There is a degree of relief (in some quarters) mixed with surprise that Hearts creditors have agreed to a CVA, allowing the club to exit administration. Although administration seems to be a natural state for many in Scottish football, remarkably few have subsequently gone to the wall in the last 100 years.
Third Lanark perished in 1967, an exception during many decades of solvent behaviour. Airdrieoneans (not to be confused with the current club by that name, which is the renamed and relocated Clydebank FC) were liquidated in 2002, with the chastising words of creditor Sir David Murray ringing in their ears. Oh how well irony played its hand.
Murray’s own club, Rangers (not to be confused with the current club by that name), were next to be liquidation after creditor, HMRC, stuck by their published rules and rejected a proposed CVA.
Apart from this, a remarkable series of campaigns, such as ‘Well worth saving’ and ‘Save the Jags’ has seen supporters step forward and find the money to save their club from that ominous fate.
There appears to couple of rules if you want to escape liquidation. Try to ensure 75% of your creditor value is owed to shareholder-creditors or the bank. Many clubs survive on directors’ loan accounts, which are ultimately forgiven in administration. Banks too have been reluctant to kill the local totem, with good commercial reason.
The major thing to avoid appears to be breaking tax law. HMRC are prevented by its own terms of business from forgiving tax debt which has been run up through illegal tax evasion. This was the case at (original) Rangers, who conceded some of their tax dealings were not legal during 2012’s Lower Tier Tribunal. The balance of cases are disputed and currently subject to an Upper Tier Tribunal.
Hearts success makes for an interesting SPFL Championship race this season. With three games to go Dundee hold a two point advantage over Hamilton. The winner will go up, second place will face a play-off, but neither club will fancy fighting Hearts for promotion next season. I can imagine the despair elsewhere to the news that Hearts will be a Championship club next season. Poor Ally will need to get his game together.
Remember, John Hughes will be on CQN tomorrow morning. Tune in with your questions for him.
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SFTB
Possibly DD and Stokesy didn’t say what you’ve suggested because that’s not really what they believe?
SFTB
There is no tactic or spin being applied by Celtic ,political correctness ,interrupting your enemy whilst they make a mistake,it’s all shite.
Celtic want a Rangers in the SPFL.
They want the Old Firm rivalry to be once more.
It is better for the cash register,it’s as simple as that.
Anyone thinking otherwise is deluding themselves.
Celtic should be taking them to task on this inheriting their history crap.
The fact that they are not tells us all that we need to know.
If they are fecked anyway ,then what is the harm?
Rarely have I been so angered by some of the utter shit we are fed.
TT
tinytim
17:24 on 16 April, 2014
Yup
Ok offsky
SelfindulgentareusCSC
TinyTim
17:24 on 16 April, 2014
I agree that the Board want the hun pound.
That however needn’t stop them making it clear that so far as Celtic are concerned Sevco are a new club and have no right to succeed to the old club’s history.
@AgentScotland: Kris Boyd has agreed in principal to join The Rangers, 2 year deal on £7k p/w which would double if club is promoted to the SPFL Premiership.
NB “in principal”
Having gone through any number of “good Rangers men” in the past to induce ST sales they announce this “in principal” as the ST renewals are due.
Hmm… as the saying goes.
Can anyone direct me to the ACGR post where he said, apparently, he would not be renewing?
Thanks.
JJ
Auldheid
“On the same club debate no amount amount of sane reasoning will impact on the insane and the sane do not need it.”
I have no interest in addressing the insane. My pitch is to Stuart Regan & Neil Doncaster, and their refusal to set the record straight or to administer in full public scrutiny. Unless you feel they are insane.
HT & Tiny Tim
Which is why I do not buy the line that they are only joking. I am not that angry with Antony Stokes as I can fully understand the competitive player’s desire to test himself in meaningful games. Stokes is only guilty of the delusion that New Rangers will provide that, as they did before.
I understand, not at all, why Dermot Desmond would miss them. Unless he believes the Hugh Keevins/ KevJungle line that we will attract less than 20k crowds as we progress beyond 3iar up to 10iar and that there is no prospect of a new league to compete with, his comments make no sense from a financial perspective.
We will not replace the guaranteed money we make from 6 CL Group matches with 4 Derby games which may, eventually impact on our ability to obtain those 6 CL (or more) games.
The only way Dermot Desmond’s words make sense to me is in regarding us as mug punters who will turn up no matter what shit is thrown at us to swallow. A strange way to conduct business. A Ratner approach.
http://worldsoccertalk.com/podcasts/2014/listen-to-an-interview-with-hillsborough-documentary-director-daniel-gordon-audio-99041/
A radio interview with Daniel Gordon who directed the ESPN two hour documentary called Hillsborough.
