I know you don’t need to rehearse the Resolution 12 debate as you’ll know it instinctively now, but, as always, we are indebted to eyes outside of Scotland calling for insight and governance in the Scottish game on an issue only tangentially related.
Yesterday, The Offshore Game, ran a report that the SFA may have misled the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission inquiry into Rangers failure to register players on an industrial scale during their EBT years.
While the SFA were swatting away questions into how Rangers were cleared to participate in Uefa competitions in 2011, less than a year before disappearing into insolvency, chief operating officer, Andrew McKinlay inadvertently turned the spotlight on the reliability of evidence placed before Lord Nimmo Smith.
Questions around the awarding of Rangers Uefa licence in 2011 were asked in the dark as no one outside the club, SFA and Uefa knew what information had been submitted, and the SFA didn’t know what the club submitted to Uefa.
There was a belief that the club may have not disclosed a letter concerning the Wee Tax Case from HMRC to the SFA in 2011. Mr McKinlay wrote to the requisitioners saying that he “did not accept that” this information was not brought to the SFA’s attention in 2011 – two years before Nimmo Smith sat.
This assertion tidied up the Res 12 issue at Hampden, but as The Offshore Game makes clear, why on earth did the SFA’s evidence to Lord Nimmo Smith on the Wee Tax Case not reflect the correspondence they had on file? In short, it was accepted by all that schemes scrutinised by the Wee Tax Case were unlawful.
Nimmo Smith didn’t hear this, in fact, he heard was that Rangers tax schemes were legal, and concluded, therefore, as any other club could have used them, no sporting advantage was accrued.
The Offshore Game call for scrutiny of the SFA over this by the parliamentary Culture, Media and Sport select committee. This call will be magnified should the Supreme Court uphold HMRC’s position on the Big Tax Case.
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Right, which wan of you lot wants to know the name of my mother’s first pet, and my cats maiden name ?
C’mon now be a man and own up !
COYBIG.
Margaret McGill
Well the difference is that if someone has an opinion and has done his homework on when he/they/she think a wrong has been done then surely they should be allowed to go public, if the club can go public, then also so should they, and I don’t think it’s right that the bully should be able to get away with it, and staying anonymous gives the bully’s the end game, but I can see where the resolution guys are coming from, I don’t know if I would do that, but then again I’m not one of the four, hopefully no harm comes to anyone.
KEVINBHOY-ma auld gran used to ask me if I wanted roasted cheese for ma supper,that’s good enough for me:-),and thanks for the welcome
Bamboo,
There is an element of truth in that view.
Hills of the Observer admitted to me that there wasn’t the same cash available to cover all the stories and the practice was to take a lot of the stuff ” off the wires”.
However, a major story like this on their doorstep, involving a football Association, would be worth some of their budget, bearing in mind how much we know now ,from when about five years ago, when I was corresponding with David.
AN TEACH SOLAIS on 17TH NOVEMBER 2016 7:01 PM
TONY DONNELLY 67
Weren’t you at the AGM? I could have sworn that I saw there. HH
Yes I was, but I didn’t recall anyone going up to the podium that is why I asked, I was actually more interested in the res12 supporters forum and was doing a lot of reading, I just couldent get how that got to the floor on a vote, I found that one very strange, just my opinion.
Maybe the guys – like me – who’ve been calling for SFA reform have been wrong all this time; perhaps this is an organisation that can no longer BE reformed from the inside.
http://thecelticblog.com/2016/11/blogs/the-sfa-has-lied-so-much-i-wonder-if-they-even-know-what-the-truth-is-now/
TD67
If you think I’m giving up the Spanish sunshine to hear what I knew the Celtic Chairman was going to say as spokesman for Celtic then you overestimate my zeal.
If there were any questions to answer they then should have been addressed to the chair not any of the Res12 guys so their presence wasn’t necessary.
Celtic in making the statement were addressing shareholders on behalf of the PLC and did not need the requistioners there to support the statement. That would have made them weak.
On the other hand if The Chairman had thought input from us to the meeting was necessary I’m sure one of the remaining 2 in the country would have been present to meet that request but it would rather defeat the purpose of underlining Celtic’s commitment to the importance of good governance.
It’s not what is said that’s important, it’s who is saying it.
TONY
The Chair intimated that the new 2016 Resolution 12 ( Supporters Forum) was an extraordinary motion but was supported by the Board and Joe spoke in favour and was then overwhelmingly carried. I believe that you voted again on reasonable grounds.
Re the adjourned (2013) Res 12 I know that several people were prepared to speak but Ian Bankier’s comments that Board were prepared to work with our Res12 bhoys in progressing matters (I know, I know). I suppose that others thought that best to give them one last chance.
