I know what you were thinking; Zenden, like Ljungberg, but older. We need experience in the squad but with Commons, Ledley, Samaras and McCourt all able to stake a claim for the left midfield position this is the last place we need to bring in a 35-year-old. Best of luck to the player but I’m pleased he has left Glasgow.
Today’s Sun report that a senior policeman witnessed a crime being committed but instead of doing what he is paid to do, he reported the incident to Uefa. You have to wonder about the veracity of the crime. The officer will do well to explain his actions if they amount to anything more than a few lines in a newspaper.
We are all partisan in this city but Justice is blind to such emotions and taxpayers (that’s you and me) do not sponsor lazy gossips.
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goldstar10 says:
13 November, 2011 at 12:28
Cheers m8 but as i posted earlier this is the sad country we live in.
Mr Craven tells the truth and that arse Dallas is still in a job but i guarantee you won’t hear the biased media mention this..
All i ask for as a celtic fan in this country is to be treated fairly is that to much to ask..
Any 1 wanna bet that the 1st thing mentioned on clyde the morra either at 8:30 or on superscoreboard the morra night will be UEFA investigating celtic…
Hi
My brother has been invited to a legal converance on the new ‘Sectarian Bill’. Not really his area of expertise/interest so I’ve said I’ll point him to some articles/blogs summing up the opposition to it.
Any suggestions?
I’m going to have a look about, but any help appreciated.
Ernie
SNP did jump in feet first but maybe with good intentions . They just hadnt thought it through. I say again none of the other parties have shown any desire to tackle the sectarian parades which takeover high streets on saturdays right through the summer months.
BUT STILL WE WANT TO BASH THE BOARD when they are working in an unabashed campaign to SAVE THE RAAAANJURS!
Of course we do. I blame civilization.
HH
Patrick Collins (Mail Online):
Nobody seemed entirely sincere, everybody appeared to be playing a part; hastily affirming their unthinking nationalism, prancing to the tune of vulgar vigilantes, nervously parading their poppies, afraid of being exposed and reviled.
The act of remembrance was reduced to a demeaning show of competitive
patriotism.
Full Article
A worthwhile read on football hijacking a symbol of respect.
excellent article that link to the Independent; it is beyond a joke just how much the poppy has been reduced to a jigonistic fashion statement.
bamboo says:
13 November, 2011 at 12:40
Ernie
SNP did jump in feet first but maybe with good intentions . They just hadnt thought it through. I say again none of the other parties have shown any desire to tackle the sectarian parades which takeover high streets on saturdays right through the summer months.
The bottom line is this, they couldn’t get us so they create offensive bill plain and simple and to get us to.
You have to ask yourself why was this data destroyed well i’ll tell you why it’s because catholics are more likely to get attacked than protestants and Mr Salmond promised us he would let all know what the findings were when he got elected so in my eyes he has let us all down.
They asked for changes when we were pumping them off the park plain and simple..
Hi Partizan, how’s it going pal? Sorry didn’t have much time after the Aberdeen game.
Below’s a part of the transcript between Christine Grahame and Prof. Devine, where she admits to wanting to even up the score between Celtic and Rangers fans because the existing legislation only covers sectarian chanting!
Professor Devine: You have reported their analysis. My analysis is different. Mine is that moving the goalposts into political and ethnic provocation and so on moves us away from the case that is relatively easy to prove—because of statements made, messages sent and songs sung—which is religious hatred.
Christine Grahame: For clarification, regarding the analysis of the statistics that we have requested concerning the 2003 act, is it the case that Celtic fans sing songs that are pro-IRA, which could be deemed political, whereas Rangers fans sing songs that could be seen as sectarian? That might skew the statistics, in that it might make it difficult to prosecute Celtic supporters under the 2003 act because it deals with offences aggravated by religious prejudice.
Professor Devine: You are absolutely right. The act could not be used for that purpose—that is why the case was thrown out in Perth. The sheriff decided that the statements made were statements of political or racial loyalty.
