There is a degree of relief (in some quarters) mixed with surprise that Hearts creditors have agreed to a CVA, allowing the club to exit administration. Although administration seems to be a natural state for many in Scottish football, remarkably few have subsequently gone to the wall in the last 100 years.
Third Lanark perished in 1967, an exception during many decades of solvent behaviour. Airdrieoneans (not to be confused with the current club by that name, which is the renamed and relocated Clydebank FC) were liquidated in 2002, with the chastising words of creditor Sir David Murray ringing in their ears. Oh how well irony played its hand.
Murray’s own club, Rangers (not to be confused with the current club by that name), were next to be liquidation after creditor, HMRC, stuck by their published rules and rejected a proposed CVA.
Apart from this, a remarkable series of campaigns, such as ‘Well worth saving’ and ‘Save the Jags’ has seen supporters step forward and find the money to save their club from that ominous fate.
There appears to couple of rules if you want to escape liquidation. Try to ensure 75% of your creditor value is owed to shareholder-creditors or the bank. Many clubs survive on directors’ loan accounts, which are ultimately forgiven in administration. Banks too have been reluctant to kill the local totem, with good commercial reason.
The major thing to avoid appears to be breaking tax law. HMRC are prevented by its own terms of business from forgiving tax debt which has been run up through illegal tax evasion. This was the case at (original) Rangers, who conceded some of their tax dealings were not legal during 2012’s Lower Tier Tribunal. The balance of cases are disputed and currently subject to an Upper Tier Tribunal.
Hearts success makes for an interesting SPFL Championship race this season. With three games to go Dundee hold a two point advantage over Hamilton. The winner will go up, second place will face a play-off, but neither club will fancy fighting Hearts for promotion next season. I can imagine the despair elsewhere to the news that Hearts will be a Championship club next season. Poor Ally will need to get his game together.
Remember, John Hughes will be on CQN tomorrow morning. Tune in with your questions for him.
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Paul,
“Banks too have been reluctant to kill the local totem, with good commercial reason.”
Maybe now. Not in 1994 it seems.
Would we, for God’s sake, let these ‘people’ call themselves whatever they please ?
Why are we so concerned about something which simply makes NO difference.
Calling themselves Rangers, or THE Rangers,…or The Famous Glasgow Rangers is not going to make the slightest difference to the pitiful situation they are in. It is not going to change the fact that they are in Queer Street & that there is NOTHING that anybody can do that is going to change the situation.
Newco ? Sevco ? Deidco ? … Who cares ?
Celtic are right to call them by whatever name they choose to call themselves in the upcoming, meaningless Glasgow Cup.
We are long past the stage where we need to score points over our doomed neighbours.
Really not buying all this original old rangers new Rangers nonsense.
Paul your comparison between Sevco and Ardrie United now Aurdrieonians as of 2013 is very misleading.
The two dead/liquidated clubs stories are completed different and not comparitable. It is very disappointing to see this being used as a stick to prod at those of us who consider Rangers and Sevco to be 2 seperate clubs and not the same club. To have the club company myth perpetuated on CQN is frankly just below this site and the intelligence of most who read it.
Here is the Airdrie / Airdrieonians story
http://m.stv.tv/news/west-central/227892-fan-reaction-to-airdrie-united-changing-name-to-airdrieonians-news/
NO COMPARISON.
But season books must be sold!
MWD
steinreignedsupreme
13:11 on 16 April, 2014
Ok so what happens if at some point in the future this new club win the Scottish Cup and everyone, including historians, proclaim it not as their first win but their 34th?
Comparable. I hate iBones.
MWD YES
If the Huns are still in operation next season, imagine the unbridled joy, and laughs, when they get relagated right back down to the 2nd Division …
Tbb 1308
“It’ll be written up when they’ve figured it out.”
or perhaps based on their previous decision and that of LNS
“It’ll be written up when they’ve made it up…”
So just to confirm for those who are not getting this.
Airdrie United were only allowed to use their old name and badge because SFA/SFL bent over backwards to accommodate SEVCO 5088.
