It will surprise no one that Uefa have charged our football club with “the displaying of an offensive banner and setting off of fireworks [sic]by fans”, this action was as inevitable as the dawn. At least some of our number believes setting off flares in a football stadium is a reasonable action and that provoking European football’s governing body is a smart thing to do.
In terms of protest, “**** Uefa” is not quite up there with Martin Luther’s Thesis or what we’ve witnessed in the Arab world this year. It’s simple rebellious behaviour, which some of us are compelled by in our teens and a few take a long time to shake off.
Forget calls to self-police, I’ve never seen it work with a football support. Ever. If you think you are going to convince anyone the folly of profane banners, flares or even IRA chanting at a football game, save your breath. Those who are up for the protest (whatever the subject is) are more likely to find your call for restraint as complicity.
This series of protest and consequence will run for years, will split the support and damage Celtic. Neither the club nor the support has the leadership to do anything about it. Copy and paste the thoughts you write on the subject, you can use them again without having to retype.
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Hail Hail
Mort
podium?
Celtic_First says:
19 December, 2011 at 11:30
Good post.
And I am really looking forward to seeing how the hun protection racket can get them off the hook legally here in the UK. Especially bearing in mind the UEFA CFC and the ECA´s admission to adherence to good governance. That former RFC Chairman John Mc Lelland still sits on the ECA board is an interesting angle. I cannot see them having enough power to dismantle all that has been proposed and set up previously just to save the hun. In fact the argument just to save the Scottish game I feel is not a strong enough argument. If they do manage however to wriggle free from their present situation then Celtic fans should spend their monies on their families or following a more respectful and honest pursuit if our custodians do not try and at least publicise it. If they sweep it under the carpet in the hope of maintaining their plc rather than the spirit and modus operandi of our club then the club as we know it will die also.
Everything else …. Songs, sweary words, poppies, identites, Neil Lennons judgement, The SFA , League competitions, Cup competitions, A possible treble for Neil Lennon …. James Forrest been sold to SPurs for 25million quid IS ALL A COMPLETE AND TOTAL IRRELEVANCE in teh grand scheme of things.
We should relax be acutely aware of what is happening around us and why. BE INTIMATELY AWARE AT HOW POOR OUR CUSTODIANS HAVE BEEN IN THE FACE OF THIS PROVOCATION ….support the players and Neil Lennon and support the club until D Day.
When is D day ?
at the very very very latest … this time next year.
Hail Hail
The football is the most important thing. Support the team that is put on the park. Anything else is just not worth the hassle.
Mort
Thank goodness I’m already lyin’ doon!
Willie Collum
Unconscious Incompetence
The individual does not understand or know how to do something and does not necessarily recognize the deficit. They may deny the usefulness of the skill. The individual must recognise their own incompetence, and the value of the new skill, before moving on to the next stage. The length of time an individual spends in this stage depends on the strength of the stimulus to learn.
Conscious Incompetence
Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, he or she does recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit. The making of mistakes can be integral to the learning process at this stage.
Totally agree on Club leadership – or lack thereof.
I heard Bankier speak for first time on Thursday and truly cringed. If he is our leader God help us but the equally worrying thing is who selected him to be our Chairman?
To me this guy has as much a clue about Celtic and what it means to most of us as the man on the moon!
Forget calls to self-police, I’ve never seen it work with a football support. Ever. If you think you are going to convince anyone the folly of profane banners, flares or even IRA chanting at a football game, save your breath. Those who are up for the protest (whatever the subject is) are more likely to find your call for restraint as complicity.
Paul, where you thinking of Ernie when you wrote that?
:-)
Awe Naw
I posted a response at the tail end of the last thread.
Paul67
Must admit,I liked your last line.
Totally true,the fan’s opinions on this are unlikely to change.
They are entrenched. There are no grey areas to which we can resort as a compromise.
The only certainty is that we will agree to disagree,even though I keep telling you all I’m right.
And my sister will tell you I’m wrong…..
Paul 67
Any word on what the Celtic board will do when the newco huns apply to be allowed straight into the SPL?
Have they considered the matter?
Have they decided on a course of action?
Inevitable that UEFA would charge Celtic, like night follows day.
Congratulations to the morons that unfurled the banner, whatever you objectives were they have surely been met. Celtic’s name and reputation in the gutter. UEFA will follow our every move from now on.
I hope you all get life bans from Celtic park.