Christine Grahame: Indeed. Therefore, statistics based on that act, which you say is sufficient—and that we therefore do not need the first part of the bill—along with other existing law, whether in statute or in common law, will not prove your point about sectarianism going both ways, because the act does not tackle sectarianism in terms of what Celtic fans are doing.
Professor Devine: No. It is relevant to the issue in terms of the single criterion of religious hatred.
To return to your statement about songs being sung by Rangers supporters, although the overwhelming majority of those songs are not relevant to the 2003 act, there are some that are. If you wish to see the list, I am sure that UEFA could provide it. Only a small minority would be capable of being arraigned before the 2003 act.
My concern is to try to deal with the problem that we have in Scotland, or at least to approach dealing with the problem, through this legal process. We all agree that it will take a large number of other influences to produce a result over time. My sense is that what is being proposed moves away from the key problem. That is only a point of view.
Christine Grahame: Yes, I know; I accept that.
Do you therefore accept my premise that prosecutions under the 2003 act will be more successful in relation to Rangers supporters singing—notwithstanding the point that the songs are not all sectarian—than Celtic supporters singing, behaving in a certain way or chanting, because that would not be deemed sectarian and would be more likely to be deemed political?
Professor Devine: I do not understand your point—
Christine Grahame: My point is that it is not even.
Professor Devine: It might not be even in terms of the proposed legislation, but it is even in terms of the 2003 act, which deals only with religious hatred. You cannot honestly consider the statistical evidence to be dealing with anything other than the processes of law involved in the interpretation of that act.
Christine Grahame: I am sorry—I am not explaining myself clearly. I want to forget all the other categories in the bill and go back to the 2003 act and its provisions related to offences aggravated by religious prejudice. I seek your views on the proposition that Rangers supporters might be more likely to be prosecuted because their behaviour, their singing and so on might be deemed sectarian while Celtic supporters’ singing and chanting about the IRA would be more likely to be deemed political and therefore would not fall within the ambit of section 74 of the 2003 act.
Basically Christine Grahame is saying that it is unfair that Celtic fans aren’t prosecuted for singing political songs while Rangers fans are prosecuted for signing sectarian song!
The really big question about all this is the deleted COPFS data. How can anyone bring in new legislation to deal with sectarianism when the effectiveness of the existing legislation cannot be examined?
Mystery surrounds Rangers trials for Indian duo as clubs reveal surprise at news
Nov 13 2011 By Gary Ralston
RANGERS’ move for Indian stars Sunil Chhetri and Jeje Lalpekhlua could be thwarted by their clubs’ transfer fee demands.
The two Asians will arrive in Glasgow this week for trials with the Ibrox side.
But both of the players’ clubs were puzzled that the trial was allowed.
And both will demand a transfer fee, which could jeopardise any move given Rangers’ dire financial situation.
Lalpekhlua is a doubt with his manager at Pune FC, Derrick Pereira saying: “This is news to me as I haven’t been told anything.
“If it is true, it has come at an inopportune moment as the I-League season is in full flow and we will find it hard to release Jeje without a fee.
“He is a vital player for us and if he leaves now it won’t be helpful.”
And Subrata Bhattacharya, the technical director of Chhetri’s club – Mohun Bagan FC – said: “I am not aware of this development.”
Even Chhetri’s own father expressed doubts the deal would go ahead.
KB Chhetri said: “In his earlier contracts, he always had a paragraph saying the clubs would release him if overseas clubs were interested.
“But with Mohun Bagan FC, there is no such clause.”
However, both players say they are desperate to go to Glasgow and earn the chance to win a contract, with Lalpekhlua even insisting his club are in favour of the deal – despite his manager’s claims.
Lalpekhlua said: “The club is supportive, I’m sure if I get a chance to play for Rangers, Pune will let me go.