Simples. But get that’s fine. Perpetuate the Airdrieonians myth as if it’s been that way since 2001/2002.
MWD YES
Kilbowie Kelt
Completely agree. Why anyone would refuse to renew their Celtic season ticket because of issues surrounding a financial basket case third tier team is beyond me.
We all know they are a new club. We laughed heartily at the time and still do on a regular basis at the 2012 liquidation. Never in my wildest dreams as a child growning up in the David Murray “fivers and tenners” could I ever have imagined the amount of gloating we’ve been able to enjoy in the last 2 years. There is still plenty more to come. Enjoy it.
I presume these same people won’t want a Champions League ticket if we draw Real Madrid in the group stages.
If people choose not to renew for financial/family/work reason fair enough. But otherwise they should get off their high horses and support the club.
Hail Hail!
BOGNORBHOY
Best order in situ,a lot of podium hunters oooop North and the fancy dress shops may be sold out.
Personally,I’m going along as a drunken sot. It won’t fool anyone,but at least I’ll look the part.
NegAnon2
12:15 on
16 April, 2014
That the crisis engulfing the Hun was always a risk to celtic is accepted by all I think.
But that celtic are playing their hand so poorly here is astonishing.
I do not accept the guff that the celtic statement is something they had to put out. It’s just guff and a crap excuse and an insult to our intelligence.
This isn’t semantics and it does matter. This is corruption, cheating and mass indoctrination and our own club are visiting it upon us.
We are divided due to the embracing of that corruption.
========================
If I may
“We are divided due to the perception of the embracing of that corruption”
Perceptions are based on what we see and if you read BRTH’s post on the sheer incompetence and unprofessionalism of the SFA, which like BRTH I have seen first hand, you would perhaps be a bit less critical of Celtic and a lot more understanding of just how difficult it is to operate a professionally and ethically run club in an environment where such qualities are eschewed by what were our greatest rivals and their supporters throughout the fabric of Scottish society.
Whilst you might want Celtic to be more vocal and visible in their distancing from what we are not, I take some solace in the phrase “Hell mend them” because that is where our departed rivals are now and there they shall stay until they mend.
With regard to tackling the SFA. Perceptions will radically change in the next 6 months.
Bawsman.
At least one of your reasons for not renewing (SFA) will be gone by then.
Good luck to Hearts (never thought I’d say that), I just hope they can hold onto their players.
I’ve a suggestion: lend Tony Stokes out to Hearts for a season. It will strengthen them and give Tony the opposition he craves.
Dundee United football legend Frank Kopel dies aged 65
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-27049347
I’m sure many others will remember him as a big part of the successful United sides. RIP.
Hamiltontim is praying for Oscar
We point out that it’s not. In the same way we have to point out that Farry was sacked for gross misconduct, that the season in 2008 WAS extended and every other Sevconian/SFA lie they try so desperately to convince themselves.
And we do it with a big smile while supporting our club.
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS ………Praying for our WEE HERO!
The myth is being perpetuated in the media because of demographics. Sales in print are falling through the floor, and people can switch off radio and television in an instant. Commercial stations especially, require an audience and print journalists are trying to survive redundancy as long as possible. It is down to survival.
People who cover Scottish football are desperate for a certain fixture to take place. That was one of the pluses of Celtic getting knocked out of the Scottish Cup by Aberdeen, no match with Sevco for another year.
In terms of Celtic making any statement – I honestly don’t understand why some of our fans require reassurance on the matter. Plus, it has nothing to do with Celtic. We are playing Champions League football every season. Sevco just reached and lost their first Ramsdens Cup final. That is reality and so too is the indisputable fact that Rangers remain in liquidation.
The Scottish football authorities have avoided the issue. Some people are clearly frustrated by that, and I totally understand that position. But sticking to the hard facts avoids any stress. It is a matter of public record what happened to Rangers, it only becomes a problem if you fall into the trap of thinking it is about opinion.
