It will surprise no one that Uefa have charged our football club with “the displaying of an offensive banner and setting off of fireworks [sic]by fans”, this action was as inevitable as the dawn. At least some of our number believes setting off flares in a football stadium is a reasonable action and that provoking European football’s governing body is a smart thing to do.
In terms of protest, “**** Uefa” is not quite up there with Martin Luther’s Thesis or what we’ve witnessed in the Arab world this year. It’s simple rebellious behaviour, which some of us are compelled by in our teens and a few take a long time to shake off.
Forget calls to self-police, I’ve never seen it work with a football support. Ever. If you think you are going to convince anyone the folly of profane banners, flares or even IRA chanting at a football game, save your breath. Those who are up for the protest (whatever the subject is) are more likely to find your call for restraint as complicity.
This series of protest and consequence will run for years, will split the support and damage Celtic. Neither the club nor the support has the leadership to do anything about it. Copy and paste the thoughts you write on the subject, you can use them again without having to retype.
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Paul67 – You seem to be quite depressed by these off-field events.
Here’s a picture of a kitten frolicking in a sunny meadow:
http://www.webdesign.org/img_articles/7072/Kitten.jpg (thumbsup)
“Can I refer you to Plato’s Analogy of the Cave?”
That’s the big guy from Popeye, right?
Arthur –
I’m strugglin to find NAFOS a partner
FTM
Willie Collum will referee the December 28 clash between Celtic and Rangers.
Collum has only ever handled one previous derby clash when he gave Rangers a penalty last October despite having his back to play when Kirk Broadfoot fell theatrically in the penalty box.
The 31-year-old has refereed three Celtic matches already this season and has taken charge of two Rangers games.
During the October 29 Aberdeen v Rangers match he issued a straight red card to Dons striker Rory Fallon which was downgraded to a yellow after an appeal from Aberdeen.
Collum’s appointment brings to an end Craig Thomson’s monopoly on the fixture after refereeing three consecutive derby matches. Calum Murray will be Colum’s fourth official with Graham Chambers and Gordon Drummond as assistants.
Saturday’s Celtic v Kilmarnock match will be refereed by George Salmond with Stevie McLean taking charge of the St Mirren v Rangers clash.
On January 2 Iain Brines will referee the Dunfermline v Celtic match with Euan ‘spot-kick’ Norris in charge of the Rangers v Motherwell match.
I’ll give you 1 clue but there’s more…
Rangers fans overheard on a train last year saying this wee clown lennon is going to F*** scottish football right up and they were talking about Neil questioning the honest mistakes.
This was mentioned on an article on 1 of the celtic websitesthey overheard this convo.
hen1rik says:
19 December, 2011 at 12:27
Celtic_First says:
19 December, 2011 at 11:30
‘There is a reason for the Scottish coterie at Nyon, aided and abetted by allies back home, to have launched a ‘Get Celtic’ campaign at this particular juncture in the history of Scottish football. I just can’t put my finger on what it might be’
Perhaps we should blame Neil Lennon?
If he’d kept his mouth shut about the referees there wouldn’t have been a ‘strike’ and we wouldn’t have alienated UEFA.
I remember posting on here at the time that I’d been speaking to former Celtic player, from Jock Stein’s era, who is still in the game, who had no doubt about the bias but said that taking on the refs was foolish and we’d never beat them. I’m beginning to think he was right.
To put this i context:
I do not agree with the singing or chanting of the letters I.R.A at football matches
I think flares are stupid (although I have worn them) at football matches.
HOWEVER
I think the article displays a mentality which has been slowly encouraged and nurtured in society since the 1980’s and possibly before.
The attitude MOST people have is one where there is no point in going against the grain because it will lead to defeat, humiliation, unemployment – whatever.
Those with their hands on the levers of power in business, government, football – wherever – no longer have to confront ‘protest’ in the western world. They tolerate a certain amount of it but have learned that it is much easier to ‘head it off at the pass’ – and the best tactic they have found for this is to make sure that people feel powerless to do anything about anything.