RobinBhoy
ernie lynch at 12:15
Will what they do have any effect on your support for the football team?
Mort
Wullie (eyes in the back o his heid) Gollum.
Hand picked for the joab required.
‘Forget calls to self-police, I’ve never seen it work with a football support.’
Is that a criticism of Mr Bankier?
Are we allowed to criticise members of the board?
Celtic_First,
I hope you dont mind me reposting.
Paul67 will also be happy as he has pointed out in his lead article here IT IS JUST A MINOR DISTRACTION to the real issues
Celtic_First says:
19 December, 2011 at 12:09
Awe Naw
When is D Day? I am asked this with increasing frequency in our CSC, usually articulated as: “I thought you said the huns were going to be bust by now …”, as if it was my fault they’re not, as if I was single-handedly keeping them going.
Anyway, you say by this time next year at the latest. I honestly do not think there is any chance they will last that long.
The MBB could pull the plug any day. Absolutely any day. Including today. The Abbot of Clonmacnois has mentioned to me a couple of times an aspect that doesn’t even get much of an airing on RTC. Can you imagine the discussions between the MBB and his fellow conspirators, Andrew Ellis and whoever? Dear God. I bet UEFA wouldn’t fancy that kind of language on a banner. Whoever it is who is coming up with the money or coming up with the emergency cash-raising wheezes must be getting very, very fed up.
The MBB has two choices: pull the plug and take the flak OR wait for the FTT and for Murray to get the flak, but keep putting his hand in his pocket until the FTT concludes. I bet he’s changed his mind and changed it back dozens of times. A real dilemma.
Either way, if the FTT fails to finish when it re-re-convenes in mid-January, it is just possible they could make it to the end of this season, if the MBB keeps coughing up and if he manages to sell some of his best players in the window. But these are all pretty big ‘ifs’. Plus, the call from HMRC, whispering in his shell-like “No more Mr Nice Guy”, would likely be precipitated by any further delay.
The delaying tactics have come from Murray’s QC. Murray’s preferred outcome would surely be for the MBB to cop all the flak. He may even be hoping that the FTT doesn’t get to make a final call on the EBT scandal, or at least on the part of it that pertains to Rangers. Respected opinion is that HMRC will press for the legal ruling in any event, pour encourager les autres.
We live in amazing times.
More and more slightly disturbing comments appearing in the media that somehow the h8ns are gonna escape the full punishment for there innocent tax irregularities.
The establishment old boy masonic mafia pulling out the stops with the backing of the most powerful (politicians??) ……….
I hope Thomas Cook are giving us a good deal on the Euro rate.
The decision to appoint Willie Collum as the ref on December 28th is an absolute disgrace, though not entirely surprising, our discipline will have to be spot on as Collum will be itching to book or send off one of our players.
We can’t afford to fall into the trap which the huns will undoubtedly set, by diving and vicious tackling, by confrontations with the likes of lafferty and McCulloch, we really need to be on the ball in this one and i hope Neil drills this into the players before the game.
Any chance of Ledley, Matthews, McCourt, Commons, Stokes, Izzy etc….being back any time soon?
Hail hail !!
HGB
ernie lynch says:
19 December, 2011 at 12:17
‘Forget calls to self-police, I’ve never seen it work with a football support.’
Is that a criticism of Mr Bankier?
Are we allowed to criticise members of the board?
……………………
The Fifth Columnist strikes back
There are none so blind as those who will not see!
Paul67
‘Neither the club nor the support has the leadership to do anything about it’
Somewhat harsh on the support Paul, and don’t we have Ian Bankier who says ‘he’s going to weed them out.’
The ‘Ooh Ahh’ Protest which led to the original fine has already been dropped, and I don’t think we’ll see another
Banner or any flares, for the foreseeable future either IMHO.
Are you expecting trouble?
Mort (Kano 1000) says:
19 December, 2011 at 12:17
‘ernie lynch at 12:15
Will what they do have any effect on your support for the football team?’
Yes.
Can I refer you to Plato’s Analogy of the Cave?
The bit where the captives realise that what they though were actual figures were only shadows, that what they though was real was in fact illusory.
It won’t be a case of ‘there’s no such thing as the old firm’. It will be more ‘there is no Celtic, there is only one half of the old firm’.
It suits the board to have the support divided and faction riven as the day approaches.
Willie Collum ?
Hope you all had a nice Christmas
WG
ernie
By rights ,in a just and honest world the new huns should go down down down to the lowest league and start again from the very bottom.