As the common politically improper phrase puts it, more than one way of skinning a cat.
I know that we have differences of opinion but at the end of the day I think that we share the same aim. HH
My question was answered politely, more of this please, thank you.
tonydonnelly67 on 17th November 2016 7:09 pm
“Who are these people? I want to know who these people are,”
ring a bell Tony?
Margaret McGill
The fat sleekit one.
Problems with internet connection, so Good Night CQN. Hopefully, 3 more points on slippery astroturf at Rugby Park tomorrow night.
HH
In the spirit of politeness and forgetting any related irony.
Tony, why do you believe Res12(2016) should not have been brought to the floor for shareholders to vote on it?
Is it because you disagree with it or because you are unaware of the process & discussions between the parties involved that came to agreement that this had merit and could possibly benefit both club and supporters of all affiliations within the Celtic family including independent supporters who will have a mechanism to join this albeit the mechanics haven’t quite been worked out with regards that?
MWD
tonydonnelly67 on 17th November 2016 7:40 pm
Yes! very good thats correct Tony!
Now for a bonus point do you see any distasteful analogy here with what the fat sleekit one said?
James Forrest
Good article. Culture change is necessary and I ve already blogged 3 years ago about how it can be done based on my experience of turning a Dept that was answerable only to itself to one that was answerable with its customers.
You turn SFA into a service provider with the means of measuring the level of service provided. I’d take on the job myself if I weren’t enjoying retirement.
One point you may have not picked up is SFA are snookered between Res12 UEFA licence and LNS.
If they did have the letteri in 2011 then why didn’t they reveal it?
If they didn’t have the letter then they should have because RFC had a duty to report it’s arrival on 20th May to SFA and UEFA.
If RFC did that on say 23 May then the SFA in sending UEFA the list of licenses they granted on 26th May,had a duty to tell UEFA of its existence as a material change since licence was granted in April on the grounds the liability was potential at 31st March.
If RFC did not provide that letter to SFA beforec 26th May 2011 then they broke the rules.
If it turned up at any time in 2011 after May then SFA are at fault not telling SPL.
A perfect snooker.
MWD
It was just to vague for me, it’s early doors, and lots to do on it as far as I’m concerned, to many ? Marks for me, ergo I voted against it, no big deal, .
LMCBHOY on 17TH NOVEMBER 2016 6:07 PM
Still fairly new on here, but not sure I wholly agree with the criticism of Kill Ultra. He obviously has an axe to grind rightly or wrongly but he did offer to share his ” point” with ” selected bloggers” if PL gave it the thanks for your letter chat.
He has obviously picked a road to go down so as another poster put it what will be will be.
He is wound up and certainly seems to have a few others going.
For avoidance of doubt, as some recent posts of mine will support, I have total empathy with the Requisitioners!!
HH
—————–
LMCBHOY . Many thanks for your well-measured words. Kindness can go a long way. Hail Hail
———
STAIRHEEDRAMMY on 17TH NOVEMBER 2016 5:46 PM
As another poster suggested earlier there is something that just doesn’t feel right about Kill Ultra’s posts. He may be a tim with good intentions, or an L5 plant, or something in between. What does seem predictable though is his re-emergence every time something important is happening with RES 12
==
The last time the Res 12 topic was raised was when someone was threatened. I think it might have been Auldheid. I hadn’t posted for months. Anyway, I was falsely accused as being the instigator and at least a dozen posts joined in a feeding frenzy before I replied.
The last time I posted, I think about two weeks ago, was to make an observation on the CelticPark/Parkhead name debate. I was given short shrift, dismissed as a troll and gave up.
==
WINNING CAPTAINS on 17TH NOVEMBER 2016 5:31 PM
It was you who led the pitchfork and torches mob on the Res 12 occasion I have referred to above.
Your latest offering has the most ludicrous suggestion of all. “Post them on here as BRTH requested at lunchtime. BRtH will answer each point and we will all be free to make our own minds up.”
You want the media to have a field day, or what? Talk about washing our dirty linen in public.
Btw the letter I’ve sent to PL has no reference to conspiracy or collusion, or Resolution 12.
Good night all.
Tony
HT has provided, a few times, information on this, the process and I believe Celtic produced an article on the website. It has been known for a few weeks this was coming up to be voted on at AGM. The only part that is vague is the independant supporter bit. Which I’m confident will and can be ironed out although I have my reservation that it can be representative of the greater support. But it is a good starting position to build on.
MWD
Rumour we are wearing the pink strip tomorrow…
FairhillBhoy
Welcome ! Enjoy Vegas mhate , have a beer in Nine Fine Irishmen at New York New York hotel ! HH !