Saw it last night on ESPN in the USA when it premiered. It is excellent and I cannot recommend it enough if you get the chance to see it.
YNWA
Jungle Jim, ACGR’s post was at around midnight last night, page 11 of the last thread.
67Heaven, Moonhowler!!!!!! Moi! Never, just on holiday, so not needing to get to bed early.
It was a good discussion, and something that may be useful in keeping emerging Scottish talent in Scotland.
Tiny Tim
I very doubt it’s better for the cash register.
For the forseeable we are nigh on guaranteed 15-20 min a season from CL money.
If we had thems back, the honest mistakes would take away a fair % of that income straight away, and strengthen them at the same time all the while we get weaker.
It makes no business or financial sense whatsoever to have them back, no matter what BQ said.
HH
…………………..
HT
I admire big time what the bhoys done re res 12, but sadly I agree with you.
HH
Doc
17:49 on
16 April, 2014
It was a good discussion, and something that may be useful in keeping emerging Scottish talent in Scotland.
How did that work ? wasn’t fully explained as far as i read, certainly nothing proposed financially to stop Scottish talent heading south including Celtics
Doc.
Thanks,
Cheerio,
JJ
LionRoars67, it wouldn’t stop talent leaving, but it may encourage talent to hang around for a bit longer.
JJ, I hope ACGR reconsiders.
I’ll be in Aberdeen next week and will try to catch him for fish and chips.
We will always be reminded of oldco, why because they are allowed to play with the same colours, same badge, five stars and that year on the back of their necks. Not forgetting they still play in the same Stadium. For these reasons, the MSM, SPFL and the hordes that follow follow them, they will always be perceived as being the same Club. As they would say rangers till we die.
I have asked from the day the liquidation process began why they would be allowed to play in the same strip and use the same badge, there is also the five stars and that year. I have never got an answer from anybody including from P67. Perhaps we will get an answer when they are formally liquidated.
For the time being no Celtic Employee and no Celtic Supporter should give them any recognition as being their former self.
We needed gone like Third Lanark, perhaps there lies in the clue why they have not gone the same way. We’re Third Lanark the establishment Club, did they have the same inbred Supporters as the Club that has been masquerading as a Team that the liquidation process began on in July 2012?
As long as the establishment, MSM and the majority and it is the majority of bigoted followers they will always be rangers, make no mistake about this. No Law including the Insolvency Act will prevent them from being so called.
I am unsure of the detail but believe it can be found in the Social Security Administration Act but Creditors can pursue a new entity for debts of an old one if there are sufficient similarities between them; this I suggest would be the way to go for HMRC if the UTT goes in their favour. Just maybe then we might not see a Team playing in the same strip at the same Stadium, we might just see ASDA move from their current site in Govan to a new bigger location. Then they will be dead, gone like Third Lanark.
I can but dream I suppose…for the time being I as a Celtic Supporter will not recognise them as being the same Club. I implore every Celtic Employee and Supporter to do likewise.
At the same time I would also implore each and every one of you that can afford and physically go along to buy your Season Ticket for next Season and until the day you die.
Never ever forget, no matter who tells you, they are dead, gone, put into administration and will be liquidated.
Thanks for reading my rant, hope it made sense.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
For USA CQNers and tech savvy others
New Hillsborough documentary being repeated on ESPN2 at 10.00pm Sunday April 20.
2 hours of un-missable stuff.
YNWA
Some passionate posts today on the naming rights of Sevco and
the consequences, for Celtic.
It does worry other Celtic fans when Joe Sixpack or whomever maintains their undying love for Celtic has died, and will not be renewed.by way of another season ticket because Celtic didn’t do x y or z. in the ‘wake’ of the Rangers travesty.
Personally, I believe that there is a significant group that have already made that same decision last year, and some the year before that. You can understand Celtic fans frustration and feeling of futility, if you need a mibbery snapshot for example watch the Sevco slow motion replays where they ‘competed’ in the Scottish Cup and where a stomach turning sequence of ‘decisions’ go there way, unnoticed by MSM. Michael Stewart’s account of the DU game is the closest you’ll see to criticism, of mibbery without labelling it as such.
More worrying is the Celtic fan that just doesn’t renew, and doesn’t announce it to the world on a Blog, Celtic fans waiting on official comment on the Sevco fiasco, or questioning the wording on a Celtic advertisements for forthcoming Sevco matches, should know better by now, that Sevco or even The Rangers are just dirty words especially from a Celtic mouth.