Sure they’ll throw you the odd bone – get a petition of 100,000 signatures and we’ll debate it in parliament (we won’t do anything with it if it might upset the status quo but hey, that’s democracy in action)
And the power of the press in this is all important. The New Media is suppposed to be challenging it, but it seems many of the ‘New Journo’s’ are similarly brainwashed and unable to think outside of the box.
Yes we need to be clever, yes we need to remove some of the causes of controversy – but we also have to draw a line, not just as Celtic supporters but as human beings with an interest in the world around us –
And we still await answers: What songs are ‘illicit’? Which are ‘illegal’? Which are ‘Offensive’? Who has decided on this? How and when did they decide on this? Who did they consult before deciding?
And: ‘Since when did the world of football get upset about the use of the ‘F’ word on a relatively small banner?
The bottom line is that Celtic supporters seem to get bad press for any type of ‘protest’ or raising of the voice.
How long before the ‘honest mistakes’ which are rearing their ugly head again get people shouting ‘F the SFA’? And if we do do we get in to trouble for that as well?
Those of us who take ‘many more years’ to grow out of protest and dissent generally do so because we see flaws in the way the world works and want to do something about it, not just at the fitba but everywhere. Thanks to those who give up their rebelliousness as soon as they buy a car or get a girlfriend have cost the rest of us in ways that are unimaginable. Anyone who was involved in trying to get people out on strike in order to stop a government dipping in to their wallet will know all about the mindset I am talking about – defeatism. ‘It’s not going to change anything’! Well, there are plenty of people who are glad today of those who went before knowing people could change things if they refused to accept the way things are.
But those people appear to be few and far between these days. The ‘I’m alright Jack, throw a few quid to charity to salve my conscience’ Brigade really have lost sight of what ‘community’ means.
So, yes, stop singing rebel songs, don’t use flares. But FFS, there is something wrong in the world when a football club can get in trouble over a bad word on a small banner.
The whole thing is leaving a bad taste. The sooner we beat rangers and they go in to administration the better, at least we’ll get a few weeks of the same hymn sheet being sung from. Except Hymns might offend some people and UEFA could ban us……….
I despair, I really do.
The great only appear great becuase we are on our knees, Let us Rise. No, haud oan, nae point rising, let’s just sit down and say nothing in case the great smack us again, don’t say or do anything to upset them and they might throw us a sweety.
Better to live on your feet than die on your knees – naw, I’ll pit up wie the pain in ma knees, they might give s a cushioned seat some day…… speak nice to them.
Have a pleasant day. And remember – Conform or Die.
WILLIE GOLLUM?????????????
What’s the difference ? they are all the bliddy same.
.
Imagine they Tried to Ban Flares in the Olde Jungle or on the Celtic End @ Hampden in the 70’s.. Jings they would Need to Ban/Fine 50K of Us..
I was Trendy Tho.. I wore Oxford Bags (Half bottle o Buckie in Each Pocket)..Met Sheena Easton Efter the Gemme..
Summa
To clarify, we are being charged because the flare was thrown on to the track side. If it had just been waved about no action would be taken on that one.
Which leaves the banner and that would have been another ‘Technicality’ as our Chairman likes to put it…
HH
tomtheleedstim says:
19 December, 2011 at 12:30
Funnily enough I was watching Wallace and Grommit the other day and Grommit was reading The Republic by Pluto.
Talk of life bans for young lads being stupid is nonsense and disproportionate, it doesnt half suit the rest of the country for us to be fighting among ourselves for another week.
The focus of our ire this week should be those who made the decision to appoint Collum as ref. Dallas in the directors box with Judas, these people have no shame, or no intention of hiding their pathetic attempts to cling onto power.
Time for a huddle
Gollum is to ref the big game next week.
Can we appeal this???
They really are playing their best card.
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo says:
19 December, 2011 at 12:29
I have just been reading your last 2 posts and you speak sense m8.
Pretty upset to the charge confirmation this morning.
Still think the reaction to the banner and flares (flares weren’t even cool in the 70’s!) have been a bit OTT. Was it all wrong, yes, were they the actions of a stupid couple of individuals, yes, should we be punished and tarnished for it? I think not. Uefa have been kind in the past but i’ve seen Nazi salutes to go unpunished by that same body.