MWD
As I said it’s early doors yet, I’ll let it run its course before I come to a conclusion, no disrespect to HT or any others involve.
Tony
Fair enough.
MWD
Wrd of today. …..is Theosophical
FTSFA
H.H.
Lions n barbs included …..
FTSFA
H.H.
Right movie time.
HH
Lurking Huns GIRFUYs.
Has anyone published a Dummies Guide to Res 12?
Asking for myself.
I have followed it loosely. But life is a busy bar steward this last year or four for me.
Correct me if I’m wrong: SFA protected, misled, orchestrated and lied for oldco.
I never would have believed it. It all seemed so fair when I was a lad…… ahem
Am I missing anything?
Winning a captains, a small correction if I may, and a brief planarian of what I know.
I now PapaJohn, have done for years.
He and PapaJoe55 are not the same person.
You got the namecheck wrong in your post earlier, no biggie, just wanted to clear that up.
PapaJoe55, came on to defend Kill Ultra, when several were convinced he was a troll, myself included. This influenced me to doubt him when he said he was a Tim.
PapaJoe and I had a fairly long discussion, for which I was roundly criticised, no big deal, I can stand my ground and neither of us were abusive.
I arranged to meet PapaJoe55 at Celtic Park for a game, and we did.
We even knew a couple of people in common.
We had a fine afternoon and I gained another friend through CQN.
I believe PapaJoe55 is a stand up Tim. He vouched for Kill Ultra.
He stated he knows him, and believes he is both a Tim and a decent individual.
I have never met Kill Ultra and do not vouch for him in any way, I can’t I don’t know him.
Even if he is not a troll, which I initially thought, he is trying to do damage to Res.12.
For that I do not trust his intentions.
More power to the elbows of the requisitioners.
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/a-tale-of-two-agms-in-one-city/
So what’s the feeling on stadium naming rights?
And I’ll add this link since the poppy was a let down this year.
MWD
MWD – I’d go for The Royal British Legion Perpetual Poppy Stadium if we had to sell the naming rights.
Having read said article by Phil I think it’s not going to prove one of his better predictions. If anyone in the UAE is interested in Celtic it’s more to do with global exposure than sympathy for Palestine. Support for their Arab brothers and sisters has not been at the fore of Arabic royal families passions.
And I’m not convinced the human rights records of some oil rich Arabian royal families fits with the values of the Celtic family.
I have to say, I think it’d be hilarious if the holier than thou lefties of the Green Brigade were directly responsible for encouraging millions of pounds of investment from a medievalist, absolutist, theocratic, monarchy.
It would just sum up the craziness of the world these days…
Kill Ultra, the rest of my comment was just as relevant. Your contribution at this time seems unhelpful and pointless unless you are trying to derail the res 12 boys. Why not take up the torch yourself if you don’t think they are trying hard enough?
<St Mary's Race Night – Tomorrow Night
Still got 3 jockeys left – £10 wins £50.
If you don’t want to gamble you can sponsor a Race for £25.
Contact me on vfr@girfuy.co.uk
KTF
My friends in Celtic,
By nature I do not like secrecy. It reminds me of , err secret societies. And brown brogues.
Let’s get everything out on the public domain. Everything .
We, as in the Celtic support have done no wrong, indeed we have been wronged.
Boys / Ghirls. I admire the perseverance of the Res 12 four. But the simple sad fact that everyone skips around , is that, this has a time limit.
The time limit being that many Celtic supporters have passed away, or will not be around to hear that the cheating has been acknowledged and addressed.
Time is of the essence.
Hail, Hail.
WINNING CAPTAINS on 17TH NOVEMBER 2016 5:31 PM
About 6 or 8 weeks ago I told Kill Ultra I was willing to meet up with him to try and see if there was a way forward that would help confirm or alleviate his concerns; that offer is still open.
I don’t personally know or have never knowingly met anyone involved in tech process so apart from wanting to see justice down, I have no skin in the game.
Kill Ultra is also welcome to conduct this by e-mail to my secure business address as well if he would rather.
That offer is open as well.
I am also willing to share my mobile details as well so that if preferred we could do it by voice or video call.
If any of that helps, I’m more than willing to do so.
KTF
Doc little misunderstanding all sorted, no longer mention three score an ten, hit the dizzy heights of 70yrs on Sunday 6th,don’t tell oanybudy, still wurken an hive the physique of ah 80yr auld,same weight as when 18, ten stane seven fighten weight Ha,Ha. Hope all is well with you an yours.
Awerabest PJ
I noticed Lawwell was in a Dubai last week. Some of the folks in the UAE are very smart people when it comes to investment. Interesting stuff.
The Emirates is across the road…..could see a few guests for the Barca game…