Sevco talk is rebranded as just Celtic banter, and offensive. Some significant CQN contributors posted that the entire deception was completed on the day they were granted a licence minutes after Charles Green snapped it very happily out of the hands of the SFA.
You pays your money you take your choice. CSC
the long wait is over
17:29 on 16 April, 2014
“in principal” and not “in principle”?
At least he’s thinking about the money.
Auldheid,
In my eyes you are the very soul & voice of this great site & respect your opinion.
I witnessed the Celtic Trust presentation of the Living Wage proposal.
I saw absolutely NOTHING confrontational in Jeanette Findlay’s presentation.
Doc
18:00 on
16 April, 2014
Celtic giving up millions from C/L will not stop any emerging talent leaving Scotland, not for an extra 5 mins, see TBB’s post ref Chelsea youngster astonishing paycheck, Islam Feruz! the EPL is the richest league in the world, the Championship 5th richest league in the world thats over 40 clubs who can blow us away in terms of money, all in my insane opinion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbeb6qB6KPo
The ESPN documentary by Daniel Gordon on the 1988 Seoul Olympic 100 meters final.
Carl Lewis, Ben Johnson, Linford Christie, et al.
Fabulous stuff but 80 minutes long.
Riskorrie,
I am in beautiful Birmingham Alabama, teaching and still thinking I can play
My son Gavin’s submission to 3towns internet newspaper
Let’s choose to become an Independent Scotland- the perspective of a 17 year old
I write my views as a 17 year old boy who doesn’t wish to live under a false democracy. I don’t wish to live in a country where children are going cold or hungry. I don’t wish to take part in a politics where brutal austerity is the only economic option. I don’t wish to take part in a politics where social policy lacks vital imagination. It is clear that an independent Scotland will do things very differently. I am part of the first voting generation that will live with the decision that is made in the referendum and I wish to put forward something which must be understood as an extremely simple argument: The people of Scotland should make the decisions for Scotland.
There is no better way to deliver and maintain Social Justice for the people who wish it than allowing them to receive the governments that will deliver it. And no matter what way you look at it, Scotland always votes for parties which place Social Justice at the top of their priorities. I respect the right for people to choose their own government, I respect that the party that received the most votes in the rest of the UK was a party that Scottish people deplore. The Tories in Westminster will never place Social Justice in Scotland at the top of their concerns. My respect for democracy leads me to the conclusion that Scotland needs to be an independent country, so that we will get the governments we vote for. Every time.
Daring new political movements like the Radical Independence Campaign and The Common Weal propose economic policy that is viable, fair and just. This new Scottish politics has accents of the Scandinavian model, but more importantly it has fresh thinking from the people of Scotland. This new Scottish politics is an exciting reason why I will be voting Yes in September.
In a matter of years after the 18th of September, Scotland will find itself in a position that most other nations would envy. We will have a modern parliament that will operate in positive politics, as opposed to the bitter attitudes that exist in Westminster. We won’t have another Poll tax or Bedroom Tax. Trident will be on its way out and we will have transformational Childcare. We will have a written constitution that will outline the needs and rights of the Scottish people. Independence gives us all the powers needed to fix our economy in way that benefits everyone in Scotland. We will be a strong nation that will do the best it can for its people, while also being a positive member of the nations of the world.
That is an adjective Better Together use to describe the UK- strong. We have been told endlessly of this ‘strength’ that the UK is providing, however this really does depend on how you define the word. The 4th most unequal country in the developed world, blighted with child poverty and all other contradictions of a Socially Just society is not something that anyone should consider ‘strong’. Who do you think is in the strongest position to look after the average Ayrshire community? The Scottish people or an out of touch political class in Westminster?
It is self-evident that the Scottish people can and will do better at running Scotland than Westminster. Nothing is more certain that defining our own future. Nothing is stronger than a constitution which outlines the right and needs of the Scottish people. An independent Scotland would have a government with all the economic levers needed to deliver a Socially Just society, in a strong, modern democracy. I do wish to live in a country where, education is a constitutional right, I do want to live in a country where the most vulnerable are cared for, I do wish to live in a country that is free from nuclear weapons. Let’s take this opportunity to deliver a future with certainty, a future with real Social Justice, a future where we can be certain we will get governments we vote for every time. Let’s choose to become an independent Scotland.
HT
Sorry our posts crossed.
I know dozens of supporters that are as indigninant as you about the Celtic v Rangers Under 18’s game for example,and how it’s advertised.
