I loved the Newco statement from yesterday evening, it betrayed the reality that they’ve lost their nerve in the face of panic among fans and a complete lack of knowledge of what to do about History overtaking them.
They cited that the SPFL had a conference call on the subject of the Court of Session Oldco EBT ruling, but quickly got onto the subject that “our Club’s (sic.) history, including its many successes, is beyond debate”.
Those of us who supported another team during the EBT decade know well that history is beyond debate. We paid money to see those competitions and there will be no denying what happened.
At a stroke Newco took a debate, which was hitherto the exclusive domain of fan comment and the occasional journalist repeating the words of well-paid Newco and Ladbrokes SPFL PR team, that there was “no appetite” for title stripping, and made it a subject football people could legitimately be drawn on. In short, they made Rangers historical successes THE debate.
I’ve spoken to Celtic on various potential public statement matters over the years. They don’t always get it right, but they know when to shut their mouth and win support for their objectives, at the cost of taking flak for not making grandstanding public comments.
Tommo Blog.
While many paid to inform us were repeating paid PR as news, Channel 4’s Alex Thomson had no qualms calling-out the cheats in his blog yesterday: Rangers cheated at football: the fraudulent silverware must go. And that was just the blog title.
Oh Mr Black! The Rangers v HMRC First Tier Tribunal was held in private, with witness names given anonymity in the written report. Mr Black, the name of a key figure at Rangers, who signed and sold up to 400 footballers, and, I guess, took a senior role from late 1988 until 6 May 2011, provided damning evidence against the former football club at the Tribunal.
Thomson writes:
“Why did this powerful but busy character introduce a scheme of wholesale – and now proven to be unlawful – avoidance of NI and income tax?
Why – so the club could gain advantage on the pitch, of course: sporting advantage. By attracting and keeping players they otherwise could not afford. How do we know?
Because the powerful but talkative “Mr Black” was good enough to spill the beans to the Tax Tribunal: “Mr Black did not consider the Trust as a means of tax avoidance, but rather as a means of retaining and rewarding loyal employees. So far as Rangers was concerned it enabled the Club to attract players who would not otherwise have been obtainable.”
Sporting advantage.”
““Mr Black” didn’t see it as a tax wheeze at all, he said, but a football wheeze. Sadly for him if you’re now found to have been cheating the taxman you’re also cheating football – so now his unfortunate admission is a smoking gun
There is more: “As for Mr Black, he denied that the scheme was for tax avoidance in cross-examination, though he went on to describe the scheme as ‘a method of us acquiring, especially football wise, better players in a more cost effective manner than we would be able to do so’; that the club had been ‘very ambitious at that time’; and ‘it was seen as a correct and proper way for us to proceed’; that Rangers ‘have been very successful, because we’ve been able to attract players of a certain standard that, perhaps, we may not have been able to otherwise’.”
One more time: “especially football wise better players in a more cost effective manner”. Sporting. Advantage.”
“It is time Campbell Ogilvie explained his conduct – the man who played a part in the tax avoidance and personally benefited before going on to be SFA President.
It is time Sir David Murray – the conductor of this disastrous orchestration, by overseeing EBTs at Rangers – is similarly held to account for what he did and now, why Rangers did it for advantage on the field: cheating.
Above all, it is time the SPFL members came out from Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee, Aberdeen and beyond to denounce cheating as cheating and take action as fans from Kelso to Thurso are begging them to do.
All the titles and silverware from all the years Rangers cheated at football, as they cheated at tax, must be null and void and wiped from the record.
Let nobody try and tell me it isn’t the same club – I have always said it is and now Rangers have to take the consequence of that reality right on the chin.
Turnbull Hutton RIP – how your godforsaken Scottish game needs you now.”
‘Mr Black’ really has dropped Sir David Murray in it. I hope he stays away from Charlotte Square. This situation reminds me of that scene from Blazing Saddles, where the sheriff turns his gun on himself. Alerts in advance for the use of racial pejoratives, appropriate for the environment, in this clip:
500 Comments- Pages:
- «
- 1
- ...
- 6
- 7
- 8
- 9
- 10
- 11
- 12
- 13
- 14
- »
Delaneys Dunky
Fecking great Idea mate, everyone makes a banner and displays it. Let’s the suits know this is a concern to all not just the few
can you imagine the furore if the shoe was on the other foot.
Martin O Neil. Chris Sutton. Paul Lambert.
You took our money. We’re well rewarded for your celtic experience.
You were carried to success by the greatest ever Swede and a passionate support and failed in the champions league each year and domestically when your talisman had gone.