That said, we have enough enemies through no fault of our own but for the colour of our beliefs so am gutted that we brought this on ourselves.
“it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks”
HH all.
Collum :- Herod
(maist ay)Us :- The Innocents
ernie lynch, I hear from an excellent source that Celtic will vote against allowing a Newco FC straight into the SPL.
Greenjedi, erm, no.
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP, aye.
bournesouprecipe, agree. There will not be another flare incident soon, probably not another banner incident soon either, but really, did we need to self-police on flares or Uefa banners until last week? Next topic will be on something else. Probably political changing, again.
BlantyreKev, aye, the bottle thrown near the Rapid player. What happened in the next European game? Bottle thrown – hit the referee on the foot. Lessons are not learned easily.
WG, let’s hope.
ASonOfDan, I’ll have nothing to say on Willie Collum until after the game. Aye, there has been no political chanting for a couple of weeks, but protest has manifest in other ways. It’s not stopped.
Fassreifen, I hope you are right but I’m not so sure. Attention seldom encourages restraint. ToddlerTrainingCSC.
philvisreturns @ 12:30
Worked for me! Nice one.
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo says:
19 December, 2011 at 12:29
The money will have come from the sale of the tickets. They won’t be dipping in to a reserve fund to pay it.
Though they might have wanted to keep the money for other purposes.
ASonOfDan says:
19 December, 2011 at 12:28
Ridiculous idea. Reintroducing standing areas could lead to communal singing, discussion, friends having free time to talk to each other and hatch devious and cunning left wing plots to overthrow the government.
It may also lead to lateral movement.
Stop it now I say.
as P67 said a while back, get the gers recorded this time, the late kick off will see them polluted by the time of the kick off and they won’t be able to contain their vileness, get them on tape for all to see, I’m not one for paranoia and the politics is beyond me sometimes but I’ll be very interested to see how the polis manage the game, how will they be able to hide what one of scotland’s great institutions is really like
easywhenyou’renotgoingtobeatthegamecsc
ernie lynch: 19 December, 2011 at 12:34
“Perhaps we should blame Neil Lennon?
“If he’d kept his mouth shut about the referees there wouldn’t have been a ‘strike’ and we wouldn’t have alienated UEFA.”
If Celtic had ‘alienated UEFA’ we would not have been reinstated in the Europa League. Do you think our manager is to blame for the situation we are in with UEFA?
Remember those people you knew at school – the ones with the big mouths, always picking fights, contrary to the point of irrationality, unable to exert a muppet filter on every idiotic thought that flashed across their pea-brains, desperate, needy, attention-whores?
Remember those effin’ idiots?
Just becasue they grew into adulthood doesn’t mean they’re not still effin’ idiots.
Ernie
are you aware of Rangers having sold any tickets for the OF match to huns ?
If so how are they doing it.
Voucher at the turnstile in exchange for the ticket or have Celtic actually given them the tickets already and the Record story was just PLC news management ?
HAil HAil
Another clue…
Think of the embarrassment towards the establishment in this country with having to bring in foregin referees.
I’m sure this was the 1st ever.
ToddlerTraining?
sad.
Can I ask will it still be OK to boo our own players if they play badly? Is this form of Protest against individuals OK?
I suspect Georgios has been hurt more than Michel Platini by the protests of some Celtic supporters over the last few years.
Just a thought.
I’ve never seen the Celtic Support so united ‘inside Celtic Park’ in years, especially the very last home game.
What people perceive from, or even write on the internet doesn’t amount to division.
Keep the head down, tug the forelock and off I go……
CELTIC have demanded Rangers pay for tickets up front before allowing the Ibrox club’s fans into Parkhead for the crunch Christmas derby.
Record Sport can reveal the Parkhead outfit have broken with long-standing tradition by refusing to allow their bitter rivals to sell tickets to their own support on a sale or return basis for the top-of-the-table showdown on December 28.
The move comes amid growing speculation about the state of the Ibrox club’s financial health and because Celtic feared they might end up being left out of pocket for anything up to £350,000.