“It is a great honour to get this chance. I think the good start to my international career helped attractinterest from Rangers.”
And Chhetri said: “This is an excellent opportunity for us.”
The really big question about all this is the deleted COPFS data. How can anyone bring in new legislation to deal with sectarianism when the effectiveness of the existing legislation cannot be examined?
Correct but why bring a new legislation out if they didn’t try and give the original 1 a proper go or should i say why didn’t the cowards give the orignal 1 a go is it maybe cos they’re beloved huns would be guilty as charged.
Sorry m8 i agree with your post time for golf my heads bursting lol see ya after lads..
Barrach, thanks mate.
I’m looking over earlier posts now to see if any have the sort of info I’m looking for. I’ll definetely point my brother to the debate between Prof. Devine and Graham as you suggest.
We’ll definetely need to meet up in New Year, even though my sobriety will make it a quieter meeting than last time ;).
hen1rik because, as Christine Grahame admits, the existing legislation only tackles religious prejudices. All available COPFS data shows that the majority religious aggravated offences occur against Catholics, and more importantly, around Orange Walks and not football. Releasing the date from 2005-09 would only have confirmed this, begging the question, why introduce new legislation to tackle a problem that existing legislation covers (if applied properly)?
hen1rik
I sure that data will still exist somewhere and its obvious that they have decided that the only way they can bring the hun to order is to first give us a kicking.
Its amazing that this Christine Graham is anywhere near any bill as she appears to told anti-catholic views.
told=hold
Young Hoops beating Young Killie at Lennoxtown.
2-0 to the good Ghuys.
Well done so far Bhoys.
SwanseaBhoy
ranglers move for 2 Indian internationl strikers is at risk because – they may have to pay for them !!!????
Are they just part of a smokescreen as the club prepares for admin-liquidising.
Barrach
Where did you find the debate between Devine and Graham? Do you have a link I could copy?
Hail Hail.
Formula one whineing away in the background . What a waste on time and money. Switched it off -thats better.
Would someone please list the songs deemed offensive by PC McPlod during the recent Rennes game. I watched the game and can’t remember hearing anything that i would have deemed as being overly offensive to anyone. Are all song related to radical Irish nationalism now deemed offensive in Scotland? And just who are we supposed to have offended. Some clarity is required. PL mentioned songs relating to PIRA does this include singing about the men who died on hunger strike?
Have the police ever made reference to either UEFA or the SFA with regards to fans of other clubs singing ‘illegal’ songs during games? The whole rotten episode reeks of rank hypocrisy and bigoted views. “Scotland the best little country in the world” – me a**e.
Lamb for lunch – dare I make it succulent???
Why don’t we en masse apply to join the OO? If they refuse our suit, that’s sectarian and the whole lot will be locked up.
It was not my preference to have my mothers passing announced on CQN nevertheless I am sincerely grateful to all those who extended their condolences and to all those who took the time to catch up for a beer. I hope there comes a day that I can be of some help to each and every one of you because until then I am obliged.
A poem for Remembrance Day:
By Wilfred Owen 1918
Dulce Et Decorum Est
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of disappointed shells that dropped behind.
GAS! Gas! Quick, boys!– An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And floundering like a man in fire or lime.–
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,–
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
DULCE ET DECORUM EST – the first words of a Latin saying (taken from an ode by Horace). The words were widely understood and often quoted at the start of the First World War. They mean “It is sweet and right.” The full saying ends the poem: Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori – it is sweet and right to die for your country. In other words, it is a wonderful and great honour to fight and die for your country.
I know companies go in a lot these days for offshoring to India and it’s a good idea that TFOD are doing this to cut back on costs.
Owen was killed exactly one week before the armistice.
Perhaps the last lines of his poemn should be on the poppy
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
(The Old lie – It is sweet and fitting to die for one’s country.)
Kitalba
My condolences. It happened to me in 1991.
She will always be with you, trust me on that.
Partizan, ha! no probs pal.