If someone suggested that the Second World War started because Poland invaded Germany they would be entitled to that opinion. No one in their right mind would agree with that though, and more to the point they would be unlikely to get angry about it. Yet when it comes to Sevco and the farcical claims of their gullible supporters people get so animated. It is bonkers.
I’m off to cut the grass.
Ps in a couple of weeks time will the new grass that’s grown in it’s place have the right to claim to be the old grass as it grew in the same place?! :-)
Josh McEachran
21 years old, centre mid, graduate of Chelsea’s youth academy.
Has made 11 appearances for Chelsea since turning 16.
Made 4 appearances on loan for Swansea and then 38 for Middlesbrough in the Championship during 2012/13.
Spent the first half of this season on loan at Watford where he played 7 times. Switched loan to Wigan where he’s played a further 7 games.
That’s 56 appearances career to date, and just 14 this season.
He is paid £38,000 per week, by Chelsea (mostly). That’s £2M per year. At 21. And he’s not yet good enough to play for the club.
Absurd.
The Honest Cover-up
13:43 on 16 April, 2014
‘We all know they are a new club.’
#####
Apparently not.
#####
“Rangers are a fantastic club with a great history. They will, in not too long a time, be back in the SPL. I have no doubt about that.
“And they’re needed for Scottish football because of their following, the size of the club and especially their history. We certainly would like to contest with them every week. We believe we have a better team and management structure.
“For us, it’s disappointing that they are not there but that’s decisions by the various clubs and leagues and we accept those.
“Rangers are one of the great clubs in Britain and we have to acknowledge that.
“They are a motivation for us to go along and beat them in every Old Firm match, so we miss that opportunity.”
TOM MOLACH
Aye-on the training pitch!
I am thoroughly enjoying the demise, rebirth, demise, rebirth, etc. of all things down Govan way.
Talk to a sevconian about his current club and there’s a sheepish acceptance that they haven’t a clue what’s going on or where they’re heading.
Folks, sit back and enjoy the ride, why blacken our clubs name by dragging them into the cesspit that is all thing Ibrokes, let them be swallowed up in their own mire and be sucked under due to their own stupidity.
Personally I would never use what happens there as a reason to stop supporting my club. To do otherwise gives the perception that your hatred from all thing in Govan is greater than your love of all things Celtic. ( IMO )
.
Moonbeams..Will Scotland be the Same Scotland if We get the Yes Vote or a Different Scotland..?
..;-)
Hope Yir Guid..
Summa of ScotlandTheGraveCSC
tom molach
13:47 on 16 April, 2014
Good luck to Hearts (never thought I’d say that), I just hope they can hold onto their players.
I’ve a suggestion: lend Tony Stokes out to Hearts for a season. It will strengthen them and give Tony the opposition he craves.
Tom!
Naughty & hilarious in equal measure!
Want to add Griffiths too ‘cos that’s just not mentol enough’ already?!!?
;-)
HH jamesgang
tom molach
13:47 on 16 April, 2014
Very good.
Emotions were understandably running high on here yesterday. To-day we have a wider range of comment. Someone suggested that we should wait for the result of the Upper Tier Tribunal before making judgements about our club’s position. I would also like to have some information about the ‘SECRET 5-WAY AGREEMENT’. The only statement I have heard about this came from none other than Charles Green, when he boasted about having won agreement for the retention of his club’s history and their titles. Here are some questions which arise from this –
– Is this true?
– Did Reagan and Lancaster agree to this?
– Did they have the authority from the clubs ,their employers, to agree to this?
– If not, why were they not sacked?
– What else did they agree to?
– Why is all of this still SECRET?
As super-Ally once said – ‘we are entitled to know all this’.
New word. To add to sowhattery…..
Remise. A state of perpetual demise, reflux and recycling purporting to be a football business model.
HH jamesgang
Tom
I love that…made me laugh out….Stokes has always had a highly inflated opinion of himself as a footballer…..talks about a tribute club and banjos a tribute act….
Kikinthenakas
STEINREIGNEDSUPREME
I know,mate.
What is annoying people on here is the perception that they are getting away with it.
And,frankly,so far they are.