But despite a string of ongoing problems behind the scenes Rangers’ new owner Craig Whyte has rustled up the cash to avoid having an 8000-strong travelling support locked out of the biggest fixture of the festive season.
Neither club wanted to comment on the development last night but Record Sport also now understands Rangers will make a similar demand for cash up front before Celtic visit Ibrox for the second time this season on March 24 next year.
So I am behind with the news ….. the huns have already paid Celtic plc for the tickets.
Awe Naw
Excellent questions. But it’s like the questions still hanging over the appeal Whyte is said to have lodged at the last minute over the frozen assets for the wee tax bill. D Day for that was December 9. Did he appeal? Was the appeal successful? Did the money move into HMRC’s account?
This is where having the mainstream media eating Winalot out of your hand (Copyright, Speirs, G.) comes in, well, handy. It’s not as if RTC can phone the Brox, ask for the press office and say: “Hello, it’s RTC here. Can you confirm or deny that that couple of million is now off the table should the MBB pull the plug today?” Only the mainstream media could get that information and they don’t seem to have the time to get into it, what with bad bhoys writing bad words on bits of bedsheet and all.
It’s the same with the tickets for the 28th.
However, imagine you were given the task of getting Celtic’s side of this story across in the impartial sports media with which Scotland is blessed. I think, quite quickly, you would decide it was best to say nothing. And would you look at English media? The Torygraph would put Roddy F on the story, the Guardian Ewan Murray. It will be a bigger story if we all turn up or switch on on the night and see a big empty space with uncharacteristically complete seating. That will have a far bigger effect. And if it comes out that the MBB actually charged his supporters and took their money, but failed to hand it over to Celtic in time to release the tickets …?
What larks.
Paul67 says:
19 December, 2011 at 12:39
‘ernie lynch, I hear from an excellent source that Celtic will vote against allowing a Newco FC straight into the SPL.’
How many clubs have to vote against to stop the move?
I think the articles say 90% of those eligible to vote, but I’m not sure if the huns would be regarded as eligible to vote.
90% of 12 = 10.8, presumably that’s rounded up to 11.
90% of 11 = 9.9, presumably that’s rounded up to 10.
So is it one or two clubs have to vote against?
Wullie (eyes in the back o his heid) Gollum. Courtesy of Bawsman.
Owes Celtic a decent game, we have had nothing from this Religous Education teacher, he is soo afraid of being biased in our direction he heads of in the direction of RatnersFC.
Even Bobby Tait of notorious Masonic Fame admits that Celtic never lost a game that he officiated.
Poorest article I have ever seen on here.
Celtic fans have self-policed for years.
They did so without the prompting of the board when “casuals” appeared on the scene.
They also heeded the call from Fergus in the main.
The Green Brigade have acted with nous in the latest episode.
You should expand on your statement Paul. The Celtic fans in my opinion–though not perfect to a man–are, by and large, a decent lot who self-police with fairness in and out of the stadium.
I do agree with your comments re banner bluntness. It would have been better to use more polite language and indeed direct it towards those who had caused the problem. The Police and those within our board who cooperate with the policing in our stadium and would have us all wear “See You Jimmy” wigs/hats (In green of course to celebrate our heritage), and singing “Macnamara’s Band” or other twee Irish numbers.
I posted on here last week that UEFA have already handed out fines to teams for ‘Illicit’ banners and chants so we are hardly unique on this score.
It was brought to the attention of the delegate, he reported we were fined. It is how UEFA works.
Talk UEFA are out to get us because of last year is hystercial p1sh!
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo says:
19 December, 2011 at 12:43
‘Ernie
are you aware of Rangers having sold any tickets for the OF match to huns ?’
I assume they’ll take money from people’s bank accounts before the tickets are sent out.
Paul67 says:
19 December, 2011 at 12:39
ernie lynch, I hear from an excellent source that Celtic will vote against allowing a Newco FC straight into the SPL.
That’s the most important piece I’ve read on here for a while. It’s important to me anyway.
Ernie, Nick Park is a genius himself.
……Celtic would keep schtum about it. ?
HAil Hail