It may be worth getting you’re brother to contact individual police stations and ask if they hold data on religious aggravated offences. I’m sure I saw somewhere that they might still hold this info. Worth asking them.
He should also contact the Crown Office and ask why was the COPFS data deleted when numerous requests were made to see it?
Also who deleted it and at who’s request? Did they not know this info had been requested for years? The argument that this is “data retention policy” is bs given this. Is it Crown Office policy to ignore repeated requests for information? If the Scottish Government promised to release this data, if re-elected, then it is inconceivable that this data was deleted by mistake.
I’d also get him to ask the Crown Office for a synopsis of the collected data on religious aggravated offences from 2005-09.
After the League Cup Final, someone posted comments by a ned on Follow Follow urging Rangers fans to “carry knives and stab anyone in green and white”. I contacted Strathclyde Police to complain that this was incitement to sectarian violence and wanted the appropriate action taken against the poster. This was about seven months ago, and six emails later, there has been no attempt to apprehend this guy for comments on a par with anything Stephen Birrell posted online. The point is, there is existing legislation in place, it’s just not being implemented properly.
Anyway better head out onto the croft.
Keep the faith and keep mindful of these holes in the sidewalk…
btw David Rovics has a new cd out.
On WW1
I recommend “Goodbye to all that” by Robert Graves. He is buried in Deia, Mallorca and many old soldiers made the long pilgramage to leave a little cross for their captain. Also, it’s a rattling good read!
3-0 to the Young Hoops v’s Young Kille at Lennoxtown.
SwanseaBhoy
pilgrimage, rather.
Partizan, you should find it here about two thirds down;
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/28862.aspx?r=6439&mode=html
kitalba
Please accept my sincere condolonces. I hope all those who loved your Mother and all those whom your Mother loved can find comfort from somewhere.
SwanseaBhoy
amadeus says:
13 November, 2011 at 13:34
You couldn’t possibly ever make it as succulent as the most succulent Lamb ever tasted that Jabba and his cohorts dined to in that famous michelhun star restaurant down Edmonstone Drive.
JD
Kitalba
Thoughts and prayers on your mother’s passing.
As for Owen’s poem– it has always been the beacon by which everyone should remember what the Poppy was really about at the start
Now this is a better take on what should be on the poppy appeal banners, basically forget the fighting lets get pissed!
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori, sed dulcius pro patria vivere, et dulcissimum pro patria bibere. Ergo, bibamus pro salute patriae”
“It is sweet and right to die for the homeland, but it is sweeter to live for the homeland, and the sweetest to drink for it. Therefore, let us drink to the health of the homeland
There are two factors at play in the motivation behind this new bill. The first is politicians’ desire to be seen to be doing something. Like Salmond’s pointless summit (about nothing), they like to be portrayed as taking action, having identified what they see as a problem.
The second factor is the evening up debate. Salmond and other SNP leaders have been criticised internally for being seen as too close to the Catholic Church – meetings with bishops, etc. They want to be seen as even handed and therefore have come up with this legislation that will hit one side harder than the other in the name of balance. Unfortunately for them Christine Grahame let the cat out of the bag to Prof Devine in the exchange previously quoted today.
If the government was truly interested in tackling sectarianism and “unacceptable behaviour” (whatever that might be) then this bill would be a general one and not restricted to football. Surely if a type of behaviour is thought to be unacceptable in one context, then it should also be equally unacceptable in others? A result of this bill could be that arrests are made for singing a certain song at a football match while it is perfectly legal to sing the same thing at a rugby match. How can that be fair or indeed good law?
The Sunday Mail exclusive on Stokes Mother. A week old. Saw that in one of the Tabs over here last Sunday. Didn’t think it worth commenting on.
If only the Sunday Mail could find a BIG story, something worthy of the front page. I don’t know, a major Scottish Institution’s ongoing tax case, looming administration……
If only there was a big story out there to fill the front pages.