If they are allowed to stay in the SPL the minimum punishment must be having 25 points off for at least 3 seasons .
Does that sound fair??
A large ring was formed in the jungle around the thrower of the bottle versus Rapid, and in later years for other offences. It’s not an instant phenomenon but we learn as we go. The underlying fact is that the main thing for the supporters across the entire spectrum of views on history, context and songs is that the team do well, anything that hinders that will be quashed by the majority. Protest is fine, we’ve been doing it in song for long enough over many an issue, but those who ultimately hinder the team’s progress with actionable illegal protest of whatever type will not be tolerated by the majority. It will take a little time but it will be resounding. I honestly believe that.
Paul67 –
your words read depressed. This too will pass
WG
Peter Lawwell’s dream
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX69s2E8OOs
Here’s what you could have won…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUliw5qHilg
WG
Have you got the table plan finished yet?
ernie lynch says:
19 December, 2011 at 12:23
It suits the board to have the support divided and faction riven as the day approaches.
………………
It also supports Rangers and the SFA, so good job there ernie
Paul67
I don’t know were you are coming from on this article?
Self Policing? The add-on for Celtic Symphony has already been dropped in response to what has happened. I would say that shows a degree of self-policing.
There was a flare at Portsmouth/Southampton game and are seen all over Europe on a weekly basis therefore our support are hardly unique in letting the odd one off at an away ground.
Collum in charge of rangers game. I expect you could write several pages about that appointment… HH
ernie lynch: 19 December, 2011 at 12:17
“Are we allowed to criticise members of the board?”
Aye. Why don’t you do a banner?
bamboo says:
19 December, 2011 at 12:24
It sounds expedient.
Unprincipled, devoid of integrity and unsporting. But expedient.
Celtic_First says:
19 December, 2011 at 11:30
There is a reason for the Scottish coterie at Nyon, aided and abetted by allies back home, to have launched a ‘Get Celtic’ campaign at this particular juncture in the history of Scottish football. I just can’t put my finger on what it might be.
Think about it.
Paul67, I’m more positive, think the self-publicising minority will soon realise they don’t have the interests of Celtic at heart. I think they are slowly coming to realise the majority have reason on their side. And with a bit of good faith (i.e. belief and encouragement that things can be changed) then they will change.
Can I apply just now to change my season ticket to this section?
Safe standing sections could be introduced in the Scottish Premier League, following the approval of a plan to allow top flight clubs to pilot the idea.
Following a meeting of the 12 member clubs on Monday, a vote was passed to amend current rules stating all SPL grounds must be all-seater.
The SPL board will now have the ability to approve any request made by a club to pilot a standing area, subject to further approval from the police and local authorities.
Neil Doncaster, chief executive of the SPL, said: “Since I joined the SPL in 2009, there has been widespread support amongst fans to re-introduce safe standing areas.
“I am delighted that we have been able to respond positively to supporters’ views on improving the match day experience.
There is no jurisdiction under Scots law preventing standing areas returning, with only an amendment to the SPL’s rules required.
Top flight grounds in Scotland have been all-seater since 1994 and current regulations stipulate the need for all clubs to have a minimum capacity of 6,000 all-seated
Afternoon bhoys, sun is out, hun free as ever.
No going to get worked up about a poxy banner, it’s not as if it’s anything new, ill advised at worst, but as it’s the club who suffers it pees me off a bit.
There is a concerted campaign against the club, and it seems to be getting worse, coincidence that things have escalated since the good Dr has left, I don’t know.
The cheating at the hundome on sat was there for all to see, the cheating at Perth yesterday was there for all to see, the appointment of Collum, hunbelievable.
Aye the answer is scoring more than them to take the cheats out of the equation, WHY should that be the case ?
Why should we have to be better ?
If we don’t win the derby game due to cheating, you will not hear from me again, I will give up on scottish football forever.
The ball is in Celtic’s court, and they are not willing to do anything about the corruption within scottish football, why should I and you pay into this corruption, when we ALL know that we are the best team in the land and yet the cheats prevail.
Scunnered to the point of taking up knitting.
Celtic_first
initially I am VERY interested in hearing about the money for the hun tickets at Celtic Park ?
Has the MBB came up with that money yet ?
If they have found the money then yet again it does chip away at their very limited cash flow.
Imagine an Old Firm game at Celtic Park where there are no huns ?