Now your utterances convey utter contempt for a support who paid your way.
Goooood evening CQN :-)
Andyr53 – sure that Doc Bhoy is from Bannockburn, wouldn’t want him leading a fight, with the Balde napper mind :-)
Right Ya Auld Rebel Melbourne Mick and Paddymacoz
Here goes
Boruc
Mcgrain, Stanton, McNeill, Gemmell
Johnstone, McStay, Murdoch, Lennox
Larsson & McBride
Subs – Burns, Auld & Dalglish,
Will have a second go on Fri, as away soon south for next few days
Neganon2
I have no doubt that you are genuinely saddened by what you see as Celtic`s failure to do or say anything on this mater but this bit does not make any sense to me …..”The Huns demise will destroy Celtic. And why? Because those who run Celtic care more about money than morals, ” . Surely, being destroyed is not going to make Celtic any money???
JJ
Just wondering how many punters wandered back down to the bookies a few years back and handed back their winnings on horses from the Godolphin Stable after the doping scandal at the said stables became public knowledge
NEGANON2 on 10TH NOVEMBER 2015 9:48 PM
Why should Celtic give statements to our enemies in the Press?
Speak softly and carry a big stick.
Neganon2
I fear you are right this is a watershed and the pitfalls for our club are very real. We need to be wary and fly and I’m sure that you will agree that PL possess these attributes.
As for Celtic releasing a condemnation statement. Did you not expect it, they had little choice. Surely you can see that.
But the theme of your post cannot be discounted.
HH.
See folk are sending in their XIs. Is it the best or what.
My best would be:
Simpson
McGrain McNeill Connelly @ Gemmell
Murdoch @ Auld
Johnstone Dalglish McBride @ Larsson
Subs: McStay, Gallagher @ Burns.
Any Celtic supporter who does not believe that rescinding 21 trophies that Rangers won illegitimately during the EBT Minty years will benefit Celtic in the annals of history or take another step in obliterating hunnery from Scottish culture is either an Old Firm supporter (and current custodian kiss ass) or a fool. It needs to be documented that they cheated. This will focus attention on their bigger cheating schemes in their ~140 year history not just the ones that spilled over into cheating the government which lead to them being caught. It is so unfortunate that our current custodians are nothing more than repugnant Walfrid parasites.
NA2
I must admit you have passion, but would you not be better directing your obvious neg against the real culprits, the sfa.
I know fine well that the suits are in it for the money, they are a plc, so that’s a given, but the real reason we are in the mess we are is the sfa. and by mess I mean scottish football.
Celtic have paid their dues, we haven’t cheated anyone, we may well have been in a better position had the great mostachioed one embarked on a different path, but he didn’t.
You never know, maybes he does have a plan, now if I was DD I would have a plan, a plan that didn’t involve just reviving the OF, tho the OF will be a major part of any plan imo, but an out, it’s what he dreams of, and this imo, is the smoking gun that he craves, he will never have a better chance of an out.
Now if they concede to the sfa and do feck all about the cheating and corruption, you will joined by many many more.
Direct your anger at the real problem mi amigo.
HH
Left ooot Rieper, Elliot, Boyd, Lennon, numerous Lions,
McAvennie, was phenomenal for us for 2 seasons
Johnie Doyle, loved the Bhoy
Lubo, best 2 footed player I’ve seen
Naka, best dead ball taker I’ve seen
Will need a re-think on that team ya pair of Aussie Wallopers, you’ve got me thinking :-))
I’m sure that post has been kept in draft for awhile now desperate for an airing. My only surprise is that we got less that 10 racism’s.
BDO have until Dec 2nd (I think) to make an appeal. Why should the SFA / Celtic or anyone else show their hand until due process has played out…This is not going to go away, despite what the SMSM try, but don’t let that stop you beating Celtic up about it….
TTR
If it was the GB only who had a banner, they would be pilloried by the smsm. The impact of a Celtic Park full of banners would be better.
Eddie
If you need a white sheet? Am yer man! :)
mickbhoy1888,
what have the bookies got to do with it,
the important point is that horses that run with illegal substances
in their system are disqualified with prize money re distributed to those that
are affected in each race
Parkheadcumsalford
That Auld Melbourne Bhoy, is running a wee competition to win a t-shirt, if you can match his and paddymacoz’s best 11 plus 3 subs
Canny believe I forgot about the Sauchie Bhoy – George Connolly, should have been a superstar that bhoy
Nothing will or can happen until it is confirmed if they will appeal or not! nada!! If they confirm they are not appealing, and their recent communication suggests they want an end to this situ, then the gloves are off. Only then will we see celtic and other clubs go for the jugular.