Season ticket payments in the main are by direct debit, the same as my council tax, and as you know unless you do something the money disappears and reappears at Celtic PLC.
I think it dawned on me some time ago, it’ll be business as usual as the almost inevitable draws closer, I’m even more convinced. The thirst even for non re newers of season tickets, to see Celtic will remain insatiable.
The season ticket base is already holed under the water line for a myriad of reasons but calling them ‘Rangers’ and restricting ourselves to selective parody (Peter), will be a significant factor in next years, further decline.
bournesouprecipe
18:05 on 16 April, 2014
Following on from your post. It is so so important that Season Ticket Holders do not continue to dwindle. They will be back if not next season they will. Why because they have continued to buy their Season Tickets in enough numbers to scrape by, which they have just about managed. Despite the continued in fighting they will limp along until they get back into the top league.
If we do not continue to give our financial support to CFC and see our revenue reduce it will impact on the type of Player we will sign. However, on the other hand the new entity will continue to limp along e.g. Boydechenko on circa £7k a week. They will not do much in Europe but will in Scotland but by their bullying on and off the pitch. Then of course at Football matches at least they will visibly be seen as the master race.
We should not let that happen, each and every Celtic Supporter that can afford and physically go along has it in their power to keep the new entity were they belong, in the footballing gutter.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
billy bhoy 05
18:17 on 16 April, 2014
My son Gavin’s submission to 3towns internet newspaper
Very good that. You must be a proud Dad.
indigninant? = indignant
JimDuffy
My candidate for manager of the year is Stuart McCall,
Another soup taker. Honestly, gimmi a feckin break.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/austinhunt/21-soccer-stadiums-you-should-watch-a-game-in-before-you-die
Year Opened: 1892
Capacity: 60,832
Tenants: Celtic F.C.
Why you should visit: It’s one of the oldest stadiums in the United Kingdom, and if you happen to catch a game in Celtic Park when the Rangers are in town…prepare to have your mind blown.
boondock saint. 18:14
A few years ago I was working in LA at a place near Mobile, called Theodore. It was during my stint there, I took the curtain call on a long and (significantly less) than distinguished amateur fitba career. Last team I turned out for was called “Dog River Reds” in the Mobile and District Welfare Leagues. I still miss it.
Good memories. Enjoy playing (or even thinking you can play) as long as you can.
Wilson on shortbread – “We’re all talking about how the Championship is going to be a great league next season”. Em, are we…..??????
I have heard many fans say they want Rangers back. These are the some of the people who feel that no longer need the safety of the season ticket to ensure entry to two games at CP against them.
Many in these days feel it is better to pick their games in the SPL. They buy tickets for games they want to go to.
It may be that the heyday of the SB is over.
Lennybhoy
Sorry cross posting again.
Not a single thing you say, could I disagree with.
We should teach our children why it’s not time to desert the battlefield even in a war we’re clearly winning by a distance, Celtic of the future needs others to pick up the baton even when only temporarily dropped, by others.
kilbowie kelt will vote yes
18:09 on 16 April, 2014
I was not present at the A.G.M. and I am not one for conspiracies but Jeanette is a smart person who stands up for what she and others like her believe in. She can put her point across well and forcibly. However, it would not surprise me if the fact that it was Jeanette was the Spokesperson that had something to do with it.
What I am clumsily trying to say is, reputations precede people.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
bournesouprecipe
18:33 on 16 April, 2014
As ever…
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
They’re all talking about the championship because thems are in it, and they are also in trouble, so any kind of news is better than the sheet that is going on over there, let them rot, let them scream and kick shout about how good a team they are when they loss 3-1 in a semi final.
@Yorkbhoy
Good point mate they cannae wait to ask THE loaded question.
H.H.
When he was alive and before he finally succumbed to Alzheimer’s which took him in 2004, my dad used to tell me tales of when he was asked by his friend Sean Fallon to keep an eye out for decent prospects for Celtic. I have no real idea if that was ever true or just a kindly exaggeration by a man who lived and breathed Celtic his whole life. I do know that Sean Fallon and my Dad were friends as I have many memories of meeting and chatting with him outside the south stand before many a game.
Anyway, in the telling of these tales, my dad always referred to one that got away. A young Falkirk lad named Frank Kopel. The way my dad told it, he mentioned this lad to Sean but the club where too slow to move and he went to Manchester United, finally finding his way to Dundee United where he had a great career.
So it is with a sense of poignancy I heard today of the passing of Frank Kopel again a victim of that terrible disease that also took my Dad way before his time was due.
Rest in peace Frank and thoughts and prayers are with his family.