Will huns be allowed to pay at the turnstile ?
When you consider that there are 5 working days left between now and the next OF pantomime that does not leave much time to transfer 350,000 pounds
It would be in Celtic´s interest to broker a deal now or are the club going to give away 8000 tickets to tim pensioners …. yeah that was a joke of course :-))
Why are we not publicising ourselves this story ?
Have I missed something and the hun has already paid ?
Have I missed something and Celtic have already relented but failed to manage the news on this issue ? if that is the case we may be getting a taste of what´s about to come.
Hail HAil
On refereeing standards and referees in general here is a related story based on what happenned to Steven Craven that has a message for referees and the SFA.
.“The quality of mercy is not strain’d,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.”
(Merchant of Venice and the Pound of Flesh)
I was surprised to hear that the Glasgow Referees Association had actually barred Steven Craven from refereeing in the first place although not so surprised that the automatons at the SFA upheld the GRA’s decision.
In my younger days in the mid to late seventies, I found myself in the position of the guy who appointed match referees in what was first the Civil Service Saturday morning league, that became in 1974 The Civil Service League Strathclyde
http://www.sportfocus.com/webpro/ssmfl/dyncat.cfm?catid=29937.
The job was to make sure every game had a referee and the referee knew where the game was. Friday was a hassle with call offs, venues changing etc but the league had been fortunate enough to have had a Grade One Referee called Tommy Marshall in their corner and he persuaded other referees from the higher grades to take part. The full names escape me now, Allan, Old Charlie, Peter, wee Hugh (NOT Dallas), Roger, their surnames hover on the edge of memory, all apart from Jimmy Callaghan who was lost to the top level by a decision not to order off John “Yogi” Hughes in a Rangers game. Jimmy like old Charlie was maybe not in full flush of youth but they all refereed with a smile on their face and a passion for the game. I recall getting the bus down from Castlemilk to Glasgow Green one snowy morning, knowing the games would be off, but checking things out in any case, and there were the referees turning up when there was obviously no need to, having a laugh and exchanging banter.
In one incident a NSB team (they had about 6 or more teams) turned up at Huntershill for a game only to discover their manager had picked up the family laundry bag instead of the football kit bag. He came from a LARGE family and there was underwear and knickers and bras but no kit. It was the talk of the referee steamie the next Friday when I phoned to allocate referees to games, the story getting more embellished with each telling.
The point I’m trying to make here is that those guys officiated at that lower level for the love and fun of the game. They could be numpties on occasions during 90 minutes but before and after the game they were great approachable human beings, comfortable with their flaws. So where has that attitude gone in the GRA? Has the attitude to Steven Craven come from the bottom up or down from the top? And that takes me to the SFA and our top grade referees.
The impression I have gained since the Referee’s Strike last year is that because referees are in charge of a game for 90 minutes, they act and are organised as if they are the game rather than the servants of it. They provide a service to football at all levels and at the very top level room needs to be created for the users of the service, the clubs and the paying support, to have some say in the level of service provided. Football pays too good sums of money to Grade One referees for the level and quality of service provided to be assessed and marked by those providing it. This happens in no other service industry in commercial life, but somehow Scottish Football thinks there is no alternative to the current process in spite of it not turning out enough referees who are of the required standard.
This all goes back to attitude and that hardening of attitude can be seen in the decision not to allow Steven Craven to officiate at amateur football games in Glasgow. Jimmy, Alan, Hugh, Charlie, Roger and co will be shaking their heads in disbelief. We are not talking about the professional game here, we are talking about a game that is played for the love of it, and certainly in the days of my referee appointing experience, was refereed for the love of it.
Where is the love of football reflected in the Steven Craven case, where was the mercy in that decision?
For the guys at the GRA who made the first decision to bar Steven Craven – have a look at the nature of the game that you are involved in. To stop someone giving of his higher level experience smacks of a vindictiveness that I never witnessed in the 70s. If any club has a problem with Mr Craven officiating, offer his services to a club that does not, I am sure that many will be happy to have him officiate.
Remember it is a game.
For the SFA top grade referees too, remember it is a game played at different levels and it is not your game, it is the people’s game. You offer a service to supporters, who are your ultimate customers, and are demanding a high price for that service, so do not be surprised if the supporters in turn demand higher levels of service and clearer monitoring and marking systems to replace the current ones that are clearly not churning out sufficient referees of the required standard and attitude.