In the meantime , Alex Thomson is a great ally and can blow the facts right in their faces via channel 4 news – this is the biggest sporting scandal ever in this country.
I hope Dmitri Kharine never had a EBT at celtic
stebhoy on 10th November 2015 10:11 pm
‘Alex Thomson is a great ally’
###
He’s adamant that they are the same club.
He’s no ally.
I think we are getting sucked into a few unwelcome narratives because the SMSM and the Sevco cheerleaders are dominating the platforms at the moment.
None of the following, as per usual, is original. All of this advice has been given already but we need reminders when we end up posing to ourselves a specious choice between the Continuity Myth being exposed and titles being stripped.
1) We need to wait out the appeal period. That is a natural part of human justice. We cannot be calling for sentencing until we see if there is an appeal or not. We might all think that an appeal is unlikely but this has been a difficult saga to predict and who knows which way reckless gamblers might jump.
2) Once the appeal period has elapsed with no appeal forthcoming, all clubs must act in concert, or together as however many clubs are willing to join us, in seeking for pre-existent SFA rules to be implemented.
3) Now that the EBT payments have been declared (and accepted) as illegal in the Highest (yet) Court (think of it as a 3rd round qualifying success having lost the 1st and 2nd round games but you were allowed to progress on appeal, rather than being 2:1 down via a set of equally plausible verdicts) we must ask for the registration rules to be revisited.
4) The line should be-
i) Rangers were guilty of illegal payments
ii) Rangers were guilty of improper player registration and providing insufficient and inaccurate information on player registration
iii) The rules are clear that each match in which such an illegally paid player played should result in a 3:0 defeat being recorded against each Rangers match ( we may have to face up to similar sanctions being applied to matches where Juninho played for us)
iv) League tables should be adjusted to reflect the revised finishing positions. If the original league winner has no longer won, then either declare the competition null and void- the asterisk option- or award it to the club in first place after revision.
v) Cup matches can be recorded as 3:0 too but no new winner can benefit as you do not know whether the team rangers beat in the final would have won if facing some team Rangers beat in earlier rounds. Cups are a definite for the asterisk treatment.
vii) Once all this has been achieved, and only then, should we look at the circumstances surrounding the panic of Feb. to July 2012 and an enquiry into the dealings of those involved in selling Rangers and those who drew up the 5 way agreement.
We need to keep these events separate. These are dominoes and one is unlikely to fall without the other first falling.
So, do not make title stripping the first call for action- make it a desire to see justice served on the club or clubs who operated illegal EBTs and application of pre-existing rules to that period.
Then we have the Truth and Reconciliation Enquiry.
STEBHOY
” Biggest sporting scandal?” not according to that clown Roger Mitchell.We are just after bragging rights and we should look at the big world.Crapiest endorsement of cheating I’ve heard in this debacle and that’s saying something.
DD
The GB would only get slaughtered if the banner was something explicit or political. I agree with Paul67 when he said we should keep calm and get our message across. Keep it sensible and on message and you don’t give them a stick to beat you with.
MacJay
Very wise words sir.
My Grandad Delaney often said phrases like that.
My favourite was, “Speak softly in company, and people will listen keenly. Shout in company, and the same people will cover their ears!”
Burnley78 9.57pm-
The only season I considered that Martin o’neill’s Celtic failed in the CL was in 02/03 when they failed to qualify for the group stages. A better Basel team than many realised at the time and they proved it in their subsequent CL campaign, qualifying out their group at Liverpool’s expense, but I still felt we should have beat them with the team we had then.
However-
01/02 – qualification at the expense of an Ajax side containing ibrahimovic, van der vaart, mido, Arvrladze, etc. 9 points out of a group containing seasoned CL stalwarts at that time, Juventus, Rosenborg and Porto.
03/04 – 7 points in a group containing anderlecht, Lyon and bayern Munich.
04/05 – onto plums in a group containing that season’s beaten finalists, AC Milan, the following season’ s winners, Barcelona, and big spenders shakhtar Donetsk. We did manage a point in the camp nou, no mean feat.
Those players and that manager delivered far more success than failure in the CL especially in the context of our previous exploits in that competition ( one year of failed qualification, otherwise nowhere to be seen).
This season and last season we have seen what true failure in the CL looks like.
By all means criticise O’Neill, lambert and Sutton’s risible comments on the Huns cheating, I agree wholeheartedly with you on that.
But let’s not present a revisionist sense of history. Those guys helped establish us on the CL stage and if they’re deemed as failures at CL level then god only knows what that makes the current side.
Ernie
Alex Thomson is Adam Ant?
