairts tae mak a world son!”
BRTH
Thank you for the comprehensive if somewhat tardy response ;-)
Just going shortly, slept on and off all day – still feel ropey.
Next week is no problem at all, I trust it will be quite straight forward anyway.
hh
bjmac
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Kano 1000 says:
7 January, 2012 at 01:33
That analysis makes sense and the wider/bigger the voting constiteuncy the harder it will be to predict an outcome.
Mair sairheids than a night in the Sarryheid!.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Kano 1000
It is clear the SFA would have difficulty deciding on what to do with a 2nd pheonix club but the favt they night habe to det a precedent with them, the added podibilty of hearts making a similar claim is, at least intersting, given the thought that the ground worrk for RFCnewco has been protected by the new TV agreement by the SFA.
No fan of Vlad, but think hid paranoia may be wel placed.
Let the monkeys work
PS
I assume your either a golter or a golf player, you ever played up north?
BRT&H
“Ther are clear ambiguities in those rules, and at one point– son’t ask me the section as I am too knackered right now– it seems to indicate that the board have the right to deal with issues of membership, and so all that would be required would be the majority talked about by Paul 67.”
It is article 14 – Transfer of shares.
Categorically and without question- for all the bluster and ambiguity – this article states (to paraphrase ) that the SPL board will act as per a General meeting and a ‘Qualified Resolution’.
How can that be misread unless you want to misread it? That is not a rhetorical Q.
MWD
tarrant says:
7 January, 2012 at 01:35
St Stivs
and you forgot Bolivia ! for that Simon Bhoy, pal of Bernado doh !
why isnt Chile called “Ohigvia” or some such other Rhodesia type nonsense.
dont get involved in any late night bar politics,
keep it too music, celtic, and joy of who we are.
you know it makes sense.
christy says it best, ride on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-z7M3FZv4E
In my opinion, the only way a newco Rangers should be allowed to remain in the SPL is on condition that thay make their official strip a an emerald green shirt, white shorts and orange socks, otherwise they start in the third division.
Hail Hail.