They’ve kept the titles,the ground,the five stars,the same numnut fans,the same fawning media.
They’ve even kept the name,the colours,the bloody history according to the authorities!
That is why so many on here and elsewhere are agitated,frustrated,annoyed and bloody raging.
The cover-up that put them in their ascendancy is still in place with the same goal.
Fair enough,it sure didnae work the first time-apart from humiliating us regularly-and you know what?
Our silence from our own ascendancy humiliates us still further.
I know you don’t like it anymore than I do,bud. But that silence is being construed by many as acquiescence.
And that will ultimately harm us greatly if it continues.
To nydonnelly67……… Your the man. Hail hail to every word you said.
Hamiltontim is praying for Oscar 13:33 on 16 April, 2014
“Ok so what happens if at some point in the future this new club win the Scottish Cup and everyone, including historians, proclaim it not as their first win but their 34th?”
Some people will try and claim that. If the SFA try and claim it then it should be challenged. It is more likely they will avoid the issue.
If Sevco try and claim it, it will join the long list of farcical claims, like Manchester United wanting them in the English Premiership, 500m fans, Barcelona and Real Madrid wanting them in La Liga, tie ups with the Dallas Cowboys, record-breaking kit deals with Adidas, ect, ect, ect…
They are a complete farce. People have to wake up to this.
The media will print and say what they want. If Celtic fans don’t, watch or buy, they will soon disappear.
ACGR
I totally respect you and have enjoyed your company. Please reconsider your decision to not renew your ST.
I realise that you may want to spend more time indulging your infatuation with a certain mature Tory MSP, and that the fare on offer at CP can be quite dull by comparison but come on, mate, KTF.
CQN needs a drammin ACGR.
Kilbowie Kelt will vote YES
13:31 on
16 April, 2014
In the late hours I suggested a new phrase for CQNers to combat “Whataboutery ” and it is ” Sowhatery”
Thus when someone says whatabout Celtic advertising a game v Rangers as a game v Rangers? the answer is so what?
If that elicits a response, the answer is “so what”.
If you peel away all the layers of the what about onion with the so what knife you eventually arrive at the real cause of the ire and it may turn out not be rational and based on something totally different.
In the grand scheme of things what difference does it make what they call themselves, I might as well get mad if one of my kids decided to call their kid Zaphod Beeblebrox.
I think there is an irrational bit of thinking going on with regard to Celtic and their powers to make life better. I expressed it before as a Communication Serenity Prayer.
The tricky bit is knowing the difference.
A Guide to Serene Communication (based on The Serenity Prayer)
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and the wisdom to know the difference.
Let us distinguish between the things that are in Celtic’s sole power to fix
From
Those that require co-operation with others outside the Celtic family to fix.
Let us distinguish between what cannot be fixed because of non cooperation by those outside the Celtic family
From
What requires campaigning to fix.
Let us distinguish between what Celtic are able to campaign about
From
What they are unwilling or unable to get involved in
And
Engage in dialogue on as to why
And either
Agree to disagree
Or
Reach agreement on who should be party to
And
Who should take the lead in any campaign for change.
AND
Give us the wisdom and understanding to know the difference.
Can someone point me to the time ( roughly ) of ACGR’s flouncing post please.
Ta in advance.
PC67
A Hearts supporting wag in my office has expressed his relief that his team will indeed be able to take on the zombies in El Brassico next season
Kilbowie Kelt will vote YES
13:31 on 16 April, 2014
Would we, for God’s sake, let these ‘people’ call themselves whatever they please ?
I agree but feel that as a club we should be highlighting they are a newco not for the SFA or any bun in Govan but for ME A LIFELONG CELTIC FAN.
For some reason it is very important to me.
PEDROCARAVANACHIO67
0007 and a few after that,mate.
Get on the blower and ask him if you can have his season tickets.
For Coia’s …..
‘If Celtic fans don’t tune-in, watch or buy’
Bmcuwp
Cheers
jackie mac
12:46 on 16 April, 2014
BDO means ‘Been Doing Zero’