Well that’s charming and no mistake.
setting free the bears for Res. 12 & Oscar Knox on 10th November 2015 10:15 pm – See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/tommo-fraudulent-silverware-must-go-blazing-saddles-comes-to-scottish-football/comment-page-9/#comments
Great post as always – from the other night I failed to respond to your post – the one about you could not manage Celtic – I liked it – but you missed my point any average manager could win the league
Anyway moving on from that – Moyes is an option
67ECW
Gordybhoy
well I imagine if it was CQN punter who benefitted from a horse that won, after its performance had been enhanced through a banned substance, would be so morally repulsed he would be running straight back down to the bookies to hand back his winnings in order that it could be redistributed to the punters who had been cheated out of their stake
I would have loved to hear Paul McBrides thoughts on this fiasco. He would not have missed them.
RIP
My friends. You do realise do you not that our betrayal is at hand?
As CQNs Cassandra I am doomed to tell you and for you to not listen. I accept my fate but I also accept my role to tell you (and for you to not listen). You have bee utterly betrayed by those who run Celtic. Utterly, completely, deeply and they want your soul as well as your money.
You have a choice. But it’s a horrible choice. You can act now or you can pretend it’s not happening and die a thousand thousand small deaths.
It is your choice. You have to make it individually. They have destroyed our capacity for collective process. You see they knew it was coming. Paul knew it was coming. So they destroyed us as a support. Systematically and comprehensively. Didn’t you wonder what was going on? Didn’t you wonder at Celtics obscene desire to attack it’s support at every turn?
So here we are.
Jungle Jim the board believe in the old firm. That it’s good for business and that they can delude you enough and feed you on the morphine of sectarianism you will blindly pay up for the privilege. They don’t care that, over the next decade that the support for Celtic will die. They can’t see it. They only see their own importance. They are arrogant like the Hun.
Macjay1 your enemies are much closer to home. And they have been carrying a big stick to the support for years. Wake up my friend. Wake up.
Green pinta I wholly agree. pl is fly and clever. But he is using it against our cause not for it. All Celtic need to do is speak out and the house of cards will fall. It will unite us, unite the other clubs and create a schism that cannot be healed without the integrity of the right answer.
But my friend. It won’t happen.
TET the rail culprits? Why they are much closer to home than you think. Is Scottish football goes through a real constitutional crisis then my view is that structural change to leagues is more not less likely. But DD and co are already up to their necks in this corruption. They cannot afford to let the truth come out.
This is your and my watershed. Recognise it for what it is. Don’t turn your face away. Decide what you are going to do when they bury this. Tell Celtic what you will do ( as many are). I cannot guarantee it will change anything. But if nothing changes Celtic are dead.
Face up to it and breathe the free air.
I would love nothing more than all of the above SFTB, but I feel the reason people are pushing for title stripping is because it is the best we can expect.
We call them the ‘establishment club’ because we’ve lived amongst this ‘establishment’ for decades, and as much as I’d love Murray and ogilvies head on a stake outside Celtic Park, we’ll always be the late comers to the party to these cockaroaches(tony Montana impersonation)
The Media want us to stop going to see the hoops what we need is 50000 for the Killie Game all with banners Talking about Killie has no one From the media asked there chairman yet what he thinks
TTR
The late Paul McConville’s words are also missed.
P&P RIP
SFTB
I like your positivity. Of course you are correct. However, you know better than most, how conscientious the SFA are at implementing their own rules. Nothing you predict will ever happen unless the SFA are dismantled. Which brings us back to doh.
McBride pushed for The Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Act 2012….ya nutters!
The Glorious Balance Sheet
I would say MONs performce in CL was nowhere near as successful as Strachan and Lennons. Each of these had only 4 years at CP helm yet managed to qualify 3 times for last 16 between them with much more meagre resources.
These 3 qualifications were also from pot 3 or 4 start points. They were also with squads funded from within our budget and not outwith our means. And without the talisman swede.
We can agree to differ though.
M McGill
When I think of the SFA, I think Orange Juice.
Rip it up and start again!
Been on the ‘Lilian Gish’ and just finished the obligatory ‘fish supper’ (the chips were naff) and just catching up.
Why the angst about Wilson/Miller? The more airtime they give these ‘Richards’ on the BBC the better – let them spiel their ‘Transatlantic Flight’ – it keeps it in the public eye!
Let them roll out; every Tom, Dick & Billy – it helps keep it front-page – it contrives to throw-up unanswered questions – it weakens the ‘no stripping’ argument.
Blog/post/comment/phone-ins – it keeps the pot stirring!